New SW Ring Road prosposals posted

[kenny]

Five new Southwest Ring Road routes were posted on Alberta Transportation's website. None of them cross through Tsuu Tina land.

The fearless purple leader does not like any of them and prefers to negotiate with Tsuu Tina because he has a good relationship with them. Riiiiight. So they can waste another 20 years.

I hope they go for Route #4, lowest cost and less impact to neighboring communities.

See for yourself here:

http://www.transportation.alberta.ca/Content/docType490/Production/CSWRR/Communities_workshop_1.pdf

[88CRX]

All I gather from that is that we're royally fucked with any option LOL.

[in*10*se]

fuck the environment, route 4 it is.

still say we just take the land back from the indians?


ugh. problem solved.

[Idratherbsidewayz]

Originally posted by kenny
Five new Southwest Ring Road routes were posted on Alberta Transportation's website. None of them cross through Tsuu Tina land.

The fearless purple leader does not like any of them and prefers to negotiate with Tsuu Tina because he has a good relationship with them. Riiiiight. So they can waste another 20 years.

I hope they go for Route #4, lowest cost and less impact to neighboring communities.

See for yourself here:

http://www.transportation.alberta.ca/Content/docType490/Production/CSWRR/Communities_workshop_1.pdf

None of them make sense except for route 4. It's what has been discussed for YEARS. No idea why they bothered paying someone to tell them what they already know.

Negotiating with natives... :facepalm:

Clearly if the band held out on the last deal, they won't be dealing anytime soon. This is their last bargaining chip before the city can tell them to go fuck themselves.

[88CRX]

A freeway along McLeod Trail was considered as an option..... really? LOL

[Disoblige]

Originally posted by kenny

The fearless purple leader does not like any of them and prefers to negotiate with Tsuu Tina because he has a good relationship with them. Riiiiight. [/url]
I laughed when I saw that on the news this morning.

[Despair*]

Route 4 looks the best to me as well.

[clem24]

Originally posted by Idratherbsidewayz

No idea why they bothered paying someone to tell them what they already know.


What? Aren't they just presenting this for public consultation? :facepalm:

Route #4. I *do* really like the idea of freeway along McLeod. That would do wonders + makes the most sense in terms of usefulness, but too expensive and would just be congested as hell during rush hour, or maybe make express lanes to bypass that whole section.

I'd say fuck the reserve. No more talk. Make sure it becomes tough to access the casino, AND make it hard for them to get onto the road. How's that for karma. Or wait would it still be karma if the city intentionally fucks with them hahaha.

[Xtrema]

Why would #5 be more expensive than #4?

The amount of infrastructure you need to build for #4 is massive, including a bridge over the water.

This report is rigged.

[kenny]

Originally posted by Xtrema
Why would #5 be more expensive than #4?

This report is rigged.

Expansion of bridge over reservoir and land acquisition I imagine would be eating up the most $. Not entirely sure but I think the bridge being over our drinking water may result in higher costs than a standard bridge.

[dirtsniffer]

for #5 a rediculous ammount of upgrading would need to go into 14th street, it has brutal traffic already, every light would need to be removed, the road would need to be widened, the ramps to glenmore would need to be redone, and the bridge over the res would need to be widen substantially.

#4 is pretty much a straight rip all the way to a pretty big bridge they would have to build

[Artega]

Land acquisition can quickly escalate the cost of construction. Commercial properties along Macleod trail are MUCH much more expensive than a stretch of houses along 37 Street.

It saids if they need to use the glenmore causeway we may need up to 8 additional lanes over the causeway at that same location

So it's pretty obvious they've made it so 37 street is the only option. because it's the only option that doesn't go over the causeway

[Sugarphreak]

...

[Guillermo]

thanks for posting this kenny, i heard about it on the radio this morning and was curious what the routes were, but had totally forgotten to look it up! (not sure i would've been able to find it anyhow, LOL!)

from those options, route 4 is obviously the ONLY way to go! fuck tsu tina, putting it through there wouldn't really give any more access to the city, and it would cost a shit-ton. and as the city grows into the future, the weaslehead is only going to become an urban runoff area anyhow. :dunno:

[kenny]

I like the idea of this ring road to be east of the Tsuu Tina reserve and if/when we build the "outer" ring that one should go just west of the reserve bypassing it completely.

[g-m]

I'd vote for route 5.

[Masked Bandit]

This is just crazy. #4 is the only choice. I guess it wouldn't hurt to give the band one more sit down (one shot only, take it or leave it semi-lowball offer).

[hampstor]

Originally posted by Masked Bandit
This is just crazy. #4 is the only choice. I guess it wouldn't hurt to give the band one more sit down (one shot only, take it or leave it semi-lowball offer).

Yes, it would hurt to give them another sit down. We've wasted enough time on negotations and studies that have gotten us to here.

Why do we need this dragged out for another decade and cost how much more? I would like to see the SW portion of the ring road done before we all get around like the Jetson's did.

[btimbit]

I like #4 the most as well. I live RIGHT in that area in the far SW. 1, 2 and 3 don't help me at all. #5 is the route I go right now, and I suppose it would be nice to go that way without all the lights but it would still get bottlenecked as hell right on Glenmore there, not to mention pretty much completely rebuilding 14th street.

#4 is a perfect solution. Land acquisition shouldn't be too bad, it's mostly residential. That bridge would be the most expensive part, but probably a lot cheaper than the other options. Now can we just build the damn thing?

While we're at it, can we please block off the reserve completely? Those greedy jerks have made driving a living hell for far too long.

[asp integra]

#4 is the only one that makes sense other than running on to Indian land and building a road as quickly as possible

[black13]

I don't like any of those.

No reason to be stubborn about it, might as well sit down one more time with the Tsuna. They might have re-thought about it seeing that the city now has other options clearly laid out. We got a new mayor as well this time who seems better at negotiating than Dave was.

[M.alex]

I only support options 1, 2, or 3.

[btimbit]

Originally posted by black13
I don't like any of those.

No reason to be stubborn about it, might as well sit down one more time with the Tsuna. They might have re-thought about it seeing that the city now has other options clearly laid out. We got a new mayor as well this time who seems better at negotiating than Dave was.

They're the ones being stubborn. It's been how many decades since this started? The only thing they might have re-thought was how they can swindle us for more money. They had numerous chances, just bypass them and get the thing built already.

Every time negotiations start again, the whole thing gets delayed by a decade. Just get it done. This is something I'd use every day, no more faffing about.

[ZenOps]

All of the options are inferior temporary and waste of time stopgaps to where the road should be.

I blame Rob Anders for destroying the growth potential of the west side of Calgary (and I mean that truely, not like when I blame Rob Anders for man not landing on the moon.)

You screw with friendly relations, you get burned. They probably won't sell at any price now.

I knew he was good at sabotaging race relations, but damn, sabotage a quadrant of the city in the process? Rob you weenie.

Nenshi? If he could prove he can eat some pemmican - maybe. I can't stand that stuff.

[Idratherbsidewayz]

Originally posted by clem24


What? Aren't they just presenting this for public consultation? :facepalm:

Dude, Route 4 down to a T has been talked about for pretty much all 24 years of my life. Maybe it wasn't known to the people in the North but fuck them who cares. It is most important for those in the south bottlenecked by shitty 14th/Glenmore. They need to stop pussyfooting, kick the people out that need to be kicked out (for the greater good/10 mins to get out of the city for me), and build this motherfucker.

black13, they have been trying for almost (or maybe more than) 50 years to get this thing through. It's the natives last play, and they won't get rid of it. Fuck them, build it right beside, and don't let them connect to it.

[01RedDX]

.

[btimbit]

Originally posted by Idratherbsidewayz


Dude, Route 4 down to a T has been talked about for pretty much all 24 years of my life. Maybe it wasn't known to the people in the North but fuck them who cares. It is most important for those in the south bottlenecked by shitty 14th/Glenmore. They need to stop pussyfooting, kick the people out that need to be kicked out (for the greater good/10 mins to get out of the city for me), and build this motherfucker.

black13, they have been trying for almost (or maybe more than) 50 years to get this thing through. It's the natives last play, and they won't get rid of it. Fuck them, build it right beside, and don't let them connect to it.

Very well said.

I would use this road almost every day, they should stop teasing us with this crap and just build the damn thing already.

Block off access to the reserve too. Make them go around Bragg Creek to get into Calgary. Then they get to see what it's like to have to go the long way around when a possible much easier way is attainable.

[DayGlow]

Originally posted by black13
I don't like any of those.

No reason to be stubborn about it, might as well sit down one more time with the Tsuna. They might have re-thought about it seeing that the city now has other options clearly laid out. We got a new mayor as well this time who seems better at negotiating than Dave was.

So $250 million and over double the land they were going to give up for the road wasn't a fair deal?

Its getting to the point that the cost of an elevated highway will be more cost effective than what will be needed to pay off the First Nation.

[CapnCrunch]

Less talking, more building.

#4 is the only one that makes any sense whatsoever.

[GoChris]

Originally posted by DayGlow


So $250 million and over double the land they were going to give up for the road wasn't a fair deal?

Its getting to the point that the cost of an elevated highway will be more cost effective than what will be needed to pay off the First Nation.

There was no guarantee on the land, can't blame them for not taking the deal.

#4 is the best one, but I think it sucks. Building over the reservoir and fish creek is a shitty plan.

Hopefully a deal can be made this time.

[ercchry]

Originally posted by M.alex
I only support options 1, 2, or 3.

you could always sell lemonade off your driveway if they do route 4 though :rofl:

[01RedDX]

.

[7thgenvic]

Do all these plans cut off access to the Indian casino? What's the proposal with that. I live in the S.W and have never tried to access the Casino there. What's the deal with that?

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by 7thgenvic
Do all these plans cut off access to the Indian casino? What's the proposal with that. I live in the S.W and have never tried to access the Casino there. What's the deal with that?

Not likely but I think it's already pretty hard to get in there right now.

I also like #4. I just don't like the report, lacks objectivity. Just someone trying to push an agenda and throw up 4 turds for an illusion of options.

Talk with the tribe is over. It's time to isolate them and move on. Just build around them. Last I checked, we still got tons of land surrounding Calgary.

[Tomaz]

#4, or hostile takeover of native land.

Just build the fucking thing already. Jesus Christ Calgary.

[Khyron]

Originally posted by GoChris


There was no guarantee on the land, can't blame them for not taking the deal.

#4 is the best one, but I think it sucks. Building over the reservoir and fish creek is a shitty plan.

Hopefully a deal can be made this time.

90% was guaranteed, 10% the prov said they weren't sure which section it would be.

The chief and band leaders were on board. They wanted to sell. But some locals got spooked/stirred up and voted against it.

I think if they did the same deal, explained it properly and did a bit of lobbying, we'd get it.

[Kennyredline]

Originally posted by Masked Bandit
This is just crazy. #4 is the only choice. I guess it wouldn't hurt to give the band one more sit down (one shot only, take it or leave it semi-lowball offer).
I'm more for doing whatever road skirts the eastern edge of the reserve, and planting some trees and shrubs that depict a giant middle finger pointing at the reserve.

[GoChris]

Originally posted by 01RedDX


Fuck their land. It's less than 2000 people living in squalor on land the size of Calgary. Just the money alone that was being offered was outrageous. Giving up a bit of land they don't need for a pile of money they don't deserve was more than enough. I agree with never negotiating with them again and cutting off all access.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they should get more land, I'm just saying from their side they think the are entitled to get the land replaced and it wasn't totally guaranteed. I say we just take it if we could.


Originally posted by Khyron


90% was guaranteed, 10% the prov said they weren't sure which section it would be.

The chief and band leaders were on board. They wanted to sell. But some locals got spooked/stirred up and voted against it.

I think if they did the same deal, explained it properly and did a bit of lobbying, we'd get it.

Thanks for the clarification.

[DayGlow]

Originally posted by Khyron


90% was guaranteed, 10% the prov said they weren't sure which section it would be.

The chief and band leaders were on board. They wanted to sell. But some locals got spooked/stirred up and voted against it.

I think if they did the same deal, explained it properly and did a bit of lobbying, we'd get it.

They didn't get spooked, they wanted more. The talk I hear is that a lot of the band members thought they could take the province for a billion if they held out. They wanted to play high stakes poker and lost on their bluff. I don't think we should go back to them. Combine the money that they were going to get and the price of the land they were going to get and 37 Street will be a bargin to rebuild.

[ExtremeSi]

While it looks like number 4 would be the most convenient for traffic, I would hate to have a bridge over the resevoir there. There's a lot of nice pathways and forest in that area that actually makes you feel like you've left the city. It's a very peaceful area that will become extremely loud with the addition of a traffic bridge. Call me a tree-hugger if you want, but I like my nature.

[88CRX]

Originally posted by ExtremeSi
While it looks like number 4 would be the most convenient for traffic, I would hate to have a bridge over the resevoir there. There's a lot of nice pathways and forest in that area that actually makes you feel like you've left the city. It's a very peaceful area that will become extremely loud with the addition of a traffic bridge. Call me a tree-hugger if you want, but I like my nature.

Go to Fish Creek park, or Canmore, or Banff or, or, or :dunno:

What about the pollution of idling cars sitting on the existing routes every single day....

;)

[cycosis]

Number 4 makes sense. none of the options going down 14th work because people forget the extensive gas lines underground and then its a dead end right after Anderson. You can't make macleod into a freeway, its just not going to happen. Go tunnel.

Also, from what Ive heard, people in communities that sit next to the proposed area have had decreased property tax for years because the original buyers/builders new that land was set aside for expansion down the road.

[Tomaz]

I agree that there would be a large impact on Fish Creek, but there are ways of integrating nature into infrastructure. The bridge that would be used would be using a storm system so that pollutants would not contaminate the water, and rebuilding the park wouldn't be the hardest thing to do.

It really is the easiest, and more beneficial way to complete the ring-road project.

[89coupe]

Invade & Conquer the Tsuu T'ina Nation & build the fucking road where it was meant to go in the first place.

Sacred land, what a crock of shit.

[speedog]

Lots of debate about this on QR77 yesterday afternoon - I say down 37th Street and soon - it is doable and yes, there will be homes lost, but homes were lost when Crowchild was expanded/improved both north and south of the Bow River, homes and businesses were lost when 16th Avenue was expanded and homes were lost when the Glenmore big dig happened between 14th Street and Macleod Trail. Cities will always be evolving when it comes to traffic solutions and just a few quick crude mock-ups below show that the ring road can indeed go down 37th Street - the only problem would probably be some reduced speed limits (80kph?) to make the corner at Glenmore/37th Street...

http://www.telusplanet.net/public/slugs/sw-1.jpg
http://www.telusplanet.net/public/slugs/sw-2.jpg
http://www.telusplanet.net/public/slugs/sw-3.jpg
http://www.telusplanet.net/public/slugs/sw-4.jpg

[speedog]

Please note that I used a six lane section of Crowchild Trail through Hillhurst to show that six lanes can easily be accommodated down 37th Street.

[Guillermo]

http://www.telusplanet.net/public/slugs/sw-2.jpg

LOL, why would they bend the road around a river that is eventually just going to change course anyway? :rofl: you don't have to be a geomorphologist to know this - just look at the picture! :rofl:

[speedog]

Engineers can control a river's course and the Weaselhead NIMBY's have to placated a bit, no?

[Guillermo]

so, you propose bending the highway (at added expense) AND engineering the river in a "natural" park area, just to avoid building the road straight? LOL

[speedog]

Hoo boy, someone's got a hate-on happening.

[Guillermo]

just sayin'

(and i'm just giving you crap, don't worry about it ;) )

[speedog]

No problem - I just showed the curves at the Elbow river because sometimes using the lay of the land (moving a bit of earth) is cheaper than a long straight bridge. Never the less - a 6 lane expressway is quite doable along 37th Street and whther or not access is left to the casino doesn't really affect me although pesonally I'd leave no access to the reserve north on Anderson. Leaving no access would make the whole scenario a bit chepaer to build though.

As for people crabbing about he impact on the Weaselhead - there's seems to lots of wilderness left where SToney crosses over the Bow river and the naysayer's who spout off doom and gloom about possible spills from a brdige over the Elbow - how many times has there been a toxic spill into Glenmore Reservoir from Glenmore Trail. None that I can remember from my 32 years of living here and if it's that big of a deal, then just make it a non-hazardous route - in reality, I don't see that many transport trucks taking the southwest ringroad, the east side is where they'll be.

[thager]

Originally posted by Kennyredline

I'm more for doing whatever road skirts the eastern edge of the reserve, and planting some trees and shrubs that depict a giant middle finger pointing at the reserve. planting some trees and shrubs that depict a giant middle finger pointing at the reserve.

i love it , fuck them