CA Student

[JBreaks]

Wondering if anyone has information on the compensation package that can be expected while doing CA articling?

What are the tests like?

Is it truly worth it in the end?

I'm considering going that route, but I'm not sure if I can handle taking a pay cut + longer hours to make it happen, pending that the rumors are true about what to expect.

[in*10*se]

1st yr 45k
2nd yr 55k
3rd yr 65k
4th yr 75k

you are required to do 3 yrs of articling
you do 6 modules for 8 weeks a piece, write a 1 hr MC exam and a 4 hr case at the end of every module.
you write a 3 day exam after all your modules 5 hr case, 4 hr case, 4 hr case

articling sucks balls, but well worth the higher earning potential.

[JBreaks]

Do these values include health, dental, vision, vacation, flex days ect?

[in*10*se]

assume basic med/dent/ 2yr vision (depends on which coverage you look for)

standard 3 week vacation. don't think there are flex days. be prepared to work 40-50 hrs regular work week, 50-60 during busy season. no paid OT (with the exception of kpmg) don't expect a bonus unless you're a top performer, 0-10% even then, you're lucky for a bonus.

oh and while you are working these hours, you need to do at least 20 hrs of module (casb/school) work and hand in assignments a week.

fun stuff.

[tenth]

Wouldn't say at least 20 hours of CASB a week. Many people crush them entirely out on a Friday night. Should be anywhere from 4-15 a week for most people.

Whether it's worth it is a hard decision. Going through it, at times, I certainly didn't feel it was. Looking back, the unbelievable stress and working conditions were worth it for the end result. Short term pain for long term gain. Although I wouldn't recommend it to everyone. Lots of book smart people out there that have trouble with real-world problems, or don't have the work ethic to survive.

[Myrrinda]

Finished mod 5 in the fall and getting ready to write the UFE this year. Right now I don't know if it was worth it. I'm still articling, so until I get out into industry, I can't be sure. The best part about articling is that everyone else hates their life too, so you have people that sympathize with you.

And yes, there are some people that can do their assignments on a Friday night after spending only a couple hours on them, but I usually started Monday and handed in Thursday so that I could get revisions back early. The less time you put into the on the first submission, the more time you have to put in for revisions, and those are due the weekend after your first submission. You get 2 revisions to get it right or you fail the task. You can fail a few tasks though, and still pass the module. You just won't have a decent study guide for that particular task when you study for the exam. One bad part about casb is that they don't give you the right answers.

Busy season is evil. You get paid very little to work way too much, but it only lasts a few months, and summers are usually slow(er).

Also, just an FYI that they've changed the exams starting in 2011. You no longer have a 1 hour MCQ with a 4 hour case. Instead, the exams are only 4 hours long, and some have mcq and 2 or 3 smaller cases. Mod 4 now only have 1 long case with no multiple choice. It's now up to you to determine how much time you require for the multiple choice and the cases. They're trying to make the testing more in line with the UFE.

Overall, pay isn't great, hours aren't great, work (especially audit) is awful, but you learn a lot and you build a strong group of friends that you go through it with, and when you come out of it, you usually get into a good job in industry.

[l/l/rX]

Originally posted by in*10*se

oh and while you are working these hours, you need to do at least 20 hrs of module (casb/school) work and hand in assignments a week.

fun stuff.

You get a break from CASB when its busy season. Jan-May? Start up again in Aug do you not?

[Myrrinda]

Originally posted by l/l/rX


You get a break from CASB when its busy season. Jan-May? Start up again in Aug do you not?

You have the option to take mod 4 during busy season if you want, though you have to get approval from managers and HR usually. It's generally discouraged just because of the workload. But a lot of people at my firm do it, and most of them pass, so it can be done. I personally can't imagine it.

Edit: Most modules start up in May.
May-July
Aug-Oct
Oct-Dec
Mod 4 only: Feb-April

[ramminghard]

Originally posted by l/l/rX


You get a break from CASB when its busy season. Jan-May? Start up again in Aug do you not?

Mod 4 is offered through busy season but that is the only one. All other modules start the beginning of May or August.

[BrknFngrs]

Originally posted by in*10*se
assume basic med/dent/ 2yr vision (depends on which coverage you look for)

standard 3 week vacation. don't think there are flex days. be prepared to work 40-50 hrs regular work week, 50-60 during busy season. no paid OT (with the exception of kpmg) don't expect a bonus unless you're a top performer, 0-10% even then, you're lucky for a bonus.

oh and while you are working these hours, you need to do at least 20 hrs of module (casb/school) work and hand in assignments a week.

fun stuff.

Agreed on most comments above except for the following:
- health/dental/vision appears to vary a bit firm by firm as ours is completely flexible (ie: we buy any coverage we want from a health spending account)
- OT is definitely firm specific though the above is right in that the number of firms paying it is quite low
- in regards to bonuses, this is again likely firm specific. The firm that I work for has paid them out every year but they do work out to only a few % and are heavily influenced by performance.
- 20/week is definitely the high side of the estimate I would say; for myself and my friends I would say that 8-15/week is more common.


Originally posted by l/l/rX


You get a break from CASB when its busy season. Jan-May? Start up again in Aug do you not?

Generally yes, but it depends on the individuals choice of when they do each module; specifically if they push to complete the courses in one year or if they fail a module and have to retake one during busy season to stay on track for the UFE that year.

[l/l/rX]

Well regardless, my hats off to you future CA guys and gals, I have a thread here I bump every year to congratulate the ones who pass. Living with my sister during that time was like her having PMS 24/7. hahaha

I hope she gets happier once she branches off into the industry and works normal 8 hour days. She has 1 year left on her contract with pwc, cuz she transferred to Aus.

[in*10*se]

^ sounds like Ja.... ;)

[JBreaks]

Well I dunno guys. Right now I'm working in oil n gas and although its stressful at times, 38 hrs a week is pretty much the norm and I enjoy the time to do other things quite a bit.... To take a significant pay cut in order to get into this stream doesn't sound to appealing after the above testimony... How good of a pay off are we talking once its all said and done?

[tenth]

Very good. ~80-110k in base salary as a new CA.

For all CA's in AB in 2009, mean was $214k and median was $144k. The pay of C-level positions skew the mean quite a bit.

http://cica.ems01.com/mbc/msc-2009-alberta.pdf

[in*10*se]

Originally posted by JBreaks
Well I dunno guys. Right now I'm working in oil n gas and although its stressful at times, 38 hrs a week is pretty much the norm and I enjoy the time to do other things quite a bit.... To take a significant pay cut in order to get into this stream doesn't sound to appealing after the above testimony... How good of a pay off are we talking once its all said and done?

if you're content with life, dont' do it. you need to be motivated.

say bye bye to 3 yrs of your social life.

mind you you meet great people, form bonds, relationships, networks etc etc blah.

[l/l/rX]

Originally posted by in*10*se
^ sounds like Ja.... ;)

bahahaha you know my sister huh?

[JBreaks]

Originally posted by in*10*se


if you're content with life, dont' do it. you need to be motivated.

say bye bye to 3 yrs of your social life.

mind you you meet great people, form bonds, relationships, networks etc etc blah.

This "content" feeling is exactly my problem with my current situation.. My current career stream tops out at about $120k/yr after about 10 years exp. Currently I feel terribly under utilized, despite the fact that I have excelled at times when given the opportunity to go above what was expected.. Its just that time of life I guess.. Been graduated with B.Comm since June 2010. Worked since the day after grad ceremony. Havnt taken a flex day or vacation since. Dont feel like this type of effort is getting me anywhere fast.

[Myrrinda]

I get three weeks vacation every year and I've used most of it for study time. We are given 1 paid day off prior to the module exams, but some of the mods (3 and 4 especially) require more than a day, so I've taken a week to study.

This year all of my vacation is going straight to UFE study leave.

I've still taken vacation. It's just been mostly unpaid.

You have a few months to think about it anyway. CA firms hire in Sept for the following year. For instance, I signed my contract Nov 1, 2007 and started Sept 2008. So the earliest you would likely start working is a year from now, as they'll be hiring for Jan and Sept 2012 starting Sept 2011.

You can always do your CA in industry. You just get less support and you can't sign off on audits.

[arian_ma]

Are you implying that you would not be happy with $120k/yr as a cap salary? :nut:

[tenth]

$120k working 40 hour weeks would be awesome.

[in*10*se]

^its called job satisfaction. would you pick up dog shit out of outhouses for 120k a year for the rest of your life? probably not.

[tenth]

He's not exactly picking up dog shit is he?

[JBreaks]

Wouldnt say this is as bad as picking up dog shit... lol. But its more the fact thats I'll be stuck where I am for an extended period of time... Moral of the story I've contacted the guy who seemed willing to guide me towards CA.. I'm gonna see what he has to say about everything.

I'd much rather work like a slave now if I could see the huge kind of salaries listed on that salary survey, than spend the next 8-10 years of my life toiling unhappily to get into a comfortable position.

Ultimately I would hope to apply the CA to Oil & Gas, aim for management in finance or accounting areas.. CFO... ect. :poosie:

[tenth]

Ya, if you're aiming high then a CA is a good way to get there. As much as the process sucks, the experience is great. I've always referred to it as learning with a stick (learn it quick or get beat down).

Just, as everybody has said, make sure you take a step back and really make sure you want it. It's easy to look at big numbers and say that's what you want to do, it's completely different when you work 30+ days in a row, or have an 80+ hour billable week (both not common, but happen). A fair number of people decide they can't hack it and drop out.

[Myrrinda]

There's always the MPAcc program if you can afford to spend 4 months each summer in Saskatoon. If you can get a leave of absence from your job for 2 summers, you could do the MPAcc program, and then your 3rd summer would be mod 6 and the UFE. That way you wouldn't have to leave your current job. Depends on how your employer feels about giving you that much time off. Plus it's a much more costly route if you don't have family in Saskatoon and have to rent an apartment, plus take time off work, plus pay the course fees.

[2002e46]

drop out chimming in...it sucks, dont do it....enjoy life.