Bench vs Squat

[maxomilll]

I can bench press more then I can squat. Out of balance?

[dirtsniffer]

i'd say so, unless you bench in the 400 pound range

[max_boost]

Squat more.


:thumbsup:

[C_Dave45]

They're about the same with me. Mayyyyybe a bit more on the bench, 20 lbs or so.

[vengie]

I bench and squat almost identical weight, however I don't really push my squat as I have a bad knee thanks to my years of hockey. I just squat to keep my legs in shape.

[Toma]

That's not unusual.

I wouldn't worry about it. Squatting is kinda falling out of favour anyway.

By all means work your legs, but don't worry about how much you can squat.

[Hakkola]

Why is squatting falling out of favor?

[A790]

Originally posted by Hakkola
Why is squatting falling out of favor?
It's not. He's just talking out of his ass again.

[KRyn]

Originally posted by Toma
That's not unusual.

I wouldn't worry about it. Squatting is kinda falling out of favour anyway.

By all means work your legs, but don't worry about how much you can squat.


Haha you are funny. If you can't squat more than you can bench you are severely unbalanced. Squatting is one of the best compound exercises you can do.

[Toma]

Originally posted by Hakkola
Why is squatting falling out of favor?

High incidence of lower back injury, knee injury,
spinal compression etc. etc.

Leg press, front squats, sissy squats, one leg squats, magic circle etc are good alternatives.... once you squeeze out a disc... lol... life is painful, and it happens very often.

Some people can do them "right" and avoid injury. YMMV

I no longer recommend them for the "Casual lifter" in "heavy form".

Sets of 20 are ok, since they are a GREAT lung and cardio builder.

But if you can squat for 20 reps what you can bench 3 reps... you are doing very well.

[buh_buh]

I just f'd up my back pretty bad squatting just last friday, so funny Toma mentions this. My squat is pretty close to my bench, I've always thought my squat was pretty weak in comparison to my bench.

[swak]

What i lift in my squat and bench at the gym are pretty close, because i dont want to kill myself if i have no spotter, and i bench typically with dumbbells.
But my 1rep max is nowhere near that.

Id say you're pretty out of wack though if you can bench more than you squat. Unless you're going for the bar star look, then you're on the right track, bro.

[msommers]

My bench is getting closer to where I'm squatting, but I'm not increasing my squat at the same rate as my bench. I don't need huge legs and with over 15 years of soccer, they aren't little. My biggest fear is fucking up my knees though. But doing squats at a moderate level should keep everything strengthened up which seems to be helping a tad. I mean shit, for my PFPS study I was doing squats...they can't be all bad!

I need to start doing lungs too now that I think about it, ha.

[J-hop]

Toma actually has a good point. I squat less than I bench, but with bench I go for weight, squats I go for reps. With bench I go for a weight I can push between 5 and 10 reps per set. Squat I go for about 15 reps/set.

Sure its great to push a lot in the squat if that are your goals, but in my personal opinion I think bench is much safer to push your max on. In bench you can get away with pretty poor form and not hurt yourself, and even if you do you'll be able to function, even a torn rotator will heal and although you may not be back to a full 100% you'll still be able to enjoy sports etc again, and while your healing its not going to be completely debilitating and you'll still be able to function well.

Now on the flip side you can't get away with poor form at all in squats, and if you do get hurt its going to be something that will severely hinder your ability to function and enjoy life. IE: hurt your knee and your likely going to have knee problems the rest of your life that will effect you on a daily basis, same thing with your back. I hurt my back biking last year when I took a good bail and couldn't even sit in my desk at work for more than 20mins for almost a month, that scared me away from ever doing something that could hurt my back again.

If your goals are to push a lot of weight on the squat, that is fine, go for it. But if you hit the gym to get fit and increase your physical ability don't worry so much about pushing your squat just for the sake of a number.

[max_boost]

Bench has been by far my weakest link and I've put a lot of effort into increasing it over the past year.

I weigh around 155 +/- 5lbs.

A year ago my best was 115X5. Now I can do 150X3 and 160X1. It was more of an ego thing as every guy had a strong bench except me. :rofl:

The most difficult part for the heavy sets was un-racking the weight as I lift alone. Benching my own body weight isn't spectacular but it's respectable.

I'm still most happy about my 225X5 squat as it's better than most.

:D

[Toma]

I dunno.... got me curious.... so I found...

The world record bench, un assited is 715 pounds.
The world record squat, unassisted is ~975 pounds

So, a roughly 75% split for the record holders.

Soooo, a 160 bench may be balanced with a 215 squat
225 bench - 300 squat
315 bench - 420 squat....

What you guys think? Seem close? Pretty close for me....

[89coupe]

I'm basically even, maybe a little bit more with my legs.

Never was a fan of heavy squats though, I prefer my thighs not rubbing, thanks...LOL

Toma is right, why fuck with your knees and back.

Guys with big legs just look fat anyways...LOL

[[Yu]]

Originally posted by maxomilll
I can bench press more then I can squat. Out of balance?


Logically, yes you are out of balance.

Reality wise, I don't think so, since a lot of people neglect squats and focus on bench more. You work one more than the other, it would be assumed that would be stronger.

I'm still working for my bench to increase =(

Weight: 115 lbs
Bench for 5 reps @ 95 lbs
Squat for 5 reps @ 175 lbs

My ratio is terrible! haha

[buh_buh]

So what is a good standard as a % of bodyweight for bench and squat? I have no idea where I heard this, but I remember hearing somewhere that 1.5x your bodyweight is a pretty good goal for your average joe athlete for bench, probably more for squat. Not sure if thats 1RM or if its a full set of 10. I've never even tried a 1RM, I'm scared I'm even going to drop the barbell on my neck on bench doing a set of 10.

[Toma]

Originally posted by buh_buh
So what is a good standard as a % of bodyweight for bench and squat? I have no idea where I heard this, but I remember hearing somewhere that 1.5x your bodyweight is a pretty good goal for your average joe athlete for bench, probably more for squat. Not sure if thats 1RM or if its a full set of 10. I've never even tried a 1RM, I'm scared I'm even going to drop the barbell on my neck on bench doing a set of 10.

Here is a series of charts I found last night digging around for realistic weights that I think non non steroid guys can attain. Dunno how legit it is, but there is even a rep to 1rm calculator....

http://www.exrx.net/Testing/WeightLifting/StrengthStandards.htm

[max_boost]

Originally posted by buh_buh
So what is a good standard as a % of bodyweight for bench and squat? I have no idea where I heard this, but I remember hearing somewhere that 1.5x your bodyweight is a pretty good goal for your average joe athlete for bench, probably more for squat. Not sure if thats 1RM or if its a full set of 10. I've never even tried a 1RM, I'm scared I'm even going to drop the barbell on my neck on bench doing a set of 10.

Toma's link from exrx.net is a good one.

1.5X body weight for bench is crazy. No way in hell can I ever bench 225 even for 1 rep lol

The one I hear/read often is 1.5X body weigh for squat.

Here's a formula to calculate 1 rep max from Jim Wendler.

Weight X rep X .0333 + weight.

So I squat 225X5.

225 X 5 X .0333 + 225 = 262.5

[joseph]

Benching 362 and weighing in the 190's is a bit much IMO:dunno:

[KRyn]

Damn I will be elite in bench, squat and dead within the next year or so! Ballllliiiiinnnnn:bigpimp:
To bad their elite totals will hardly enable me to qualify for nationals in the IPF.

[wintonyk]

I am completely off balance according to the exrx link.

Press - elite
Bench - Advanced
Squat - intermediate
Deadlift - Advanced
Clean - Intermediate

Cool to know where I can improve upon.

[Toma]

Originally posted by KRyn
Damn I will be elite in bench, squat and dead within the next year or so! Ballllliiiiinnnnn:bigpimp:
To bad their elite totals will hardly enable me to qualify for nationals in the IPF.

IPF?? I dunno, I was reading some shit about those suits they wear.

One guy had to abandon a 865 pound banch press when he could not LOWER the weight. It was too light for the suit. He stepped up to 900 something, and the lift went well.

An old guy that tried an older suite could not lower a 225 pound bench press without PULLING DOWN as hard as he could. Then he reported it took almost no effort to get it up....it basically "sprang up".

[J-hop]

Originally posted by max_boost


The most difficult part for the heavy sets was un-racking the weight as I lift alone. Benching my own body weight isn't spectacular but it's respectable.



you'll probably be able to relate to this because you work out at the U-I don't know if you've run into this issue but the two benches that don't have weight mounts on them at the U are the only 2 I can use when alone. The other ones have the top rack about half an inch too high hahaha. I'd say I have pretty average length arms but I can't for the life of me get the bar off the top rack. I've tried racking it one step lower but I find it too awkward because its well below my full extension lol.

[dandia89]

Originally posted by J-hop


you'll probably be able to relate to this because you work out at the U-I don't know if you've run into this issue but the two benches that don't have weight mounts on them at the U are the only 2 I can use when alone. The other ones have the top rack about half an inch too high hahaha. I'd say I have pretty average length arms but I can't for the life of me get the bar off the top rack. I've tried racking it one step lower but I find it too awkward because its well below my full extension lol.

haha i love those racks, everyone i've worked out with really hates them but i think they are at the perfect position for unracking/racking.

[max_boost]

I am:

Press: Intermediate
Bench: Novice
Squat: Intermediate
Deadlift: Novice

I hate getting sick though. I've had this cold/infection thing for 3 weeks now and while I'm feeling better, I haven't touched any weights during this time. It'll be like starting all over again.
:banghead:

[Toma]

Originally posted by max_boost
I am:

Press: Intermediate
Bench: Novice
Squat: Intermediate
Deadlift: Novice

I hate getting sick though. I've had this cold/infection thing for 3 weeks now and while I'm feeling better, I haven't touched any weights during this time. It'll be like starting all over again.
:banghead:

I am almost elite across the board!

If I was 150 pounds ;)

[r1_boii]

on a good note, at least your doing squats and not just working upper body so you can fit in a small shirt and try to look buff at a night club

[liquidboi69]

Originally posted by Toma


IPF?? I dunno, I was reading some shit about those suits they wear.

One guy had to abandon a 865 pound banch press when he could not LOWER the weight. It was too light for the suit. He stepped up to 900 something, and the lift went well.

An old guy that tried an older suite could not lower a 225 pound bench press without PULLING DOWN as hard as he could. Then he reported it took almost no effort to get it up....it basically "sprang up".
I doubt this, since no one has ever benched that much in the ipf. also suits don't help you bench, bench shirts do.

[CapnCrunch]

My squat is about double my bench. My legs grow if I even look at them funny.

[mslbebiz]

LOL, the comments on squats being bad for you and "falling out of favor" are ridiculous. I honestly don't know where you guys come up with this BS.

Also, your bench should not be anywhere near your squat unless you have twigs for legs or are very weak and just starting to lift.

As for numbers to strive for, 300lb bench, 400lb squat, 500lb dead is pretty standard among the powerbuilding community as respectable intermediate numbers just about anyone should be able to achieve naturally.

[msommers]

As a 5'5 140lb guy, I will not be reaching those numbers. End of story ha.

My goals are bodyweight: 1.5x for bench, 2x for squat, ~2.25-2.5 for deads and 1x for shoulder press. ShPress will likely never reach there, my left shoulder just won't allow it.

[mslbebiz]

^ That makes sense. Those numbers are based off an average height of 5'9.

What happened to your shoulder? BY FAR the most common lifting injury/sprain is the rotator cuff, same thing happened to me from years of benching. A really strict powerlifting, elbows-tucked bench style definitely helps eliminate or prevent the problem though.

[msommers]

I've never deduced what exactly caused it but I can only imagine it's from years of sports and/or awkward catchs/pullups while rock climbing.

The biggest problem I'm finding now is doing wide pullups. It just doesn't happen anymore because the pain just shoots from shoulder down my arm - I almost fell off the bar last week haha. I now keep a much tighter distance between my hands but I feel it more in my forearms than my back as before. C'este la vie.

I do notice it while benching as well, especially now that I'm lifting heavier on bench than I have before. Do you have a diagram explaining your technique? Sounds quite useful.

[Toma]

^^^

I hurt my right shoulder a while back... kept working out lightly, went in for some Active Release Therapy at a chiro, and did a lot of external and internal rotation stretching, and fuck me, I can bench again.... this is after years of lingering injury.

Now, the pisser is, I was stronger 20 years ago than I am today.... grrrrr :guns: But I will catch up!

[Toma]

Originally posted by liquidboi69

I doubt this, since no one has ever benched that much in the ipf. also suits don't help you bench, bench shirts do.

I may have fucked up... I thought the bench SHIRT ;) was allowed in IPF, and the bench record was 1075 pounds wearing the shirt.

No shirt, 715.... pretty wicked difference.

It's amazing what those shirts can do.

[JfuckinC]

i can squat way more than i can bench :nut:

my chest is weak compared to my back and legs though... i reallllly need to work on it haha..

[buh_buh]

I'm gonna make a switch to front squats this week since my back is still bugging me a bit. I've never done it before, any tips?

[liquidboi69]

My tip is to keep your elbows up/as high as you can, to avoid getting bent forward (due to bar rolling down on you.) This will help if your back is giving you issues. Also, tight abs.

[msommers]

Originally posted by Toma
^^^

I hurt my right shoulder a while back... kept working out lightly, went in for some Active Release Therapy at a chiro, and did a lot of external and internal rotation stretching, and fuck me, I can bench again.... this is after years of lingering injury.

Now, the pisser is, I was stronger 20 years ago than I am today.... grrrrr :guns: But I will catch up!

Do you remember any of those stretches? I'll google that shit too.

[JfuckinC]

They're simple, you need those elastic bands for resistants. At the start of winter my right arm was useless, out of commission, after going to physio and getting acupuncture, massages, electro shock Dr. Ho's shit and the stretches i can lift whatever i want without pain!

The ones i did from this site are: 5,6,7,8,9&10 all with the blue resistants band. Just dont gotta do it too hard starting, do what's comfortable.


http://www.physioadvisor.com.au/8122150/shoulder-strengthening-exercises-shoulder-rehabi.htm

[mslbebiz]

I've never deduced what exactly caused it but I can only imagine it's from years of sports and/or awkward catchs/pullups while rock climbing. The biggest problem I'm finding now is doing wide pullups. It just doesn't happen anymore because the pain just shoots from shoulder down my arm - I almost fell off the bar last week haha. I now keep a much tighter distance between my hands but I feel it more in my forearms than my back as before. C'este la vie. I do notice it while benching as well, especially now that I'm lifting heavier on bench than I have before. Do you have a diagram explaining your technique? Sounds quite useful.

Ouch, yeah pull-ups definitely exacerbate a shoulder problem. So many guys with bench induced rotator cuff issues get insane pain from them.

For bench technique, I'd refer to elitefts.com - they have lots of good pics and info on lifting technique. Basically though make sure your shoulder blades are pinched, chest pushed out as far as possible, lats flared and when you bring the bar down you want your elbows tucked into your body, parallel to it, NOT flared out like you see bodybuilders doing. That's horribly wrong technique. Lastly, the bar should come down to your nipples or sternum, NOT higher.

Also, big bench tip: Super simple but so effective... push yourself away from the bar, don't push the bar away from you. This maintains solid shoulder integrity.

The thing is, proper technique turns this into a much more productive lift - IE you should be able to lift more weight, meaning better results.

ART can be very good for these types of issues, I've heard nothing but good things about it personally but have never had to use it.

For rotator cuff moves, DC is a huge proponent of towel rotations to cure about 90% of rotator cuff issues. They're easy and have definitely helped me. Here's how they work:

Grab a towel with both hands in front of your body, your hands near the each end of the towel. Then swing the towel up and over your head behind your back. Then swing it back to the front of your body. Repeat. Progress by bringing your hands inward on the towel as your rotator cuff strength and flexibility improve.

The issue and why so many guys (mos lifters really) get RC injuries from benching is because of poor BB style technique, and weak RC muscles. The towel rotations will strengthen them. There's a few other worthy exercises too.

But another reason for the injuries, and ongoing pain, is imbalance. So many guys focus too much on their chest and have a weak back. Your lats come into play A LOT when you're benching with proper technique for instance. I've found something as simple as a little extra back work on press days to make all the difference, like face pulls with a band or cables, or band pull-aparts. Just 2 sets of 15-20 reps there will do the trick. Give it a try.

[msommers]

Will do, thanks fellas. :thumbsup:

[J-hop]

Originally posted by mslbebiz


...and weak RC muscles...

this, most of the people I work out with do not incorporate a rotator excercise into their workout, or i've seen idiots doing rotator exercises straining while doing it. RCs are easy to damage, I do just a little more than the min the pulley machine will go down to. My personal view is if you are doing rotator exercises and you are getting any sort of a burn you are doing to much.

[mslbebiz]

^ Yeah they shouldn't be hard, and done very light. Like a 5lb DB to start with, or towel rotations if you want to keep it really simple. I've progressed from towels to bands which also works well and adds an another element of resistance.

[Darkane]

Originally posted by buh_buh
I'm gonna make a switch to front squats this week since my back is still bugging me a bit. I've never done it before, any tips?

Yes.

1) As said Elbows up. TRY the olympic "catch" grip (google) and if your wrist flexibility is off, do the cross grip (google).

2) The bar must sit in the "pocket" of the medial delt (front shoulder). Raise your right arm and feel where the delt attaches to the colar bone. The bar will sit there - and will choke you for the first bit. Remember to ARCH your lower back throughout the movement and the Choking will lessen.

3) Focus on LOW reps for Front squat. 3-5 rep range. Anymore and you'll hunch over compromising form. Once your back is better - go heavy. You'll notice a BIG difference in the weights used anyway.

4) If you want to Further ease the pressure on your back, put 2 plates under your heels and go Ass to Grass for depth. This will target the Quads (specifically the vastus medialis [tear drop beside the knee]). This will also strengthen the knee, if you have issues.

5) Remember to stretch these: Hips, hams, and IT bands (very Important if your knees feel funny). Google for ideas.

I'm basically Limited to Fronts because of Mobility and back issues. But at least I can still squat.

Here's a tip for you guys who have pain squatting - If you're using less weight, squat FASTER.

Force = Mass x acceleration. Faster you squat the more force you produce AND engage more muscle fibers, therefore enabling more growth.

[Darkane]

Originally posted by J-hop


this, most of the people I work out with do not incorporate a rotator excercise into their workout, or i've seen idiots doing rotator exercises straining while doing it. RCs are easy to damage, I do just a little more than the min the pulley machine will go down to. My personal view is if you are doing rotator exercises and you are getting any sort of a burn you are doing to much.

Yes, RC are tricky.

Thermabands (physio green tubing) work excellent for external rotations.

sets of 20 just before benching will bring lots of blood to the area and warm you up nicely.

[94boosted]

Originally posted by KRyn
Damn I will be elite in bench, squat and dead within the next year or so! Ballllliiiiinnnnn:bigpimp:
To bad their elite totals will hardly enable me to qualify for nationals in the IPF.

Your going for a 360lb bench with your shoulder buddy? With a bench shirt or without?

[KRyn]

Originally posted by 94boosted


Your going for a 360lb bench with your shoulder buddy? With a bench shirt or without?


Shoulder is feeling good, just starting to get back into benching. Keeping up with the rehab has been key. Right now I am sure you can bench more than me. However, 360lbs in a shirt for a single should be happening in the some what near future. All of the guys I lift with can bench 360lbs! :cry: I am so pathetic.