How Many police are needed?

[mr2mike]

http://i.imgur.com/Myjx4.jpg


http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/Collision+between+dump+truck+pickup+kills+driver/4256113/story.html


Accident on 144th Ave NW between a dump truck and pickup truck, driver killed.
I've driven this road all the time for over 10 years and feel bad for the guy who got killed.

My question is, how many police are needed on the scene? I count: 6 vehicles that I can see. There could be more by the firetrucks.

So the call comes in and they all chime in that they're headed to the scene?!?
:banghead:

[Kloubek]

....would you rather they be handing out tickets elsewhere?

[jazzyb]

it would be *how much police <- the method in which you formed your sentence implies an un-countable "police".

If you said "how many police officers are needed" then we're talking.

[FraserB]

Looks like two undercover (traffic section), pickup truck (truck unit), sergeat (SUV), crime scene (cube van). Two fire trucks,heavy rescue, manybe the support truck as well it looks like. Maybe they should just send down the rookie with a trash can and a disposable camera.

[ddduke]

So funny that every single cop there is a ghost car:

Colorado, Crown Vic, Durango, Explorer

I don't see the other 2 though. Maybe that second explorer but I doubt it.


edit. completely ignored the cube van.

[arian_ma]

I think I spy a van in front of the explorer. You can see the lights on the roof.

Accident looks rough though...

[polarice]

What would you expect for a fatality? A one man show? The amount seems perfectly reasonable to me.

[sillysod]

Those gravel truck drivers are a bunch of heros. No surprise. They blast up and down those hills with full loads in company trucks that they don't give a shit about. Most get paid per run so they try and squeeze in as many in a day as possible.

[theken]

Fatality accidents require a lot of police, are you harping on them now for doing their jobs, but in the same breath be pissed that they give useless tickets?

You need the truck guys as it is a commercial vehicle, you need the guy to recreate the accident (hence van) they need the responding officers, you need supervisors, and you need people to do traffic while the other cops are doing their jobs. If this post of yours is a knock on police again, you should give your head a shake.

[2002civic]

OP is a moron for questioning the police investigating a traffic FATALITY...

[JRSC00LUDE]

The correct answer is, 7. Stupid.

[GOnSHO]

Originally posted by arian_ma
I think I spy a van in front of the explorer. You can see the lights on the roof.

Accident looks rough though...


not a van...

Truck Unit with topper

[Feruk]

Police party, nobody wants to be left out! :D

On a serious note, looks ok to me.

[revelations]

The amount of paperwork with a fatality or serious MVA is ridiculous. That one reason for the extra man power.
This is what the (despised) traffic units do when they arent sitting at lidar traps - dealing with serious MVA's.


Add the traffic incident reconstruction team to this list as well (I dont see them on the scene yet) and it does look like a CPS block party.

[JustGo]

What exactly is the point of this post?

When 4 fire trucks show up to the scene of a water main break, nobody questions that... so what's the big deal?

Why does it even matter? There are 6 police vehicle there, because for whatever reason, they needed 6. Get a life.

[dexlargo]

Originally posted by sillysod
Those gravel truck drivers are a bunch of heros. No surprise. They blast up and down those hills with full loads in company trucks that they don't give a shit about. Most get paid per run so they try and squeeze in as many in a day as possible. Jumping to conclusions?

I heard on the radio that the pickup truck was driving in the oncoming lane. If that's correct, your hating on the gravel truck driver is misplaced.

Police have said alcohol was not a factor. This leads me to jump to the conclusion that it might be suicide - or the guy is a dangerous passer. I could totally be wrong, though, maybe he was distracted by his cell phone or something.

[Duckman]

I'd go with cell phone/gizmo just because the damage to the pick up is all to the left side front making it look to me like a slow fade into the oncoming lane as opposed to a full head on suicide. Most bad passing decision crashes I've seen, there is some kind of attempt at avoidance.
But I wasn't there so I'm just armchairing it from the cheap seats.
Can they pull phone records to find out if either of them was on the phone or texting?

[Maxt]

I know what the OP is getting at, just that this crash is not the best example, because it is a fatality. However I do share his frustration with the overkill for lack of a better word of emergency personnel attendance at accident scenes, sometimes it just outright stupidity.
I witnessed 2 very minor accidents this week, that were attended like it was a world trade centre incident.
The greatest frustration is when there are 10 + cops standing there scratching their nuts, blocking lanes that don't need to be blocked, while traffic turns to total chaos upstream of the accident. The perception to the motorist, is that its a great way to piss away a shift for the cops, without doing alot. And the cops doing nothing to facilitate the flow of traffic around the accident is a problem, more often then not they are adding to the overall problem rather than bettering any situation.
Anyone that went through the overturned gravel truck accident at Cranston turnoff on deerfoot last year knows what I am talking about.

[Graham_A_M]

Originally posted by polarice
What would you expect for a fatality? A one man show? The amount seems perfectly reasonable to me.

This. If that was your dad that was killed, you'd be totally okay with a couple firemen and a peace officer handling the whole situation?

Get real buddy, a fatality is a pretty serious thing. So yes lots of police involved in a variety of aspects of police work are required to be present.


:rolleyes:

[Sugarphreak]

....

[Cos]

.

[Traffic_Cop]

A fatality will be handled by a Traffic Response unit, this comprises of 8 constables, and a Sgt. The Reconstruction unit will be made up of a Sgt and a constable. Every constable has a skill set ie photography, survey etc. The Sgts will assign specific duties ie vehicle measurements, scene exam, continuity, body continuity, statements etc etc. Zone units will be present conducting traffic control and scene security.

Its a long tough process. The work has to be meticulous and is very time consuming.

Hope this helps.

Oh, yes you will always see the unmarked/ghost vehicles as these are all traffic officers.

[Traffic_Cop]

Originally posted by Maxt
I know what the OP is getting at, just that this crash is not the best example, because it is a fatality. However I do share his frustration with the overkill for lack of a better word of emergency personnel attendance at accident scenes, sometimes it just outright stupidity.
I witnessed 2 very minor accidents this week, that were attended like it was a world trade centre incident.
The greatest frustration is when there are 10 + cops standing there scratching their nuts, blocking lanes that don't need to be blocked, while traffic turns to total chaos upstream of the accident. The perception to the motorist, is that its a great way to piss away a shift for the cops, without doing alot. And the cops doing nothing to facilitate the flow of traffic around the accident is a problem, more often then not they are adding to the overall problem rather than bettering any situation.
Anyone that went through the overturned gravel truck accident at Cranston turnoff on deerfoot last year knows what I am talking about.

This collision was a near fatal involving alcohol, again needs tine to be investigated. I realise the frustration with slow traffic, however id rather you be driving slow past me rather than some guy with his head up his ass texting, doing 110kmh not seeing me walking around.

[mr2mike]

Traffic_Cop: Thanks for clearing that up. Just looked liked an over useage of resources to me as I figured once the accident scene guys show up in the once vehicle (Big industrial van) they do all the reconstructing, photos, paperwork, etc that you spoke of and it was then out of the constable's hands and maybe a few would stick around for traffic control and media relations. Guess not.

[Traffic_Cop]

nope, its a huge job.......vehicles had to be measured etc, tire pressures taken, all guages and location documented, the papework for the cars alone is 12 pages long. 1 car takes 2 constables approx 2 hours. Then like I mentioned theres all th other jobs. A scene takes anywhere from 4-8 hours. If we are fully staffed.

[Maxt]

Originally posted by Traffic_Cop


This collision was a near fatal involving alcohol, again needs tine to be investigated. I realise the frustration with slow traffic, however id rather you be driving slow past me rather than some guy with his head up his ass texting, doing 110kmh not seeing me walking around.

Well, unfortunately, your reasoning or reply has nothing to do with how it was handled that day.
How could there be anyone whizzing by you working when the actual incident was in the ditch more than 100 feet from the deerfoot roadway and was biased towards the cranston offramp road.
How could backed up traffic moving at 1-2 km/hr be whizzing by.
The reality of that situation is that the lane was closed bringing deerfoot south to one lane because a few unoccupied emergency vehicles chose to park in the shoulder and pylon off a lane of deerfoot for really no reason, when they could have easily been setup on the cranston off ramp road leaving deerfoot open and flowing, they were removing the truck onto the overpass roadway anyway, close it down.
Instead, traffic was backed up more than 10 km that day, ZERO effort was made to direct traffic at the merge point, there was not one cop manning the merge point, it was total chaos.
On top of that, no effort was made, even 5 hours after the accident happened to redirect or even stop people from proceeding past the last possible bypass route to avoid the choke point to one lane. Volker Stevin should take some of the blame for that.
I learned about the accident from QR77 far to late to avoid being caught up to the point I could not bypass it.
Yeah it sucks that accidents happens, I know the investigation has to be carried out. However there seems to be a disconnect between common sense and priority when it comes to the way accidents are handled.
Don't take this personally, but the way its handles here is a disaster in itself, and its not a personal attack, its the fact I don't think the training is very good in terms of prioritizing how things are done. Just using some common sense would go a long way.
Sure you are trying to investigate, but really whats the point of blocking things up so bad, that its creating 100 issues behind the accident. People get pissed in traffic, and all rational thinking goes out the window. The police seem to be oblivious to this and they just let people fend for themselves, you always get the assholes that can't follow any semblance of alternation unless directed to.
On the cranston crash, people started a 4th and 5th lane driving in the shoulders and on the grass then trying to pull back at the overpasses.. It was just stupidity. I sat in that traffic jam for 2.5 hours, to get the merge point to see a couple of unoccupied vehicles occupying the shoulder and the closed lane of deerfoot really closed for no reason.. That's just poor decision making, there is no other excuse for it.
Yes, the convenience of first responders comes first, but there also has to be a secondary awareness that the rest of the world has to still function as well.

[ryder_23]

Originally posted by Maxt


Well, unfortunately, your reasoning or reply has nothing to do with how it was handled that day.
How could there be anyone whizzing by you working when the actual incident was in the ditch more than 100 feet from the deerfoot roadway and was biased towards the cranston offramp road.
How could backed up traffic moving at 1-2 km/hr be whizzing by.
The reality of that situation is that the lane was closed bringing deerfoot south to one lane because a few unoccupied emergency vehicles chose to park in the shoulder and pylon off a lane of deerfoot for really no reason, when they could have easily been setup on the cranston off ramp road leaving deerfoot open and flowing, they were removing the truck onto the overpass roadway anyway, close it down.
Instead, traffic was backed up more than 10 km that day, ZERO effort was made to direct traffic at the merge point, there was not one cop manning the merge point, it was total chaos.
On top of that, no effort was made, even 5 hours after the accident happened to redirect or even stop people from proceeding past the last possible bypass route to avoid the choke point to one lane. Volker Stevin should take some of the blame for that.
I learned about the accident from QR77 far to late to avoid being caught up to the point I could not bypass it.
Yeah it sucks that accidents happens, I know the investigation has to be carried out. However there seems to be a disconnect between common sense and priority when it comes to the way accidents are handled.
Don't take this personally, but the way its handles here is a disaster in itself, and its not a personal attack, its the fact I don't think the training is very good in terms of prioritizing how things are done. Just using some common sense would go a long way.
Sure you are trying to investigate, but really whats the point of blocking things up so bad, that its creating 100 issues behind the accident. People get pissed in traffic, and all rational thinking goes out the window. The police seem to be oblivious to this and they just let people fend for themselves, you always get the assholes that can't follow any semblance of alternation unless directed to.
On the cranston crash, people started a 4th and 5th lane driving in the shoulders and on the grass then trying to pull back at the overpasses.. It was just stupidity. I sat in that traffic jam for 2.5 hours, to get the merge point to see a couple of unoccupied vehicles occupying the shoulder and the closed lane of deerfoot really closed for no reason.. That's just poor decision making, there is no other excuse for it.
Yes, the convenience of first responders comes first, but there also has to be a secondary awareness that the rest of the world has to still function as well.

Are you retarded? Remember 9-11? First responders came first, but those being trapped unable to fly home for school/work/hooker call didn't get priority. Sure thats a way out there example, but someone fucking died. Let them carry out there investigation. Say it happened to someone you cared about, and they did a half ass job so people can drive by? And some wasted driver(not saying anyone in this was wasted, just saying in general) got off because they didn't dot there I's and cross there T's. Quit thinking your the only person in the world that matters. Shit sucks and you go with it.

[codetrap]

Originally posted by Maxt
~snip~
its the fact I don't think the training is very good in terms of prioritizing how things are done. Just using some common sense would go a long way.
Sure you are trying to investigate, but really whats the point of blocking things up so bad, that its creating 100 issues behind the accident. People get pissed in traffic, and all rational thinking goes out the window. The police seem to be oblivious to this and they just let people fend for themselves ~snip~

2 points.

First, their priorities are not your priorities. They (rightly so) don't give a shit if you're stuck in traffic due to the collision.

Second, Maybe they're assuming (apparently wrongly) that people can be adults and fend for themselves.


I'm currently down here in San Diego, and driving down here is a real eye opener for me as to how shitty the Calgary drivers really are, and how piss poor their overall attitude seems to be. It's been a real pleasure to drive here. Everything is fast, and overall everyone is quite courteous.

[Maxt]

Originally posted by ryder_23


Are you retarded? Remember 9-11? First responders came first, but those being trapped unable to fly home for school/work/hooker call didn't get priority. Sure thats a way out there example, but someone fucking died. Let them carry out there investigation. Say it happened to someone you cared about, and they did a half ass job so people can drive by? And some wasted driver(not saying anyone in this was wasted, just saying in general) got off because they didn't dot there I's and cross there T's. Quit thinking your the only person in the world that matters. Shit sucks and you go with it.
Hey dipshit, in the accident I am talking about, no one fucking died, retard.. The rest of your post is just fucking nonsense anyway..

[Maxt]

Originally posted by codetrap


2 points.

First, their priorities are not your priorities. They (rightly so) don't give a shit if you're stuck in traffic due to the collision.

Second, Maybe they're assuming (apparently wrongly) that people can be adults and fend for themselves.


I'm currently down here in San Diego, and driving down here is a real eye opener for me as to how shitty the Calgary drivers really are, and how piss poor their overall attitude seems to be. It's been a real pleasure to drive here. Everything is fast, and overall everyone is quite courteous.
No I realize that, and I also stated that. However if you have ever been in similar situations in other countries like you say, you see how its handled alot better...In Japan they have flag people that work with first responders, all they do is keep traffic moving so people pay attention and don't rubberneck, they also clear lanes out so emergency vehicles can come and go.
Every accident you come upon here, they close lanes and do zero traffic control, then you get back ups, people get mentally lazy and you get more accidents..
One track thinking doesn't help anyone, especially if you make such a clusterfuck out of traffic, that if more emergency vehicles are needed, they can't get to the scene either, and you see that all the time. We are just lucky that we have had few compounding incidents where second and third wave of responders are needed..