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turbotrip
02-20-2011, 08:36 PM
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2011/2/20/1298226762943/Raymond-Davis-American-ma-007.jpg

Originally posted
The American who shot dead two men in Lahore, triggering a diplomatic crisis between Pakistan and the US, is a CIA agent who was on assignment at the time.

Raymond Davis has been the subject of widespread speculation since he opened fire with a semi-automatic Glock pistol on the two men who had pulled up in front of his car at a red light on 25 January.

Pakistani authorities charged him with murder, but the Obama administration has insisted he is an "administrative and technical official" attached to its Lahore consulate and has diplomatic immunity.

Based on interviews in the US and Pakistan, the Guardian can confirm that the 36-year-old former special forces soldier is employed by the CIA. "It's beyond a shadow of a doubt," said a senior Pakistani intelligence official. The revelation may complicate American efforts to free Davis, who insists he was acting in self-defence against a pair of suspected robbers, who were both carrying guns.

Pakistani prosecutors accuse the spy of excessive force, saying he fired 10 shots and got out of his car to shoot one man twice in the back as he fled. The man's body was found 30 feet from his motorbike.

"It went way beyond what we define as self-defence. It was not commensurate with the threat," a senior police official involved in the case told the Guardian.

The Pakistani government is aware of Davis's CIA status yet has kept quiet in the face of immense American pressure to free him under the Vienna convention. Last week President Barack Obama described Davis as "our diplomat" and dispatched his chief diplomatic troubleshooter, Senator John Kerry, to Islamabad. Kerry returned home empty-handed.

Many Pakistanis are outraged at the idea of an armed American rampaging through their second-largest city. Analysts have warned of Egyptian-style protests if Davis is released. The government, fearful of a backlash, says it needs until 14 March to decide whether Davis enjoys immunity.

A third man was crushed by an American vehicle as it rushed to Davis's aid. Pakistani officials believe its occupants were CIA because they came from the house where Davis lived and were armed.

The US refused Pakistani demands to interrogate the two men and on Sunday a senior Pakistani intelligence official said they had left the country. "They have flown the coop, they are already in America," he said.

ABC News reported that the men had the same diplomatic visas as Davis. It is not unusual for US intelligence officers, like their counterparts round the world, to carry diplomatic passports.

The US has accused Pakistan of illegally detaining him and riding roughshod over international treaties. Angry politicians have proposed slashing Islamabad's $1.5bn (£900m) annual aid.

But Washington's case is hobbled by its resounding silence on Davis's role. He served in the US special forces for 10 years before leaving in 2003 to become a security contractor. A senior Pakistani official said he believed Davis had worked with Xe, the firm formerly known as Blackwater.

Pakistani suspicions about Davis's role were stoked by the equipment police confiscated from his car: an unlicensed pistol, a long-range radio, a GPS device, an infrared torch and a camera with pictures of buildings around Lahore.

"This is not the work of a diplomat. He was doing espionage and surveillance activities," said the Punjab law minister, Rana Sanaullah, adding he had "confirmation" that Davis was a CIA employee.

A number of US media outlets learned about Davis's CIA role but have kept it under wraps at the request of the Obama administration. A Colorado television station, 9NEWS, made a connection after speaking to Davis's wife. She referred its inquiries to a number in Washington which turned out to be the CIA. The station removed the CIA reference from its website at the request of the US government.

Some reports, quoting Pakistani intelligence officials, have suggested that the men Davis killed, Faizan Haider, 21, and Muhammad Faheem, 19, were agents of Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence spy agency (ISI) and had orders to shadow Davis because he crossed a "red line".

A senior police official confirmed US claims that the men were petty thieves – investigators found stolen mobiles, foreign currency and weapons on them – but did not rule out an intelligence link.

A senior ISI official denied the dead men worked for the spy agency but admitted the CIA relationship had been damaged. "We are a sovereign country and if they want to work with us, they need to develop a trusting relationship on the basis of equality. Being arrogant and demanding is not the way to do it," he said.

Tensions between the spy agencies have been growing. The CIA Islamabad station chief was forced to leave in December after being named in a civil lawsuit. The ISI was angered when its chief, General Shuja Pasha, was named in a New York lawsuit related to the 2008 Mumbai attacks.

Although the two spy services co-operate in the CIA's drone campaign along the Afghan border, there has not been a drone strike since 23 January – the longest lull since June 2009. Experts are unsure whether both events are linked.

Davis awaits his fate in Kot Lakhpat jail in Lahore. Pakistani officials say they have taken exceptional measures to ensure his safety, including ringing the prison with paramilitary Punjab Rangers. The law minister, Sanaullah, said Davis was in a "high security zone" and was receiving food from visitors from the US consulate.

Sanaullah said 140 foreigners were in the facility, many on drug charges. Press reports have speculated that the authorities worry the US could try to spring Davis in a "Hollywood-style sting". "All measures for his security have been taken," said the ISI official. "He's as safe as can be."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/feb/20/us-raymond-davis-lahore-cia

top_speed
02-20-2011, 08:52 PM
i say treat him like a pakistani prisoner and put him on deathrow or just hand him over to the talibans let them take care of him. haha

BigDannyCool
02-20-2011, 08:57 PM
sounds like a good movie plot

BigMass
02-20-2011, 10:23 PM
The CIA wants the ISI to be a puppet entity doing what it’s told. It’s going to get really messy if the ISI ends up telling the CIA to fuck off out of Pakistan.


Originally posted by BigDannyCool
sounds like a good movie plot

I’ve always said real life is far more dramatic and interesting than any work of fiction. I don’t think even writers would be able to imagine a story based on some of the shit that goes on behind the public eye.

chkolny541
02-21-2011, 07:01 AM
wow this just gets me so angry, could you imagine if an ISI agent went to america and shot up 2 people, i 100% gaurentee that they wouldnt just let the guy go


and this also just angered me

'A third man was crushed by an American vehicle as it rushed to Davis's aid. Pakistani officials believe its occupants were CIA because they came from the house where Davis lived and were armed.

The US refused Pakistani demands to interrogate the two men and on Sunday a senior Pakistani intelligence official said they had left the country. "They have flown the coop, they are already in America," he said."


so they ran over a 3 rd man and just scurried off back to america quickly, wow.

hope this guy rots, self defense,=! 10 shots + nearly chasing down one guy as he tries to flee

crewchaud
02-21-2011, 09:05 AM
Call it a hunch but I'm going to say the CIA agent was most likely justified in his actions. The CIA has been in Islamabad now for over 2 decades without incident so why now would they fuel an international incident???

Pakistan has been up shits creek for some time now and this media stunt is not going to help there cause. Why risk over a billion dollars in aid over this?

As for 10 shots I would have to imagine Davis was shooting blind at some point during the transaction. Ex-Blackwater Special Ops would not shoot like that in a normal situation.

White American male stopped by 2 armed Pakistanis in Pakistan = what the fuck would you do?

Super_Geo
02-21-2011, 09:10 AM
Two armed robbers got shot the fuck up. I don't care which country it's in, that will always be a big plus in my books.

From what the Pakistani officials are saying, it sounds like the robbers approached the CIA agent, not the other way around. Why aren't the people of Pakistan thanking the guy for saving them the trouble of wiping out two garbage members of society?

CMW403
02-21-2011, 09:38 AM
Originally posted by chkolny541
wow this just gets me so angry, could you imagine if an ISI agent went to america and shot up 2 people, i 100% gaurentee that they wouldnt just let the guy go


and this also just angered me

'A third man was crushed by an American vehicle as it rushed to Davis's aid. Pakistani officials believe its occupants were CIA because they came from the house where Davis lived and were armed.

The US refused Pakistani demands to interrogate the two men and on Sunday a senior Pakistani intelligence official said they had left the country. "They have flown the coop, they are already in America," he said."


so they ran over a 3 rd man and just scurried off back to america quickly, wow.

hope this guy rots, self defense,=! 10 shots + nearly chasing down one guy as he tries to flee

Holy shit, seems like you know more about the situation than anybody, were you there?

I don't really care what he did or if it was justified, we'll never know the real story. I hope the US gets him the fuck out somehow though, cause I'm sure prison in pakistan isn't the most fun a guy can have.

DRKM
02-21-2011, 10:27 AM
Originally posted by crewchaud
Call it a hunch but I'm going to say the CIA agent was most likely justified in his actions. The CIA has been in Islamabad now for over 2 decades without incident so why now would they fuel an international incident???

Pakistan has been up shits creek for some time now and this media stunt is not going to help there cause. Why risk over a billion dollars in aid over this?

As for 10 shots I would have to imagine Davis was shooting blind at some point during the transaction. Ex-Blackwater Special Ops would not shoot like that in a normal situation.

White American male stopped by 2 armed Pakistanis in Pakistan = what the fuck would you do?

2 young guys pull up next to you on a motorcycle in Islamabad chances are they are about to rob your shit.

I would never fuck with an ex special forces member. Those men are scary enough when they are unarmed.

To all of those people saying let him rot in prison in pakistan: Isn't there a bit of a double standard? Everyone cries foul when the US breaks international law but Pakistan is breaking international law right now by breaking the Vienna treaty.

desi112
02-21-2011, 02:38 PM
if he indeed shot a fleeing robber in the back he used excessive force, well outta of the defining reach of self defence, to pakistani jail with him.

due process my friends due process.

Guillermo
02-21-2011, 03:06 PM
i think it's funny when people expect western norms and law to apply in pakistan when they CLEARLY don't, but then turn around and criticize the western governments and culture where such things DO apply. :banghead:

TheCheff
02-21-2011, 03:12 PM
Obviously we are only getting about 5% of the true story here. No-one can create an accurate statement based on the information we have.

If they were robbers the only reason they were running away is because he had a gun to defend himself. I guarantee it would be different if said person was unarmed. Also if they also had firearms how is that not within reasonable self defense??

gatorade
02-21-2011, 03:36 PM
Originally posted by crewchaud
As for 10 shots I would have to imagine Davis was shooting blind at some point during the transaction. Ex-Blackwater Special Ops would not shoot like that in a normal situation.


Blackwater was notorious for shooting civililans in Iraq that the Iraqi government kicked them out. Blackwater also had to change their name to XE in order to deflect the stigma attached to their company name.

dandia89
02-21-2011, 03:44 PM
Originally posted by CMW403


Holy shit, seems like you know more about the situation than anybody, were you there?

I don't really care what he did or if it was justified, we'll never know the real story. I hope the US gets him the fuck out somehow though, cause I'm sure prison in pakistan isn't the most fun a guy can have.

he was just quoting what was said in the article?
with the information given, it obviously has a bias that america is in the wrong here. its okay though, i know how much you have a hate on for anyone brown or muslim

CUG
02-21-2011, 04:59 PM
LOL, according to who? The Pakistani government? They're as qualified as a toddler to make judicial decisions. :rofl:

scary_perry
02-21-2011, 09:33 PM
He read too many Ludlum novels. A shot over their heads would have scared them away. Then let police handle it.

CMW403
02-22-2011, 10:13 AM
Originally posted by dandia89


he was just quoting what was said in the article?
with the information given, it obviously has a bias that america is in the wrong here. its okay though, i know how much you have a hate on for anyone brown or muslim

Yeah, you're right. I'm glad you know how much of a hate I have on for anyone brown or muslim.

BigMass
02-23-2011, 05:10 PM
Pakistan's intelligence ready to split with CIA
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110223/ap_on_re_us/us_pakistan_feuding_spies

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan – Pakistan's ISI spy agency is ready to split with the CIA because of frustration over what it calls heavy-handed pressure and its anger over what it believes is a covert U.S. operation involving hundreds of contract spies, according to an internal document obtained by The Associated Press and interviews with U.S. and Pakistani officials

arian_ma
02-23-2011, 05:31 PM
Originally posted by CUG
LOL, according to who? The Pakistani government? They're as qualified as a toddler to make judicial decisions. :rofl:
lol yeah the Americans are known worldwide for always being upfront and telling the truth, Pakistanis are full of shit.
:nut:

Godfuader
03-16-2011, 07:06 PM
Kill a Pakistani...payoff and walkoff.

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia/2011/03/2011316121616279778.html

1barA4
03-16-2011, 07:50 PM
Originally posted by Godfuader
Kill a Pakistani...payoff and walkoff.

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia/2011/03/2011316121616279778.html

Did you really expect any different?

Godfuader
03-16-2011, 08:10 PM
Originally posted by 1barA4


Did you really expect any different?
I'm just waiting for the American sympathizers to say that it was perfectly legal move according to the local law...and in the next thread bitch when the same law book is mocked for not falling in line with western beliefs. :drama: