Fucking worthless crackheads...

[Canucks3322]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/story/2011/02/22/calgary-parkade-break-in-needle-syringe-forehead.html

Why in this country do we not just round up these druggies and force them off drugs and help them become contributing members of society? Oh yea...something about human rights and how it's up to them to seek help right...

"Good Samaritan gets a needle in the forehead
CBC News Posted: Feb 22, 2011 3:31 PM MT Last Updated: Feb 22, 2011 3:31 PM MT
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A Calgary man was stabbed in the forehead with a syringe while trying to stop a vehicle break-in last week.

At about 11 a.m. Thursday, a man on the fourth level of a parkade at 231 Sixth Ave. S.W. saw another man apparently trying to break into a vehicle, police said.

While he called 911 to report the incident, he was attacked from behind by a second suspect, police said. The victim was struck to the ground and as he was getting up, was stabbed in the head with a syringe.

The needle broke off in his forehead.

The suspect then swung at the man multiple times with an unknown object, causing slash marks on his jacket, police said.

He rolled under his vehicle in an attempt to defend himself and the two suspects took off, police said.

He was taken to hospital, treated and released.

The first suspect is described as being about five feet, 10 inches tall, with a slim build and a bushy grey-brown beard. He was wearing a black hoodie, blue jeans and white runners with holes in them, police said.

The second suspect is described as being at least five feet, 11 inches tall, wearing leather work gloves and black sneakers.

Anyone with information is asked to call police at 403-266-1234 or Crime Stoppers at 1-800-222-8477."


Karma...hopefully some time soon these 2 will end up in alley dead from overdosing.

[Jeremiah]

Better yet why not just push them off a bridge?

[4lti]

Are you serious about that question?
Sucks to get a needle broken in your head tho...

[revelations]

These guys will get whats coming to them. A lot of these clowns dont have other clothes to wear.

I like how the race was omitted, were they caucasian? Native American?

[tbomb]

Real life zombies

[Canucks3322]

I have a heart too...but when society has come to this point...isn't it really time we start rounding them up and putting them away?

[ekguy]

Originally posted by tbomb
Real life zombies

What did zombies ever do to you???? comparing crackheads to zombies...how dare you haha.

[CMW403]

People like this should be put in front of a firing squad. What if the needle was infected with HIV/AIDS?

[403Gemini]

Scary, I park in that parkade all the time...

[Canucks3322]

Originally posted by CMW403
People like this should be put in front of a firing squad. What if the needle was infected with HIV/AIDS?

That's kind of the point from their view though lol...it's a weapon...this sort of thing has been happening in Vancouver for years, crackheads will mug you and threaten you with a syringe. Sad that it is starting to happen in Calgary now...

[dexlargo]

Originally posted by 403Gemini
Scary, I park in that parkade all the time... Is that the old Bay parkade? The stairwells in that place smell like pee. I think they smell that way because people pee in the stairwells. Those people are crackheads.

[badatusrnames]

This parkade is notorious for crackheads hanging out in it and breaking into cars, I remember a few years ago a woman was assaulted during the day as well. Sounds like security there has always been non-existent, you would think they would do something to fix that.

I hate to say it, but this just proves that being a good Samaritan isn't worth it, it's not worth risking your personal safety and having a needle jabbed into your forehead over the property of another that's entirely replaceable.

[Type_S1]

They should all be killed...sending them to jail would just burden society further. Half the "people" around the homeless shelter downtown should just be put in the landfill instead of wasting our countries money when they do nothing to contribute to the country.

[creeper]

Originally posted by Type_S1
They should all be killed...sending them to jail would just burden society further. Half the "people" around the homeless shelter downtown should just be put in the landfill instead of wasting our countries money when they do nothing to contribute to the country.

Absolutely. I don't want my money being spent on any of this stuff. Should send a form to taxpayers each year, similar to asking if you support public or catholic schools, do you want to support homeless shelters yes/no, do you want to support spoken word art grants yes/no.

[codetrap]

This is why I think we should be allowed to carry handguns. Some fucker comes at a cop with a syringe, and it's perfectly acceptable to shoot the fucker.

If I were to do that, or even shoot the fucker with a taser, I'm likely to to end up in prison.

Screw that. I'm ordering a couple of tasers for my wife and myself.

[derpderp]

Originally posted by codetrap
This is why I think we should be allowed to carry handguns. Some fucker comes at a cop with a syringe, and it's perfectly acceptable to shoot the fucker.

If I were to do that, or even shoot the fucker with a taser, I'm likely to to end up in prison.

Screw that. I'm ordering a couple of tasers for my wife and myself.

This this this.

[frizzlefry]

Originally posted by codetrap
This is why I think we should be allowed to carry handguns. Some fucker comes at a cop with a syringe, and it's perfectly acceptable to shoot the fucker.

If I were to do that, or even shoot the fucker with a taser, I'm likely to to end up in prison.

Screw that. I'm ordering a couple of tasers for my wife and myself.

Isn;t it illegal to even carry tasers? I can understand laws that prevents everyone from running around with handguns but at least let us carry tasers or batons. I mean, they are according to the police "non-lethal". People should be able to carry them.

[Anomaly]

Originally posted by codetrap
This is why I think we should be allowed to carry handguns. Some fucker comes at a cop with a syringe, and it's perfectly acceptable to shoot the fucker.

If I were to do that, or even shoot the fucker with a taser, I'm likely to to end up in prison.

Screw that. I'm ordering a couple of tasers for my wife and myself.


Yep, really wish you could get CCW permits in canada.

[Kennyredline]

Originally posted by codetrap
This is why I think we should be allowed to carry handguns. Some fucker comes at a cop with a syringe, and it's perfectly acceptable to shoot the fucker.

If I were to do that, or even shoot the fucker with a taser, I'm likely to to end up in prison.

Screw that. I'm ordering a couple of tasers for my wife and myself.
Isn't the law designed so that you can't use more force on a person than they are using on you? It's pretty stupid, I don't carry syringes around at all....how am I gonna defend myself against one?

http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/hs467.snc4/50334_4620721005_7599_n.jpg

[frizzlefry]

Originally posted by Kennyredline

Isn't the law designed so that you can't use more force on a person than they are using on you? It's pretty stupid, I don't carry syringes around at all....how am I gonna defend myself against one?

http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/hs467.snc4/50334_4620721005_7599_n.jpg

really dumb. Especially since the needle could have aids. Thats an eventual death sentance. I would use deadly force in a needle fight for sure....then get arrested for it. :thumbsdow

[arian_ma]

Seriously though? Which jury in their right mind would put a contributing member of society who was trying to stop crackheads from breaking into a car behind bars for protecting themselves? It doesn't make logical sense. This can't be true. Anyone have any links to stories where people were put behind bars for self defense?

[CMW403]

Originally posted by arian_ma
Seriously though? Which jury in their right mind would put a contributing member of society who was trying to stop crackheads from breaking into a car behind bars for protecting themselves? It doesn't make logical sense. This can't be true. Anyone have any links to stories where people were put behind bars for self defense?

LOL

You're not Canadian are you?

[frizzlefry]

I was at a coffee shop about 17 years ago. Some "home boy" teenagers were outside the shop drunk and threw a bottle at the window of the coffee shop. The owner went out to confront them (there was about 15 of them) and one of them took a swing at him. Shop owner pushed him back, came back in and got a wood chair leg and went back out. Another hommie took a swing so the shop owner hit him with the chair leg. They started to surround him so he came back in and called the cops. Cops showed up, arrested some of the teens AND the shop owner. Cop told him that he sympathized but if you are hit, hit back but don't grab a weapon to defend against a fist. I heard that he plead guilty and got a slap on the wrist. But a slap none the less. BS in my opinion. He was out numbered.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by Kennyredline

Isn't the law designed so that you can't use more force on a person than they are using on you? It's pretty stupid, I don't carry syringes around at all....how am I gonna defend myself against one?


Canadian law is carefully designed so you cannot ever use "necessary" force until it's too late, because only then, in 99% of circumstances, can you know what is going to be equal or lesser (i.e. after you've already been hit, shot, stabbed, or poked with said syringe).

What would make sense is if the law allowed you to assume the worst when someone comes at you with something like a syringe, because that is the only reasonable assumption. But thats not how it works.

I personally think all of Calgary's crackheads should be rounded up and killed. Imagine how much nicer the city would be, especially downtown. They don't contribute even a shred to society. It may sound heartless but it's true.

[codetrap]

Originally posted by frizzlefry


Isn;t it illegal to even carry tasers? I can understand laws that prevents everyone from running around with handguns but at least let us carry tasers or batons. I mean, they are according to the police "non-lethal". People should be able to carry them.

I don't think they're banned, only restricted. Perhaps one of the officers on beyond could comment on the particular legality.

Either way, I don't honestly give a shit. :dunno: If push came to shove, and I or my wife had to use it to defend ourselves or my daughter, you can be damned sure it'd be in the news, and I'd be setting a precedent in a very public trial

There is absolutely nothing I would not do in order to protect my daughter. As far as the legal aspect? Legal/illegal is a very hazy distinction until it's hashed out in the courts.

[Sugarphreak]

....

[whiskas]

Every citizen has the right to arrest a person if they see them committing a crime. You are given more leeway defending yourself in that situation (ie. trying to apprehend the likely uncooperative crackhead) as opposed to defending yourself as simply a victim.

[Xtrema]

I would be going to a safe place before making that call.

Bow valley need better security. Especially they are charging over $500 a month for that parkade.

[arian_ma]

Doesn't HIV also take 6 months to show up in a blood test?

[Sugarphreak]

....

[FraserB]

Tasers are impossible to get in Canada unless you buy it illegally, imo a collapsible baton is easier to get rid of.

[Canucks3322]

What about just carrying bear spray?...I think I need to make sure my girlfriend knows how to grip a car key properly to poke out someone's eyes real fast.

[e31]

Originally posted by Canucks3322
I think I need to make sure my girlfriend knows how to grip a car key properly to poke out someone's eyes real fast.

For some reason I always felt safe driving my old Toyota Cressida. Maybe it was because it was a trusty little car, or maybe it was the 2.5" long key blade that could do serious damage in a pinch.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by Canucks3322
What about just carrying bear spray?...I think I need to make sure my girlfriend knows how to grip a car key properly to poke out someone's eyes real fast.

Bear spray would be terrible, as the cans are large and it comes out in a cloud susceptible to wind, etc. Regular mace is what you want, it comes out in a stream. You can buy "dog" spray at The Shooting Edge designed to fit in the hand while jogging for $10. That is your best bet if you want to get your GF something IMO.

[Mar]

These assholes are stupid crazy. My pager alarm went off a few years ago and when I went to check it out, this crackhead was sitting in my driver's seat trying to start my car. The second I went to beat the life out of him he 100% tried to stab me with a screwdriver. He missed my face by about 3/4 of an inch.


I don't agree with rounding them up and doing whatever with them though, the main concern with these guys is rehabilitation because otherwise you're just going to be rounding up 100 new ones per day, it'll never end. It's more socioeconomically productive to rehabilitate them back into society than to simply get rid of them. Also if you let them make the choice for themselves to get clean, they have a much higher success rate than if you force them to do anything.

And the biggest thing is a lot of these guys have sever mental problems so they just can't understand the idea of getting clean, nor how to get to that point. They need a lot of help and unfortunately our taxes pay for that help.

[InRich]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
Fuck me.... I hope the guy doesn't pick up a blood virus like HIV from that needle.

I agree with OP... show me one group of adult people that live dependently on blanket social assistance and are better off for it.

very un-likely. they would have to have shot up within minutes of stabbing the guy. HIV only lives on shit like needles for a couple minutes.


Originally posted by arian_ma
Doesn't HIV also take 6 months to show up in a blood test?

yep... sometimes longer. i feel really bad for the guy, I know I would be getting an HIV test at the 4 month, 6, 8, 10, and 12th.

And I also agree with most of you about carrying a hand gun, my dads a gun expert, i was talking about this with him last night over dinner.

[Mar]

Originally posted by InRich
And I also agree with most of you about carrying a hand gun, my dads a gun expert, i was talking about this with him last night over dinner.
An easier solution would be to move somewhere you don't need a gun. I'd rather move to a safer city than even consider carrying around a gun for protection.

[InRich]

Originally posted by Mar

An easier solution would be to move somewhere you don't need a gun. I'd rather move to a safer city than even consider carrying around a gun for protection.

I make good money here, I ain't moving anywhere.... this is my home, and where I grew up. fuck thats a pussy way out anyway. why would anyone move? its like running away from your troubles, rather then facing them head on. Crackheads like these need to be tied up to a poll, and rock'ed to death. fucking losers.

[403Gemini]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
Fuck me.... I hope the guy doesn't pick up a blood virus like HIV from that needle.


:werd: , as soon as I read needle, that was my first concern. Poor guy, hope nothing permanent happens to him and he has a speedy recovery from his wounds.

[TorqueDog]

The victim is actually an employee of the company I work at. I don't know who, and out of respect for that person's privacy, I haven't asked. But this is some scary shit. I park in that parkade on occasion.

[LollerBrader]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt

I personally think all of Calgary's crackheads should be rounded up and killed. Imagine how much nicer the city would be, especially downtown. They don't contribute even a shred to society. It may sound heartless but it's true.

Agreed. Compassion is a luxury only for those who don't live near crackheads.

[ddduke]

What if you were carrying a pocket knife and didn't use it until a needle or screw driver came flying at your face?

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by ddduke
What if you were carrying a pocket knife and didn't use it until a needle or screw driver came flying at your face?

How many people do you know that could react that fast, especially in what could be a life or death situation? It's easy to think about what you would do, but if you truly feared for your life I think most of us have no clue how we would actually react, myself included. It's impossible to even train for stuff like that IMO. Most people would at least hesitate/fumble a bit I'd imagine.

I sure do wish Canada made it easier to look out for yourself & loved ones.

[frizzlefry]

Originally posted by LollerBrader


Agreed. Compassion is a luxury only for those who don't live near crackheads.

Amen. When I lived in the Beltline there was this drunk hobo that always passed out in the entrance area of my apartment building. Usually he had puked and pissed himself. I had to step over him once or twice a week. He even harassed my girlfriend at the time, calling her a bitch for not giving him money. Anyways, I was walking home from work and saw him panhandling. This woman give him some money. I approached her and said "Pardon me, you don't live downtown do you?" She said "No." I said, "Well, that money you gave that bum to make yourself feel like a decent person just helped him buy booze so he can get drunk, harass my girlfriend and pass out in the entrance to my home, covered in shit and puke. I'm sure if he demanded to be let into your garage to pass out then pissed all over your driveway you would not be giving him anything but a 911 call to the police. Thanks." You should have seen the look she gave me.

[ddduke]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt


How many people do you know that could react that fast, especially in what could be a life or death situation? It's easy to think about what you would do, but if you truly feared for your life I think most of us have no clue how we would actually react, myself included. It's impossible to even train for stuff like that IMO. Most people would at least hesitate/fumble a bit I'd imagine.

I sure do wish Canada made it easier to look out for yourself & loved ones.

That's not the point.

What I'm saying is since self defense doesn't really count until you know what the incident is going to lead to, if someone stabbed you with a needle, then you got up and had a pocket knife and stabbed them, would that be okay?

[CUG]

^ Who gives a shit? Work to kill him so there's no other side of the story. He's coming at you with a fucking needle!

[dexlargo]

Originally posted by Canucks3322
What about just carrying bear spray?...I think I need to make sure my girlfriend knows how to grip a car key properly to poke out someone's eyes real fast. Bear spray is not a prohibited weapon, but still - caution is advised. Bear spray sprays out in a cloud which often ends up envelopping the sprayer as well as the sprayee, especially indoors or in close quarters. Pepper spray that the police use (which is a prohibited weapon for the public) discharges in a stream, which is less likely to cause any damage to the sprayer. So be aware of that.

Also, a person could potentially be charged with possession of a weapon for a purpose dangerous to the public peace for carrying around bear spray - depends on the situation though.

Tasers less than 480mm in length are prohibited weapons, not restricted weapons.

[frizzlefry]

From the criminal code:
34. (1) Every one who is unlawfully assaulted without having provoked the assault is justified in repelling force by force if the force he uses is not intended to cause death or grievous bodily harm and is no more than is necessary to enable him to defend himself.

(2) Every one who is unlawfully assaulted and who causes death or grievous bodily harm in repelling the assault is justified if
(a) he causes it under reasonable apprehension of death or grievous bodily harm from the violence with which the assault was originally made or with which the assailant pursues his purposes; and
(b) he believes, on reasonable grounds, that he cannot otherwise preserve himself from death or grievous bodily harm.

Seems more reasonable than I thought actually. I'm sure kicking them in the head to stop them from continuing the attack would be ok...what are you supposed to? Keep knocking them down over and over?

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by ddduke


That's not the point.

What I'm saying is since self defense doesn't really count until you know what the incident is going to lead to, if someone stabbed you with a needle, then you got up and had a pocket knife and stabbed them, would that be okay?

Yes, it would probably be considered equal force. The problem is that in Canada, you're not allowed to stab him until after you take a HIV needle to the eye ball haha. The reason being, assuming no witnesses, is that the attacker will just claim you attacked first, or your life wasn't in danger, etc. etc. and then its a he said she said in court.

[frizzlefry]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt


Yes, it would probably be considered equal force. The problem is that in Canada, you're not allowed to stab him until after you take a HIV needle to the eye ball haha.

Not sure about that...according to the code if you have reasonable grounds to assume they are GOING to stab (possibly mortally wounding you) you then you can stab first to prevent that from happening....I think. Don't think two gang guys going at eachother would fall under that rule but I imagine a random attack/mugging would.
*edit* you are justified in causing death or grevious harm if "(a) he causes it under reasonable apprehension of death or grievous bodily harm from the violence with which the assault was originally made ;"or with which the assailant pursues his purposes
that last bit, does that mean that if the robber says "I'm going to stab you" it counts as "pursuing his purposes"?

[Hamann]

Originally posted by codetrap
Either way, I don't honestly give a shit. :dunno: If push came to shove, and I or my wife had to use it to defend ourselves or my daughter, you can be damned sure it'd be in the news, and I'd be setting a precedent in a very public trial

There is absolutely nothing I would not do in order to protect my daughter. As far as the legal aspect? Legal/illegal is a very hazy distinction until it's hashed out in the courts.

I feel the Same way, at the end of the day it's better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6

[89s1]

Originally posted by Mar
These assholes are stupid crazy. My pager alarm went off a few years ago and when I went to check it out, this crackhead was sitting in my driver's seat trying to start my car. The second I went to beat the life out of him he 100% tried to stab me with a screwdriver. He missed my face by about 3/4 of an inch.


I don't agree with rounding them up and doing whatever with them though, the main concern with these guys is rehabilitation because otherwise you're just going to be rounding up 100 new ones per day, it'll never end. It's more socioeconomically productive to rehabilitate them back into society than to simply get rid of them. Also if you let them make the choice for themselves to get clean, they have a much higher success rate than if you force them to do anything.

And the biggest thing is a lot of these guys have sever mental problems so they just can't understand the idea of getting clean, nor how to get to that point. They need a lot of help and unfortunately our taxes pay for that help.


Question one:

You honestly think that even 1 % of all we spend on jails is recouped by the upstanding citizens that come out the other end?

Question two:

Any luck biting your ear yet?

[Kloubek]

I find it interesting how much interpretation there is to what is considered reasonable force in these cases, and what situations are valid to use force, etc.

I'm pretty sure the laws were written vaguely on purpose.... so that a good lawyer is capable of getting most law-abiding citizens off on the event they injure or take the life of a serious attacker - yet, does not encourage the use of violence.

Judging by the stats, it appears to be working in keeping our violent crimes in Canada to a minimum.

Back on the topic at hand: This poor guy now has to wait around for however many weeks or months before he can take conclusive tests to ensure he did not contract any deadly diseases from this asshole. Must be particularly stressful.

[Sugarphreak]

....

[ddduke]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak


Think of any group... any group at all of people in the entire world who are dependent on charity. Does it encourage them to change their lifestyle, or do they adapt to the handouts and actually give way to worse social problems?



All the Indians in Canada.

[sr20s14zenki]

Would have been nice to put his head thru half the windows in the parkade.maybe even a few windshields? ;)

had I been in his situation I would make a mess of that crackhead. Had my family been near by he would be a dead crackhead. Anything threatening my family is grounds for death IMO. I keep a 2" wrench under the seat just for crazies like them. The guy wasn't very smart tho. If you see somebody committing a crime call from the safety of your car atleast. (safer).

[yellowsnow]

what weapons are we allowed to carry? nothing deadly obviously... but what about high velocity paint ball guns? flash grenades? :rofl:

[TorqueDog]

Originally posted by sr20s14zenki
had I been in his situation I would make a mess of that crackhead.Yeah, 'cause we're all fucking ninjas on the internet. I would have torn his beating heart from his chest and made him gaze upon it, while getting a colleague to say in his deepest voice ... "fatality".

You'd have had a needle broken off in your head just like this guy and been in the hospital.

[sr20s14zenki]

Originally posted by TorqueDog
Yeah, 'cause we're all fucking ninjas on the internet. I would have torn his beating heart from his chest and made him gaze upon it, while getting a colleague to say in his deepest voice ... "fatality".

You'd have had a needle broken off in your head just like this guy and been in the hospital. Nah I'd have called from inside my car ;). I agree it's tuff to say what would happen. That being said I don't go down easy or without a fight. Nobody knows until they are in that situation. When that fight or flight instinct kicks in who knows.

[broken_legs]

Rick Hansen :thumbsup:

Smart Guy. Makes a lot of sense on every issue I've ever heard him speak about.

Calgary police chief Hanson urges 'safe jails' for drug addicts, alcoholics who commit crimes

Read more: http://www.calgaryherald.com/health/Calgary+police+chief+Hanson+urges+safe+jails+drug+addicts+alcoholics+commit+crimes/4274957/story.html#ixzz1EqmDhgaW

Coles:
- You go to jail for petty crime caused by your drug addiction
- This type of crime takes a lot of police resources
- Most are repeat offenders
- If given option to go to safe jail and get treated, rather than the big house and ending up back on the street addicted again, most addicts would choose treatment.

[Canucks3322]

Rick Hanson is one person I'd much rather have as mayor than Nenshi.

[baygirl]

Originally posted by broken_legs

If given option to go to safe jail and get treated, rather than the big house and ending up back on the street addicted again, most addicts would choose treatment.
My sister was arrested several times and received probation, which just left her free to continue her crack habit. Finally a judge got fed up with her and gave her jail time. While there she received treatment for her addiction, and counselling for the issues that led to it. She has been clean for 5yrs, 4mths now.

[codetrap]

It appears I can get a few years jail time for even carrying a taser in canada. Nice. Gonna order me some "bear" spray instead.

[sr20s14zenki]

Originally posted by codetrap
It appears I can get a few years jail time for even carrying a taser in canada. Nice. Gonna order me some "bear" spray instead.

Well duh, this is canada, you arent allowed to defend yourself against the criminals....

Heres another tip, when confronted with a criminal....try playing dead and pissing yourself....they will leave you alone.

[frizzlefry]

Originally posted by codetrap
It appears I can get a few years jail time for even carrying a taser in canada. Nice. Gonna order me some "bear" spray instead.

collapsible baton. not restricted as far as I can find. I think the spring loaded ones are but the ones you can just "whip" to expand aren't. I think.

[Mar]

Originally posted by ddduke
That's not the point.

What I'm saying is since self defense doesn't really count until you know what the incident is going to lead to, if someone stabbed you with a needle, then you got up and had a pocket knife and stabbed them, would that be okay?
I'm assuming it would not because at that point you've already been stabbed, the weapon has been disabled and there's no threat of subsequent violence. You would just be escalating the situation by introducing more violence to the suspect. Had he been coming towards you with the needle and you could potentially save yourself from harm by using the knife then that seems acceptable.

At least from what I understand of it, but I'd probably stab him anyways.


Originally posted by 89s1
Question one:

You honestly think that even 1 % of all we spend on jails is recouped by the upstanding citizens that come out the other end?

Yes, I do. I know a lot of people in the social services systems. In most cases it's not about these people contributing to a positive percentile after getting clean, it's about the money saved by putting them down path A as opposed to path B. They may still be draining the economy but not nearly as badly as they could have been if ignored.

Originally posted by 89s1

Question two:

Any luck biting your ear yet?
I don't get it.

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
I agree, you can't just "round up" people, it goes against our charter of rights & freedoms. I would never support that.

You can however abstain from assistance, the only reason this type of people exist in such abundance is because bleeding-hearts want to "help" them. All they end up doing is making their habits and lifestyle sustainable.

You make a crack addicts life sustainable, the crack dealers suddenly grab hold of a solid income... that income is typically derived from theft and welfare, next thing that comes into play is organized crime. All this charity is leading to the biggest problems in our city, and the solution people come up with is to give more charity.

Think of any group... any group at all of people in the entire world who are dependent on charity. Does it encourage them to change their lifestyle, or do they adapt to the handouts and actually give way to worse social problems?

When faced with the hard choice of changing their habits or perishing, most will chose to change... in either case the lifestyle becomes unsustainable.


Now this is by no means a blanket statement; for those who cannot help themselves due to serve mental or physical disabilities I do support social assistance. I also believe in helping people out who are temporarily down on their luck, this is much different than people that are chronically living off a system of charity or welfare.
Fine but what percentage of people smoking crack on the street corner and trying to steal your car do you suspect are temporarily down on their luck or are otherwise mentally capable to understand the consequences? 0.1%? Less? Chances are if they're out on the streets and robbing you, they're mentally unfit and need help, my ex-girlfriend works with a lot of them.

Originally posted by sr20s14zenki
Had my family been near by he would be a dead crackhead. Anything threatening my family is grounds for death IMO. I keep a 2" wrench under the seat just for crazies like them.
This thinking is no better than the crackhead jacking the car.
a) Nothing is grounds for death, you psycho, which planet are you from? You can't just kill people you don't like.
b) A wrench? Really? You should be more concerned with deescalation and less concerned with violence towards other people. It's fine to use a weapon to protect yourself but not to smash someone with a wrench because they're trying to steal a car. Get real.

[codetrap]

Originally posted by Mar


This thinking is no better than the crackhead jacking the car.
a) Nothing is grounds for death, you psycho, which planet are you from? You can't just kill people you don't like.
b) A wrench? Really? You should be more concerned with deescalation and less concerned with violence towards other people. It's fine to use a weapon to protect yourself but not to smash someone with a wrench because they're trying to steal a car. Get real.

You missed sr20s14zenki's point completely. He said "ANYTHING THREATENING MY FAMILY".

I'm completely on board with sr20s14zenki on this. You threaten harm to my family, you'd best be prepared to take it all the way, because given a chance, I will. If the situation warrants it, there will be no warning, no talking, no attempts at deescalation. If that means I have to splatter some crackheads brains with my boken in my house, or destroy his vision with "dog spray" in a parkade and a good hard kick to the nuts to make sure he stays down till the cops get there.

No qualms at all. I'd have a smile on my lips and a song in my heart as I washed the crackheads blood off my shoes.

I honestly cannot imagine how any police officer would do anything differently when their family is at risk. If you don't think that a cop wouldn't put some intruder down in a heartbeat in their home that's threatening their children, then you're a fool.

[spike98]

Originally posted by frizzlefry


collapsible baton. not restricted as far as I can find. I think the spring loaded ones are but the ones you can just "whip" to expand aren't. I think.

They are, i baught one for myself and the now ex girlfriend. They made it through customs when i got them shipped.

They aren't spring loaded so i can't comment on those.

[sr20s14zenki]

You missed my point entirely. I wouldnt go and hit the guy with the wrench because he was stealing a car. IF i was in the position, and i was calling like that guy was, and got knocked down from behind, if given the chance to grab my weapon, his head is getting smashed, because he already tried to attempt harm to me. I wouldnt just go vigilante and walk up to the guy breaking into the car and beat him up.

Break into my house where my family is....you arent leaving alive if i have anything to do about it. Simple as that. Same thing if my family is in my vehicle with me, you threaten my family with harm, i will beat you until you dont move anymore, anything to ensure my own/family's survival.

Ill put my life on the line for my wife and child, and i hope the rest of you would do the same.

[ddduke]

Originally posted by frizzlefry


collapsible baton. not restricted as far as I can find. I think the spring loaded ones are but the ones you can just "whip" to expand aren't. I think.

It would be such a pain in the ass to carry. Just grab a pocket knife. I carry one almost always besides when I goto the club or dates.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[soiledunderwear]

Jail isn't the place for these people........ we should send them to Banff/Vancouver Island/California for rehab. Who knows they could be functioning members of society at some point.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[soiledunderwear]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak


You can't force somebody to go to rehab, if somebody wants to live this lifestyle then they have the freedom to do so.

Maybe if we gave them the option of going to an exotic location for rehab they would go and stop using dope. I would pay for that for sure.

[sr20s14zenki]

I think they are unfit to decide for themselves. They should be put in labour camps. You work hard, you clean up, you get food, paid, etc. You choose not to work, you are making the choice not to eat...and you will perish. Simple as that. Unfortunately the whole human rights thing doesnt allow for it, so we will be stuck with them, like a growing plague.

I doubt any of them will choose starvation over cleaning up.

[Mar]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak


If somebody is smoking crack & homeless as a result they are not down on their luck, they are only living that kind of lifestyle because they ultimately chose that path & people help them live that way. Providing any kind of charity to somebody smoking crack only makes it sustainable... the solution is not to provide charity, plain and simple.

When you go to a park or wildlife preserve what is the first warning sign you see? "DO NOT FEED THE WILDLIFE"

The reason is because if you do, they may become dependent on it and abandon the traditional food gathering/hunting they do in the wild; as a side effect, they hang around waiting for more food to be provided, even aggressively take it... when they don't get enough at a time they may become especially aggressive and hunt it down.

Everybody knows that if you don't feed the wildlife they won’t starve to death, they don't die off without your help; yet a very similar case could be made that it would be compassionate to feed them so they don't have to hunt or work so hard in the wild to survive.

Make it an unsustainable lifestyle and people living it will either be forced to adapt or perish... luckily people are far more intelligent than we give them credit for, so they will adapt.
That would be ideal but unfortunately not the case. Retardation is much less prevalent in wild life because those cases die off long before reaching maturity and being able to feed themselves. So not feeding them works because they have the mental capacity to find their own food and return to animalistic instincts.

By not giving the homeless any help and hoping they figure it out on their own I can guarantee you you will have one of 2 things.
a) they really will die because it has happened before, they just overdose or freeze to death right on our streets
b) they turn to crime and end up in jail which ends up costing us more money than drug rehabilitation would have

It's basically a cost benefit analysis, anything you do wtih them is going to cost tax money, you just have to follow the route that statistically sucks the least amount of money out of the economy. Ignoring them is too expensive.

[codetrap]

Originally posted by Mar
It's basically a cost benefit analysis, anything you do wtih them is going to cost tax money, you just have to follow the route that statistically sucks the least amount of money out of the economy. Ignoring them is too expensive.

http://images.businessweek.com/ss/06/02/mistakes/image/bullets.jpg

[Tomaz]

Originally posted by codetrap


http://images.businessweek.com/ss/06/02/mistakes/image/bullets.jpg


@ $0.20 per "pop', that's a good bang for the buck!

Really though, there is not much one could do other than making sure that future generations are raised correctly and taught how to function as contributing citizens in society. Beyond that, there is no true way of "removing" them from the world.

[msommers]

Originally posted by Hamann


... at the end of the day it's better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6

My thoughts exactly.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[Antonito]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak



Being that man... even retarded man... is exponentially more intelligent than animal, I would say that the mental capacity is not the issue. In fact, one of the great advantages man has, is he is able to put aside his instincts and follow logic and make rational decisions.

Therefore;
a) he will not freeze to death unless he chooses to.
b)If they turn to crime, they will likely go to jail and (as mentioned in this very thread) be much more likely to receive treatment and rehabilitation services because they will be a condition of the sentence.

a) You completely ignore the fact that mental instability/chemical dependance negates mans rationality. So in reality you will find a lot of dead junkies, there already are street people who freeze to death now. I don't know what their final thoughts were, but I highly doubt they were "I, Thomas J Crackhead, am now going to kill myself by exposure", it was more like "crackCrackcrackcrackCRACK...afuughghghg"

b) wonderful. I do enjoy the concept of having to wait for these people to be caught before they get any kind of help. Hopefully they get caught in the car theft/robbing vending machine stages and not the fucking-kill-you for change stage.

Even with the safety nets crime is mostly caused by desperate people who cannot make their lives work enough to go get a job and would rather commit crime. Now inflate that number of people exponentially by creating far more desperate people

You say look in other places in the world where there are no handouts? Yeah, good thinking. They are some of the worst places on earth. Go hang out in some slums in south america or africa, see how that works out for you with all the rational people

[Sugarphreak]

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[msommers]

You really need to evaluate WHY that person turned to drugs or alcohol in the first place. A large percentage of people on the street were forced there. Not everyone is a guy who partied too hard and is left with nothing.

My roommate works personally with a lot of addicts. It's fucking heartbreaking some of the shit some of these people have had to go through. I don't condone substance abuse but some are left with killing themselves or turning to hard drugs or alcohol. It's easy to see some loser and judge. Half the people commenting here try to make themselves sound like they're hard as fuck. I'd say walk a million in their shoes but I wouldn't wish that upon anyone.

[Mar]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak


a) Choosing to do crack is a choice, if it kills them as a result... they did it to themselves. Trying to protect them from themselves is about as rational as trying to put fences up on bridges to prevent people from choosing suicide.

b) You seem to be alluding to them not committing crimes right now... the only difference is we are supporting it. This leads to well-fed crack heads committing crimes like stabbing people in the forehead with a syringe..

Funny you mention Africa... a place that has been on the foreign aid payroll now for 60 years, isn't it a utopia yet?

There is a saying that the USA has the most effective weapon in the world to keep other countries down... Foreign Aid.

This is all hypothetical anyway, charity has become a major industry in this century with a popular agenda; the very nature of the concept of stopping charity and allowing choice of life is flawed because people will always chose to donate or give charity, because it makes them feel good about themselves. Now if only they could invent a machine that would allow suicide jumpers to fall infinitely...

Welcome back BTW ;)

Oh man, I don't mean to be hard on you but you definitely haven't had a lot interaction with the retarded. My aunt was retarded, she lived with my family my whole life, in turn gaining life skills needed to be a functional member of society and actually delivered the mail in the taxation centre for 30 years.

Where do you think she would have been without my parents as guardians? Right where she was before she moved in with us, sleeping on the couch all day, calling in sick to work every week, cat pissing all over the house, not doing shit. filling her face with cake until she was almost 400 pounds. Trust me, being 400 pounds is not a choice a mentally challenged individual can make.

Once she lived with us she (on her own) joined Weight Watchers, lost 128 pounds, joined Special Olympics and brought home the gold for Newfoundland. Then went on to become the national female athlete of the year for Special Olympics for 2008.

Now, in reference to the crackheads on our streets, couple retardation with being sexually molested by anyone whom has ever been close to you, being a human ashtray and self medicating your entire life. You cannot rationalize logic when this is the only things you've been taught in life. How can you make the decision that, unlike anyone in your past, someone at an employment agency may actually give you an honest break and help you out? No....crackcrackcrackcrack.....

EDIT - I just thought of something else. Think of it like a baby. If you put a baby on the counter next to a hot stove, you could say, "Okay, baby, don't you crawl across the stove because it's hot!" And you might think, Okay, once the baby feels the heat they'll stay away from the hot. No, the baby will fall on the burner and say, "Ow, this is hot! What do I do? I'll cry.......BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA........." While they smell their own meat sizzle.

[Mar]

Originally posted by Antonito
a) You completely ignore the fact that mental instability/chemical dependance negates mans rationality. So in reality you will find a lot of dead junkies, there already are street people who freeze to death now. I don't know what their final thoughts were, but I highly doubt they were "I, Thomas J Crackhead, am now going to kill myself by exposure", it was more like "crackCrackcrackcrackCRACK...afuughghghg"
I'm trying to decide if I'm going to keep my current signature or change it to this one! Damn, this is hilarious, one of the funniest posts I've read in a long time!

[Sugarphreak]

...

[Mar]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
2000 - 1296 Homeless
2002 - 1737 Homeless
2004 - 2597 Homeless
2006 - 3435 Homeless
2008 - 4060 Homeless

(I fully understand that not all of these people are addicted to drugs)

I mean how high do these numbers have to get before we acknowledge that this isn't working? How many people need to be threatened or stabbed with a fucking syringe before they start realizing that we are indirectly training people to be dependent on others like this, to support a lifestyle that shouldn't theoretically exist in the first place?

No way, that's cool. But you can't really look at static numbers as statistics, a homeless per capita would be much more accurate and I'd say you'll find it the same as it was 5-10 years ago. Also the government programs for helping them are getting better (though they're still shit) so the number registration is more accurate because more people are accepting help. Instead of 100 people being homeless in random areas and being untrackable statistically.

However my point still stands. If you've been mentally crushed and sexually violated your entire life then you start to believe you're only fit to OD and die. Who's going to help you? Nobody. You're worthless. Just do crack and die already. So instead of paying someone to take them to jail or clean their lifeless body off the sidewalk, place them in a morgue, maybe give them a burial and maybe incinerate them, it's much more cost effective to simply give them some sort of help (not change on the street, fuck that). Even if it's only temporary to get them clean for 6 months before they start again, the decrease in crime from this one individual alone could be worth it.

[Sugarphreak]

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[Canucks3322]

Simple solution...round them up and HELP them! One argument against this is they can only help themselves if they choose to...well that's fucking stupid. Of course they won't want to...because their minds are too fucked up on drugs!!!!!

They're not in their right mind and imo, it's up to us to force it upon them for their own good as well as the good of society. None of this small L liberal individual rights bullshit. These people truly have a desease, an illness, and they can't help themselves nor will they.

[Sugarphreak]

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[Canucks3322]

I should clarify....when I say help them I mean by first tying them up in a room until the drugs are out of the system. Like in Basketball Diaries...

[baygirl]

When an addict is ready is the only time they will accept help. Trying to force it on them does nothing. Been there, done that...

An addict has to want help. Telling them to choose between food/warm place to sleep and their next hit means they will be sleeping on the streets, hungry and stoned. They will do things most people would never consider to feed the habit. Rob a stranger? Why not? Steal from their parents and nearly destroy them financially and emotionally? Who cares? Not the addict. All that matters to them is where the next hit will come from. My sister's addiction nearly ruined my family, she knew it at the time and didn't give a damn. Now she can't even think about what she put us through. It was only when she landed in jail, and realised that was not where she wanted to be, did she accept help. And a big factor in her recovery is that she was surrounded by love and support when she got out. Unfortunately too many are released right back into the same environment they were in before, so the cycle just starts again.

[Mar]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
Here is the thing, I am not suggesting we just let people die... I am saying we should revamp the system and the way we approach the problem to give them a real choice in the matter.... giving them a sustainable way to keep doing drugs is wrong in my opinion.

If you removed the social network around downtown and suddenly they couldn't get free cloths, free meals or a place to sleep... and you offered it to them as a choice, participate in a rehab program away from danger, temptation and distraction with all the basic needs of life supplied.... or continue living on the street.

I honestly think it wouldn't take long for people to decide to join. Making the choice to give up the lifestyle on their own is one of the most important aspects IMO.

This isn't a new idea, I have a social worker friend in BC that works at a home that operates like this... they teach them how to cook, live and help them get work in exchange for them agreeing not to do drugs, take counseling & no outside contact. When they have a failure, it is mainly due to the fact they can leave and get all of the things the home offers for free at a charity, they then easily fall back into the lifestyle.

:thumbsup:

[frizzlefry]

Originally posted by ddduke


It would be such a pain in the ass to carry. Just grab a pocket knife. I carry one almost always besides when I goto the club or dates.

I would prefer the baton. Fits in your pocket and, if there is a struggle and the weapon is taken by your attacker, better to be hit than stabbed. The baton is a weapon designed to subdue, not kill. Which would look better if I "subdued" an attacker rather than cut them up.

[frizzlefry]

I would not say 'round them all up and put them in camps or shoot them. I understand that crackheads are that way due to a bad upbringing and a lot of other factors that make them a victim of circumstance. But, if one attacks or tries to rob me, I don't see how their poor, sad life is any reason for me not to bash their brains in. Their sob story does not trump my right to defend myself.

[Mar]

Originally posted by frizzlefry
I would not say 'round them all up and put them in camps or shoot them. I understand that crackheads are that way due to a bad upbringing and a lot of other factors that make them a victim of circumstance. But, if one attacks or tries to rob me, I don't see how their poor, sad life is any reason for me not to bash their brains in. Their sob story does not trump my right to defend myself.

Sure, defend yourself, but you don't have to kill anyone. Outside of the drugs these people could be really nice. Besides, there are people that love them and would be devastated by their death. And it's also possible they're just worthless crackheads with no family.

[CUG]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak


This isn't a new idea, No, but it's the God Damn best one out there. They could apply this to homelessness too. The homeless have it pretty good by their standards: DI for breakfast, Mustard seed for lunch, DI for supper. What, all you have to do is sleep somewhere warm for a few hours? I can see the logic there and the cyclical nature of it.