View Full Version : The truth about NATO and United States
broken_legs
03-21-2011, 10:57 PM
36:00 -38:00 Beautiful observations on how the media was a tool of the administration in the lead up to Yugoslavia
There CUG, you dont have to watch the whole thing now ;)
Heres Another spot for you, since we are talking about Libya in 6 other threads right now.
47:50
"Khadaffis sin, was that he nationalized the oil companies, and started spending the profits from the oil on the people in column B (middle class people), on things like reforestation, health and education, clinics"
Random FYI: Libya is/// was a Socialist Republic
57:50 - 59:30 This is what will happen to Libya
59:30 - 1:00:30 This applies to you and 911fever, and a few other flies on the chariot wheel.
1:01:30 - This is what just happened to Libya
1:06:15 - This is what will happen to Libya
Originally posted by CUG
This is a wicked video and from an educated and credible source.
GEzOgpMWnVs
Did you even listen to the closing statements with respect to Milosevic and the Serbs?
1:09:00 on. :)
"To say that these atrocities for the most part are contrivances and propaganda, is not to say that Milosovich and the serbs are blameless and that they're angels. I'm not saying that at all! I'm not saying that we even have to be fans of any one side. Regardless of what you think of those people, certainly you can see THAT THIS BOMBING IS A HORRIBLE THING"
Man that perfectly sums up my opinion on Libya.
I love this guy! You were so right CUG! :)
1:15:00 How to Pull Out: "Cease Fire" + "NATO Disbands"
Reserved for rebuttal to broken_legs horribly inept observation.
Edit: This is Parenti's bio:
http://www.michaelparenti.org/biography.html
Michael Parenti received his Ph.D. in political science from Yale University. He has taught at a number of colleges and universities, in the United States and abroad. Some of his writings have been translated into Arabic, Azeri, Bangla, Chinese, Dutch, French, German, Greek, Italian, Japanese, Korean, Persian, Polish, Portuguese, Russian, Serbian, Spanish, Swedish and Turkish.
broken_legs
03-21-2011, 11:16 PM
Originally posted by CUG
This is a wicked video and from an educated and credible source.
GEzOgpMWnVs
broken_legs
03-21-2011, 11:17 PM
And one more just so you have to read it again.
Originally posted by CUG
This is a wicked video and from an educated and credible source.
GEzOgpMWnVs
broken_legs
03-21-2011, 11:21 PM
"Go bomb your girlfriend, Tony Blair" :rofl:
Originally posted by CUG
This is a wicked video and from an educated and credible source.
GEzOgpMWnVs
This is a wicked video and from an educated and credible source. broken_dink, Konj is an example you should follow.
JordanAndrew
03-21-2011, 11:38 PM
Saving a spot as well for whatever. :D
broken_legs
03-21-2011, 11:42 PM
Originally posted by CUG
This is a wicked video and from an educated and credible source. broken_dink, Konj is an example you should follow.
The more attention your crusade against me brings to real issues, the better.
Thanks for the help. :)
The only real problem is that everything this guy is saying completely flies in the face of everything you argue on beyond.
Does that mean that you endorse his opinions?
ieuBkWHfCuc
TOMA is going to blow his load when he listens to this.
Originally posted by broken_legs
The more attention your crusade against me brings to real issues, the better.
Thanks for the help. :) My crusade is against illogical stupidity. If you feel you fall into that category, then I'd advise utilizing more a more logically sound approach in what you say, and the evidence you present.
Though you may not like my observations with respect to your illogical praxis', you'll be forever indebted to me for the revisions you will make when addressing these issues. Could you imagine having properly addressed and considered all elements of an issue, giving all of them sufficient scrutiny, and having an legitimately immovable position on the overall topic?
When you come to a conclusion properly, you will sound much more intelligent and rely less on logical fallacies for support.
Logical Fallacies:
1)Ad-Hominem: Personal attack on your opponent rather than an attack on opponents arguments.
2) Ad-Misericordiam: A false appeal to the emotions.
3) Post Hoc, Ergo Propter Hoc: Establishes a questionable cause and effect relationship between events, assuming that Y, followed X, therefore X must have caused Y. (I call that confusing proximity of action and causality. For instance: I cough, and you get sick, it's not necessarily so that I caused your sickness.)
4) Circular Arguments: "Well, TV is the devil, because TV is the devil."
5) False Analogy: Comparing two things that are not alike, or connecting ideas that are logically irrelevant.
6) Ad-populum: Manipulates the anticipated emotional reaction from an audience by appealing to VAGUE ideas that are important to the group (aka bandwagon appeal). If many people agree with a statement, it's truth is assumed, but never verified. The idea that the social conscience of an issue is the sole component of logical soundness.
7) Slippery Slope: The assumption that one event will inevitably lead to another more extreme event (without explanation)
8) False Opposites
9) Overgeneralization: The assumption that because one observation is valid in one instance, that similar observations must also be valid in all instances.
10) Oversimplification: Reduces complex issues to simplistic descriptions or conclusions.
I've routinely seen you and your company guilty of 1,2,3,6,9, and 10.
Edit: No, I don't agree that the United States is the cause of all chaos in the world.
Q: Do I believe the US and Co has a reason to support a Libyan revolution?
A: Yes, Ghaddaffi is violently attacking innocent people who want change, and any good humanist would stand up for those who cannot stand up for themselves. ;)
broken_legs
03-21-2011, 11:59 PM
Originally posted by CUG
Logical Fallacies:
1)Ad-Hominem: Personal attack on your opponent rather than an attack on opponents arguments.
2) Ad-Misericordiam: A false appeal to the emotions.
3) Post Hoc, Ergo Propter Hoc: Establishes a questionable cause and effect relationship between events, assuming that Y, followed X, therefore X must have caused Y. (I call that confusing proximity of action and causality. For instance: I cough, and you get sick, it's not necessarily so that I caused your sickness.)
4) Circular Arguments: "Well, TV is the devil, because TV is the devil."
5) False Analogy: Comparing two things that are not alike, or connecting ideas that are logically irrelevant.
6) Ad-populum: Manipulates the anticipated emotional reaction from an audience by appealing to VAGUE ideas that are important to the group (aka bandwagon appeal). If many people agree with a statement, it's truth is assumed, but never verified. The idea that the social conscience of an issue is the sole component of logical soundness.
7) Slippery Slope: The assumption that one event will inevitably lead to another more extreme event (without explanation)
8) False Opposites
9) Overgeneralization: The assumption that because one observation is valid in one instance, that similar observations must also be valid in all instances.
10) Oversimplification: Reduces complex issues to simplistic descriptions or conclusions.
How ironic you should accuse another of arguing fallacies.
Originally posted by broken_legs
How ironic you should accuse another of arguing fallacies. Your pride won't allow you to publicly thank me, or acknowledge how correct I am, but I trust you'll revise yourself appropriately. In turn, I think we'll see less illegitimate conspiracy theory, and I'll be thanked for my public service by others.
Great Video... thanks, hadn't seen it.
Oh come on Parenti, don't quote The European.
broken_legs
03-22-2011, 12:24 AM
Originally posted by CUG
Your pride won't allow you to publicly thank me, or acknowledge how correct I am, but I trust you'll revise yourself appropriately. In turn, I think we'll see less illegitimate conspiracy theory, and I'll be thanked for my public service by others.
I've already thanked you once. Must I do it again?
Originally posted by broken_legs
Thanks for the help. :)
Your work here is done. Beyond, and the rest of the interweb is in your debt. You may go now.
Originally posted by broken_legs
I've already thanked you once. Must I do it again?
Your work here is done. Beyond, and the rest of the interweb is in your debt. You may go now. Did you even listen to the closing statements with respect to Milosevic and the Serbs?
broken_legs
03-22-2011, 12:35 AM
Originally posted by CUG
Did you even listen to the closing statements with respect to Milosevic and the Serbs?
57:50 - 59:30 This is what will happen to Libya
59:30 - 1:00:30 This applies to you and 911fever, and a few other flies on the chariot wheel.
1:01:30 - This is what just happened to Libya
v2kai
03-22-2011, 12:48 AM
great post, great video. I will be sharing this.
Originally posted by v2kai
great post, great video. I will be sharing this.
:clap: :thumbsup:
broken_legs
03-22-2011, 12:54 AM
Originally posted by CUG
1:09:00 on. :)
"To say that these atrocities for the most part are contrivances and propaganda, is not to say that Milosovich and the serbs are blameless and that they're angels. I'm not saying that at all! I'm not saying that we even have to be fans of any one side. Regardless of what you think of those people, certainly you can see THAT THIS BOMBING IS A HORRIBLE THING"
Man that perfectly sums up my opinion on Libya.
I love this guy!
Originally posted by CUG
Did you even listen to the closing statements with respect to Milosevic and the Serbs?
If thats the only thing you extracted out of that video then you really are phony.
It makes for great press to accuse the west of being responsible for the entire world's problems; he's even in the business of it. He made some very compelling statements. I like that he's enjoying the fruits of this awful capitalist structure.
I sent this off to my poli-sci professor. I'd like to hear what she has to say on the video. It may seem counter-intuitive to you fine gentlemen, but unquestioning support for anything is a fools practice.
Originally posted by Konj
If thats the only thing you extracted out of that video then you really are phony. Don't be a clown. He spends an hour screaming about how unjust the Yugo deal is, building supporting pathos for the serbs and Milosevic, and closes out with that? Only a foolish hack wouldn't notice that. Shame on you.
broken_legs
03-22-2011, 01:05 AM
Originally posted by CUG
It makes for great press to accuse the west of being responsible for the entire world's problems; he's even in the business of it. He made some very compelling statements. I like that he's enjoying the fruits of this awful capitalist structure.
I sent this off to my poli-sci professor. I'd like to hear what she has to say on the video. It may seem counter-intuitive to you fine gentlemen, but unquestioning support for anything is a fools practice.
Don't be a clown. He spends an hour screaming about how unjust the Yugo deal is, building supporting pathos for the serbs and Milosevic, and closes out with that? Only a foolish hack wouldn't notice that. Shame on you.
I guess I'll be spending the rest of life writing to myself...
Mods? Is there a rule about being a sneaky prick?
EDIT:
CUG did the right thing. You sneaky fuck lol
Originally posted by CUG
It makes for great press to accuse the west of being responsible for the entire world's problems; he's even in the business of it. He made some very compelling statements. I like that he's enjoying the fruits of this awful capitalist structure.
I sent this off to my poli-sci professor. I'd like to hear what she has to say on the video. It may seem counter-intuitive to you fine gentlemen, but unquestioning support for anything is a fools practice.
Don't be a clown. He spends an hour screaming about how unjust the Yugo deal is, building supporting pathos for the serbs and Milosevic, and closes out with that? Only a foolish hack wouldn't notice that. Shame on you.
I get this feeling that you have never left the borders of North America or you never bothered to talk to any immigrants (possibly because of your imperialist set of mind limiting you to think that they are inferior to you). But the truth is, majority of the world HATES United States (ex: look at the number of people that clapped when Hugo Chavez was giving his speech at the UN, the reporter even said "what is shocking is the number of people that were clapping when Hugo Chavez said it stinks on Sulfur because Bush was on the podium). No one is accusing of West as being responsible for the entire world's problems? However, US has been accumulating its contribution to the world problems. Since you are so adamant, I will try and explain to you what this video was getting at. THIS VIDEO TRIES TO PAINT A PICTURE, USING YUGOSLAVIA AS AN EXAMPLE, OF WHY MAJORITY OF THE WORLDS POPULATION HATES THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND THAT IS BECAUSE OF THEIR FOREIGN POLICY!
Originally posted by broken_legs
I guess I'll be spending the rest of life writing to myself...
Mods? Is there a rule about being a sneaky prick?
Edit: Removed Link
LOL...what did you do that for lol... I just put you on ignore by clicking your link.
Originally posted by CUG
Don't be a clown. He spends an hour screaming about how unjust the Yugo deal is, building supporting pathos for the serbs and Milosevic, and closes out with that? Only a foolish hack wouldn't notice that. Shame on you.
Holy dimwit.... lol :facepalm:
So clouded with emotion and hate, you dont comprehend lol...
No surprise I guess, still face palm worthy lol.
Originally posted by Toma
LOL...what did you do that for lol... I just put you on ignore by clicking your link.
He didn't, Homeland Security switched the original id number of CUG to broken_legs.
broken_legs
03-22-2011, 01:26 AM
Originally posted by Toma
LOL...what did you do that for lol... I just put you on ignore by clicking your link.
He fixed it. He's like troll on crack tonight.
Broken_legs someone put you on my ignore list earlier on, like 20 minutes ago...???
broken_legs
03-22-2011, 01:31 AM
Originally posted by Konj
Broken_legs someone put you on my ignore list earlier on, like 20 minutes ago...???
IT WAS CUG!
He had a link in his signature that said "broken legs is right for once!" but the URL was a IGNORE user = ME
CUG, why you trying to cock block me bro?
Originally posted by broken_legs
I guess I'll be spending the rest of life writing to myself...
Mods? Is there a rule about being a sneaky prick?
CUGS SIGNATURE LINK (IGNORE USER ID 13226) (http://forums.beyond.ca/member2.php?s=&action=addlist&userlist=ignore&userid=13226)
:rofl: :rofl:
See, you're having difficulty with the fact that I don't accept the western world as being wholly evil. You want me to buy the whole package:
-The USA is entirely evil
-NATO is entirely evil
-White westerners oppress all non-white non-westerners
-Every military action on the part of western countries is a war crime
You see me agreeing with some of the points in a speech, and then deduct that I agree with everything you're saying, then, you put it in your signature :rofl:. I don't think I could have been any softer with you when earlier, I exposed you as a bandwagoning armchair activist.
Your lack of experience and education won't allow you to identify someone with a dynamic political perspective. You believe that if someone subscribes to one belief on one issue, that they should subscribe to the totality of an idea, lending credit to my assessment of your illogicality even further.
There are events and occurrences that I absolutely detest; actions of the United States, Canada, and the rest of the United Nations that are clear contraventions of what our countries "stand" for. Conversely, there are many military actions that will have my support. Your inability to understand that concept has drawn my attention to you like a hungry fly to your verbose shit.
Is your trio of single-minded individuals worthy of being heard? Absolutely, and I wouldn't have it any other way, but your errors in logic and comprehension will be shit on worse than a window ledge in New York.
I apologize if I wasn't clearer with you earlier, my fault, but if there is anything I can do to get you to make being smarter and more logical a priority, please, let me know. :)
broken_legs
03-22-2011, 02:11 AM
Originally posted by CUG
You see me agreeing with some of the points in a speech, and then deduct that I agree with everything you're saying, then, you put it in your signature :rofl:.
Actually you didn't agree with a single point from the video, you 100% completely endorsed the entire thing, and the speaker whole heartedly. Lets take a look at what you wrote again:
Originally posted by CUG
This is a wicked video and from an educated and credible source.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEzOgpMWnVs
One can only assume you agree with not all, but most of what the speaker is saying.
No where have I described what he actually says, you are describing it for everyone else and even endorsing it.
Originally posted by CUG
blah blah blah
catchy phrase here, ad-hom there
blah blah blah
no actual content - no description of what my actual position on anything is ever, just disagreeing with everyone else.
blahblah blah *ad-hom. Accusations of other people using fallacies.
blah blah blah Strawman. Sly slithering away from real topic.
blah blah blah
Don't want to actually take a position myself, because that might open me up to being wrong - so i'll just take the easy way out and make fun of everyone else.
blah blah blah blah ad-hom tired use of expletives trying to sound funny
/CUG
Originally posted by broken_legs
Actually you didn't agree with a single point from the video, you 100% completely endorsed the entire thing, and the speaker whole heartedly. Lets take a look at what you wrote again:
One can only assume you agree with not all, but most of what the speaker is saying.
No where have I described what he actually says, you are describing it for everyone else and even endorsing it.
Originally posted by CUG
:rofl: :rofl:
See, you're having difficulty with the fact that I don't accept the western world as being wholly evil. You want me to buy the whole package:
-The USA is entirely evil
-NATO is entirely evil
-White westerners oppress all non-white non-westerners
-Every military action on the part of western countries is a war crime
You see me agreeing with some of the points in a speech, and then deduct that I agree with everything you're saying, then, you put it in your signature :rofl:. I don't think I could have been any softer with you when earlier, I exposed you as a bandwagoning armchair activist.
Your lack of experience and education won't allow you to identify someone with a dynamic political perspective. You believe that if someone subscribes to one belief on one issue, that they should subscribe to the totality of an idea, lending credit to my assessment of your illogicality even further.
There are events and occurrences that I absolutely detest; actions of the United States, Canada, and the rest of the United Nations that are clear contraventions of what our countries "stand" for. Conversely, there are many military actions that will have my support. Your inability to understand that concept has drawn my attention to you like a hungry fly to your verbose shit.
Is your trio of single-minded individuals worthy of being heard? Absolutely, and I wouldn't have it any other way, but your errors in logic and comprehension will be shit on worse than a window ledge in New York.
I apologize if I wasn't clearer with you earlier, my fault, but if there is anything I can do to get you to make being smarter and more logical a priority, please, let me know. :)
You will educate yourself. Come to Jesus.
broken_legs
03-22-2011, 02:21 AM
Originally posted by CUG
You will educate yourself. Come to Jesus.
http://images1.memegenerator.net/ImageMacro/5737646/Come-at-me-bro.jpg
So you're aware, I made that supporting comment less than 3 minutes into watching the video, where he described the ABC's of class structure, and after looking into his CV. I still support much of what is said in that video. That doesn't provide logical grounds to assume I agree with all of it, or anything you've said. How is that not sensible to you?
broken_legs
03-22-2011, 02:39 AM
Originally posted by CUG
So you're aware, I made that supporting comment less than 3 minutes into watching the video, where he described the ABC's of class structure, and after looking into his CV. I still support much of what is said in that video. That doesn't provide logical grounds to assume I agree with all of it, or anything you've said. How is that not sensible to you?
So what you're saying is, that now, after 2 pages of trying to discredit me, you have finally watched the first 3 minutes of the video?
You didn't make any supporting comments on the video anywhere unless we are to believe a biography with no comments is you supporting various ideas and policies.
Stop lying. You're slipping.
Originally posted by CUG
Reserved for rebuttal to broken_legs horribly inept observation.
Edit: This is Parenti's bio:
http://www.michaelparenti.org/biography.html
Michael Parenti received his Ph.D. in political science from Yale University. He has taught at a number of colleges and universities, in the United States and abroad. Some of his writings have been translated into Arabic, Azeri, Bangla, Chinese, Dutch, French, German, Greek, Italian, Japanese, Korean, Persian, Polish, Portuguese, Russian, Serbian, Spanish, Swedish and Turkish.
Originally posted by CUG
This is a wicked video and from an educated and credible source. broken_dink, Konj is an example you should follow.
Hakkola
03-22-2011, 02:41 AM
This section has been awesome lately, late night beyond is highly entertaining.
Originally posted by broken_legs
So what you're saying is, that now, after 2 pages of trying to discredit me, you have finally watched the first 3 minutes of the video?
You didn't make any supporting comments on the video anywhere unless we are to believe a biography with no comments is you supporting various ideas and policies.
Stop lying. You're slipping.
Nope, I'm saying I agreed with certain points in the speech. I commented on his credibility prior to watching the video, and after three minutes of watching it, said it was an awesome video. It's really that simple.
Do you see the straws you're grasping at to build credibility? While it may appear to an idiot that you're making a damning point by calling me a "liar", you act and sound like a desperate and uneducated idiot. No one with an ounce of sound logic will buy into your methods.
You're the same type of person who demands instantaneous information, and believes that if a person doesn't submit to your urgent demands, they are unable to prove their point, and therefore you win.
It's one of those "when did I say that, when did I say that, oh you can't tell me a date and a time? yeah that's what I thought" situations. I pity your friends. :rofl: What an idiot. Read my earlier post.
broken_legs
03-22-2011, 03:40 AM
Originally posted by CUG
blah blah blah *backpedalling
blah blah blah *ad-hom, ad-hom
blah blah blah * ridicule
blah blah blah ad-hom, ridicule, etc...
I remember when I first learned about fallacies in highschool! Man I was so excited that I internet hacked into the local BBS on my 14.4 modem, played some USURPER for a bit, then forgot what I was so excited about and went to bed.
*yawn
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