Are Desktops Dead??? [Archive] - Beyond.ca - Car Forums

alloroc

03-26-2011, 12:29 PM

Originally posted by taemo
no, the advantage of desktop is it's upgradeable.

I am not sure I buy that.

I have been using computers since 1980 (TRS80 Model III) and Have owned my own computer since 1982 (Commodore 64). I do agree that for a while - when the 236, 386, 486 intel processors where out yes computers were very upgradeable. But ever since the second generation pentium - about 1998 if you bought a top of the line desktop with all the best bells and whistles of the day it lasted long enough that it bypassed its upgrade window.

This computer for instance is a 2001 Athlon 1800+ with a good graphics card for the day radeon 7000 ve. and I could use it to play most games out there with reasonable frame rates until three or so years ago. Well three years ago about the only thing that I could upgrade without a complete swap was the case and power supply and even then I probably would have swapped the power supply out.

I will admit that I did add a larger internal HDD which to be honest is almost never used because I normally store movies and music etc on a remote HDD.

alloroc

03-26-2011, 12:37 PM

Originally posted by A790
I'd like to see a laptop provide what my desktop does.

1 TB 7200rpm HD?
128GB SSD?
8GB 1600DDR3 Ram?
2 x 24" screens?

I don't think so.

$1400 All you need is the extra monitors.

Operating System Genuine Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit
CPU Intel® Core™ i7 Processor 740QM 1.73GHz Quad-Core
Chipset Mobile Intel® HM55 Express Chipset
Main Memory 8GB DDR3 1333 MHz up to 8GB (Intel® i7-720QM / i7-740QM / i7-820QM platform)

Display 17.3" Full HD (1920x1080) LED Color-Shine (Glare-type)
Video Graphics NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 460M, with 1.5GB GDDR5 VRAM

Hard Drive 1TB (500GBx2) 7200rpm SATA
Dual HDD
Optical Drive Super Multi DVD drive
Card Reader 8 in 1 card reader SDXC, MMC, MS, MS-Pro, MS-Duo
Video Camera 2.0 Mega Pixel web camera

Fax / Modem / LAN / WLAN Integrated 802.11 b/g/n
Built-in Bluetooth™ V2.1+EDR
10/100/1000

Interface 1 x Microphone-in jack
1 x Headphone-out jack
1 x USB 3.0 ports
3 x USB 2.0 ports
1 x RJ45 LAN Jack for LAN insert
1 x HDMI
Audio Built-in speaker and microphone
Subwoofer
EAX Advanced HD 5.0
THX TruStudio

http://images.nvidia.com/products/geforce_gtx_460/GeForce_GTX_460_med_bracket.png

taemo

03-26-2011, 12:42 PM

^ true
that was the case when they transitioned from IDE to SATA and AGP to PCI-E

but even spending 700$ right now will build you a decent gaming rig that will be upgradeable probably for the next 3 years, whereas a new laptop today will be outdated in less than 2 years and you cannot upgrade it easily.

I spent 1200$ on a dell xps1330 3 years ago w/ 8400GS.
I build a E8400 C2D rig 4 years ago and I've upgraded the PSU once and the GPU twice already.

atleast 2 more years before I consider moving to i5 or i7

ZEDGE

03-26-2011, 12:48 PM

Originally posted by alloroc

$1400 All you need is the extra monitors.

Operating System Genuine Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit
CPU Intel® Core™ i7 Processor 740QM 1.73GHz Quad-Core
Chipset Mobile Intel® HM55 Express Chipset
Main Memory 8GB DDR3 1333 MHz up to 8GB (Intel® i7-720QM / i7-740QM / i7-820QM platform)

Display 17.3" Full HD (1920x1080) LED Color-Shine (Glare-type)
Video Graphics NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 460M, with 1.5GB GDDR5 VRAM

Hard Drive 1TB (500GBx2) 7200rpm SATA
Dual HDD
Optical Drive Super Multi DVD drive
Card Reader 8 in 1 card reader SDXC, MMC, MS, MS-Pro, MS-Duo
Video Camera 2.0 Mega Pixel web camera

Fax / Modem / LAN / WLAN Integrated 802.11 b/g/n
Built-in Bluetooth™ V2.1+EDR
10/100/1000

Interface 1 x Microphone-in jack
1 x Headphone-out jack
1 x USB 3.0 ports
3 x USB 2.0 ports
1 x RJ45 LAN Jack for LAN insert
1 x HDMI
Audio Built-in speaker and microphone
Subwoofer
EAX Advanced HD 5.0
THX TruStudio

http://images.nvidia.com/products/geforce_gtx_460/GeForce_GTX_460_med_bracket.png

It would be a frosty day in hell that I would pay that for a laptop. I could build two desktop pcs for that price that would last longer and be alot more future proof.

alloroc

03-26-2011, 12:49 PM

Originally posted by taemo
^ true
that was the case when they transitioned from IDE to SATA and AGP to PCI-E

atleast 2 more years before I consider moving to i5 or i7

My point is that in 2 years the i7 will be obsolete.

alloroc

03-26-2011, 12:52 PM

Originally posted by ZEDGE

It would be a frosty day in hell that I would pay that for a laptop. I could build two desktop pcs for that price that would last longer and be alot more future proof.

Cool this is the type of answer I was looking for. I am looking to upgrade my PC and I have been so out of it for so long I need informed feedback.

I do have two questions ...
You do have a laptop in addition to the desktop right?
What is the cost of the laptop and the desktop added together when bought new?

sputnik

03-26-2011, 12:53 PM

Originally posted by alloroc

My point is that in 2 years the i7 will be obsolete.

EOL yes.

Obsolete no.

I am still gaming on a Core2 Duo just fine.

These days most of the horsepower is required on the GPU and less and less on the CPU.

alloroc

03-26-2011, 12:55 PM

oops

Can you not swap out a gpu on the new laptops?

Guillermo

03-26-2011, 12:57 PM

i've got a lenovo laptop that I just plug into docks at home and work that are connected to lcd monitors, keybaords, mice, etc. so it "feels" like a desktop, but it totally portable and i can bring it anywhere

WaR-BirD

03-26-2011, 12:58 PM

I still use my desktop all the time, it's cheaper since I can buy a new desktop and just keep the same LCD monitor, plus a laptop with my specs will cost twice as much.

msommers

03-26-2011, 01:04 PM

Personally, I'd rather get a 17" laptop and add on a monitor (like I have now). Unless you're a serious gamer or film editor who really desires the latest technology out there (I mean you're doing it now so it's not really a need per se), I don't understand why you would want a desktop. Even then, there has to be a laptop out right now that can satisfy those needs.

I've had my laptop for over 3 years now and have been thinking about upgrading for awhile, strictly for photo editing reasons because it could be faster. Mind you, my specs are a centrino duo 1.8Gz, 1Gb of ram, 60Gb HD with a 128mb video card! I run another monitor when photo editing, have a couple hard drives hooked up to a powered hub with one of the best sound systems available for a office, yet it still works fine albeit could be faster.

For the vast majority of users out there, a laptop will do everything you want it to and have a portability option. What percentage are serious gamers, film editors or editing massive size photos?

Desktops dead? No. But I think laptops will eventually start taking over the non-corporate crowd because desktops will likely always be cheaper.

A790

03-26-2011, 01:05 PM

msommers

03-26-2011, 01:09 PM

Originally posted by A790

Slower RAM, processor, and graphics card. A decent laptop, for sure, but my desktop will walk all over it.

It should, considering it's $400 more...

Originally posted by A790
I just bought a $1,800 system

A790

03-26-2011, 01:15 PM

Originally posted by msommers
It should, considering it's $400 more...

$1,800 also included new keyboard/mouse combo ($120), not to mention the price premium I paid for the SSD.

AE92_TreunoSC

03-26-2011, 01:17 PM

Do you guys remove the battery for home use? or leave them plugged in 24/7 with the battery?

I'm not familiar with laptop batteries, but I'm anal with my tools and devices for battery charge times and usage.

I know of many friends with dead batteries that cost 200$++ and its usually not worth replacing them after 3 years of use.

alloroc

03-26-2011, 01:18 PM

For $1800 you can get a laptop with 3d capability including a 3d screen.

ZEDGE

03-26-2011, 01:19 PM

Originally posted by alloroc

Cool this is the type of answer I was looking for. I am looking to upgrade my PC and I have been so out of it for so long I need informed feedback.

I do have two questions ...
You do have a laptop in addition to the desktop right?
What is the cost of the laptop and the desktop added together when bought new?

Don't have a laptop. If you have a decent desktop for gaming etc, a cheap $300-400 laptop would be fine for surfing, email etc if you really wanted one.

derpderp

03-26-2011, 01:43 PM

It really all depends what you want from your computer. A desktop with all the fixings can defiantly out preform a laptop of the same value. Additionally I wouldn't want a laptop that is capable of gaming and high performance multi-media because they are heavy and make for a really sore neck/back carrying them around.

Desktop are also pretty awesome if you want to set up a home network and have everything in the house stored in one central location.

For majority of computer users though a laptop does just fine.

Khyron

03-26-2011, 04:34 PM

My laptop doesn't need to run games, so an old Dell 510 can can last 5-6 years. I think mine was 300 bucks.

I'd like to see a desktop beat the desktop I just built for games, even for double the money.

Sandy i5 2500k 3.3 running at 4.0 with a cheap 20 cooler.
850W power
GTX 570 1280 ram
4G 1600 dual chan
2mn 27 monitor

Expansion open for a 2nd 570 when needed.

It's like a phone and a tablet, depending on what you do, both have their place. If I was a student in a dorm I'd have a beefy laptop and that's it.

A790

03-26-2011, 04:37 PM

Originally posted by Khyron
My laptop doesn't need to run games, so an old Dell 510 can can last 5-6 years. I think mine was 300 bucks.

I'd like to see a desktop beat the desktop I just built for games, even for double the money.

Sandy i5 2500k 3.3 running at 4.0 with a cheap 20 cooler.
850W power
GTX 570 1280 ram
4G 1600 dual chan
2mn 27 monitor

Expansion open for a 2nd 570 when needed.

It's like a phone and a tablet, depending on what you do, both have their place. If I was a student in a dorm I'd have a beefy laptop and that's it.
You mean laptop beat those specs?

Hakkola

03-26-2011, 04:58 PM

This is what I've got
http://reviews.cnet.com/laptops/asus-g73jh-b1-core/4507-3121_7-34175925.html?tag=mncolBtm;rnav

with this mouse http://www.maximumpc.com/article/reviews/worldexclusive_review_rat7_best_gaming_mouse_ever_0

I'm pretty happy with it.

Vagabond142

03-26-2011, 05:00 PM

Don't forget, ITX and micro-ATX gaming builds are very viable choices these days if you need mobility with your desktop.

http://i1-gadgets.softpedia-static.com/images/news/Silverstone-and-Gigabyte-Paired-in-an-Impressive-Mini-ITX-Gaming-PC-Build-2.jpg

Also, I'm very much a desktop user... the reason being that I really don't see much point in having a laptop you're going to spend $1500 on, and not even be able to user-service it. If ANYTHING on a laptop breaks, it's at least a couple of days up to a couple of MONTHS or longer without your computer. Whereas with a desktop, if anything breaks, pop down to your friendly neighborhood computer store, bim-bam-boom, computer is up and running again.

Also, in terms of pure power, a desktop will always win out. It's a simple fact of space and available power. A laptop will be limited to around 600 watts MAX, and that's on a high end one with lots of cooling. A PC, as long as it has the space and airflow, is technically unlimited, although the highest you can go these days is around 1200 watts.

So no, desktops are not even CLOSE to being dead, at least for gamers.

For business or home office... that's a debate for another day.

tictactoe2004

03-26-2011, 05:04 PM

Desktops > Laptops for everything but portability.

Cheaper parts, easier to repair, easier to upgrade, more powerful, the list goes on and on.

That being said I'm not your typical consumer, most people don't care about triple/quad screens or Triple screen 3D, I do.

In fact, I can't even find a laptop that will run my new racing simulator... is there even such a thing as a laptop that can run triple 3d screens at a good frame rate?

Hakkola

03-26-2011, 05:05 PM

I've taken my laptop pretty much completely apart and I can add an extra 8gb of ram for a total of 16, I'm sure there are other things I can change/add as well.

Takes much longer than with a pc but that's ok.

alloroc

03-26-2011, 05:13 PM

As I posted originally - I know that you can build a faster desktop.

That wasn't my question.

Let me put it a different way ..

Are the new laptops 'fast enough' that 80%-90% of users out there could use one for everything and do away with the desktop?

Kg810

03-26-2011, 05:19 PM

Title should be changed to "Are Larger Laptops Dead???"

IMO, desktops won't be replaced. On the portability side of things, larger laptops (14inch +) will probably be phased out with the newer generations of tablets and 13.3 inch and below laptops.

Desktops will always remain more bang for your buck, compared to "equivalent" laptops. And even then, a desktop comparable laptop seems so utterly pointless with today's true portable options.

I personally wouldn't go larger than 13.3 for a laptop and would much rather prefer a 11.6 inch form. I.E - Samsung 11.6 9 Series and MacBook Air 11.6

Edit -

To answer the above post, yes.

For some one who isn't a PC gamer, who doesn't need the best performance, and who won't upgrade in the future, a laptop will suffice for everyday tasks.

So going to class, going on FB, emails, doing some office work, internet, and other similar tasks can be done with a laptop.

alloroc

03-26-2011, 05:21 PM

schocker

03-26-2011, 05:25 PM

I just hate using laptops so i have always stuck with desktops and will be building a new one in the summer probably as this current one is three years old.

alloroc

03-26-2011, 05:34 PM

Originally posted by Hakkola
This is what I've got
http://reviews.cnet.com/laptops/asus-g73jh-b1-core/4507-3121_7-34175925.html?tag=mncolBtm;rnav

with this mouse http://www.maximumpc.com/article/reviews/worldexclusive_review_rat7_best_gaming_mouse_ever_0

I'm pretty happy with it.

Do you play games with it?

If so what games and what is the frame rate?

Chandler_Racing

03-26-2011, 05:43 PM

Originally posted by AE92_TreunoSC
I don't know any gamer that prefers their crammed laptop keyboard to a full backlit keyboard with macros.

Also a 21"+ screen is beneficial.

Multiple hard drives is great.

I don't even want a laptop, I suppose I could use it for network gaming, but even then I'd prefer to bring my big pc.

Laptops are mobile, thats the point, gamer's don't have that super high on their list.

I'm with you to a point.

I run this laptop here: http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/PID-MX30461(ME).aspx

While at home, I run an HDMI cable to a 27" monitor and an external mechanical gaming keyboard. However, even with the 17" frame, I'd much rather bring the laptop over to a buddies than a full on gaming desktop.

I get a constant ~95FPS in Blacks Ops which is pretty solid in my books.

alloroc

03-26-2011, 05:49 PM

Originally posted by Chandler_Racing

I'm with you to a point.

I run this laptop here: http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/PID-MX30461(ME).aspx

While at home, I run an HDMI cable to a 27" monitor and an external mechanical gaming keyboard. However, even with the 17" frame, I'd much rather bring the laptop over to a buddies than a full on gaming desktop.

I get a constant ~95FPS in Blacks Ops which is pretty solid in my books.

95 is pretty good considering the hi-def broadcast standard is 24 fps.

I was looking at the 15" version of the same machine

Weapon_R

03-26-2011, 05:56 PM

Depends what you need. Desktops are dead to me but I use my computers mainly for everyday tasks. If I needed a gaming machine, I'd never want to play on a laptop.

natejj

03-26-2011, 06:31 PM

Desktops are still, and will be the kings of gaming for a while. Nothing beats sinking into my giant office chair in front of my 23" monitor and playing on an external mouse and keyboard. I have a laptop that runs games as well, but it's not nearly as much as fun to game on.

Khyron

03-26-2011, 08:05 PM

Originally posted by alloroc

How much without the monitor?

1400 with BR burner, os ssd and data/games/porn drive

Hakkola

03-26-2011, 10:10 PM

Originally posted by alloroc

Do you play games with it?

If so what games and what is the frame rate?

Just Mass Effect 2, BF Bad Company 2, Eve Online, I did once through on a bunch of other games when I first got it as well. I've never checked the frame rates, but they've always been good which is why I never checked them.

alloroc

03-26-2011, 10:11 PM

Originally posted by natejj
Desktops are still, and will be the kings of gaming for a while. Nothing beats sinking into my giant office chair in front of my 23" monitor and playing on an external mouse and keyboard. I have a laptop that runs games as well, but it's not nearly as much as fun to game on.

Well with a laptop you could plug it into the 60" tv in the living room and sit back in the lazy boy with a lap desk and PnP the hockey game in the corner at the same time.

alloroc

03-26-2011, 10:13 PM

Just an FYI

I have no preference either way I'm just playing devils advocate to the desktop because no one else is.

Very interesting conversation thus far :thumbsup:

Sasuke_Kensai

03-26-2011, 10:29 PM

Originally posted by natejj
Desktops are still, and will be the kings of gaming for a while. Nothing beats sinking into my giant office chair in front of my 23" monitor and playing on an external mouse and keyboard. I have a laptop that runs games as well, but it's not nearly as much as fun to game on.

This is what does it for me. I can't enjoy anything nearly as much on my laptop - even if it were as powerful, it's just not as comfortable even in the same chair. The screen is smaller, speakers aren't up to snuff, keyboard is too small - everything about the desktop is easier to customize for the user-machine interface.

msommers

03-26-2011, 10:43 PM

Speakers are basically irrelevant for a desktop vs. laptop comparison. I have Focal XS 2.1 speakers and they'll blow away any other speaker for music (not movies likely b/c not a 5.1 system). Again, my laptop is 3 years old. Keyboard and mouse can both be wireless and external. Screen size, fair argument. It just means one screen won't be as big as the other if you're running dual.

I think it really boils down to wanting the best performance/dollar or portability. Laptops can come with SSD and use 3.0 USB connection to external hard drives for data storage, play 1080p movies, run any game available at adequate settings and run heavy programs. There are many laptops available that are no slouches but will cost more. Such is life.

Q-TIP

03-26-2011, 10:53 PM

I think you guys are all forgetting that a laptop can be left closed and external screens/mice/keyboards can be attached giving the ergonomic advantages of the desktop with the possibility of moving the computer around easily on an occasional basis.

I have a desktop that was pretty good 4 years ago when I bought it but ever since I got my first laptop the amount I use it has dropped like a rock. I don't game on a computer because my living room couch is a hell of a lot more comfy than my office chair and I generally like to hang out with humans in the flesh rather than strictly over the internet.

In 2008 Laptops comprised 64% of all computers sold to consumers with that spread projected at 80% by 2012. The people who generally comment on a post like this are the people that have a vested interest in computer performance. I personally (and apparently the majority of the population) haven't given two shits about the performance of my computer for a long time. My i7 laptop runs IronCad, AutoCad and Solidworks well enough that I don't really need anything faster. Hell with the processor I have I haven't even felt the bug to upgrade to something better when rendering with Keyshot.

To be honest, I don't even have most of my software even installed on my desktop. I have one laptop connected to my TV downstairs with a wireless keyboard that has a touchpad because it fits in my AV cabinet better than a desktop and another laptop I work on all the time. My desktop hasn't been switched on in over 6 months.

The desktop is not dead, but from a consumer aspect it will be very soon. High end gamers and corporations will continue using them for a while longer but eventually cloud based computing will take over the corporate environment. At that point the days of the desktop are numbered.

Mibz

03-26-2011, 10:57 PM

Originally posted by Q-TIP
The desktop is not dead, but from a consumer aspect it will be very soon. High end gamers and corporations will continue using them for a while longer but eventually cloud based computing will take over the corporate environment. This pretty much sums it up for me. Netbooks will flood the consumer market, enterprise will switch to VDI and desktops will become a niche device reserved for gamers and small businesses.

Kg810

03-26-2011, 11:41 PM

The question that I always have to ask is how often are you pro-laptop users moving your desktop-equivalent laptops around?

I'm not talking about casual laptops that are lugged around the sofa when watching TV or something.

All these laptop users keep saying how powerful their laptops are and that they -can- move it around, but really, how often is that brought into play?

I asked this in previous discussions about desktop vs laptops, what's the percentage of a laptop user actually taking the laptop out of their house?

I bet the guys using a laptop as a desktop replacement don't even bring their laptop outside of their homes more than 5% of the year, so approx less than 20 days out of the year.

I much rather prefer the options to upgrade, clean, fix and repair my desktop at ease than to have the option to move it around 18-20 days of the year.

Having the option to equip 10+ fans, real advertised GPU/CPU performance (i'm talking about how laptops get watered down GPU/CPU since they get the mobile versions), kick-ass CPU coolers, radiators, etc is fantastic. If you are DIY guy you must build your own PC for the satisfaction it gives you. Having the ability to do these things not only is much more enjoyable if you are a DIY guy, you are prolonging the life of your system.

Heat and dust are huge factors in degrading a system and that's why I would never buy a laptop as a desktop replacement. Your internal parts are just sitting there cooking in 60c - 80c average and in some cases upwards of 100c-115c.

My desktop is a 4.0ghz i7-920 that runs at 33c-39c (depending on room temp). My two 5870s run at 38c idle. So to me, laptop users are spending a good chunk of money to be on par with desktop performance but their parts are undergoing much more scrutiny than desktops and will definitely die faster than a desktop.

So honestly, the way I see it is, users that are replacing their gaming desktop with a on par laptop are:

- paying more in terms of price / performance (less bang for your buck)
- paying more for a small portability luxury
- at risk of having parts fail faster
- at a higher risk of having their system stolen than a desktop user
- paying more for less options such as upgrading and system maintenance
- have a tougher time reselling and salvaging parts if they decide to sell or if the system fails

Q-TIP

03-27-2011, 12:36 AM

Originally posted by Kg810
The question that I always have to ask is how often are you pro-laptop users moving your desktop-equivalent laptops around?

I'm not talking about casual laptops that are lugged around the sofa when watching TV or something.

All these laptop users keep saying how powerful their laptops are and that they -can- move it around, but really, how often is that brought into play?

I asked this in previous discussions about desktop vs laptops, what's the percentage of a laptop user actually taking the laptop out of their house?

I bet the guys using a laptop as a desktop replacement don't even bring their laptop outside of their homes more than 5% of the year, so approx less than 20 days out of the year.

I much rather prefer the options to upgrade, clean, fix and repair my desktop at ease than to have the option to move it around 18-20 days of the year.

Having the option to equip 10+ fans, real advertised GPU/CPU performance (i'm talking about how laptops get watered down GPU/CPU since they get the mobile versions), kick-ass CPU coolers, radiators, etc is fantastic. If you are DIY guy you must build your own PC for the satisfaction it gives you. Having the ability to do these things not only is much more enjoyable if you are a DIY guy, you are prolonging the life of your system.

Heat and dust are huge factors in degrading a system and that's why I would never buy a laptop as a desktop replacement. Your internal parts are just sitting there cooking in 60c - 80c average and in some cases upwards of 100c-115c.

My desktop is a 4.0ghz i7-920 that runs at 33c-39c (depending on room temp). My two 5870s run at 38c idle. So to me, laptop users are spending a good chunk of money to be on par with desktop performance but their parts are undergoing much more scrutiny than desktops and will definitely die faster than a desktop.

So honestly, the way I see it is, users that are replacing their gaming desktop with a on par laptop are:

- paying more in terms of price / performance (less bang for your buck)
- paying more for a small portability luxury
- at risk of having parts fail faster
- at a higher risk of having their system stolen than a desktop user
- paying more for less options such as upgrading and system maintenance
- have a tougher time reselling and salvaging parts if they decide to sell or if the system fails

I can honestly say between 15 and 20 days per month my laptop is travelling with me. It's a 16.1".

Further to that a laptop is much more at home on a counter top or coffee table than a desktop is so a lot of home users are switching because they are so self-contained. I know your super fast computer will out perform my laptop but honestly I couldn't care less about raw performance.

As for parts degradation, my media laptop has been running non-stop now for over 1.5 years (other than occasional restarts for system updates) and shows no signs of letting up any time soon. It also only draws 18W at idle (not standby or hibernation) of power rather than my desktop that idles at over 250 last time I checked.

Kg810

03-27-2011, 12:47 AM

Originally posted by Q-TIP

I can honestly say between 15 and 20 days per month my laptop is travelling with me. It's a 16.1".

Okay, now of those 15-20 days per month, how many of those times were for gaming at a buddy's place?

Reason why I ask is because I'm curious as to whether or not a Tablet PC would be a more logical and easier choice to go with than lugging around a 16.1 inch laptop that probably weighs 6+lbs.

You may be an exception where you are constantly gaming at a friend's house, but I feel the majority of the people out there could have a much more enjoyable time having a dedicated desktop at home and just carry a tablet or netbook (10 inches or smaller).

Q-TIP

03-27-2011, 12:50 AM

Absolutely none. However there is no tablet that will run Photoshop and Premier Pro.

I don't game on a PC. In fact very few computer owners play games on their computers. This thread is about desktop computers as a whole and not as a gaming platform.

mucat

03-27-2011, 01:02 AM

IMO, desktop PC will stay. With eyefinity and nvidia surround getting affordable, desktop PC just tuned into multiscreen (3 & +) workstation/gaming platform.

Recca168

03-27-2011, 01:42 AM

I think the desktop will stick around. More so now with the new smartphones, tablets and netbooks in the market. For me the laptop was most useful when I was going to school just to kill time between classes. Since then my laptop has been gathering dust. Between my desktop at home and my smartphone I don't seem to have any need for a computer that's portable. So no need to spend more on a laptop that would never leave the house. I did pick up a netbook though since they're so cheap, mainly just for movies when traveling

AG_Styles

03-27-2011, 05:38 AM

The desktop will stick around. Laptops are too costly in terms of upgrades for most tech companies (not talking about help desk or the like).

Not everyone merely uses word processors at work... I use 3D max, maya, premiere, PS, and multiple memory and graphic/processor intensive engines on a daily basis at work. Needless to say, i need an upgrade every 6months-1year if i want to be able to work faster and spend less downtime waiting/rendering/compiling. Also, it's faster for me to store what i'm working on locally, and then archive it at the end of the day.

It's an asinine assumption to assume that a cloud computing solution and netbooks would replace desktops even in the corporate workplace. For example, entertainment, media, and graphic processing divisions simply cannot afford this solution as it would hamper efficiency problems in terms of product dev. Ex: Would you give a junior Animator a netbook to work with and cut his efficiency down by an extreme amount (50%+) due to a variety of factors (screensize, data size, processing speed for rendering,etc...).

i'm running 4GB RAM on my current laptop at home. I use it for developing my own engines on the side and the big problem is the screensize, the stock graphics card that i can't upgrade, etc... The laptop is 3 years old now, and although i use it in every country I move to, it's more suited for light development and media entertainment. I still am looking forward to getting a new tower system for core development when i move back to Calgary. I would be able to do so much more within a shorter amount of time. I wouldn't mind keeping the laptop, but it's just too impractical for what i do with the non-upgradable GPU, and processor speed.

msommers

03-27-2011, 09:41 AM

^^This is one of the reasons (sounds like film editor/animator) desktops will stay, because they need the power. What percentage are NOT doing that but rather surfing the net, doing their taxes, sending emails and hooking up their phones and iPods? In a non-corporate world, it is this percentage of people that is going to ultimately decide if desktops become a niche market.

Even in a corporate world, just thinking of how many times it would have been great to pick up my computer, head down to an engineer's office or boss' office to show them something instead of having to go back and forth. Or print screening and emailing that photo. A laptop could certainly have its uses in the corporate world too.

WhippWhapp

03-27-2011, 09:49 AM

There are those of us who are power users that will always require the sheer muscle that a desktop provides.

I have been reading about the death of PC's ever since I bought my first one.

Try encoding a ripped Bluray with x264 or any type of bruteforce dictionary attack with a typical laptop or tablet.

Mibz

03-27-2011, 10:52 AM

Originally posted by AG_Styles
The desktop will stick around. Laptops are too costly in terms of upgrades for most tech companies (not talking about help desk or the like). VDI/cloud computing solves this for less time and money than buying and upgrading desktops.

Not everyone merely uses word processors at work... I use 3D max, maya, premiere, PS, and multiple memory and graphic/processor intensive engines on a daily basis at work. Needless to say, i need an upgrade every 6months-1year if i want to be able to work faster and spend less downtime waiting/rendering/compiling. Also, it's faster for me to store what i'm working on locally, and then archive it at the end of the day.

It's an asinine assumption to assume that a cloud computing solution ... would replace desktops even in the corporate workplace. For example, entertainment, media, and graphic processing divisions simply cannot afford this solution as it would hamper efficiency problems in terms of product dev. Ex: Would you give a junior Animator a netbook to work with and cut his efficiency down by an extreme amount (50%+) due to a variety of factors (screensize, data size, processing speed for rendering,etc...). Ha, you sound like our QA guys. You come across like graphics guys need resources that centralized computing can't handle. What's asinine is thinking that the world has created a single desktop processor than can do what you need but there's no way that enterprise solutions could possibly match it. WRT the italicized bit, it's even faster for that data to never leave the data center ;)

Fact is, with VDI, I can give that junior animator whatever he needs for less money than buying a desktop. It's far cheaper for me to buy a single blade than it is to supply a 6 person graphics team with desktops. In 6 months when they want an upgrade, it's still cheaper for me to just buy another blade.

On a separate note, there are a lot of people complaining about how hard it is to work on laptops. Have you opened one up lately? RAM and disk swaps/upgrades are 2 minute jobs. Replacing keyboards is 5 minutes on most models. No, it's not as easy as a desktop but there are people making it sound like everyday work on a laptop is difficult. It's not.

The question that I always have to ask is how often are you pro-laptop users moving your desktop-equivalent laptops around?

I'm not talking about casual laptops that are lugged around the sofa when watching TV or something. Why aren't you talking about this? What does it matter whether portability means moving it 20 ft or 20 miles?

n1zm0

03-27-2011, 10:53 AM

Originally posted by alloroc
I know that you can build a faster machine with a desktop but with laptops out there for only $1200 - $1400 with quad core processors and full gaming graphics cards being powerful enough that they can actually run any game made is it really worthwhile buying a desktop any more?

Most people have both a desktop and a laptop anyway so if you just went out and bought a high end laptop with a docking station and forgo the desktop would you be saving money in the long run?

well are you prepared to get another 1000-1500$ laptop in 2-4 years just to play a new game you really want? although the low end reqms for games arent extremely high for most pc games, the bar is always moving up every year, take BF3 for example where the devs are already forewarning potential buyers that the game will not run on DX9 or XP.

about 4.5 years ago i saw a deal @ bestbuy for $1500 for a Qosmio x305 , it was awesome, it ran absolutely everything, i played CoD MW1 MP on the damned ferry to Vancouver island on the deck... in the straight of georgia ffs

then come to just about summer last year, i couldn't keep up with the games ( on full grphx, some barely on medium like ArmA2), if i could it was with a severely horrible fps rate because of the heat. i started opening it, the quickest access was to ram and HDD, saw the prices for those to upgrade on a laptop - not worth it. I'm surprised it lasted as long as it did, i mean a gaming laptop of that time (2006-2007) only made it max 2 years. BUT the 'gaming' laptops now, even the low end ones might be able to last a bit longer, you can get those 15" ones with mobile ati 5600 series and play BC2 perfectly fine and stable on medium grphx for hours.

in the end i just built my first tower again and its mid range for a gaming rig - all for under $1000 so far, that old Qosmio is now the all over the house/traveling laptop (before the walk around the house-websurfing/mobile machine was my gf's netbook), as someone said for businesses desktops are always cheaper period - especially when it comes to say extreme multitasking where you need 6x cores, so they will never die, plus video game makers/graphical design, music developers all need the juice a desktop can provide to make their jobs easier - desktop is far from dead.

for the regular joes and janes of this age, laptops for personal home use make more sense to them tho, plus everyone needs their own computer now (remember when there was ONE family computer and everyone had to share?) - just easier to deal with and most ppl would never attempt to open up their case simply because the internals of electronics scare ppl, but there will always come a point with a laptop where you have to get rid of it as a whole just because upgrading it isn't economically sound whereas your desktop is upgradeable in pieces, in a fairly easy fashion (if you somewhat know what you're doing) and with way cheaper prices.

I think if you find a great deal on a 'gaming' laptop - do it, like this (http://www.redflagdeals.com/deals/main.php/alldeals/comments/hot_gaming_laptop_gateway_156_notebook_w_core_i3_380m_1gb_ati_5650_4gb_470# ) but if you know you will want to game alot and dont need to use a laptop for work purposes, make a rig - it will be cheaper in the long run, surfing the web and mobility is for smartphones/netbooks/tablets and laptops.

hampstor

03-27-2011, 12:52 PM

Originally posted by Mibz
VDI/cloud computing solves this for less time and money than buying and upgrading desktops.

Ha, you sound like our QA guys. You come across like graphics guys need resources that centralized computing can't handle. What's asinine is thinking that the world has created a single desktop processor than can do what you need but there's no way that enterprise solutions could possibly match it. WRT the italicized bit, it's even faster for that data to never leave the data center ;)

Fact is, with VDI, I can give that junior animator whatever he needs for less money than buying a desktop. It's far cheaper for me to buy a single blade than it is to supply a 6 person graphics team with desktops. In 6 months when they want an upgrade, it's still cheaper for me to just buy another blade.

VDI out of a cloud :love:

Right now, it's one thing to publish apps/desktops with LOB apps like Office/Accounting and it's another thing to be publishing high graphic intensive apps.

I think the desktop as it exists today is going to have be around for a few years until VDI overcomes the hurdle with graphics and becomes mainstream.

VDI is getting a lot better with graphics tho - i think we're really close now to it become a viable tool that someone can take and turn into a marketable product for gaming. SP1 for Win7/Server 08 R2 introduced remotefx - it's not quite 'there' yet (iirc, limitations on how much video memory is allocated to the VM), but we're definately getting closer.

I wouldn't be surprised in a few years if you can pay a subscription for new games to be published using VDI. Infact, I am almost 100% sure it will go that way since everything in the software industry is moving to a SaaS model. This will allow people to play new games w/o having to do upgrades to their existing machines. Even the OS on the system isn't going to matter. You'll be able to run the game on almost any platform.

In the end, I think VDI will provide a very compelling alternative for the 2 primary reasons why people use desktops: Graphics intensive applications and upgradability to run new apps.

Kg810

03-27-2011, 01:25 PM

Originally posted by Mibz

Why aren't you talking about this? What does it matter whether portability means moving it 20 ft or 20 miles?

I think you meant "Why are you talking about this?" Why did I bring that up? Because that is what laptop users always bring up?

My question was asked so I could see whether or not people who bought laptops could maybe spend their money on a desktop + tablet. If you are a laptop user and you just move it around the house (I.E - kitchen table, living room, etc), what tasks are you actually doing outside of your den/home office?

If you are just browsing the web, surfing youtube, facebook, emailing and other similar tasks then wouldn't you benefit by having a 1.3lb tablet vs a 6+lb laptop?

Some people brought up how they like going to a friend's house to game, so I wonder what the percentage that was since they brought it up as an advantage. I was merely trying to see how often it happened so I could actually see how it was worth being noted as a advantage. IMO, if it's like 5-10 times out of the year, did it really matter? Is Skype/Vent no sufficient enough? I personally cannot see the trade off in terms of what I listed above, so I questioned it so people could maybe explain their perspective on things so I could maybe understand why.

Recca168

03-27-2011, 01:41 PM

Originally posted by hampstor

VDI out of a cloud :love:

Right now, it's one thing to publish apps/desktops with LOB apps like Office/Accounting and it's another thing to be publishing high graphic intensive apps.

I think the desktop as it exists today is going to have be around for a few years until VDI overcomes the hurdle with graphics and becomes mainstream.

VDI is getting a lot better with graphics tho - i think we're really close now to it become a viable tool that someone can take and turn into a marketable product for gaming. SP1 for Win7/Server 08 R2 introduced remotefx - it's not quite 'there' yet (iirc, limitations on how much video memory is allocated to the VM), but we're definately getting closer.

I wouldn't be surprised in a few years if you can pay a subscription for new games to be published using VDI. Infact, I am almost 100% sure it will go that way since everything in the software industry is moving to a SaaS model. This will allow people to play new games w/o having to do upgrades to their existing machines. Even the OS on the system isn't going to matter. You'll be able to run the game on almost any platform.

In the end, I think VDI will provide a very compelling alternative for the 2 primary reasons why people use desktops: Graphics intensive applications and upgradability to run new apps.

Eventually, I'm sure all things can be replaced with the cloud computing but i don't think it would be a viable solution. Again gaming will be the example. If I understand this correctly, the game will be run/processed/rendered in the cloud and the output will be sent back to the end user. I think this basically translates to streaming video back to the user which will use a ton of bandwidth compared to how this works today. With all the ISPs pushing for usage based billing I think they could just kill this solution

Mibz

03-27-2011, 02:08 PM

Originally posted by Kg810
If you are just browsing the web, surfing youtube, facebook, emailing and other similar tasks then wouldn't you benefit by having a 1.3lb tablet vs a 6+lb laptop? Ah, sorry, I had missed your point.

TorqueDog

03-27-2011, 02:44 PM

I used to want a gaming laptop badly. Then I bought one.

The damn thing had terrible battery life, the heat it generated was off the bloody charts, the fans were always screaming, and the gaming performance was 'okay'. About what your average gaming desktop would do, but with far more annoyances.

Nowadays, I choose a laptop based on how usable it is. Portability, battery life, noise, are all far more important in a notebook than sheer performance. When I build a new desktop, I'll use THAT for gaming.

alloroc

03-27-2011, 07:26 PM

Originally posted by Q-TIP

It also only draws 18W at idle (not standby or hibernation) of power rather than my desktop that idles at over 250 last time I checked.

That is a great point.

Sentry

03-27-2011, 08:02 PM

A $1400 laptop will be garbage at everything. Jack of all trades, master of none.

A $1000 desktop and $400 netbook will fill every role nicely.

Same reason I have winter tires and summer tires instead of just all seasons.

Chandler_Racing

03-27-2011, 08:03 PM

Originally posted by Sentry
A $1400 laptop will be garbage at everything. Jack of all trades, master of none.

A $1000 desktop and $400 netbook will fill every role nicely.

Same reason I have winter tires and summer tires instead of just all seasons.

You have never owned one, how would you know?

Sentry

03-27-2011, 08:04 PM

Owned one what? A laptop? Yes I have. I sold it and started using netbooks instead.

Chandler_Racing

03-27-2011, 08:11 PM

Originally posted by Sentry
Owned one what? A laptop? Yes I have. I sold it and started using netbooks instead.

A $1400+ gaming laptop?

Sentry

03-27-2011, 08:23 PM

A 1400 dollar laptop is not a gaming laptop. It's just a moderately higher priced notebook with some "premium" features. A gaming laptop is one with performance comparable to a desktop (which would cost a shit ton less).

So if $1400 laptop can't game, why does it need to be heavy, hot, less portable, and have shitty battery life just to browse? Netbooks are better in that respect.

Desktops are better in the performance and performance per dollar area.

Unless your idea of "gaming" is world of warcraft. In which case even my measly netbook can take care of that.

A790

03-28-2011, 12:21 AM

Originally posted by Sentry
A 1400 dollar laptop is not a gaming laptop. It's just a moderately higher priced notebook with some "premium" features. A gaming laptop is one with performance comparable to a desktop (which would cost a shit ton less).

So if $1400 laptop can't game, why does it need to be heavy, hot, less portable, and have shitty battery life just to browse? Netbooks are better in that respect.

Desktops are better in the performance and performance per dollar area.

Unless your idea of "gaming" is world of warcraft. In which case even my measly netbook can take care of that.
WTF are you talking about?

A mid-end gaming laptop is about $1,300 and even then it's only a mid-end system. You aren't going to get a gaming laptop that's less expensive and "faster". If that were the case, the specs I'm looking at right now from Alienware (http://www.dell.com/ca/p/alienware-m15x/fs) and Asus (http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/PID-MX31077(ME).aspx) would be grossly overpriced.

To get a gaming laptop that compares to a $1,600 desktop you need to spend at least $2k (http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/PID-MX32812(ME).aspx for reference), and even then, it's likely to have serious compromises on the gpu/processor side of things.

alloroc

03-28-2011, 12:30 AM

Originally posted by Sentry
A 1400 dollar laptop is not a gaming laptop. It's just a moderately higher priced notebook with some "premium" features. A gaming laptop is one with performance comparable to a desktop (which would cost a shit ton less).

So if $1400 laptop can't game, why does it need to be heavy, hot, less portable, and have shitty battery life just to browse? Netbooks are better in that respect.

Desktops are better in the performance and performance per dollar area.

Unless your idea of "gaming" is world of warcraft. In which case even my measly netbook can take care of that.

I can get a laptop with the following from memory express tomorrow for $1400.

Core i7-740QM, 8GB, 1TB, DVD+/-RW, 17.3in Full HD LED, GeForce GTX 460M, Win 7 Home Premium 64-bit Illuminated keyboard and full numeric keypad.

What game can't it run?

EDIT:
It has the same video card as the higher priced model just posted by A790 and we all know that when it comes to games that is what will make the difference.

KandabashiDevil

03-28-2011, 12:33 AM

Yes. Desktops are dead.

The only people defending them play video games :rolleyes: Laptops are more practical and efficient in every other way.

Sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings. Please don't threaten me with your level 400 Ogre :rofl:

alloroc

03-28-2011, 12:40 AM

The other side of the coin is that 90% of people out there don't game on their computer anyway. but that is for another thread <P>

msommers

03-28-2011, 08:36 AM

Even with a budget of like $1800, to be able to get a fantastic computer capable of running the latest games at the best settings, get a screen, keyboard, mouse + netbook seems unlikely. So why not spend $1800 to get the best 17" Asus laptop?

I have a 14.1" laptop right now and could not imagine going smaller than that. 10" screen seems borderline useless, even for just web browsing.

n1zm0

03-28-2011, 09:56 AM

Originally posted by msommers
Even with a budget of like $1800, to be able to get a fantastic computer capable of running the latest games at the best settings, get a screen, keyboard, mouse + netbook seems unlikely. So why not spend $1800 to get the best 17" Asus laptop?

I have a 14.1" laptop right now and could not imagine going smaller than that. 10" screen seems borderline useless, even for just web browsing.

^$1800 will most definitely get you a great rig AND a laptop (or 2 netbooks if you want), not you specifically, but most ppl keep thinking it costs ~$1600 to make a decent rig these days... stop using that as an excuse for your ignorance and fear in learning new things (i.e building a computer yourself), living in the past when you say that - like 5-10 years ago ffs.

spend $1800 on the best Asus Laptop is fine if you can afford it, cause in 2-3 years you'll potentially have to get another one at the same or higher price if you keep up with gaming, also you bought a gaming laptop because of mobility - but a 'gaming' laptop is NOT light - i know this first hand lugging my Qosmio around airports, therefore what was the point in the end?

Originally posted by KandabashiDevil
Yes. Desktops are dead.

The only people defending them play video games :rolleyes: Laptops are more practical and efficient in every other way.

:rofl: so, everyone in white collar accounting, systems analysts, extreme graphic design/CGI (ppl who work on Michael Bay movies use laptops? loloolol...), ALL the console games are made and coded on a PC for the most part, media (put together newspapers/magazines - world's major news channel newsrooms), server hubs, while those who do heavy drafting can do it on a $2000 laptop - you want a bigger screen/more GPU juice for major engineering projects, government and business data entry, stock market traders, those who sit and monitor at major electrical distribution, pipeline, transportation grids?

http://technobuffalo.technobuffalo.netdna-cdn.com/files/2010/03/dealingroom.gif http://www.profbob.com/images/CNN%20Newsroom%2009.jpg http://newsroom-magazine.com/Pix/BBC/BBC%20Master%20Control.jpg http://www.pta.wa.gov.au/Portals/0/annualreports/2008/images/rollover/Train_Control.jpg

you tell all those ppl that tomorrow you're throwing away their PC, their mouse & keyboard and multiple screens for a laptop to do their daily work, see how many will laugh @ you. you own a medium sized company requiring a computer for the staff to do their jobs, can you see the company buying a bunch of new but barely capable netbooks and low end laptops for ~$450-~$600? or a bunch of decent $350 Dell Vostros small business desktops with full keyboard and mouse... anyone ever done long data entry on a laptop can share the frustration, laptops and netbooks are for personal websurfing and light computer work imo.

I have a gaming laptop, netbook, smartphone, PC and soon a tablet, EACH serve their purpose extremely well in their respected intended environments of use.

msommers

03-28-2011, 10:11 AM

Originally posted by n1zm0

^$1800 will most definitely get you a great rig AND a laptop (or 2 netbooks if you want), not you specifically, but most ppl keep thinking it costs ~$1600 to make a decent rig these days... stop using that as an excuse for your ignorance and fear in learning new things (i.e building a computer yourself), living in the past when you say that - like 5-10 years ago ffs.

Excuse for ignorance and fear in learning? :rofl: I've quite often heard that you can build a computer yourself for cheaper than pre-builts however buying piece by piece can be the same price as having a company have it already made if you don't buy things onsale.

I'm not here to argue man so simmer down a touch. Build me a rig that can play the latest games at the same settings the latest Asus laptop can, that includes everything you'll need (like monitor, keyboard, mouse, speakers).

Then add $250-300 for a 10" netbook which still, in my opinion, is a useless screen size. But for sake of this discussion, we'll include it. So essentially you have ~$1500 to work with.

alloroc

03-28-2011, 11:10 AM

Actually where I used to work they were slowly removing all the desktops and replacing them with laptops so people could bring them home to work. A lot of them were for heavy drafting - solid edge.

alloroc

03-28-2011, 11:37 AM

Originally posted by msommers

Build me a rig that can play the latest games at the same settings the latest Asus laptop can, that includes everything you'll need (like monitor, keyboard, mouse, speakers).

Then add $250-300 for a 10" netbook which still, in my opinion, is a useless screen size. But for sake of this discussion, we'll include it. So essentially you have ~$1500 to work with.

Dont forget it needs the following ...
Windows 7 x64, 8 in 1 card reader, 1 USB 3.0 slot, WLan, Bluetooth, a 2MP camera, a battery backup power supply, and the keyboard has to be illuminated.
With assembly included.

Anomaly

03-28-2011, 11:48 AM

Originally posted by alloroc
As I posted originally - I know that you can build a faster desktop.

That wasn't my question.

Let me put it a different way ..

Are the new laptops 'fast enough' that 80%-90% of users out there could use one for everything and do away with the desktop?

Definitely. I wouldn't say being "fast enough" isn't a concern so much as price is. Laptops are generally inexpensive enough now and provide the features that %85 of users require + mobility.

For what its worth, I work in IT and get asked every other week what laptop someone should buy... I can't remember in the last 3 years anyone asking about a desktop.

artieg30

03-28-2011, 11:57 AM

yeah i think the general trend is that people are moving more towards a laptop for price and portability, but people that require more juice to their computing such as technical or scientific people than they will always need a desktop/workstation.

I work for a O&G company that has a bunch of geophyscists and they would never be able to do their work (efficiently atleast) on a laptop as they just dont provide the performance needed. Mind you there are very close laptop alternatives, but its like what someone said here earlier the trade off is the portability which ultimately defeats the purpose of having a laptop to begin with.

I've also went the gaming laptop way and have regretted it as it was just pointless. It was a great rig (an alienware m17x) and was able to hook up to two 22" monitors fine, but the problem was it was pretty much a desktop. It just ay on my desk the whole time. Not to mention when i tried to move the thing around the house it was heavy and it just wasn't convenient. Ultimately i ended up going back to a desktop since i realized i didn't need the portability.

Kg810

03-28-2011, 12:29 PM

Originally posted by msommers

Excuse for ignorance and fear in learning? :rofl: I've quite often heard that you can build a computer yourself for cheaper than pre-builts however buying piece by piece can be the same price as having a company have it already made if you don't buy things onsale.

I'm not here to argue man so simmer down a touch. Build me a rig that can play the latest games at the same settings the latest Asus laptop can, that includes everything you'll need (like monitor, keyboard, mouse, speakers).

Then add $250-300 for a 10" netbook which still, in my opinion, is a useless screen size. But for sake of this discussion, we'll include it. So essentially you have ~$1500 to work with.

Hey msommers,

I remember you were looking for a system for mainly photoshop and lightroom.

So here is a quick setup I just put together from browsing around:

CPU = i5 2500k - $214.59
http://www.bestdirect.ca/products/232639/Intel/BX80623I52500K/

CPU Cooler = Corsair A50 - $29.99
http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=53611&vpn=CAFA50&manufacture=Corsair

MB = Gigabyte P67A UD3 - $124.67
http://www.onhop.ca/product/11111385/p67-lga1155-max-16gb-atx-pcie16-max-16gb-4ddr3-dimm?f=Shopbot

Memory = 8GB Corsair XMS3 (2x 4GB) - $87.99
http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=55445&vpn=CMX8GX3M2A1600C9&manufacture=Corsair&promoid=1302

GPU = Sapphire Radeon HD 6870 - $189.99
http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=56383&vpn=11179-00-40R&manufacture=SAPPHIRE&promoid=1302

PSU = Corsair HX650 - $99.99
http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=42532&vpn=CMPSU-650HX&manufacture=Corsair&promoid=1302

Case = Coolermaster 690II Advanced - $78.70
http://www.directcanada.com/products/?sku=11130AC9811&vpn=RC-692-KKN2&manufacture=COOLERMASTER

HDD = Western Digital Black Caviar 1TB 64mb cache - $79.72
http://www.onhop.ca/product/10876144/wd-black-1tb-3-5-7200-64mb?f=Shopbot

SSD = OCZ Vertex 2 120GB - $215.57
http://www.bestdirect.ca/products/230351/OCZ_Technology/OCZSSD3_2VTX120G/

So far that is $1103.86

Funny thing is, I love how the laptop users kept saying they could easily HDMI out to a monitor or TV, hook it up to a keyboard and mouse. So I'm not going to include speakers, mouse, keyboard, and monitor since most of the guys claimed they could do that already.

So $1500 - $1103.86 = $396.14

I definitely could get everything and still save money, but I rather upgrade by throwing in another set of RAM ($87.99), another video card ($189.99), another HDD ($79.72) with $38.44 to spare for a case of beers for when I build the rig.

So what's the total specs for less than $1500?

i5 2500k
CPU Cooler
Gigabyte P67A UD3
16GB RAM
Sapphire Radeon HD 6870x2
Corsair HX650w
CM 690II Advanced
2TB WD Black Caviar
120GB OCZ Vertex 2 SSD
Case of Beer

Originally posted by alloroc

Dont forget it needs the following ...
Windows 7 x64, 8 in 1 card reader, 1 USB 3.0 slot, WLan, Bluetooth, a 2MP camera, a battery backup power supply, and the keyboard has to be illuminated.
With assembly included.

:facepalm: :facepalm:

Shax

03-28-2011, 12:47 PM

I am a laptop user and I bought it for school about a year ago and I have to say I fucking hate it. Sure it is not top of the line but I spent $1000 on it. My buddies with equivalently priced desktops SMASH my laptop spec wise and play almost any game they want, something I cannot do.

I say with confidence that once I finished school I brought the laptop out of the house maybe one time in six months but since I am at home with a desk now the laptop only leaves the desk so I can dust. So portability is completely irrelevant for me now.

Couple all of this together with the fact that a desktop would fit nicely on my desk with 2 20ish inch monitors and take up less room with the laptop and a separate monitor, keyboard and mouse than there is really no reason for my next rig to not be a desktop.

The problem that I have is I have never been a desktop guy, never built one up and I honestly don't know which motherboard is compatible with which ram, with which cpu.. etc. Aside from that I would have to buy a new monitor to run the dual screens, big whoop.

So basically the learning curve is stopping me from setting up a new desktop rig, well that and funds.
:banghead:

n1zm0

03-28-2011, 12:47 PM

^edit: i tinkered around with computers a bit in the past 10 years but i've never built one, i just jumped in headfirst and made my first one last christmas, the internet is a powerful thing...

Originally posted by alloroc
a battery backup power supply, and the keyboard has to be illuminated.
With assembly included.

ha, funny guy, lol, anyways heres what i came up with quickly

meeting or exceeding (or blowing away) the gaming laptop specs which i used with your info ~$1800 17" Asus, the Asus G73JW-A1 (http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/PID-MX30461%28ME%29.aspx), the good majority of this wasn't on sale nor was it the cheapest of its type just because some was out of stock.

http://i.imgur.com/jarzw.jpg

So THEN, we had a budget of ~$1800, $1800-1208.83= $591.17, throw in $8.83 from under your car seat for a new surplus total of $600. Take that and goto bestbuy/futureshop w/e, get one of these (http://www.futureshop.ca/en-CA/product/hewlett-packard-hp-15-6-amd-phenom-ii-triple-core-mobile-processor-n850-laptop-dv6-3264ca-champagne-dv6-3264ca/10162355.aspx?path=deb475638441bb4c7e46bbb76eb8c852en02) which still can run those not so DirectX games like Mw2, probably BlOps zombies, Bioshock 2 on the mobile HD 4250 on min AND have way more battery life than a G73. and as KG810 never added into his list because idk how honestly who doesnt have a spare keyboard and mouse and a monitor? but anyways if you do, take away another ~$120 and go buy one of these (http://www.futureshop.ca/en-CA/product/hewlett-packard-hp-pavilion-15-6-amd-phenom-ii-x4-p960-laptop-dv6-3284ca-blue-dv6-3284ca/10161948.aspx?path=6d1852ab004770fb583391df9f0d7ed7en02) to do some proper laptop gaming, run BC2 smoothly at least and still have more battery-only life than the G73.

again, you wanted the mobility of the 'gaming' laptop, but regardless if you have a backup battery, that makes it even more heavier, not so fun or mobile anymore then the battery life is atrocious - you end up plugging in the thing anyways when you game right? - i did at least when i used mine alot - wouldnt last more than 1h45min with heavy gaming - but it's a 'gaming' laptop isn't it?.... :( , it kinda feels like this after a while:

http://img.listal.com/image/960358/600full-the-pursuit-of-happyness-screenshot.jpg

msommers

03-28-2011, 01:00 PM

Thanks Kg810. That was very helpful.

Kg810

03-28-2011, 01:03 PM

Originally posted by msommers
Thanks Kg810. That was very helpful.

No problem, I'm not sure if your budget is still around $900 but you can easily downgrade that SSD to a smaller size and different brand to get that 900 mark. The SSD will be primarily as program storage with all the files going to your HDD and backup HDD. You can also downgrade the GPU to the 6850 which is sufficient enough.

msommers

03-28-2011, 01:09 PM

My next question would be the need or "futureproofing" of an i7 processor and if that system is capable of playing games like Battlefield 3 well. I don't game a whole lot but that game does look pretty darn awesome!

Photoshop as well as some of the high-res film slides I have are ridiculous in size and make it nearly impossible to work on this current laptop. I'm not sure where the power gets drawn from for that, if it's the GPU, proc, ram or combination.

Budget is more than $900. Would like to get something decent to last awhile whether it be a laptop or desktop. I'd say ~$1500 give or take is where I'm thinking.

alloroc

03-28-2011, 01:18 PM

Originally posted by Kg810

i5 2500k
CPU Cooler
Gigabyte P67A UD3
16GB RAM
Sapphire Radeon HD 6870x2
Corsair HX650w
CM 690II Advanced
2TB WD Black Caviar
120GB OCZ Vertex 2 SSD
Case of Beer

:facepalm: :facepalm:

Nice build and other than the processor you met most of the specs.

You also seem to know where to go to get stuff.

n1zm0

03-28-2011, 01:34 PM

Originally posted by msommers
My next question would be the need or "futureproofing" of an i7 processor and if that system is capable of playing games like Battlefield 3 well. I don't game a whole lot but that game does look pretty darn awesome!

no min reqms posted yet but i would be confident to say any i7 and some i5s and anything higher than at maybe extreme min a 5770 or a GTS450 i think is the equivalent somewhat? should do BF3 med-high settings, but who knows i could be wrong, just going off slightly upped BC2 pc specs.

for ~$900 on a desktop is definitely do-able for a great BF3 experience im sure, $900 on a laptop idk tho.

how come no AMD love lol? i7s are superior but AMD stuff is still pretty good.

Kg810

03-28-2011, 01:38 PM

Originally posted by alloroc

Nice build and other than the processor you met most of the specs.

You also seem to know where to go to get stuff.

Lol are you kidding me?

Not sure if we are comparing the same CPU here, but I was looking at the Asus G73 with the i7 740QM 1.73GHz.

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i5-2500K+%40+3.30GHz

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i7+740QM+%40+1.73GHz

I was going off a $1,500 price mark so I assumed that was the one I was comparing it to.

http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/PID-MX31077%28ME%29.aspx

If you were somehow confused and comparing it to the top of the line Asus G73 that has the i7 2630QM, you'd still be wrong.

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i7-2630QM+%40+2.00GHz

So please, can you tell me which CPU you are comparing it to? Do you even know what the i5 2500k is capable of?

Here is a quick benchmark chart for Adobe Photoshop CS4 64-bit.

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/39555-intel-sandy-bridge-core-i5-2500k-core-i7-2600k-processors-review-13.html

Originally posted by msommers
My next question would be the need or "futureproofing" of an i7 processor and if that system is capable of playing games like Battlefield 3 well. I don't game a whole lot but that game does look pretty darn awesome!

Photoshop as well as some of the high-res film slides I have are ridiculous in size and make it nearly impossible to work on this current laptop. I'm not sure where the power gets drawn from for that, if it's the GPU, proc, ram or combination.

Budget is more than $900. Would like to get something decent to last awhile whether it be a laptop or desktop. I'd say ~$1500 give or take is where I'm thinking.

Yeah like n1zm0 stated, no specs released yet so kinda hard to say what will be needed. That system I posted up top would probably be able to play it. The i5 2500k is capable of overclocking very well from what I've read.

It's a combination. But with a SSD running the program, GPU, CPU and RAM I posted above it should run things very smoothly. The i5 2500k has some very good ratings from Photoshop users.

I could probably mess around and tweak that list I posted above. But a system that is geared towards future games like BF3 won't be the best for Photoshop and vice versa. So you will need to ask yourself which area you'd like your rig to be better in.

msommers

03-28-2011, 01:52 PM

The way I was intending the comparison go with this (http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/PID-MX31863%28ME%29.aspx) Asus. ~$1800.00

I do have a monitor and mouse already but I have two screens now. So I'd need to buy another monitor to match that if I went the desktop route. Speakers really are irrelevant for me as I have good ones I'd transfer. The mouse is fine too. Most are ~$50 anyways.

But the comparison was intended on getting a desktop + netbook for ~$1800. Most netbooks are between 250-300 so I figured an even $1500 to build a rig that has the same/similar specs or benchmark capabilities to the Asus listed above. Add an additional ~200 or so for a monitor and you're left with 1300. KG810 has done that as far as I can tell.

I suppose the nice thing with a desktop would being able to upgrade to a audiophile grade soundcard. I would also have to add wireless to the desktop build above.

PS This was a review released very recently on the above Asus.
http://www.laptopmag.com/review/laptops/asus-g73sw-a1.aspx

Kg810

03-28-2011, 02:00 PM

^

Ah I see, yeah even if it was the i7 2630QM, the i5 2500k is better like I already pointed out.

The thing is, and this isn't targetted towards you specifically msommers, the laptop guys are totally fine with working on a 17.3inch screen or smaller, so what's stopping me from telling people to go buy a 17inch monitor from Kijiji?

http://calgary.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-sell-computers-17-LCD-monitor-W0QQAdIdZ260271728

17in LCD + 15in LCD monitor for $35. Just saying, as those 15in laptop and 17in laptop users always try to tell desktop advocates to do a quick price summary and we have to include monitor prices :dunno:.

alloroc

03-28-2011, 02:06 PM

Originally posted by Kg810

Lol are you kidding me?

nope

Originally posted by Kg810
If you were somehow confused and comparing it to the top of the line Asus G73 that has the i7 2630QM, you'd still be wrong.

I was .. thank you for the enlightenment.

Khyron

03-28-2011, 07:09 PM

That's why my system back on page 1 is the 1155 i5 2500K unlocked. With 20$ air cooling it can hit 5 Ghz.

The i7 has hyperthreading which virtually no game uses. So that's a waste of 80 bucks and less speed.

The 1366 chipset i7 triple core/channel memory is deadend, until the 2011 series is released. Still decent enough but the 1155 i5 will be faster and cheaper except if you actually spend a lot of time waiting for rendering or other multithreaded apps. (ie not games)

The whole point of the XPS series was that it used desktop graphics cards. But the new ones are HUGE and use massive power, and generate a lot of heat. You DO NOT get that perforance in a laptop. Not even close.

There is no free lunch. High Framerates = big power, big heat.

Khyron

03-28-2011, 07:45 PM

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_3vlH0fWvwEs/TZE5bVOsHvI/AAAAAAAAAts/uComfoZ-vPc/gpu-compare.jpg

Notebook GPU and Desktop GPU are not in the same league, even if you spend twice the money or more.

Kg810

03-28-2011, 07:59 PM

^

Yup, lots of people still don't know about that. They just assume by looking at the naming scheme that it's the same as the regular desktop GPU then go off saying they got the exact same GPU power as desktop users :nut: .

msommers

03-28-2011, 10:07 PM

This has got me thinking actually about putting together a rig since I have both 32 and 64 bit windows7 already from a student deal. Could possibly do with one monitor. If I need a laptop for out of town work I could buy one and write it off ha.

Are those parts typically on sale often? Some of those items listed are like 50%....Also, is there a how-to to put these things together and what is compatible with what?

EDIT: I tried to put something together on memoryexpress after kind of getting familiar with things. I'm way the hell over budget though. There isn't even any warranty or OS (thankfully) in this price.

I'm sure some stuff could be cut down but I honestly don't know where at this point...

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c159/matt_calgary/Compbuild1.jpg

alloroc

03-28-2011, 11:35 PM

ya after looking at kg810's setup you have to shop around .. and as I tried to say earlier -know where to shop around.

Cudos to nizmo for trying but every time I try and use the memx configurator I wind up over $1200.

I noticed that they both chose the saphire card and that many saphire cards are sold out at memx .. are they better in some way?

Kg810

03-29-2011, 12:11 AM

Originally posted by msommers
This has got me thinking actually about putting together a rig since I have both 32 and 64 bit windows7 already from a student deal. Could possibly do with one monitor. If I need a laptop for out of town work I could buy one and write it off ha.

Are those parts typically on sale often? Some of those items listed are like 50%....Also, is there a how-to to put these things together and what is compatible with what?

EDIT: I tried to put something together on memoryexpress after kind of getting familiar with things. I'm way the hell over budget though. There isn't even any warranty or OS (thankfully) in this price.

I'm sure some stuff could be cut down but I honestly don't know where at this point...

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c159/matt_calgary/Compbuild1.jpg

There are always sales, it takes patience to get the right prices. It'll take a few weeks to monitor sale prices to get a good feel for how low prices can get on each specific part.

I haven't been looking into prices lately and I'm not a 1155 system guy so I'm not gonna be 100% on the best prices off the bat.

If you are going to shop through MemEx you MUST price match in order to get the best deals. MemEx does not and rarely ever has the lowest price from my personal experience.

I won't be able to look into a build for you until Friday as I am busy till the weekend. I can post and answer questions, but checking prices and reading up reviews/benchmarks will take some time.

Khyron

03-29-2011, 12:13 AM

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_3vlH0fWvwEs/TZF3JeKFWnI/AAAAAAAAAt8/N_oeG9TVQ7k/s576/budgetsystem.jpg

For starters. Price match against NCIX and TigerDirect. I got 125 off my computer via price matches, and another 40 off the monitor. edit: Note, Memex IS the lowest on 2500K proc and ram when I bought. I matched on Case, PS, Video Card, SSD.

Power supplies are always going on sale, the 700W TX was 99 bucks last week. Look around. If you're not double video carding, get a 600-700W. If memx is assembling, don't pay premium for modular. And do NOT pay them to install OS! You put the win7 disk in and hit next. That's it.

U can get 4 more gigs of ram later, 4 right now just goes to cache and sits unused for the most part.

SSDs are super expensive, and don't really help games except load time. The hybrid drive caches the most common files to flash so you get a lot of the speed. Your data/pron drive doesn't need to be a raptor. Nvidia is king right now, 560 great top 3 budget card.

Edit: Fuck clicked wrong ram - get 4G dual channel 1600 pack at 1.5 volts, same price.

Kg810

03-29-2011, 12:29 AM

msommers/alloroc:

Use these sites

Best one
www.shopbot.ca

Second best
www.pricebat.ca

Third best
www.pricecanada.com

What you guys will want to do is go to any website - MemoryExpress.com / Ncix.com and find a part you are interested in and copy the "Part #" and enter that number into the sites I posted above. I do all 3 for the sake of making sure one of the sites is missing one or something.

-Edit- I just came across the current NCIX sale and they have a WICKED (imo) combo deal which is the i5 2500k + Noctua NH-U12P CPU cooler. The cooler is regularly $79.99 itself.

http://ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=59790&vpn=2500K%20%26%20NH-U12P%20SE2&manufacture=Bundle%20Deals&promoid=1302