Afghanistan war crime photos - *warning - graphic*

[Modelexis]

http://assets.rollingstone.com/assets/images/gallery/5f562819249d406e933839079819c2cb1215d2fd.jpg

On January 15th, 2010, U.S. soldiers in Bravo Company stationed near Kandahar executed an unarmed Afghan boy named Gul Mudin in the village of La Mohammad Kalay. Reports by soldiers at the scene indicate that Mudin was about 15 years old. According to sworn statements, two soldiers – Cpl. Jeremy Morlock and Pfc. Andrew Holmes – staged the killing to make it look like they had been under attack. Ordering the boy to stand still, they crouched behind a mud wall, tossed a grenade at him and opened fire from close range. This photograph shows Mudin’s body lying by the wall where he was killed.

http://assets.rollingstone.com/assets/images/gallery/31ac84de754efdb4b454db0b56d9478c9dba3fb9.jpg

Following the routine Army procedure required after every battlefield death, the soldiers cut off the dead boy’s clothes and stripped him naked to check for identifying tattoos. Here they are shown scanning his iris and fingerprints, using a portable biometric scanner.

http://assets.rollingstone.com/assets/images/gallery/93a1f89d75968aabcc96c095bc4f2a73eda158f7.jpg

In a break with protocol, the soldiers also took photographs of themselves celebrating their kill. In the photos, Morlock grins and gives a thumbs-up sign as he poses with Mudin’s body. Note that the boy’s right pinky finger appears to have been severed. Staff Sgt. Calvin Gibbs reportedly used a pair of razor-sharp medic’s shears to cut off the finger, which he presented to Holmes as a trophy for killing his first Afghan.


http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/photos/the-kill-team-photos-20110327/0602176

We all know that the military is guilty of murder, but these specific cases hopefully make it a bit more real for everyone.

Remember these pictures the next time you praise your country for going to war.

[Supa Dexta]

This bothers me 0.00%.... Its war.

[lellowrx7]

The blood and such doesnt bother me,
the fact that the marine is smiling in the photo with the dead kid does.

[syritis]

this is the mentality that military personal must take on to survive the battlefield without going insane, they must believe that everyone not in US issued gear is an enemy.

not much different then infantry being told during WWI and II that the german's are all 7 feet tall and enjoy torturing innocent people.

[InRich]

this is fucked up for sure, but it really is war at the end of the day... also, these people have been at war for 100s of years... this shouldn't suprise them, should it?

[Guillermo]

war is hell.

[calgary403]

I thought this guy's story is pretty interesting:

qNN2z4KHDps

The Taliban have been holding him captive for over a year. He has a bunch of videos on youtube.

[veedubin69]

Anything about the war crimes in Iraq or Palestine?

I constantly watch over al-jazeera on the war crimes, how can the US get away with this?

[turbotrip]

what % do you think gets exposed like this? maybe 1%? so for every one of these war crimes that we see theres probably another 99 that we dont hear about.

[Guillermo]

Originally posted by veedubin69
I constantly watch over al-jazeera on the war crimes, how can the US get away with this?

because the same thing happens everywhere. :dunno:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_lMHdYVxOlEI/S-1nqCq2AcI/AAAAAAAABMg/BG3EfctfiK4/s400/KettleCallingPotBlack.jpg

[n1zm0]

Originally posted by Supa Dexta
This bothers me 0.00%.... Its war.

+1, you want to see common practice x1000 with 'advanced' militaries as of recent? search the war photos and videos of Russians in Chechnya, both sides did lots of fked up shit to each other... its war ffs

[elesdee]

Where is 911fever and his bullshit arguments?

[Jetta-2.0]

Originally posted by n1zm0


+1, you want to see common practice x1000 with 'advanced' militaries as of recent? search the war photos and videos of Russians in Chechnya, both sides did lots of fked up shit to each other... its war ffs

so a killing of an unarmed kid is still part of the war?

I hope thats his first and last kill the bitch

[Modelexis]

The sad thing is that if it were a dog in those pictures being held like a trophy, this thread would be 3 pages by now. :(

[ragu]

Originally posted by InRich
this is fucked up for sure, but it really is war at the end of the day... also, these people have been at war for 100s of years... this shouldn't suprise them, should it?

Every single one of these unjust and horrific deaths gives rise to a helpless family full of 'terrorists' more ruthless than before aiming to get justice through a roadside bomb or suicide attack. But when a US/ Cdn soldier dies, it isn't war, is it?

[FraserB]

Originally posted by ragu


Every single one of these unjust and horrific deaths gives rise to a helpless family full of 'terrorists' more ruthless than before aiming to get justice through a roadside bomb or suicide attack. But when a US/ Cdn soldier dies, it isn't war, is it?

Have to agree with this. Shooting civilians and then staging it to look like an attack is not war, it is cold blooded murder. What kind of person shoots a 15 yr old in cold blood and then takes fingers as trophies and pictures?

[Guillermo]

Originally posted by FraserB


Have to agree with this. Shooting civilians and then staging it to look like an attack is not war, it is cold blooded murder. What kind of person shoots a 15 yr old in cold blood and then takes fingers as trophies and pictures?

it's a Rolling Stone article - and certainly not one of the stronger pieces of journalism they've ever put out... i would be careful to get too upset over the photos, since we don't really know anything about the story behind them.

[Modelexis]

Originally posted by Guillermo


it's a Rolling Stone article - and certainly not one of the stronger pieces of journalism they've ever put out... i would be careful to get too upset over the photos, since we don't really know anything about the story behind them.

You're right, i bet there is a great story behind the picture of the soldier holding the dead child by the hair and giving the camera a 'thumbs up'

you god damn idiot.


According to sworn statements, two soldiers – Cpl. Jeremy Morlock and Pfc. Andrew Holmes – staged the killing to make it look like they had been under attack.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20110328/pl_afp/afghanistanunrestusprosecutemedia

The guy posing with the kid got 24 years in prison.

[CMW403]

Originally posted by Supa Dexta
This bothers me 0.00%.... Its war.

You and I usually disagree, but this post ended the thread.

[FraserB]

Originally posted by Guillermo


it's a Rolling Stone article - and certainly not one of the stronger pieces of journalism they've ever put out... i would be careful to get too upset over the photos, since we don't really know anything about the story behind them.

It doesn't look like anyone, even the accused, are denying what happened. I doubt that the US military brings capital charges on a set of pictures alone.

[Supa Dexta]

Originally posted by CMW403


You and I usually disagree, but this post ended the thread.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_hR-mqGzyt4I/SWQbMyfFqwI/AAAAAAAABLQ/CNY6PrS9Wkc/s400/dianaparty3-thumb.png

[Cascade]

:(

[syeve]

Originally posted by FraserB


It doesn't look like anyone, even the accused, are denying what happened. I doubt that the US military brings capital charges on a set of pictures alone.
Posted above - http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20110328/pl_afp/afghanistanunrestusprosecutemedia



"The accompanying story related how the youth shown in the still pictures, identified later as Gul Mudin, a farm worker, was picked out on January 15 last year as the first victim of the so-called "kill team."
Corporal Jeremy Morlock -- who was jailed for 24 years last week -- and Private Andrew Holmes initially threw a grenade at the teenager before gunning him down, and pretending he had attacked them with the grenade.
The little finger of the boy's right hand is missing, allegedly cut off as a trophy."

[Feruk]

Originally posted by FraserB


It doesn't look like anyone, even the accused, are denying what happened. I doubt that the US military brings capital charges on a set of pictures alone.

Another soldier who witnessed it is testifying against them as per article above.

[Toma]

This is a WAR??

You fucking idiots.

This is a slaughter of the people in the mid east.

A full on Terrorist campaign by the west, upon the east.

[mazdavirgin]

Originally posted by Toma
This is a WAR??

You fucking idiots.

This is a slaughter of the people in the mid east.

A full on Terrorist campaign by the west, upon the east.

Yeah I guess you didn't get the memo but please see pictures of the Talibans work. It's far far worse than anything these couple idiots managed to do... I seem to recall them burning people alive and pouring acid on women's faces but eh I guess that is just filthy imperialist propaganda to keep the righteous arab fighters down! :rofl:

[Toma]

Look at Iraq pre invasion... a progressive, high literacy rate, and relatively peaceful nation.

Then, post invasion... over 1,000,000 deaths caused by the invasion and destabilization, spread of radicalization, and more poeple than ever hate the west.

Yeah, "mission accomplished". :dunno:

Save your propaganda and lies, exaggerations, justification for those with your lack of intellect.

[Guillermo]

Originally posted by mazdavirgin


Yeah I guess you didn't get the memo but please see pictures of the Talibans work. It's far far worse than anything these couple idiots managed to do... I seem to recall them burning people alive and pouring acid on women's faces but eh I guess that is just filthy imperialist propaganda to keep the righteous arab fighters down! :rofl:

:thumbsup:

at least the US signed and holds themselves accountable to the geneva conventions. :dunno:

[Guillermo]

Originally posted by Toma
Look at Iraq pre invasion... a progressive, high literacy rate, and relatively peaceful nation.

Then, post invasion... over 1,000,000 deaths caused by the invasion and destabilization, spread of radicalization, and more poeple than ever hate the west.

Yeah, "mission accomplished". :dunno:

Save your propaganda and lies, exaggerations, justification for those with your lack of intellect.

why do you have to be such a bully around here? chill out man. I don't know you, but you're coming off as a real dick on these forums. you seem to be the only person bringing up Iraq here - and I don't see anyone arguing with you about it. just so you know, i'm american, and I moved here in 2001 for various (including political) reasons just after i had worked on the nader-laduke campaign against bush and gore. i met ralph nader, talked with him and even had him sign my book. i'm probably one of the strongest anti-iraq war people you'll ever meet, not so much because i'm an "anti-anything" leftist radical (like others on this forum), but because I feel that the illegitimate head of state Bush started the war to steal from the US people to fill the coffers of halliburton and other multinational corporate interests who got all of the contract work.

maybe you should start "playing nice" and listen to others before you ignorantly point your finger and call people "fucking idiots" for one post you don't agree with. :dunno:

[Tarrantula]

Originally posted by Supa Dexta
This bothers me 0.00%.... Its war.

[kvg]

War is a terrible waste of life. Since the us has technology and training on the side of the developed world when there is a run in with "the enemy" guess who comes out ahead. I have Muslim friends who moved their family's from the middle east because they were persecuted for their belief that they should not look at non Muslims as the enemy. Is the better solution just to let them be?

[mazdavirgin]

Originally posted by Toma
Look at Iraq pre invasion... a progressive, high literacy rate, and relatively peaceful nation.

Then, post invasion... over 1,000,000 deaths caused by the invasion and destabilization, spread of radicalization, and more poeple than ever hate the west.

Yeah, "mission accomplished". :dunno:

Save your propaganda and lies, exaggerations, justification for those with your lack of intellect.

That is a red herring fallacy and you even managed to sneak in an ad hominem attack. We are talking about Afghanistan.

You mad?

[Feruk]

Originally posted by mazdavirgin


Yeah I guess you didn't get the memo but please see pictures of the Talibans work. It's far far worse than anything these couple idiots managed to do... I seem to recall them burning people alive and pouring acid on women's faces but eh I guess that is just filthy imperialist propaganda to keep the righteous arab fighters down! :rofl:

You can't possibly be saying that because the Taliban did it, NATO forces should be doing it now too... What happened to being held a higher moral code? Slaughtering unarmed civilians, whoever does it, for whatever reason, is wrong.

[broken_legs]

Originally posted by Guillermo


:thumbsup:

at least the US signed and holds themselves accountable to the geneva conventions. :dunno:

Most uninformed comment of the year

Ever heard of a little place called Guantanamo Bay? How about Abu-Grave? Habeas Corpus? "Torture"?


This might help you form a better opinion on how the US "holds themselves accountable to the geneva convention"

Taxi Ride To The Darkside - Documentary (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2987535946644608661#)

[Sugarphreak]

...

[mazdavirgin]

Originally posted by Feruk
You can't possibly be saying that because the Taliban did it, NATO forces should be doing it now too... What happened to being held a higher moral code? Slaughtering unarmed civilians, whoever does it, for whatever reason, is wrong.

I never made that argument, you are putting words in my mouth. However it is hypocritical to have Feruk, Toma, and broken_legs posting about atrocities committed by the Americans while ignoring the same is being done by another party. At least these Americans are now locked up for their crimes. I sure can't say the same about the Taliban. This just reminds me of how the above posters are selectively outraged. Palestinian killed by accident? RAGE! Israeli family including children murdered in their sleep not a peep. Funny how that works?


Originally posted by Sugarphreak
I think this is a tragic and certainly doesn't represent the majority of soldiers or the values of Western countries on any level

Yeah but that doesn't fit into the Toma's, Feruk's and broken_legs' agenda... Their world view requires the American soldiers to be child eating monsters.

[dexlargo]

Originally posted by Supa Dexta
This bothers me 0.00%.... Its war.
These acts are not acts of war, they're the actions of a group of soldiers that have used their position to become serial killers, killing civilians for sport, and tried to get away with it.

I would hesitate to blame the US overall for this - granted, they do have some responsibility for failing to prevent this - but I highly doubt that this activity was done with the knowledge or support of their superiors.

The US army wants to portray that they are white knights doing good work fighting terror and protecting the Afghanis from Al Qaida. The last thing that they want is this - It goes against everything that they are trying to represent.

I think it speaks volumes that the one soldier got 24 years - and he's the one who cut a deal and is testifying against the others. Expect very harsh penalties on all involved. And remember, time in military prison is very different from regular prison, it's much harsher.

[Toma]

When YOU are abroad, with YOUR troops one some elses soil, when YOUR troops are there to:

"Force democracy"
"Civilize the animals"
"Force Humanitarian Aid"

You better DAMN well make sure they are held not ONLY to Geneva standards, but MUCH higher.

You cannot preach the moral high ground, and then behave barbarically.

[broken_legs]

Originally posted by mazdavirgin


However it is hypocritical to have Feruk, Toma, and broken_legs posting about atrocities committed by the Americans while ignoring the same is being done by another party.

Yeah but that doesn't fit into the Toma's, Feruk's and broken_legs' agenda... Their world view requires the American soldiers to be child eating monsters.

^^ Not at all. I believe US soldiers are being abused by the powers that be. War is fcked up. Soldiers inevitably do crazy things. Is it their fault? NO. They didn't put themselves in a place where their boss tells them its OK to hate people and kill them - where racism is encouraged. The responsibility for that lies solely on management - IE the Government and the people that sent them into harms way.

(you will leave this out though and only focus on the anti-us argument and make up everything else)

Sounds to me like you are the one with the limited world view - as anyone who disagreees with you, is automatically 'crazy' or sides with the terrorists.

You can check my record. I've been posting atrocities committed by governments of: Yemen, Saudi, Syria, Libya, Egypt, Bahrain, Israel, Palestine, USA, etc...

YOU are the one who selectively ignores everything else I write, and focus in on the "anti-US" agenda.

You have no comment in any thread until there is a hint of any US involvement, then suddenly you swoop in as the voice of 'common sense' and 'moderation' against the 'radical' views of people that are just calling it like it is.

Quit justifying, open your eyes, call a duck a duck.

[CUG]

Originally posted by Modelexis


You're right, i bet there is a great story behind the picture of the soldier holding the dead child by the hair and giving the camera a 'thumbs up'

you god damn idiot.



http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20110328/pl_afp/afghanistanunrestusprosecutemedia

The guy posing with the kid got 24 years in prison.

Hate to say it, but I agree with you on this one. That last picture gave me chills.

This bothers me 100%. What, just because the kid is unfortunate enough to have been born in that area of the world means he's unjustly subjected to murder and disgrace thereafter? I'm glad those college rejects are doing jail time. Fucking animals.

[Type_B]

And im guessing it wouldn't bother anyone if it was the other way around?. A civilian posing with the dead corpse of a soldier?.

Either way how you look at it, its still human beings doing this to one another.

[FraserB]

No, if it was turned around and there were photos of someone doing this to a dead soldier people would be screaming about the savages and demanding that they turn the country into a glass parking lot.

[Lex350]

Since when has morality been apart of war on anyside? Clearly many of you don't understand what war is really about.

[Guillermo]

Originally posted by CUG


Hate to say it, but I agree with you on this one. That last picture gave me chills.

This bothers me 100%. What, just because the kid is unfortunate enough to have been born in that area of the world means he's unjustly subjected to murder and disgrace thereafter? I'm glad those college rejects are doing jail time. Fucking animals.

i still have to disagree. i've never been to war and can't even begin to understand the mentality of an 18 year old soldier fighting in a foreign land... all I know about those photos is what i've read in Rolling Stone, so i'm not going to take a hard stance either way except to restate what I first said in this thread: WAR IS HELL. :dunno:

EDIT: what i'm trying to say is that IMO the soldiers are just as "fucked" as the dead kids is.

[J-hop]

Originally posted by dexlargo

These acts are not acts of war, they're the actions of a group of soldiers that have used their position to become serial killers, killing civilians for sport, and tried to get away with it.

I would hesitate to blame the US overall for this - granted, they do have some responsibility for failing to prevent this - but I highly doubt that this activity was done with the knowledge or support of their superiors.

The US army wants to portray that they are white knights doing good work fighting terror and protecting the Afghanis from Al Qaida. The last thing that they want is this - It goes against everything that they are trying to represent.

I think it speaks volumes that the one soldier got 24 years - and he's the one who cut a deal and is testifying against the others. Expect very harsh penalties on all involved. And remember, time in military prison is very different from regular prison, it's much harsher.

^this, I think its almost comical how ignorant some people in north america are. They see filtered media meant to portray the US/Canada in the best light, and think we are the heroes, when in actuality, mass slaughters and needless murders are being committed by "the good guys".

Don't think i'm trying to disrespect the families who have lost people in the 9/11 incident. But hardly anyone was killed in that incident in comparison to the number of civilians the US has maliciously slaughtered in the middle east during their horribly run campaign.

This whole gong show in the middle east has been a huge failure and a huge embarrassment for me as a Canadian for the way our nation and the US have handled it.

[Godfuader]

UPDATE

Rogue soldiers can be held accountable? Aren't they part of armed forces because they have minimal competencies?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-15687522
http://www.dawn.com/2011/11/11/us-soldier-who-led-afghan-killings-jailed-for-life.html

What I find disturbing is that the defense reminded the courts of Sergeant Gibbs' wife and son when deciding on the punishment. The guy has a kid and can blatantly cut off another kid's finger and have his buddies pose with the body. I hope he wakes up every morning and pictures his son's corpse being abused like that. It would be an embarrassment to have a coward father like him.

[alloroc]

My ex boss spent a very long time serving in Afghanistan and was also in Bosnia (mass grave site) what some of the locals did in those areas goes WAY beyond what you see in those photos.

[desi112]

Bunch a retards in this thread that was cold blooded murder of a child not war

[desi112]

Originally posted by alloroc
My ex boss spent a very long time serving in Afghanistan and was also in Bosnia (mass grave site) what some of the locals did in those areas goes WAY beyond what you see in those photos.

What is your point? If someone does something bad it's ok to do something not as bad?

Especially when ur there in a nation building role

[GTS4tw]

Originally posted by broken_legs


Most uninformed comment of the year

Ever heard of a little place called Guantanamo Bay? How about Abu-Grave? Habeas Corpus? "Torture"?


This might help you form a better opinion on how the US "holds themselves accountable to the geneva convention"

Taxi Ride To The Darkside - Documentary (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2987535946644608661#)

Watched the Documentary end to end. Thought it was cute how they tell you at the beginning that a "PUC" is "Person Under Control" and strongly imply that means the person is compliant with his captors, later in the movie listening to the ex-guards talk it means "Person Under Control" of the US Military. Small difference that shows the bullshit that goes into propaganda videos. Don't try to pull the wool over intelligent peoples eyes and think that they wont call you on it. Same exact reason that 9-11 truth video they had to remake 50 times was bullshit, they figured no-one knew history or could read a book to see they were blatantly lying.

[Maxx Mazda]

Sorry, but this doesn't really bother me. I don't know why the soldier is smiling, but casualties happen.

[alloroc]

Originally posted by desi112


What is your point? If someone does something bad it's ok to do something not as bad?

Especially when ur there in a nation building role

My point is that we do not spend enough on the military nor is there enough help.

Spend the better part of two years constantly 'on station' viewing locals killing raping maiming gassing and torturing each other as well as digging up thousands of half rotting tortured bodies and you tend to lose touch with reality.

Yes it is the military's fault, but we need to do a better job of offering the kind of support it needs to prevent these types of things from happening.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[sh0ko]

agreed its war

but how many ppl are missing the fact it wasnt during combat that this happened


According to sworn statements, two soldiers – Cpl. Jeremy Morlock and Pfc. Andrew Holmes – staged the killing to make it look like they had been under attack. Ordering the boy to stand still, they crouched behind a mud wall, tossed a grenade at him and opened fire from close range. This photograph shows Mudin’s body lying by the wall where he was killed.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[DRKM]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak


I wasn't defending these guys, I am saying that some seriously bad stuff goes on in war... with or with out without combat being a factor.

To all of the people saying that this is war. There are rules of conduct to war. Thus war crimes.

He commited a war a war crime and got harshly punished. It is not OK to kill innocent civilians. If it is then we are no different then the Taliban cutting the noses off of children.

[CUG]

Originally posted by desi112

Especially when ur there in a nation building role Exactly.

[LollerBrader]

Originally posted by Supa Dexta
This bothers me 0.00%.... Its war.

It's unsurprising that that someone who lives a life of comfort, and has never experienced war, is unconcerned by it.

Apathy is but one of our many luxuries.

[snoop101]

So I dont agree with what they did, but sitting at a desk drinking tea or coffee is a lot different then when your being shot at every day or watching/hearing about your friend getting blown to bits from an ied.

I think the US did the right thing to show other troops though that even though you are proud about taking revenge out on the enemy, its still not right to glorify it.

[LollerBrader]

Originally posted by calgary403
I thought this guy's story is pretty interesting:

qNN2z4KHDps

The Taliban have been holding him captive for over a year. He has a bunch of videos on youtube.

Boo fucking hoo.

Should've stayed home.


At least he has a chance to see his family, unlike the many he's helped murder.

[BigMass]

Originally posted by Type_B
And im guessing it wouldn't bother anyone if it was the other way around?. A civilian posing with the dead corpse of a soldier?.


The other way around would be if Taliban troops are control of Calgary and a group of them decided it would be fun to do this to your kid. Then some moron fuckers in Afghanistan would be like, “whatever, we don’t give a shit it’s war. Lulz, back to playing Call of Duty” and writing up my list of "problems" http://forums.beyond.ca/st/344550/first-world-problems/

[Sugarphreak]

...

[BigMass]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak


So prior to the Taliban invasion, is the Calgary council cutting the noses & ears off of people's kids who vote against them as well in this hypothetical situation? Just wondering


that's a red herring.

You’re somehow implying the position that troops are in Afghanistan to help the Afghani people shrug off the chains of their oppressors. This just in, nobody gives a fuck about the Afghani people and if there was no strategic gain from being in Afghanistan then troops would not be in Afghanistan period. So if you’re going to argue for the reason why troops are in Afghanistan to begin with then get it right.

[CUG]

Originally posted by BigMass


that's a red herring.

You’re somehow implying the position that troops are in Afghanistan to help the Afghani people shrug off the chains of their oppressors. This just in, nobody gives a fuck about the Afghani people and if there was no strategic gain from being in Afghanistan then troops would not be in Afghanistan period. So if you’re going to argue for the reason why troops are in Afghanistan to begin with then get it right. That's wasn't really a red herring at all dude. It's a valid point....but your response is a valid response aside from that.

What IF the war was on our shores? What if a big army decided we were oppressed by the rules of law we live under and decided to liberate us, or force existential parameters on us? (at the root, it's whats happening) Yes, we have a better quality of life, but it's the only comparison that can be done for people who've never seen a bullet leave a barrel in anger to understand the gravity of the "war effort".

I'm surprised Bush even leaves his fucking ranch, let alone the country.

[BigMass]

Originally posted by CUG
That's wasn't really a red herring at all dude. It's a valid point....but your response is a valid response aside from that.

What IF the war was on our shores? What if a big army decided we were oppressed by the rules of law we live under and decided to liberate us, or force existential parameters on us? (at the root, it's whats happening) Yes, we have a better quality of life, but it's the only comparison that can be done for people who've never seen a bullet leave a barrel in anger to understand the gravity of the "war effort".

I'm surprised Bush even leaves his fucking ranch, let alone the country.

that's a really good point and my answer to that would be that the world is run by psychopathic nihilists. You have Brzezinski and his grand chessboard making strategic decisions based on numbers. 10,000 troops go in, 8000 come out, 2000 dead. 1,00,000 civilians killed. Strategic position x/y/z achieved. Political, economic and social factors always in balance. Don’t wanna kill too many people or the social outrage meter goes too high. If you do have to kill people make sure the propaganda machine is in full force to demonize a culture and it’s people to make them seem “less than human”.

The only difference between our “western democracies” and the Taliban is technology and information. We don’t need to cut off ears and noses and hands to influence elections, we rig elections or propagandize people into voting for the right candidate. We don’t need to kill those who oppose the government, we have media organizations working as full time propaganda machines to indoctrinate people into what the government says is truth. We don’t have to worry about rebellion, we pacify the masses through entertainment, sports, celebrity news, fatty sugar laden gluttonous foods and mindless consumerism. And if all else fails and a few slip through the cracks, then they ignore them, ridicule them, or heck if it’s only a few here and there we’ll just kill them.

Rather pathetic really watching people argue over who’s the bad guy or who’s right and who’s wrong and which group is better than the other. People are living the yuppie lifestyle in Calgary right now. If you were in Afghanistan and had your family killed by US troops you’d be out there with a rifle trying to kill as many Americans as possible. In the end we are all human.

[desi112]

war does not equal violations of humany rights and dignity.

[DRKM]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak


So prior to the Taliban invasion, is the Calgary council cutting the noses & ears off of people's kids who vote against them as well in this hypothetical situation? Just wondering




Stop quoting my posts unless you read them, I already made it clear that both sides have monsters and that I condemn them equally. When I say war is hell, it is because rules that typically apply are often ignored in the absence of consequences. This isn't something that will ever change in a war zone.

Nobody says it is ok to kill civilians, yet they are killed by both sides in basically every major conflict that has ever occurred.

Also the "We are no better than them" is a silly thing to apply to this equation, it implies that what a bunch of individual idiots (like the people featured by the OP) have done somehow represents the values of the entire side.

Although if you really want to get technical, the Taliban mandate officially includes injuring/killing civilians where as the other side of this conflict does not, and does move to condemn it when it occurs by rouge individuals.

Haha. Sorry Sugar, I was trying to quote the quote you had.
I am pretty sure that we are on the same side of this issue?