Client refuses to pay. Advice needed. Contractors please chime in.

[project240]

Cliff Notes Below.

2 weeks ago a couple of my gf's friends (of 8+ years) called her up and asked if I'd be willing to do some reno work for them. They had already received a lowball quote for $1500 and wanted approx 700 sqft of laminate installed, 250 sq ft of lino (in 2 bathrooms and the kitchen/entrance) as well as replace some countertops as well as a few other small miscellaneous jobs.

I agreed to do the work and help them out since I know their finances are probably a bit tighter than normal since they are expecting a baby in 3 months. I told them I couldn't do it for the amount they were quoted, but would try to be as close as possible.

Anyways, to make a long story short, these "friends" were a complete nightmare to deal with throughout the entire process, oftentimes being extremely unreasonable and downright bitchy/verbal abusive.

I completed 80-85% of the work over the previous 6 days and had about 1.5 days work remaining (200 sqft of laminate as well as the countertops left to install).

They had made some comments to me one morning which finally pushed me over the edge with them and I decided to pack up all of my tools and leave rather than stay and possibly get myself into a situation I would later regret.

They now refuse to pay for any of the work I completed (I was working 12 hour days and had a helper one day so a total of approx 80 hrs invested). Stupid me, because they were very close friends and the fact that I don't take too many side jobs, I didn't bother with a deposit or contract of any sort.

Is there anything I can do now? I've already looked into small claims as well as placing a lien on their property, however because I'm not licensed I don't think either of these are viable options. I've already learned a valuable lesson regarding contracts/deposits, but I'm still hoping there is a way I can get paid for the work I completed.

Any advice is appreciated...

Cliff Notes.
Take job for friends as favour.
Leave after completing 80-85% of job due to unreasonable behaviour.
"Friends" refuse to pay.
What do I do?

[Dave P]

Post up there names and address, and let beyond do its magic. hahaha

[gretz]

Too bad removing everything you've done isn't an option / may be difficult...

I've been f'd over by "friends" too often with favors... seems the more you try to help, the less it matters to the "beggars and choosers"...

[CMW403]

I'm not very familiar with this type of business but I'm guessing since you aren't licensed you can't put a lien on their property and since you never took a deposit or wrote a contract there isn't much you can do.

Honestly I think small claims court wouldn't be worth it for you.

I would let it boil down for a couple days and then go over there and try and talk to them sensibly. If that doesn't work then I'd walk in and start ripping up all the flooring and destroying any other renovations you did for free.



Originally posted by Dave P
Post up there names and address, and let beyond do its magic. hahaha


This will also work.

[Xtrema]

Did you take any $ up front before you start work?

[project240]

I should also add that I did just send out a letter via registered mail with a bill for the work which was completed.

I do still have the keys for their place and going back to their place and ripping everything up has crossed my mind on numerous occasions, however, I don't want to end up with a criminal record for vandalism or breaking and entering.

To be honest, this is part of the reason I ended up taking all my tools and leaving when I did. If I stayed, I don't even know what I would have done.

Anybody who knows me, knows that I am a very patient person and very level headed, but throughout the week they pushed me far past this point and I really can't remember being this upset/frustrated in quite some time.

[project240]

Originally posted by Xtrema
Did you take any $ up front before you start work?

No. Obviously I know now I should have, however it was a smallish job and my girlfriend had known them for 8 years and myself for almost 4 years.

My gf feels horrible about the situation and we both still can't believe the way they dealt with things/treated me.

[Type_S1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_meruit

Small claims court will rule in your favor based on Quantum meruit if you in fact did do work for them. The problem is if they will actually pay you if you take them to court. Call them and tell them you are going to contact a lawyer based on this if they do not pay you for the work you have completed. If they still refuse just file in small claims...easy as that because you will win.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Can your GF talk to them?

Maybe since you're already 85% done, you can just finish the work and have them pay you the agreed upon sum, as unpleasant as dealing with them may be.

Probably best to be as accommodating as possible just until you get your money, then chalk it up as a lesson learned which you have clearly mentioned you already have.

Or, if you're willing to invest the time/money, I don't see how you could possibly lose in court. I doubt they want to go to court either. Perhaps a threat would be enough, and offer them the alternative of letting you finish the work for full payment.

[oupzwrongthread]

Post up the names X2 - We haven't fucked with anyone for a long time.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by oupzwrongthread
Post up the names X2 - We haven't fucked with anyone for a long time.

I doubt he wants to ruin the lives of a couple of his GF's friends just yet.

[Jlude]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt


I doubt he wants to ruin the lives of a couple of his GF's friends just yet.

Why not? They clearly have no respect or give a shit about him and by extension, his girlfriend (their friend) so I say give them a taste of what life is like when people go about their lives with no integrity, as they clearly don't.

Post their names and info... they deserve to be fucked with.

[SlickA70]

Wow sounds like some trashy people.

Thats how far your kindness will take you now a days, sorry to hear man, I hope shit works out.

[davidI]

Yep, for $1500 it's worth filing in small claims if you have the time to deal with it.

I think it would be worth doing just for the satisfaction of sticking it to the a--holes to be honest.

Of course, the better bet would be to try and work it out amicably and take a negotiated settlement ($1200?) or get the full amount and finish the work.

I've had to deal with similar circumstances with tenants. "Friends" who took advantage of my generosity and cost me a lot of money in the end. Still trying to sort it out with them but it has certainly made me lose faith in people.

[project240]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt
Can your GF talk to them?

Or, if you're willing to invest the time/money, I don't see how you could possibly lose in court. I doubt they want to go to court either. Perhaps a threat would be enough, and offer them the alternative of letting you finish the work for full payment.

She's not really willing to talk with them at this point. She feels very hurt over what happened.

I think I will go the court route if necessary, just because I am a very spiteful person, but also because I strongly believe in principal and that's more what it is about at this point. I did work for them, so now, pay me.



Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt


I doubt he wants to ruin the lives of a couple of his GF's friends just yet.

I don't think she considers them to be friends anymore because of their behavior.

[Xtrema]

Sounds like court is next.

Regardless who it is, take money up front.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by project240

I don't think she considers them to be friends anymore because of their behavior.

OK, well that makes sense then I guess. I just assumed tit was a bigger deal because of the 8 years but if your GF doesn't consider them friends anymore, I will also vote to release their info to beyond :D .

[Z_Fan]

OP, posting their names is bad advice at this stage.

At this point, do what seems best to amicably resolve the problem. If you've got no open dialog with them - establish it again.

Generally, if you can collect 75% of what is owed - out of court, with out suing them, that'd be reasonable. Because while they owe you money, they also now have to find a new contractor and technically I'd say you are the one who breached the contract. (Despite it being under duress from your "friends")

A negotiated settlement is best for both parties.

All that aside, I think you've learned some valuable lessons. That, when applied in your future business conduct, will save you a fuck of a lot more than what you've lost on this job.

I think you know what those things are. :devil:

[Kg810]

If you're going to court, won't you need proof of your work? I don't know much about these types of situation, but I'd suggest you try to take some pictures and get some documentation of the work you did if you haven't already done so.

[max_boost]

I hate doing business with friends. People change so fast over money it's fucking ridiculous.

[Seth1968]

Anyways, to make a long story short, these "friends" were a complete nightmare to deal with throughout the entire process, oftentimes being extremely unreasonable and downright bitchy/verbal abusive.

What were they complaining about?

[ipeefreely]

I’d be careful… you can’t take money up front without a Prepaid Contracting Licence (http://www.servicealberta.gov.ab.ca/1254.cfm).

Lots of shady people screw people of money that way (never show up, do a shitty ½ ass job then leave a huge mess).

(Not saying you are OP.)



Originally posted by Xtrema
Did you take any $ up front before you start work?



Originally posted by project240
... however because I'm not licensed I don't think either of these are viable options. I've already learned a valuable lesson regarding contracts/deposits, ....

[MK1GTI]

Originally posted by max_boost
I hate doing business with friends. People change so fast over money it's fucking ridiculous.

Exactly, I think the damage to your relationship with them has already been done, I'd treat them like any other non-paying customer.

[colt22]

Small claims court- you'll win based on the fact work was preformed (quantum meruit), and that in your case a verbal contract is in fact legally binding.

Before that it may be best to try and reach a settlement; you want to avoid the litigation costs as much as possible unless absolutely necessary.

[LadyLuck]

Originally posted by project240
I agreed to do the work and help them out since [b]I know their finances are probably a bit tighter than normal since they are expecting a baby in 3 months.

This.
Threaten with taking them to court first...with finances tight and baby on the way they might just break and end up paying you instead of going through court.

Sad to see that people take advantage of folks like you that only want to help out. Hope it all works out quick buddy :)

[Seth1968]

Originally posted by LadyLuck


This.
Threaten with taking them to court first...with finances tight and baby on the way they might just break and end up paying you instead of going through court.

Sad to see that people take advantage of folks like you that only want to help out. Hope it all works out quick buddy :)

WTF?

What's the customers side of the story?

Oh wait...you don't know.

[LadyLuck]

^ You are absolutely right, call them up...get em on here and lets get this whole thing straightened out. Oh wait...

[Jeremiah]

Wow that seems pretty cheap to do that type of work - Go to small claims or at least threaten to.

Draft up a fake letter on your "lawyers" letterhead and drop it off in their mailbox :D

[Guillermo]

well, to be fair you didn't finish the job. I can't blame them for not paying you. I wouldn't pay for an incomplete job, either.

why did you walk out on them? if they are close friends, you must know how to deal with their personalities... can't you just toughen up a bit and finish the job for them? you'll get paid, they'll get their floor, and you'll be helping out your "very close" friends. :dunno:

(I get super pissed at my brother sometimes, too, but at the end of the day he's still my brother and i would help him in any way i could.)

[CUG]

Put a lien on their home. Other than that, take the cost of materials and 10% labour up front next time. That sucks dude.


Originally posted by ipeefreely
I’d be careful… you can’t take money up front without a Prepaid Contracting Licence (http://www.servicealberta.gov.ab.ca/1254.cfm).

Lots of shady people screw people of money that way (never show up, do a shitty ½ ass job then leave a huge mess).

(Not saying you are OP.)
That's deposits. I think you have to put up a 5 or $10k bond with the city to get that no? Materials are a diff story.

[msommers]

Originally posted by max_boost
I hate doing business with friends. People change so fast over money it's fucking ridiculous.

Amen. Mixing friends and money always turns into a cluster fuck. It's why I never lend or ask for money unless it's from the Bank of Mom :rofl:

[Jry_79]

Originally posted by Guillermo
well, to be fair you didn't finish the job. I can't blame them for not paying you. I wouldn't pay for an incomplete job, either.

why did you walk out on them? if they are close friends, you must know how to deal with their personalities... can't you just toughen up a bit and finish the job for them? you'll get paid, they'll get their floor, and you'll be helping out your "very close" friends. :dunno:

(I get super pissed at my brother sometimes, too, but at the end of the day he's still my brother and i would help him in any way i could.)

+1 if I was a client and the contractor walked out on me, good luck getting paid!

How bad did they treat you? if they were only critique'in your work, shouldn't you be use to those demands from a client especially in that industry? I don't know how you can walk off the job if they complained about workmanship, schedule or anything else applicable, maybe there was another side to the story?

I just can't fathom how friends would do this or treat each other this way especially since your giving them a deal on the work? somethings not adding up here.

Either they are really douchey fuk'd up friends or you did really shietty work even with your discounted cost or you can't handle an ounce of critisim?

Anyways my advice is to get your GF to do damage control and finish up the job, chalk it up to a lesson learnt

Good luck

[dj_patm]

I agree with the above two posts...

What was there critisicm? Sure you're doing them a favor so they shouldn't be pricks about it but if they are paying customers and their criticism is warrented and within reason, then why should they pay you for an unfinished job? Especially in full.

I think the best thing to do is damage control and finish the job.

Sure you guys had a valid contract but you breached it when you left the job unfinished.

[heavyfuel]

If you're not licensed and you didn't complete the job you should count your blessings that YOU're not the one being sued. I feel for ya, but I'm sure you learned a valuable lesson. What exactly pushed you over the edge to pack up your tools?

[Rat Fink]

.

[rob the knob]

also be careful

sounds like you do job with no contract and no paper work.

that means no trail and no taxman. if you take them to court they can make an issue of this and report you to the tax man Canada Revenue Agency that you do more under the table tax evasion work



Originally posted by project240
Cliff Notes Below.

2 weeks ago a couple of my gf's friends (of 8+ years) called her up and asked if I'd be willing to do some reno work for them. They had already received a lowball quote for $1500 and wanted approx 700 sqft of laminate installed, 250 sq ft of lino (in 2 bathrooms and the kitchen/entrance) as well as replace some countertops as well as a few other small miscellaneous jobs.

I agreed to do the work and help them out since I know their finances are probably a bit tighter than normal since they are expecting a baby in 3 months. I told them I couldn't do it for the amount they were quoted, but would try to be as close as possible.

Anyways, to make a long story short, these "friends" were a complete nightmare to deal with throughout the entire process, oftentimes being extremely unreasonable and downright bitchy/verbal abusive.

I completed 80-85% of the work over the previous 6 days and had about 1.5 days work remaining (200 sqft of laminate as well as the countertops left to install).

They had made some comments to me one morning which finally pushed me over the edge with them and I decided to pack up all of my tools and leave rather than stay and possibly get myself into a situation I would later regret.

They now refuse to pay for any of the work I completed (I was working 12 hour days and had a helper one day so a total of approx 80 hrs invested). Stupid me, because they were very close friends and the fact that I don't take too many side jobs, I didn't bother with a deposit or contract of any sort.

Is there anything I can do now? I've already looked into small claims as well as placing a lien on their property, however because I'm not licensed I don't think either of these are viable options. I've already learned a valuable lesson regarding contracts/deposits, but I'm still hoping there is a way I can get paid for the work I completed.

Any advice is appreciated...

Cliff Notes.
Take job for friends as favour.
Leave after completing 80-85% of job due to unreasonable behaviour.
"Friends" refuse to pay.
What do I do?

[project240]

Just to address a few of the comments here, of course there is much more to the story, but I've provided all the necessary information.


Originally posted by Seth1968


What were they complaining about?

They purchased very cheap laminate flooring and one of the boards I installed had a small nick in the corner (less than the size of a fingernail). I happened to miss this when installing and didn't notice it until I had completed the room. Since I had the small piece from the board I put some tape on it for the time being and planned to glue it in place. (which would have left a repair that would not have been noticeable unless it was pointed out)

When I talked with them about it, they absolutely freaked out and demanded I remove everything and reinstall a new piece. They had a very tight timeline (which initially began as 9 days and was shortened to 7 days midway through the project) and I knew it was going to be tight to finish on time.

I did however end up ripping up all the flooring in the room needed to replace this single board for them at my own cost.

The second issue they complained about was after their lino was installed (again, they used the cheapest material possible) I was moving their washer/dryer back into place for them and I ended up tearing the lino (about a 1"x2" tear).

Yes, this was my fault. I told them about it and explained how this would be fixed. (anybody who has installed lino before knows it's fairly easy to repair and patch seamlessly). The area damaged was right against the wall in their storage room. They demanded I rip up all of the lino (I had a helper this day and we installed lino in their kitchen/entryway/storage room all as one seamless piece) and replace everything. I tried to reason with them and even offered to replace the entire storage room lino at my cost and have a single seam underneath the doorway. (we had initially agreed there would be 2 seams in the lino at each doorway, but I spent the extra time since they were friends to install everything as one piece). Again they refused and wanted everything ripped up and redone, which in my opinion is completely unreasonable given the fact we had initially agreed there would be 2 seams and now they will not accept there being 1.



Originally posted by Seth1968


WTF?

What's the customers side of the story?

Oh wait...you don't know.

Hope the above helps to answer this.



Originally posted by Guillermo
well, to be fair you didn't finish the job. I can't blame them for not paying you. I wouldn't pay for an incomplete job, either.

why did you walk out on them? if they are close friends, you must know how to deal with their personalities... can't you just toughen up a bit and finish the job for them? you'll get paid, they'll get their floor, and you'll be helping out your "very close" friends. :dunno:



Yes, you're right, I didn't finish the job. In my own defense, I can honestly say this is the first job I have ever done which I did not complete. The reason I left was because of their decreased timeline and the fact that I was extremely frustrated/upset and I knew I couldn't finish the work up to my own standards at that point. If the timeline hadn't been shortened by 2 full days midway through the project I would have just gone home that day and came back the next day to finish.



Originally posted by Jry_79



I just can't fathom how friends would do this or treat each other this way especially since your giving them a deal on the work? somethings not adding up here.

Either they are really douchey fuk'd up friends or you did really shietty work even with your discounted cost or you can't handle an ounce of critisim?

Anyways my advice is to get your GF to do damage control and finish up the job, chalk it up to a lesson learnt

Good luck

Again, hope the above helps to answer part of this.

They had initially received a quote from a guy off kijiji for $1500. I was upfront with the fact that this amount is much less than the job should be priced at and only because they were friends I would work at a reduced cost and try to stay under $2000. I had a contractor friend helping me install lino one day and we talked about the job and he laughed at me when I told him the price and said his price would have been closer to double that amount.

My girlfriend told them twice to hire this guy instead of me if they were very concerned with price, but they wanted me to do it instead because they've seen some of my work before and knew I would do a better job and everything would be done properly.

Throughout the entire job, I spent extra time on everything for them(of course, at my own cost), which not only did they not appreciate, but continually tried to take advantage of.

[project240]

Originally posted by rob the knob
also be careful

sounds like you do job with no contract and no paper work.

that means no trail and no taxman. if you take them to court they can make an issue of this and report you to the tax man Canada Revenue Agency that you do more under the table tax evasion work




That wouldn't be a problem for me. The only other sidejobs I've ever taken have been for family at a cost of $0.

[Guillermo]

so, you:

1) installed a broken board, and finished the rest of the floor without noticing it and/or being to lazy to take up the boards you laid since to fix it

2) ripped their linoleum while replacing a large appliance.

i'm sorry OP, but you can't blame your mistakes on the fact that the clients purchased cheap materials. IMO, you are absolutely in the wrong here. I don't think these people owe you a cent.

time to call in Mike Holmes. :dunno:

[swak]

Originally posted by Guillermo
so, you:

1) installed a broken board, and finished the rest of the floor without noticing it and/or being to lazy to take up the boards you laid since to fix it

2) ripped their linoleum while replacing a large appliance.

i'm sorry OP, but you can't blame your mistakes on the fact that the clients purchased cheap materials. IMO, you are absolutely in the wrong here. I don't think these people owe you a cent.

time to call in Mike Holmes. :dunno:

Did you not read the whole story? :banghead:

1) There was a broken board, but on his own dime, fixed it
2) There was ripped lino, but on his own dime, fixed it
.... and even after all of that the client was still unhappy. IMO, they didnt plan on paying you in the first place if this was the attitude you were dealing with.

[Guillermo]

Originally posted by swak


Did you not read the whole story? :banghead:

1) There was a broken board, but on his own dime, fixed it
2) There was ripped lino, but on his own dime, fixed it
.... and even after all of that the client was still unhappy. IMO, they didnt plan on paying you in the first place if this was the attitude you were dealing with.

I think you're the one who didn't read the whole story. :banghead: No where did he say he replaced the lino - in fact, it sounds like he walked out before doing that


Originally posted by project204
Yes, this was my fault. I told them about it and explained how this would be fixed. (anybody who has installed lino before knows it's fairly easy to repair and patch seamlessly). The area damaged was right against the wall in their storage room. They demanded I rip up all of the lino (I had a helper this day and we installed lino in their kitchen/entryway/storage room all as one seamless piece) and replace everything. I tried to reason with them and even offered to replace the entire storage room lino at my cost and have a single seam underneath the doorway. (we had initially agreed there would be 2 seams in the lino at each doorway, but I spent the extra time since they were friends to install everything as one piece). Again they refused and wanted everything ripped up and redone, which in my opinion is completely unreasonable given the fact we had initially agreed there would be 2 seams and now they will not accept there being 1.

[project240]

Originally posted by Guillermo
so, you:

1) installed a broken board, and finished the rest of the floor without noticing it and/or being to lazy to take up the boards you laid since to fix it

2) ripped their linoleum while replacing a large appliance.

i'm sorry OP, but you can't blame your mistakes on the fact that the clients purchased cheap materials. IMO, you are absolutely in the wrong here. I don't think these people owe you a cent.

time to call in Mike Holmes. :dunno:



Next time, please read the whole explanation before offering your opinion.

Thanks

[stevieo]

Originally posted by Guillermo
so, you:

1) installed a broken board, and finished the rest of the floor without noticing it and/or being to lazy to take up the boards you laid since to fix it

2) ripped their linoleum while replacing a large appliance.

i'm sorry OP, but you can't blame your mistakes on the fact that the clients purchased cheap materials. IMO, you are absolutely in the wrong here. I don't think these people owe you a cent.

time to call in Mike Holmes. :dunno:

seriously, why do you even talk/post on this site?
you're so fucking annoying. always throwing your 2 cents around like we're begging for your charity. shut your fucking mouth :drama:

[Type_S1]

The amount of idiots in this thread is funny...
just because you don't FINISH a job doesn't mean they can withhold pay. You have to pay for the work completed the problem is agreeing on the amount completed.

[max_boost]

I thought it was also normal to pay by progress?

The last renos we did for our rentals we paid as we went along. Everytime they finished something major, we paid the contractors accordingly. :dunno:

[project240]

Originally posted by Type_S1
The amount of idiots in this thread is funny...
just because you don't FINISH a job doesn't mean they can withhold pay. You have to pay for the work completed the problem is agreeing on the amount completed.


Exactly. Being conservative, I completed 80-85% of the work and am attempting to recover 60% of the job cost.

[project240]

Originally posted by max_boost
I thought it was also normal to pay by progress?

The last renos we did for our rentals we paid as we went along. Everytime they finished something major, we paid the contractors accordingly. :dunno:

Yup. I should have done this, but am too trusting at times. At the very least I take away a few valuable lessons learned...

[Guillermo]

Originally posted by stevieo


seriously, why do you even talk/post on this site?
you're so fucking annoying. always throwing your 2 cents around like we're begging for your charity. shut your fucking mouth :drama:

wow, sorry man, I thought this was a thread asking for advice.

[Guillermo]

Originally posted by project240




Next time, please read the whole explanation before offering your opinion.

Thanks

erm, since I'm such a bad reader, mind pointing out what i'm missing here? from what i can tell, you didn't replace the lino. i don't see why you should be paid for ripped lino.

[project240]

Originally posted by Guillermo


erm, since I'm such a bad reader, mind pointing out what i'm missing here? from what i can tell, you didn't replace the lino. i don't see why you should be paid for ripped lino.



Originally posted by project240



Exactly. Being conservative, I completed 80-85% of the work and am attempting to recover 60% of the job cost.

[Guillermo]

LOL, so the lino wasn't repaired, as I've been saying all along. not sure why you're jumping on my back about not reading.

i'm sorry if steveio doesn't think i should post on these forums, but i'm just trying to help. it's obviously difficult for you to see their point of view, since you guys got into a giant fight over this. as I said in my first post, you should just suck it up and go finish the job the way they want it. you'll get paid, and it will fix your friendship.

[HuMz]

Originally posted by Guillermo


erm, since I'm such a bad reader, mind pointing out what i'm missing here? from what i can tell, you didn't replace the lino. i don't see why you should be paid for ripped lino.

Well to start the first problem was fixed completely by re-doing the laminate.

He offered to fix the second issue by re-doing the entire storage room in turn adding ONE seam. They initially agreed upon TWO seams, therefore he was still going above and beyond what they wanted.

Factor in that both problems were minor and could have been patched without ever noticing. And that they were already getting it done at a reasonable cost, I'd say the clients were being completely unreasonable.

Time is money, and if there not willing to resolve the issue because they were being unreasonable then I'd be seeing them in court.

[FraserB]

I would just take it as a lesson learned and leave it. Chances are its gonna cost them a bunch to get it finished, they learn one too.

[Disoblige]

Reading this thread made my blood boil a bit. What shitty "friends", especially regarding their treatment towards OP while he was trying to help them out (i.e. verbally abusive, etc. throughout the job). :(

[300zxfairlday]

Court would be a uphill battle since no paperwork was cOmpleted it's jut your word against theirs. What proof do you have that you did any of the work?
Shitty situation!

[project240]

Originally posted by 300zxfairlday
Court would be a uphill battle since no paperwork was cOmpleted it's jut your word against theirs. What proof do you have that you did any of the work?
Shitty situation!


My gf just showed me she has some audio recordings of several conversations with them talking about the project/timeline/etc.

I just listened to them and at least they confirm the work that was being done as well as the clients admitting to changing the timeline and being extremely unorganized.

Still hoping I can reach an amicable solution prior to this, but if not, I'm sure this will aide my case if there is any doubt whether or not any work was in fact done.

[UndrgroundRider]

Wow. I cannot believe the number of people siding with the OP on this.

The homeowners complained when the quality of the OP's workmanship was poor. How is that unreasonable in any way? The OP was the one who acted unprofessionally when he stormed out of a job without reaching some sort of arrangement with the home owner.

All of the things the home owners complained about were totally legit. The OP installed a damaged board of laminate, so they complained. The OP ripped the lino, so they complained. Wouldn't you? If you're paying the extra dollars to have someone "do it right", you don't want damaged floors that have to be repaired before they're even walked on.

The story that came out after 3 pages is totally different from the "verbal abuse" the OP claimed initially.

[FraserB]

I wouldn't shorten a timeline mid project or change the guidelines of the project in the middle (lino seams) without having a discussion about it with the contractor about it.

They didn't want to pay to have it done, they wanted as cheap as possible . And they cut an already short timeline shorter and make changes without mentioning them mid project. As for the lino rip and the laminate, the OP fixed the laminate at a loss and offered to provide a fix for the lino. A fix that would be near impossible to tell and under a washer to boot.

Its retarded that people can't do work on a handshake and their word anymore. It seems that you need a bulletproof contract even for "friends".

[Isaiah]

The OP did some work for me some time ago which was completed on-time and on-budget. I met up with him several times and will state unequivocally that he is straight up and legit.

I will also state that his workmanship was top-notch and I would not hesitate to hire him again. I found his personality to be very easygoing and mild-mannered and actually thought he was a really nice guy.

[Ven]

I'm glad the OP got to see the true nature of his "friends". Tell them to get fucked and see ya in small claims. Regardless if you get anything or not it's going to be a big inconvenience for them and a source of stress. Perfect! If you do get something, then great. Anyway, business and friends don't mix. And stay away from broke ass lowest bidder clients, that's asking for trouble.

[TomcoPDR]

Apparently some people never seen OP's work http://forums.beyond.ca/showthread.php?s=&threadid=306599&perpage=20&highlight=&pagenumber=1

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v707/project240/butcherblock063.jpg

I have no problem believing OP is over qualified for the reno described.


Only thing I can suggest to you man, take this as a loss/lesson... Hopefully C_Dave (tile Dave) chimes in or talks to you privately, I know he's got strong opinions about trades people not getting paid for their time/work. lol.. I'll talk to you in PM's too, but I'd just whine and whine till the cows come home.

I've just accept it as it is, human nature is like that man... and don't think time has any correlation to trust neither, that, I learned a long time ago too... For example, just because you've known a hottie since kindergarden, it doesn't mean she's gonna trust you with your hands down her pants; anymore than some smooth ass tapout jaggerbomb grease ball she just met at the bar.

It's all in the leverage how the player plays... I enjoy your woodwork, but my friend, you...... just got played. But welcome to the club. :(

Are they Asian friends? (his gf's azn, that's why I'm asking)... maybe spread it among their rich azn network, embrass them that way, SOMETIMES it'll work.

Good luck and I hope you get your money for your hard work... but honestly, just keep this lesson ALWAYS tucked inside your shirt pocket before helping anyone.

[DeeK]

Originally posted by Jlude


Why not? They clearly have no respect or give a shit about him and by extension, his girlfriend (their friend) so I say give them a taste of what life is like when people go about their lives with no integrity, as they clearly don't.

Post their names and info... they deserve to be fucked with.
This.

Then take em to court.

[calgary403]

Originally posted by stevieo


seriously, why do you even talk/post on this site?
you're so fucking annoying. always throwing your 2 cents around like we're begging for your charity. shut your fucking mouth :drama:


+1!!

:werd: :werd: :werd:

My parents have a contracting business and as shitty as this is to say it's an almost unavoidable part of the business sometimes.

I hope everything works out for you.

Ps: I would probably go rip out all the work I had put in. But PROFESSIONALLY/REASONABLY speaking that is probably the wrong decision to make.

[HuMz]

Originally posted by UndrgroundRider
Wow. I cannot believe the number of people siding with the OP on this.

The homeowners complained when the quality of the OP's workmanship was poor. How is that unreasonable in any way? The OP was the one who acted unprofessionally when he stormed out of a job without reaching some sort of arrangement with the home owner.

All of the things the home owners complained about were totally legit. The OP installed a damaged board of laminate, so they complained. The OP ripped the lino, so they complained. Wouldn't you? If you're paying the extra dollars to have someone "do it right", you don't want damaged floors that have to be repaired before they're even walked on.

The story that came out after 3 pages is totally different from the "verbal abuse" the OP claimed initially.

So when was there anything said about the poor quality of worksmanship from the OP?

Some of you need to Google "lino" and "laminate" before you come in here and play devils advocate without fully understanding how the two types of flooring are installed.

And no accidently tearing a small rip then offering to re-do the entire storage room doesn't count.

[Clever]

I feel you, I posted a thread like this a few years back except it was one of my good friend's brother who was the contractor that I hired to reno my basement, never finished it after I have made the full payment. Taught me a lesson, so never again am I doing business with "friends". I would go to small claims without even blinking, there really is no salvaging the relationship here unless they change their minds and disregards egos and such. Not likely though, good luck.

[project240]

Originally posted by FraserB
I wouldn't shorten a timeline mid project or change the guidelines of the project in the middle (lino seams) without having a discussion about it with the contractor about it.

This. 2 days after starting they told me I had to be finished by Tuesday night instead of Wednesday. On Friday morning, they told me I had to be finished by Monday night.

I worked over the entire weekend and actually brought in another guy on Sunday just trying to meet their timeline, which was shortened twice as well as extra small work added.





Originally posted by Isaiah
The OP did some work for me some time ago which was completed on-time and on-budget. I met up with him several times and will state unequivocally that he is straight up and legit.

I will also state that his workmanship was top-notch and I would not hesitate to hire him again. I found his personality to be very easygoing and mild-mannered and actually thought he was a really nice guy.

Thanks Christian, I appreciate the kind words.

[project240]

Originally posted by TomcoPDR
Apparently some people never seen OP's work http://forums.beyond.ca/showthread.php?s=&threadid=306599&perpage=20&highlight=&pagenumber=1

Are they Asian friends? (his gf's azn, that's why I'm asking)... maybe spread it among their rich azn network, embrass them that way, SOMETIMES it'll work.

Good luck and I hope you get your money for your hard work... but honestly, just keep this lesson ALWAYS tucked inside your shirt pocket before helping anyone.

Thanks Tom!

Yes, they were asian.

It's a bit of a tough pill to swallow. Sometimes being the nice guy isn't all it's cracked up to be.

[davidI]

Originally posted by project240

It's a bit of a tough pill to swallow. Sometimes being the nice guy isn't all it's cracked up to be.

Perhaps you should finish the job, and ensure a pile of dead fish find their way into the duct work :thumbsup:

[SJW]

I think you should burn their house to the ground.

[nickyh]

I'm curious about something and i hope I am not hijacking the thread.

But i've dealt with one trade who quoted us for a deck build, he was a private contractor at the time and did not operate a business, this was more of a side job.
We did up the contract and he did the work, but when it came time to pay, the side job became his full time job. The amount quoted suddenly ballooned.

How does a homeowner protect onself from the inflation from quote time to final payment? If you miscalculated materials and labour how is that fair to me? I may have picked someone else since the final price may have been higher than another guy.

OP - I feel for you. It's a harsh reality to do business with friends and family, money creates so many problems - that's why I make sure i have everything in writing. My husband thinks I am Type A to the max but you never know when you need to protect yourself. I hope you get this resolved.

[Merritt]

Sorry to see this happen to you. I would definitely advise to provide a letter agreement with clients' signature on it next time. Everytime you do something for a client, I would definitely give out agreement or contract copies with their signature on it. It's better than nothing, and this could be used as a solid evidence in court as well in case anything unexpected happens. Take care & good luck.

[Jry_79]

Originally posted by nickyh
I'm curious about something and i hope I am not hijacking the thread.

But i've dealt with one trade who quoted us for a deck build, he was a private contractor at the time and did not operate a business, this was more of a side job.
We did up the contract and he did the work, but when it came time to pay, the side job became his full time job. The amount quoted suddenly ballooned.

How does a homeowner protect onself from the inflation from quote time to final payment? If you miscalculated materials and labour how is that fair to me? I may have picked someone else since the final price may have been higher than another guy.

OP - I feel for you. It's a harsh reality to do business with friends and family, money creates so many problems - that's why I make sure i have everything in writing. My husband thinks I am Type A to the max but you never know when you need to protect yourself. I hope you get this resolved.


There are many factors regarding holding a contractor to their initial quotation, but my two cents would be is if you (the client)discussed in FULL DETAIL the scope of work, who's responsible for what (example who is in charge of procuring materials etc) and went over proposed design of the deck and he/she provided a quotation, then I would hold it to him/her.

If you (the client) makes any changes to the initial design etc. while the work is in progress, then I feel it's realistic for the contractor to let you know how much and how long your "minor" changes will affect the project. At the end of the day it's up to the client to understand the reprucussions (cost/time) and approve if necessary and It's also the responsibility of the contractor to make fully aware of how a desicion change can alter the above factors.

If the contractor takes longer then expected with no change on your part but miscalculated materials and labor, fuk him, he needs to re-look his quotation skills, most contractors who know exactly what they are doing and have the experience will not be in a situation where their quotation balloons.

[Disoblige]

If things don't work out, I vote for posting the names of the couple. Pretty sure some people on Beyond will know of them, and words spread (especially with Asians)

:D :rofl:

[kvg]

Three things I have learned NEVER to count.
1. Being on budget
2. Being on time
3. Being perfect
When it does happens I'm thrilled.

My parents built luxury homes in Vancouver while I was growing up, and my father owned a flooring company so I think I understand your situation. I remember on a house my parents were building the contractor stained roughly 1500sq/ft of hardwood flooring the wrong color, thats a fuck up. Things happen like what you have stated, and you did go above and beyond to correct them. I think your in the right and it was probably better for you to leave the situation than to loose it on them.

[kvg]

Oh if you have a key you could always go back and take their front door. I bet they will pay you in a timely manner. It worked for my friend who is also a contractor(painter), the owner called the police and the police told them they should pay him.:thumbsup:

[Hounddog]

Originally posted by kvg
Oh if you have a key you could always go back and take their front door.

Too funny!!! Priceless. I would love to see their reaction!

[project240]

Originally posted by kvg
Oh if you have a key you could always go back and take their front door. I bet they will pay you in a timely manner.


Originally posted by Hounddog


Too funny!!! Priceless. I would love to see their reaction!


:rofl:

I Like it. In the letter I sent out, I gave them until May 15 for payment to be received. After that I'll try small claims... If at that time nothing has worked and they still haven't changed their locks, this could at least provide a little leverage... :rofl: and entertainment.

[max_boost]

Originally posted by kvg
Oh if you have a key you could always go back and take their front door. I bet they will pay you in a timely manner. It worked for my friend who is also a contractor(painter), the owner called the police and the police told them they should pay him.:thumbsup:

Winner.

I swear that is the best suggestion ever. :eek: :thumbsup:

[Bladeh]

Originally posted by max_boost


Winner.

I swear that is the best suggestion ever. :eek: :thumbsup:

Only problem is they would complain about his shitty workmanship removing the door ;)

Hope you get something sorted OP