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View Full Version : Humane treatment of live stock



syritis
05-05-2011, 06:50 AM
so i saw this video today well most of it. i couldn't watch the whole thing which is odd for me because i've never had an issue with watching faces of death videos. but i found this really disturbing. I've been to several farms around calgary so i know that not all farms are as bad as this video shows.
but it got me wondering.
would you pay slightly more for meat products if you knew the live stock was treated and euthanized in a humane manner?

I watched a show years ago that said happier and healthier cows produce more milk. and I'd imagine that having better conditions would reduce dead loss. so i'm thinking that not all the cost of such actions would be passed onto the consumer.

here's a link. to the video that got me thinking.

It contains graphic content that may be disturbing to some individuals, views discretion is advised.

Click here to watch the video,
http://www.meatvideo.com/

core_upt
05-05-2011, 09:14 AM
Make no mistake about it, farming is BIG BIG BIG business. I still think (perhaps naively) that farms in Canada are better than the US, but animals aren't treated as animals - they are simply flesh bags of money to be maximized.
Factory farming is one of the worst things to happen to north america in the past 30 years, though as long as food is 'cheap' at the store then it won't matter.
I'd like to say I'd be willing to pay more for more ethically treated food, but more often than not, I'm going to go with what is cheapest, which is sad. A 10% premium would be well worth it for me, but it's a lot more than that for small farm, organically raised food.

OP - watch Food Inc. if you are interested in more about factory farming.

Oh, and prepare to get flamed hard for questioning animal welfare in Alberta.

Kloubek
05-05-2011, 09:30 AM
Well that video was disturbing.

But it is clearly made to be as upsetting as possible and to gain maximum shock value. Carbon Dioxide poisoning is not painful, as far as I know. It causes symptoms similar to Carbon Monoxide from what I've read.

I'm not going to say that the general actions of farms here are or are not humane, but I can guarantee this video shows the worst of the worst and makes me angry not just because I can see the inhumane treatment of these particular animals, but also because I know that some producer somewhere is basically laughing at me because their propaganda machine is working.

I'm going to continue to get my meat in a bag or white foam plate, and try not to think of it. Because when it comes down to it, I'm gonna eat meat one way or another. But I, for one, would be willing to pay a little more to ensure the animals were treated well. However, it would be next to impossible to provide this kind of guarantee.

.norco.
05-05-2011, 07:20 PM
Thats pretty harsh, what gives with the guy beating the shit outta that little cow? :dunno:

Redlined_8000
05-05-2011, 09:51 PM
finally beyond is back (anyone else crash?)

anyway...


That was pretty hard to watch... I dont know how some people can do that everyday.

Well considering how much healthier grass fed meat can be for your body, that alone is worth 10% to me. Other factory raised animals are full of hormones and fed different foods than they arent suppose to eat, grass fed free roam is the way to go imo.

However, hardly think that your average fat ass mc donalds eating American cares less.

Guillermo
05-05-2011, 09:56 PM
for me, the worst part was when that guy was pitchforking, punching, tire ironing and repeatedly jumpiung on heads of little cows. :guns: :guns: :guns:

spike98
05-05-2011, 10:12 PM
I guess im the only one that does care about how the meat is treated before it becomes my hamburger?

Farming is business. They will do what ever is possible to maximize profit. Be it the hormones, gene therapy, or killing methods. If it saves money, they will do it.

These animals are raised to be put into our plates. It is like this ALL OVER THE WORLD. Worse i bet in western societies.

Little Dragon
05-05-2011, 11:29 PM
What. The. Fuck.

syritis
05-06-2011, 03:50 AM
don't get me wrong, i'm a hardcore meatatarian. but like the heart check logo is only available on foods that meet the criteria of the canada food guide. i was thinking would it be so hard for another company to only put their logo on food produced by humane farms? if i saw that logo i'd probably pick up that product before one that cost 1-2$ less.

another point that a friend brought up. any hunter knows that the less stressed out the animal is the better the meat tastes. something about the adrenalin or amino acids or something like that that gets released and stays in the meat once dead.
so perhaps top shelf meat is already treated better?

spikerS
05-06-2011, 08:23 AM
i don't give a shit really as long as I have a steak on my plate, I don't care how it gets there.

Dave P
05-06-2011, 08:29 AM
I am assuming that vid is worst case senerio propaganda. Would be interested to see how the average farm is.

But no, I wouldnt pay more.

desi112
05-06-2011, 08:46 AM
I would pay alott more if i was guaranteed that livestock was treated well before and during butchering

sputnik
05-06-2011, 09:23 AM
Originally posted by Dave P
I am assuming that vid is worst case senerio propaganda.

:werd:

Videos like this are always pushed by a single sided agenda and are NEVER balanced.

Might as well have Kim Jong Il make a documentary about the United States.

Tik-Tok
05-06-2011, 09:37 AM
Call me callous, but I don't care how the thing dies. It is a meatbag of money for the corporations, but more importantly it's my food, and I'm not in a position to raise and grow my own.

However, I would gladly pay more (and do, when I can) for a guarantee that there's no un-natural chemicals being injected into my food (growth hormones, etc.)

TheRealTimHorton
05-06-2011, 09:39 AM
I kind of do my part... I only buy free run eggs.

Other than that I don't buy or eat a lot of meat (not a vegetarian or anything, I just tend not to eat much meat lol).

Yes I would pay more money for ethically treated animals. It's the same reason I vote (I don't care about Canadian politics)--because I have been given the opportunity by the grace of lady luck to be born in a country where I actually can vote; when thousands of people around the world die because of a democratic revolution. If I didn't vote I would feel like Im shitting on all of those innocent people who are dying without even asking for a war.

In my opinion it's just karma. You do what you can, when you can do it. I won't completely turn my life upside down to make sure every action I take or product I buy is on the right side of moral compasses, but I'm certainly mindful of it.

To me it's really sad to see some of these replies saying "I don't give a shit"--take a look around guys; you have been given great lives and insane opportunities by even being in this country. Give back a little, if not to starving children in Africa, then at least to the cow who's comin to your BBQ.

I donate blood too. Some poor bastard who gets creamed by a drunk driver might need it.

oupzwrongthread
05-06-2011, 09:56 AM
Buy all your meat stuff from here - Problem solved.

http://www.edgarfarms.com/beef.htm

Unknown303
05-06-2011, 10:04 AM
Originally posted by oupzwrongthread
Buy all your meat stuff from here - Problem solved.

http://www.edgarfarms.com/beef.htm

:werd: you can get it at the Calgary Farmers Market. If you can buy something there it's bound to be pretty damn good in my opinion.

Although I get most of mine from my fiancées parent's farm. That's the true way to ensure quality, have family raise the cows. :love:

oupzwrongthread
05-06-2011, 10:18 AM
^^Yep, also, if you truly concerned with where your food comes from they welcome visits and tours of their operation. They are fantastic people who have the utmost concern and respect for their animals. I am sure if you do some research you will find many more local producers. They have the best honey I have ever had, they can source out chicken/eggs for you as well.

I promise this; you will never buy supermarket meat after trying this stuff, it is amazing.

Guillermo
05-06-2011, 10:47 AM
Originally posted by Tik-Tok
Call me callous, but I don't care how the thing dies.

For me, it's not so much about the animal suffering, as it is about the unstable violent asshole who is abusing the animal. that one shot where they guy is just beating the fuck out of poor helpless cows for no apparent reason at all - that's just downright SCARY. personally, i don't like being around people like that. seems like the type of guy you would look at wrong, and he would fly off the handle and start beating the fuck out of you.

BrknFngrs
05-06-2011, 10:54 AM
Originally posted by Guillermo


For me, it's not so much about the animal suffering, as it is about the unstable violent asshole who is abusing the animal. that one shot where they guy is just beating the fuck out of poor helpless cows for no apparent reason at all - that's just downright SCARY. personally, i don't like being around people like that. seems like the type of guy you would look at wrong, and he would fly off the handle and start beating the fuck out of you.

Agreed, it's not a farming issue; it's a psychotic idiot issue.

I didn't bother to watch the video but all of these videos are the same; they make farmers out to be terrible people who want nothing more than to torture and kill for their personal enjoyment.

Plain and simple, livestock is a business. If you think about it as such you realize that a lot of the claims made in these videos don't make any business sense (ie: what's the business sense in torturing livestock?)

sputnik
05-06-2011, 11:15 AM
Originally posted by oupzwrongthread
Buy all your meat stuff from here - Problem solved.

http://www.edgarfarms.com/beef.htm

You can buy chicken and eggs here...

www.bowdenfarmfreshchicken.com

legendboy
05-06-2011, 11:16 AM
Originally posted by Dave P
I am assuming that vid is worst case senerio propaganda. Would be interested to see how the average farm is.


hopefully the video is worst case senario

i closed the video after they showed the baby pig being castrated

Unknown303
05-06-2011, 11:24 AM
Originally posted by legendboy


hopefully the video is worst case senario

i closed the video after they showed the baby pig being castrated

It gets worse... a lot worse......

InRich
05-06-2011, 11:44 AM
Originally posted by Unknown303


It gets worse... a lot worse......

yea thats probably the worst video I have ever seen with animal cruelty...

And even though I feel really bad for the animals, at the end of the day, they are just animals, and I need to eat. Would I pay more for less antibiotics, mmmm dunno, maybe a little bit more, but I think everything is expensive enough as it is... prices of food are rising like crazy, seems like their going up almost every week, its nuts.

polarice
05-06-2011, 05:06 PM
I stopped eating meat because I couldn't be 100% sure that the meat was grown, and slaughtered to what I think industry standards should be. Not to mention factory farming is destroying the environment more than automobiles.

In the end I am just lazy because I probably could go and find the alternative meat producers. I am a quiet veggie though, I don't force my s/o to eat the way I do. Although, meat free mondays have come a staple.

Also, the amount of hormones and antibiotics are concerning too.

Eating Animals had a lot of interesting info and was a quick read.
I'd give another +1 to Food Inc.

wbaxter
05-06-2011, 05:08 PM
Not watching the video as I love meat too much. BRB cooking meat purchased from Wal-Mart.

bignerd
05-07-2011, 07:05 PM
Yes I would be willing to pay more for humanely raised meat however I would probably eat it less often (figure we eat meat too much as it is weekly).

I have friends who raise cattle and sheep and send them to market, obviously not a huge scale operation (probably a couple hundred animals) but I know they don't treat their animals like this. They are the ones out in the snow in the winter dragging calfs in sleds into the barns so they don't freeze and staying up all night lambing...

I didn't watch the video but it is possible the video is of the feedlot where they are sent to be fattened and fed grain the last few weeks of their lives before slaughter... feedlots are disgusting and much different than life on the "ranch".

CUG
05-07-2011, 11:56 PM
I would pay up to 10% more, sure. I'm not sure why proper treatment of animals would require a taxation of that sort. If the government feels like creating work for themselves, why don't they audit feed lots, farmers, and ranchers.

At the end of the day, why and how does increased cost equate to a worker not abusing an animal? Why am I paying for morality that is the standard by which all should live as determined by the various governmental codes?

I take it back; I would NOT pay anything extra.

Rat Fink
05-08-2011, 01:37 AM
Pretty sick footage they have there, but I am still going to eat meat. There is no way something like that is going to turn me into a vegan. We are all animals. If there wasn't feedlots, and no organized way of getting meat into our bellies, we would be running around like animals killing with whatever means we had to get that meat, or killing other people.

I work in close proximity of a slaughterhouse. On my lunch break when I'm sitting outside I can sometimes hear dozens of pigs squealing....no doubt on their way to death. I feel bad until saturday morning when I open my freezer and grab that pack of bacon.

It's life. This video was no doubt comprised with a shock doctrine in mind to sway those who can be swayed into a life of veggie burgers, tofu, birkenstocks and cruising to the flea markets in a VW.

I would not pay more because you can never guarantee this shit won't happen anyways. I'm already paying more for everything else in life so why bend over for one more way for bleeding heart marketing B.S. to cock-ram you

B20EF
05-08-2011, 01:52 PM
Originally posted by CUG
I would pay up to 10% more, sure. I'm not sure why proper treatment of animals would require a taxation of that sort. If the government feels like creating work for themselves, why don't they audit feed lots, farmers, and ranchers.

At the end of the day, why and how does increased cost equate to a worker not abusing an animal? Why am I paying for morality that is the standard by which all should live as determined by the various governmental codes?

I take it back; I would NOT pay anything extra.

Do you honestly not understand why it would cost more for humanely treated animals? It has nothing to do with taxes. It simply cost a lot more to raise and feed them.

CUG
05-08-2011, 02:50 PM
Originally posted by B20EF


Do you honestly not understand why it would cost more for humanely treated animals? It has nothing to do with taxes. It simply cost a lot more to raise and feed them. That's terrible rationale. The decision to abuse an animal is not affected by the price being paid for its meat. If someone is inclined to abuse animals with a pitch fork and a tazer, the 10% extra being paid for the meat won't prevent that.

Do I have to pay you extra money as your employer to not shit-kick our servers and get violent with our sales people?

Cooked Rice
05-08-2011, 04:29 PM
Just had to go post this right when BBQ season is upon us didn't you? :whipped:

syritis
05-08-2011, 06:18 PM
Originally posted by CUG
That's terrible rationale. The decision to abuse an animal is not affected by the price being paid for its meat. If someone is inclined to abuse animals with a pitch fork and a tazer, the 10% extra being paid for the meat won't prevent that.

you are correct but still raising any live stock as free range will cost more the factory farming. yet it would still prevent chickens standing on top of chickens standing on top of dead chickens. shit like that. or the cost of gassing with something more quicker and less painful instead of throat slitting. or using NO2 to numb animals before castrating them.
I'd imagine that this stuff would cost more then what the farmers would recover from less dead loss, more produce and better produce. but i'm not a farmer or an accountant so i wouldn't know for sure.



Originally posted by Cooked Rice
Just had to go post this right when BBQ season is upon us didn't you? :whipped:
eat a burger, then at least they died for a very tasty reason.

B20EF
05-08-2011, 07:25 PM
Originally posted by CUG
That's terrible rationale. The decision to abuse an animal is not affected by the price being paid for its meat. If someone is inclined to abuse animals with a pitch fork and a tazer, the 10% extra being paid for the meat won't prevent that.

Do I have to pay you extra money as your employer to not shit-kick our servers and get violent with our sales people?

Ok we're talking about two different things. I'm talking about living conditions like their pen and feed not those guys physically abusing the animals. You're right assholes like that are everywhere and can't be avoided, but in my experience with my family farms the more money and effort you put into raising them the less likely the employees are to abuse them.

Freeskier
05-09-2011, 11:54 AM
I'd pay more for sure. I already try to buy meat from local butchers and farmers markets. I only buy free range eggs and I can get a lot of game from friends who hunt.

On the other hand that video exaggerates and picks the worst of the worst. Even in a few months working for the fisheries on commercial fish boats, it's obvious that the fisherman don't go out of their way to abuse the fish or whatever. In fact they'd lose money if they did, if fish come into the plant all bruised or torn up then they won't get any money for them. And a dolphin with it's throat cut? Not sure when that would ever happen. Pretty sure there is no dolphin fishery anywhere... might be injured bycatch that wouldn't have survived?

desi112
05-09-2011, 01:39 PM
Originally posted by CUG
I would pay up to 10% more, sure. I'm not sure why proper treatment of animals would require a taxation of that sort. If the government feels like creating work for themselves, why don't they audit feed lots, farmers, and ranchers.

At the end of the day, why and how does increased cost equate to a worker not abusing an animal? Why am I paying for morality that is the standard by which all should live as determined by the various governmental codes?

I take it back; I would NOT pay anything extra.

care takes more time.

for example: picking up a chicken, and gently placing it in a transport of some sort, then with care making sure it is killed humanly vs. randomly throwing a chicken on a conveyor belt.

Jeremiah
05-09-2011, 01:56 PM
For me I just have to ignore that that type of brutality exists then I'll be ok.

Out of Sight out of Mind

2ndgenlude
05-09-2011, 02:04 PM
more people need to hunt. clean, ethical kill as long as you can shoot straight, then butcher your own animal. you get to see the whole process from field to plate, and appreciate your food a lot more since you did see the whole process.

HiTempguy1
05-09-2011, 04:50 PM
Originally posted by Rat Fink
We are all animals. If there wasn't feedlots, and no organized way of getting meat into our bellies, we would be running around like animals killing with whatever means we had to get that meat, or killing other people.

I'm already paying more for everything else in life so why bend over for one more way for bleeding heart marketing B.S. to cock-ram you

Ding and Ding. We have a winRAR.

And when did we start treating animals "humanely"? They aren't HUMANS :nut:

r3ccOs
05-10-2011, 01:17 PM
Originally posted by Jeremiah
For me I just have to ignore that that type of brutality exists then I'll be ok.

Out of Sight out of Mind

Ding Ding actuality...

I am too a meat eater and will often purchase meats from supermarkets for convience once in a blue moon.

I think that this video highlights the absolute worst case scenerios, but I do know that the way a heffer is handled for Halal and Kosher meats is MORE than inhumane let alone intolerable... but hey I'm not going to fight nor win that war.

Farming/Ranching etc... has turned from an industry to a machine of process and technologies which focus's on the practice of effeciency to make as much product as possible. Yes the product is also consistant, somewhat tasty, but hey so is McDonalds right?

At the end of the day, we can't continue allow the industry to treat livestock nor our produce as a product of output like manufacturing...

Honestly how healthy do you think that oil extrated from Canola that's been engineered to grow to -15 is for ya?

I'm no hippy, but its easy to tell when things are wrong.

TheRealTimHorton
05-12-2011, 04:21 PM
There are some pretty disgusting attitudes in this thread... I hope you guys realize this.

sillysod
05-20-2011, 03:04 PM
I do a lot of work in meat plants as well as feed lots. I can tell you that there is a lot of disturbing stuff going on, many days I can't eat meat when I come back from a plant visit.

That being said people care until they start paying more money. I buy free range eggs as well - because I see how the chickens are for normal eggs -- and there is no way in hell I want to eat anythnig that comes out of such a horrible looking animal.

We don't live in some 3rd world country - it isn't necessary for a lot of the stuff to happen the way it does in this industry. BUT untill people actually say something about it, and show that people will pay more for "green" or "free" animals - the producers and packers won't see any reason to change anything.

Look at the pulp and paper industry. Clear cutting is long gone because they found out that by going "green" and planting some trees they can charge more. These companies are only interested in $$$, and if there is a dollar to be had by "kind killing" then they will do it.


On a side note ever wonder what happens to male free-range chickens? Locally they don't gas them they fall off the conveyor into a highspeed grinder.

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