Online poker a scam?

[Type_S1]

Wondering what everyone else thinks about the legitimacy of online poker. I officially cashed out on every site today. I question the "radomness" of the cards.

Within the last month I've had 24 1-outers, 38 3-outer's, and 56 runner-runners suck out on me (I keep a spread sheet of played hands). There is no way possible these hands would ever happen in real life in person within a month at the casino...better chance to win the lottery.

Most of these were on full tilt and what I have noticed is when the river card comes off there is sometimes a pause of a few seconds like a computer is generating something and then I get sucked out on. You check the players who win against you and they are losing players...making me think these websites let these guys win once in awhile to keep dragging them along and playing to make more money off them.

Anyways I'm just wondering if anyone else call's bullshit on these sites.

[roopi]

Remember that a month of playing online vs a month of playing in the casino is not the same. The amount of hands you play is not even close.

[project240]

Online poker is rigged.

Get out your tinfoil hat asap to help prevent this from happening again.

[Mar]

Are there any regulations to them releasing some of the code used to generate the cards? I'd like to know this as well.

[project240]

Originally posted by Mar
Are there any regulations to them releasing some of the code used to generate the cards? I'd like to know this as well.

Think about it from the poker sites point of view. They obviously want everything as "straight" as possible to keep players playing there. They make insane amounts from rake and in their best interest for their RNG to be as random as humanly possible.

I've played a hand online where 5 players were all in preflop (in a SNG) and the hands were AA, KK (me), QQ, JJ, and 99. By the river 4 people had hit their set.

Obviously seems highly unlikely, but playing live, I played a hand where three of us all flopped a set. I flopped top set with aces, another guy had jacks and the third trip sevens.

Once you play tens of thousands of hands, the cards will even out in the end.

[Merritt]

Personally, I'd rather play real poker than online poker. No wonder FBI shut them down.

[Type_S1]

No tin hats. Why can't they release the code they use for the "radom generator?

Why does the river always pause a little bit longer then the flop and turn....what does that extra few seconds do in the system?

Why is it when I get donk'd out on I look at the players stats and they are losing players everytime? Maybe because they are dragging them along and giving them free money to keep playing.

What about the known players that sites like fulltilt hire to play at tables? You don't think odds are in their favor somehow?

Whatever it comes down to...I cashed out every penny I had online and will never go back to playing after the bullshit I have seen in the last month. Like I said when I had that many bad beats in not a very large pool of hands something is fishy. I mine as well start buying lotto tickets to make money. :rofl:

[FraserB]

Did you keep track of all the times you did this to someone else? Odds are you didn't and just chalked it up to good luck.

[J-hop]

lol, lotto tickets are a better way to go than ANY gambling.

one thing I find that people don't seem to grasp is in the computing world there is no such thing as randomness. With current computing true randomness is an impossibility. Millions of dollars every year go into researching ways to increase randomness for statistical modeling.

some joe blow company that starts an online poker site isn't going to have access to good randomness creating software. Could be part of the reason, but at the same time generally crappy random number generators are hard to notice unless you are looking at long term statistics.

Online gambling in itself is pretty freaking lame, nothing like the real thing, it's not like you can look for someone's avatar's tell :dunno: . I'd take real casino gambling over laptop gambling any day.

[kolumbo69]

LOL I know enough 6 figure poker players to know full tilt isn't a scam. Maybe you just suck?:dunno:

[RickDaTuner]

Originally posted by kolumbo69
LOL I know enough 6 figure poker players to know full tilt isn't a scam. Maybe you just suck?:dunno:

You know enough 6 figure players that bully with large bets and understand the online poker systems...

the trick is to cash out often, thus throwing the stats in your favor, any time you place new money into your account it favors you for wins.

The Law of averages will always be law, but between real world and RNG they are completely different, not in averages, but in the way that they appear.

[Adachi]

I'll be honest, I hate playing in FT because when I bet a big amount with having the lead from the flop/turn, someone with complete shit hits the river.
Happens almost every hand I actually play a good sum of money.

[Kobe]

LOOOOOOOOL this thread is full of WIN!


Type_S1 - Name on all sites please?

And have you heard of
1. Variance
2. Bankroll Management




On a sidenote, Pokerstars was making 1.4BILLION a year (not including all the money laundering they got busted for right now)

I don't think they give a shit about ur 50cents rake you pay for an MTT..





Originally posted by Adachi
I'll be honest, I hate playing in FT because when I bet a big amount with having the lead from the flop/turn, someone with complete shit hits the river.
Happens almost every hand I actually play a good sum of money.


Here is a little tip of advice..
I am assuimg you are playing tournments, when you are please look at your BB's and M (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-ratio)

Then look at everyone elses BB at the table, and see who you can bully and who you can't...

If you have 20bbs (which is pretty short, you should like to be over 30bbs in mtts, Unless ur in a turbo structure)
you aren't going to bluff someone with 3bbs, and someone that is 100bigblinds is going to call you a lot lighter or 3bet you lighter becuase they can, as you should be doing if you had 100bb's


If you are thinking that someone always hit the river vs you, bet bigger to not give them pot odds to chase there straight/flush draws or AK or whatever.

for ex:

stacks 1,500 @ 10/20
you have KJ on the button, its folded to you, you make it 50 (2.5X the BB is the standard raise) give or take .5)

The BB calls you..

The flop comes J(h) 9(s) 8(d)

The pot is now 110 chips (50+50+10)(SB FOLDED)
You have top pair and you want to protect it and not let a ten have a cheap 8outer vs you, so you will bet about 3/4 to 4/5 the pot..



I'm no poker coach, and do not feel like explaining anymore but online poker is not rigged, if you want to get better.. read some books or visit some websites

The biggest poker forum online

http://www.twoplustwo.com/


Training websites

http://www.deucescracked.com/
www.pokerxfactor.com
www.husng.com
http://www.cardrunners.com/

and so on, there is tons of them but those are def my favorite...


Oh ya, if you want to see how bad you really are running, you can import your hands here

http://pokerluckmeter.com/


Maybe your just a fish? please post graphs :)

[project240]

Originally posted by Kobe
LOOOOOOOOL this thread is full of WIN!


Type_S1 - Name on all sites please?

And have you heard of
1. Variance
2. Bankroll Management



:rofl:

Maybe there is no easy way to say this. Maybe you are very unlucky. Maybe online poker is rigged. Maybe you just suck at poker?

Post up your screenname/s so we can see how good/bad you actually are.

[Kobe]

PS: I offer you HU4ROLLZ 2 make back ur money on pokerstars.. up to $105 sngs... best of what ever amount of games u want :)

[RecoilS14]

It's ghosts in the machine.....

[Deville]

I dont think it's rigged. I'm not a great player but I understand the basics of everything Kobe says, and my game is slowly getting better.

I also don't play very serious, meaning I'm not trying to get rich or make any real money. but I can make $100 last months playing about 20 games a week.

I have seen tons of bad suck outs, there are a ton of horrible players that don't understand pot odds, M ratio, outs etc. and will call almost any bet with there 1 - 4 outers. And yea they get rewarded sometimes, but in the long run they will lose way more then they win.

These are the kinds of players you want to play against, and the sooner you tighten up your game and fix the leaks, you'll come out on top more often.

[tenth]

Originally posted by Kobe
LOOOOOOOOL this thread is full of WIN!


Type_S1 - Name on all sites please?

And have you heard of
1. Variance
2. Bankroll Management

x2.

Play a couple million more hands, and then come back with a sample size that means something.

[A790]

Some are legit, some are scams. The big guys are usually legit.

[sabad66]

Originally posted by J-hop
lol, lotto tickets are a better way to go than ANY gambling.

one thing I find that people don't seem to grasp is in the computing world there is no such thing as randomness. With current computing true randomness is an impossibility. Millions of dollars every year go into researching ways to increase randomness for statistical modeling.

some joe blow company that starts an online poker site isn't going to have access to good randomness creating software. Could be part of the reason, but at the same time generally crappy random number generators are hard to notice unless you are looking at long term statistics.

Online gambling in itself is pretty freaking lame, nothing like the real thing, it's not like you can look for someone's avatar's tell :dunno: . I'd take real casino gambling over laptop gambling any day.
lotto tickets are a "better way to go"? you're kidding right? please elaborate.

also, you really think a site as big as full tilt isn't using the best shuffling algorithms available? while you're right about it being impossible to have a truly random number, the current system works just fine for online poker. everyone at the table is playing the same deck, generated using the same shuffling algorithm, so nobody is at a disadvantage. everyone has an equal chance of getting sucked out on... OP just doesn't realize this cuz he only keeps track of his own hands.

[sabad66]

Originally posted by Type_S1

Within the last month I've had 24 1-outers, 38 3-outer's, and 56 runner-runners suck out on me (I keep a spread sheet of played hands). There is no way possible these hands would ever happen in real life in person within a month at the casino...better chance to win the lottery.

you've obviously never played 4-8 at ABS or Elbow :rofl:

[J-hop]

Originally posted by sabad66

lotto tickets are a "better way to go"? you're kidding right? please elaborate.

also, you really think a site as big as full tilt isn't using the best shuffling algorithms available? while you're right about it being impossible to have a truly random number, the current system works just fine for online poker. everyone at the table is playing the same deck, generated using the same shuffling algorithm, so nobody is at a disadvantage. everyone has an equal chance of getting sucked out on... OP just doesn't realize this cuz he only keeps track of his own hands.

if you took the time to read my post i stated "even crappy random number generators are hard to notice" so I agree its likely not the problem (but no they are not using the best software obviously, I don't think they as a company spend millions every year researching better algorithms and obviously don't have the research and development that companies like microsoft does)

I said lotto tickets were a better way to go because. First I've never met someone that could make a good living off of poker. If you go back and look over how many times you were up i'm willing to bet it wasn't often. And by being up i DON'T mean that you won a few times, had a good night etc. I mean at the end of the year when you looked over your wins/losses how many years have you been up?? (especially significantly, making 10k a year on gambling isn't enough to justify all the wasted time).

Also if you gamble at a casino you have to factor in travel money (gas if local, flights if vegas or something like that), drinks while you are at the casino, food etc. At least at home you are just wasting away in front of a computer screen and aren't spending money outside of your gambling.

but this thread isn't about if gambling is good or bad so lets not side track it, just don't come at me with a half cocked gun!

[sabad66]

Originally posted by J-hop


if you took the time to read my post i stated "even crappy random number generators are hard to notice" so I agree its likely not the problem (but no they are not using the best software obviously, I don't think they as a company spend millions every year researching better algorithms and obviously don't have the research and development that companies like microsoft does)

I said lotto tickets were a better way to go because. First I've never met someone that could make a good living off of poker. If you go back and look over how many times you were up i'm willing to bet it wasn't often. And by being up i DON'T mean that you won a few times, had a good night etc. I mean at the end of the year when you looked over your wins/losses how many years have you been up?? (especially significantly, making 10k a year on gambling isn't enough to justify all the wasted time).

Also if you gamble at a casino you have to factor in travel money (gas if local, flights if vegas or something like that), drinks while you are at the casino, food etc. At least at home you are just wasting away in front of a computer screen and aren't spending money outside of your gambling.

but this thread isn't about if gambling is good or bad so lets not side track it, just don't come at me with a half cocked gun!
these sites are multi-billion dollar businesses, so you're simply just wrong. they are using the best of the best. take a look at this page: http://www.pokerstars.com/poker/room/features/security/

just because you don't personally knwo anybody, doesn't mean there aren't people out there who do. how many people do you know that make a good living off of lotteries? :rofl:

[J-hop]

Originally posted by sabad66

these sites are multi-billion dollar businesses, so you're simply just wrong. they are using the best of the best. take a look at this page: http://www.pokerstars.com/poker/room/features/security/

just because you don't personally knwo anybody, doesn't mean there aren't people out there who do. how many people do you know that make a good living off of lotteries? :rofl:

lol, again with the half cocked gun, no where in my post did I say that people playing the lotto make a good living off of it. But at least they are only wasting a few minutes of their life going out and buying tickets where as i've known friends who will hit the casino and spend 4+ hours wasting away in there hahahaha.

edit: also research SHA-1 it is hardly "the best of the best"

[Type_S1]

@Kobe..

Won't post my name because I don't like people snooping through personal things. Overall I am up a lot off online poker within the last 2 years so it is not a question of poker playing skills. I play live poker 2 or 3 times a week and overall am up as well. I admit I'm not the best poker player but am better then then the average people you see playing.

What I was playing on full tilt specifically was 5/10 ring games, no ante, 9 player. Only tournaments I have played on full tilt were 24+2 kill MT's. Out of 54 tournament I placed in money 29 times, first place thrice.

What I am trying to explain is I am not a "shitty" poker player and don't lose all my money, I'm not playing low level games with ".50 rake" and matter of fact is I am up. I feel when I play live I never see the types of bad beats I do online regardless of how many hands played. I don't believe within a month I can have that many bad beats...it is near impossible looking at statistics yet online why do I see one outer's hit sooo often? It doesn't seem random to me at all. To be honest this month I have only sucked out on someone once and it was in one of the tourny's. He had aces with 10 BB left I had kings with about 40 BB left and called him, hit on the river. So yes I can say that my "luck" (as you seem to call it) sucks ass online.

All I wanted was others opinion on this....not really looking to get into a war or a pissing match on beyond about it. Fact is I cashed out on 3 poker sites last night my full account and won't be returning because I feel that SOMETIMES(not all the time) the system is fixed. If I want to play poker I will either hit the casino or home games from now on. :burnout:

[sabad66]

Originally posted by J-hop


lol, again with the half cocked gun, no where in my post did I say that people playing the lotto make a good living off of it. But at least they are only wasting a few minutes of their life going out and buying tickets where as i've known friends who will hit the casino and spend 4+ hours wasting away in there hahahaha.
you said 'lotteries are a better way to go' and then you justified it with 'i don't know anyone making a good living off of poker'. sounds like you were implying it to me...

4+ hours? lol that's peanuts. back when i first turned 18, i'd do 48hr sessions without thinking anything of it. i think my record was 3 days at elbow one time. you're right - definitely was a waste of time (I did make money, but converted to an hourly rate was a joke lol)

[Kobe]

Originally posted by J-hop


if you took the time to read my post i stated "even crappy random number generators are hard to notice" so I agree its likely not the problem (but no they are not using the best software obviously, I don't think they as a company spend millions every year researching better algorithms and obviously don't have the research and development that companies like microsoft does)

I said lotto tickets were a better way to go because. First I've never met someone that could make a good living off of poker. If you go back and look over how many times you were up i'm willing to bet it wasn't often. And by being up i DON'T mean that you won a few times, had a good night etc. I mean at the end of the year when you looked over your wins/losses how many years have you been up?? (especially significantly, making 10k a year on gambling isn't enough to justify all the wasted time).

Also if you gamble at a casino you have to factor in travel money (gas if local, flights if vegas or something like that), drinks while you are at the casino, food etc. At least at home you are just wasting away in front of a computer screen and aren't spending money outside of your gambling.

but this thread isn't about if gambling is good or bad so lets not side track it, just don't come at me with a half cocked gun!

Hi, let me be the first person that you meet online that makes "Decent coin" playing poker online

Here is my April 2011 so far

http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/77/44337735.jpg

Here is how many hours I've played this month
http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/2020/94983677.jpg

15.17hours @ 91.68/hour
Roi is alittle hot and it usually is not this much, but it is up there..


Sorry I will not post anything else for you, but I have been playing online for nearly 2 years now, and I see no point in finding another job


I am pretty damn lazy and hate playing poker, so I don't play much anymore, but a know a lot of friends that make WAY MORE then me..

[sabad66]

Originally posted by J-hop


edit: also research SHA-1 it is hardly "the best of the best"
on its own definitely not, but when you are using it to hash two sources of random data (random mouse clicks from individual user computers + hardware random number generator), then it's pretty darn good. not to mention that its verified by an external firm. again, it's definitely more than sufficient for online poker.

[J-hop]

Originally posted by sabad66

you said 'lotteries are a better way to go' and then you justified it with 'i don't know anyone making a good living off of poker'. sounds like you were implying it to me...

4+ hours? lol that's peanuts. back when i first turned 18, i'd do 48hr sessions without thinking anything of it. i think my record was 3 days at elbow one time. you're right - definitely was a waste of time (I did make money, but converted to an hourly rate was a joke lol)

i justified it with "i don't know anyone making a good living off of poker" AND them spending hours wasting away at a casino or in front of a screen.

IMO "better" in this case can mean monetary or quality of life....

anyways we should stop clogging this thread with garbage.

[C_Dave45]

Originally posted by Type_S1
If I want to play poker I will either hit the casino or home games from now on. :burnout:

You'll have to hit up my "Canyon Meadows Casino" then! Great times, great poker!!

[Kobe]

Originally posted by Type_S1
@Kobe..

Won't post my name because I don't like people snooping through personal things. Overall I am up a lot off online poker within the last 2 years so it is not a question of poker playing skills. I play live poker 2 or 3 times a week and overall am up as well. I admit I'm not the best poker player but am better then then the average people you see playing.

What I was playing on full tilt specifically was 5/10 ring games, no ante, 9 player. Only tournaments I have played on full tilt were 24+2 kill MT's. Out of 54 tournament I placed in money 29 times, first place thrice.

What I am trying to explain is I am not a "shitty" poker player and don't lose all my money, I'm not playing low level games with ".50 rake" and matter of fact is I am up. I feel when I play live I never see the types of bad beats I do online regardless of how many hands played. I don't believe within a month I can have that many bad beats...it is near impossible looking at statistics yet online why do I see one outer's hit sooo often? It doesn't seem random to me at all. To be honest this month I have only sucked out on someone once and it was in one of the tourny's. He had aces with 10 BB left I had kings with about 40 BB left and called him, hit on the river. So yes I can say that my "luck" (as you seem to call it) sucks ass online.

All I wanted was others opinion on this....not really looking to get into a war or a pissing match on beyond about it. Fact is I cashed out on 3 poker sites last night my full account and won't be returning because I feel that SOMETIMES(not all the time) the system is fixed. If I want to play poker I will either hit the casino or home games from now on. :burnout:


LOOOL bro, u placed ITM in MTTS (small sample) a total of 53.7% of the time when the best MTT grinders place ITM around 15-18% (Long Run With variance)

And you are complaining that you start running bad...


On a side note, instead of calling off ur stack 2 see how u are beat, fuck those statistics, becuase you an I both know you are a fish if you are thinking/doing that..


U can't fold a hand on the river when u know u have been beat...


Let me see all the Hand histories, where u got 1-4outed...


Thank you...

[mwmhong]

Originally posted by project240
Online poker is rigged.

Get out your tinfoil hat asap to help prevent this from happening again.

Online Poker COULD be rigged; scary stuff:

http://news.cnet.com/60-minutes-report-how-online-gamblers-unmasked-cheaters/

[sabad66]

There's a difference between intentionally rigging the system vs being exploited by cheaters.