Question for the runners

[calgarys_finest]

I have recently began running after losing a bunch of weight(40lbs in 5 months 256 down to 216) i have a few questions.

Do you eat or drink anything before running?
Do your shoes help alot or will i be fine with walmart runners?
Any tips to extend runs?

When i started 1 month ago i couldnt make it 200m right now im almost at 1km when i push myself right to the max but my chest really starts to burn.

[soccernut]

I play soccer at a high level which will require similar endurance to running.

I usually eat at least 2 hours before. If I do eat anything in that 2 hour period before, I eat dry stuff (Energy bar). I drink lots of water on game day to prevent cramps.

shoes make a big difference for me. Walmart shoes will give you blisters and wont be very comfortable.

Don't over do it with static stretching. I find it decreases performance.

[J-hop]

definitely buy good shoes and have them professionally fitted as not every person can run in every shoe (ie: I have found asics shoes fit me best, my GF used to run track and can't wear anything but Nikes). A bad shoe and/or a bad fit for your feet can result in everything from foot to knee to back problems.

I developed really bad knee pain last year because I ran in an old pair of shoes I had, bought a new pair after recovering and never had the problem again.

I would also consider where you run, I don't like running on cement paths so I usually chose an area where I can run on the grass, I find it a lot better on the knees.

[LongCity]

You'll build stamina as you continue to run. As for eating, depends how long your runs are but since you're maxing out at 1km and start to gas out I'm gonna guess it takes you about ~8 mins? Since the runs are really short, you probably won't need a significant energy source. Shoes are really important, as mentioned already - you can develop injuries with ill-fitting shoes. There are specific shoes to cater to specific foot strikes so figure out if you over or under pronate and get shoes to compensate for it.

[atgilchrist]

The other thing you'll need to learn in order to build endurance and stamina are breathing techniques. As you run, try not to "pant" or gasp, but rather slower, sustained deep breaths. Try breathing in for 4 strides, hold for 2, out for 3. Plus the counting of strides helps keep your brain occupied, instead of thinking about how tired you are.

Good luck:thumbsup:

[davidI]

Get proper shoes. Go to the running room and drop the extra coin to get shoes meant for you. I need stabilizing shoes as I pronate - it made a huge difference and is cheaper than dealing with shin splints or knee issues in the long-run.

I tend to eat a small snack 45-60 minutes before running and usually try to stay hydrated throughout the day. You stamina will increase the more you run. Try running for 5 minutes, then walking for 1 minute, running for 5 minutes, walking for 1 minute - it will help you get your heart rate down and avoid that chest burn. Alternatively, just slow down your pace so you're never breathing so hard that you'd be unable to speak.

[r3ccOs]

I too play soccer and hockey still... but I can tell you that outside of the fact that they're cardio activities, it is different than distance running.

Soccer is running, but its much more crosstraining, where there are intervals of reaching maximum heart rate through anerobic sprints, and the light jogging and even walking to bring the heart back down when away from the play, or covering the opposition.

Running 10k+ distances in competitive time is much more about endurance and speed work but from an Aerobic perspective... achieving maximum output out of a desired heart-rate range, which requires alot of training to become "very" effecient.

Most high tier soccer players (I'd say CUSA Div 3+) are usually in very good overall Aerobic condition BUT may not be able to compete with a dedicated runner who can clobber a 10K down into the low 40 minute mark.

anyways, you don't need alot of food to eat before a run, but yes you can eat a couple hours early to replenish a glyocgen store if you are low.... (typically you won't be)

Good shoes are HUGELY important.... Why? Well if you're running pavement the sheer impact on your joints and feet are tremendous. If you have bad shoes and aren't building up your base with proper technique and stretching, you can screw yourself up with hip flexor problmes, shin splints, knee issues such as patella tendonitus, and plantar faciatius.

If you run trail, you can look at "barefoot" type shoes, but I don't prefer them as I have a bad right ankle, and frankly you should be an optimum weight and an effecient runner first and foremost (I'm not... I carry too much muscle to be a pure distance runner)

Water? If its hot and you're sweating, replenish and sometimes you MAY need salt tablets if you are pushing it that hard. But if its cool and your body isn't needing to sweat, you don't need to carry water other than to keep your mouth from drying.

Best tool to guage your performance is a GPS & heart-rate monitor... you'll learn what your current pace per km for a 5 or 10k run is, and you'll be able to guage your progress, as well as add motivation.

[Unknown303]

I have a habit of eating perogies right before I run for some reason. Not really sure why but it happens... Doesn't effect my running at all though.

[Khyron]

I got off the couch awhile back, lost a bunch of weight, and run a lot (top ~10% racing now). Same as you, 200m a huge effort. The day you can do a full km and then just keep going is pretty amazing.

Shoes don't have to be expensive, but they have to fit. They change every year, as do your feet. Find out if your pronate/stability as mentioned above, then buy whatever feels right. They should feel right, immediately. There's no need to breakin shoes. If they slide around or feel odd, move on.

My current fav set is a zoot energy 2.0 - so I bought 2 more exact same pairs on ebay. You can save money doing this.

Shoes wear out internally before visually. Roughly 400-700kms on a pair, then toss/donate. As soon as you start getting shin/knee discomfort, they're gone. I had one pair barely make it 250, still tossed em.

You need NO speedwork/intervals/fartleks/crap for a long time. You need to run lots. Easy. As in you can talk to a friend the whole time. Do that for a year. You burn 1 cal/kg/km. You do not get to eat a pizza because you ran 5k. Fat runners always screw this up. Biking is even worse/less.

I love my garmin gps. 310XT is a bit overkill but you can get a 305 for just over 100 bucks. Great tool.

Good luck. Sign up for races - it gives you a target and a purpose. Start with the "Don't come in last" goal.

[calgarys_finest]

I wanted to thank you guys for the help its been a while since i made this post. I have met my first goal of going down to 200 lbs i feel better than ever. I am a super cheap kinda guy and even if i have money i dont like spending it but i `splurged` on a pair of diadora runners at sportchek for my running shoes and i noticed a difference immedietly not just in the support and feel but also in the distance i could travel and the lack of pain in my knees. I have just started phase 2 which has more focus on my diet and i hope to hit 185 as a new leaner man. Thanks for the help guys.

[PeterGTiR]

If you go to the Running Room for shoes, do they tell you what type of shoes you need and then recommend certain ones for you?

The prices seem fair on the website and they're probably only slightly more expensive than the shoes at Sportchek...

[lasimmon]

Originally posted by PeterGTiR
If you go to the Running Room for shoes, do they tell you what type of shoes you need and then recommend certain ones for you?

The prices seem fair on the website and they're probably only slightly more expensive than the shoes at Sportchek...

Yah when i went one of the people watched me run/walk quickly and suggested a pair (probably mid range in their selection) which i then bought and they worked wonderful for me.

[wintonyk]

Originally posted by PeterGTiR
If you go to the Running Room for shoes, do they tell you what type of shoes you need and then recommend certain ones for you?

The prices seem fair on the website and they're probably only slightly more expensive than the shoes at Sportchek...

Basically thats what they do. They will ask you what kind of running you plan on doing, watch your gate and the way you feet lie on the ground. From there they can tell you which shoes will be the best.

I made the mistake once of spending 100 bucks on a pair of adidas shoes. Huge mistake, shin splints and terrible knee pain. Picked up a pair of Asics and it was a miracle.

Good job OP on hitting the 200 lb mark. Keep up with the new lifestyle. I would look into running room and their learn to run/5k running groups they are fantastic.

[Khyron]

There are 3 "types" of shoe for Neutral, Over and Under pronation (how you roll your foot sideways as you run). Bore yourself here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foot_type

So running room has 3 color sections in each women and mens wall. Once you know which type you are, you pick from the wall. It's not a cost thing, there's cheap and $$$ in each category.

Most people who bitch about a brand hurting their feet bought the wrong type. I accidently bought a stability shoe (I'm neutral) and they were useless for more than 5k. I donated them after 100 or so km. Saucony ProGUIDE instead of Saucony ProGRID - easy mistake to make.

I don't think it every really changes - ie once you know you are an overpronator you buy those types of running shoes no matter what store.

[revelations]

a) switch to a forefoot strike (10% increase in endurance) - but do it gradually as your calves will KILL you

b) pound back potassium supplements (or OD on bananas) - noticeable increase in my performance

[Khyron]

Originally posted by revelations
a) switch to a forefoot strike (10% increase in endurance) - but do it gradually as your calves will KILL you


That's quite the blanket statement.

OP just keep doing what you're doing, slow and steady volume increase week after week after week.

[dansmith11]

theres a lot of heated debate in the running world about shoes vs barefoot with lots (often stubborn and or closed minded)people on both sides yelling at each other.

personally im in the barefoot camp. but ive also spent the last 2 years of my life slowly building up and essentially re-learning how to run with proper form (fore-strike strike, increased cadence etc.).

but im not really gonna get into the whole debate here. especially with a shoe person :)

one thing i have learned for sure, is both shoe wearing heel strikers and barefoot fore-foot strikers alike can be amazingly fast and talented runners, or slow clumsy heavy footed runners. and if one particular method has worked for someone, they will usually defend it pretty passtionately as THE way to run.

Im not sure there really is a definitely answer.

personally im of the opinion that barefoot/forefoot strike is the proper way to run. HOWEVER if youve spent your whole life running in shoes, it can be more work/hassle then its worth to make the switch. and if you practice enough and develop the proper form, i think you can be a good runner with whichever path you take.

for example, i used to run in shoes and when i ran too much distance, my knees and hips would hurt. when i switched to barefoot/vibrams/etc. my hips and knees felt amazing, but if i did too many miles, my feet calves and shins would feel the pain.

now after racking up some serious mileage barefoot, that pain is starting to go away, and my first reaction/instinct is to do what most barefooters do and claim holy shit barefooting solved all my problems.. and maybe it did.. but maybe the switch just forced me to pay more attention to my form and practice a lot more, and maybe had i applied that same focus to my shoes, my pain would be just as gone.

im kinda rambling now.. i could talk about this shit for hours.. ive spent way too much time running and reading about running in the last two years.

but OP.. given that your just starting out.. you might want to check into some of shit barefooting jazz. its really a lot of fun, and since your just starting out anyhow. you have to learn a new form anyhow.. so now would be the time to decide which path you want to take :) (check out the barefoot running book for a good start, also born to run if your just looking for some motivation, reading that book just makes you WANT to run. lol)

and lastly.. these are the tips i can offer about running that apply to both shoes and unshod runners.

1. be light on your feet! like a cat. if you can hear your feet hitting hte ground. your not being light enough. you should be damn near silent when you run. your breathing should be the loudest thing about your running. not your feet slapping the ground.

2. run with BOTH legs. this one i never hear people talk about.. and im not sure why.. probably the best thing i ever did to my running was to try and balance the workload between my legs. most people have 1 strong leg that is doing like 70-80% of the work. (watch peoples arms when they run, youll generally notice one arm does a much longer/stronger sweeping motion, and 1 will do this little tiny swing. thats because your strong side is striding and driving forward, while your weak side is esentially being used like a crutch or cain and just kind proping you up for a second until your strong leg gets back on the ground). focus on your weak leg and try and get it to do its fair share. many hands make light work and such.. it seriously gets SO much easier when your body is balanced.

3. relax. muscle tension is the enemy. you want your legs nice and soft and springy and ready to absorb force when you hit the ground.

4. (probably most critical. but that might just be my yoga background talking) BREATH!... do breathing exercises. focus on your breath. someone suggested already counting strides and matching that to you breath. thatll work. or you can do actual yoga/martial arts breathing exercises as you run or whatever works for you. but its amazing how quickly people tense up and forget to breath when running. even if your forgetting to breath for only fractions of a second at a time. that will quickly lead to an oxygen debt and ruin your run :P proper breathing form is paramount to anything really.

[Khyron]

Or watch a 5/10/21K race and count how many of each you see cross the finish line, and when.

Totally support it if you're fighting injury and need to try something else, but for most people you're just asking for a nice case of PF.

I do occasionally take the shoes off, on sidewalk or a track - but it's rare and short.

[Hakkola]

Any shoes with support will also cause injury. +1 for barefoot or as close to it as possible.

Also, fuck static stretching, you lose something like 10% or more of your muscle strength. That's what you do after exercise, not before.

[revelations]

Originally posted by Hakkola
Also, fuck static stretching, you lose something like 10% or more of your muscle strength. That's what you do after exercise, not before.

Curious, source?

[LongCity]

Originally posted by revelations
a) switch to a forefoot strike (10% increase in endurance) - but do it gradually as your calves will KILL you

b) pound back potassium supplements (or OD on bananas) - noticeable increase in my performance

People often associate bananas with potassium but there are many more - just as common foods - that have much more. Oranges for example.


Originally posted by Hakkola
Also, fuck static stretching, you lose something like 10% or more of your muscle strength. That's what you do after exercise, not before.

Was told something similar many years ago that static stretching rests your muscles or puts them to "sleep" so to speak. It's relaxing them and not preparing for intensive training. But I've come to notice there are some muscles that need stretching that only static stretches can stretch well.

[Hakkola]

Originally posted by revelations


Curious, source?

I wrote a short paper on it a few years ago and had some academic sources which I can't find now, but a quick google search gave me a bunch of pages.


Recent studies also confirm that static stretching does reduce your explosive strength immediately following the stretching period (up to an hour or so). Therefore this method is best used after training sessions, not before. https://www.coachkaehler.com/blog/2009/01/20/hamstring-stretching-flexibility-and-strength/


Several recent studies, many of which have been reported in this column, assert that stretching before lifting weights leads to a loss of strength during the weight training. The main purpose of stretching in that situation is to warm up the muscles and increase flexibility, but according to recent studies, increased flexibility is not desirable when strength and muscular performance during training are the goals. Even the necessity of stretching to prevent injury is debatable, with several studies showing no protection. At first glance it appears that stretching should be restricted to those engaged in nothing more strenuous than aerobics. Don’t confuse that with warming up, however. No one argues that a warmup increases muscular efficiency. The suggested warmup would be lighter movements of the same activity you plan to engage in. http://imbodybuilding.com/articles/stretching-for-strength/

also interesting:

Contrary to popular belief, stretching before a workout does not appear to decrease the occurrence of injury. The risk of injury seems to be about equal for those who stretch and those who do not stretch before exercise. The warm-up, not stretching, seems to be the important deterrent for injury, performed before an exercise bout. Stretching seems to offer more long term benefit such as maintaining functional flexibility and correcting particular muscular imbalances.
Greater flexibility may impair performance in sports that that do not require a high degree of flexibility such as running. Runners with less flexibility are actually more efficient at running (Jones 2002). Intense static stretching may also reduce maximum force production. The loss of voluntary strength and muscular power may last up to one hour after the static stretch (Evetovich 2003, Young 2003). People who participate in activities that require more than average flexibility (eg: gymnasts, dancers, figure skaters) may still find stretching beneficial to their performance. http://www.exrx.net/ExInfo/Stretching.html


he reality is that static stretching is a poor form of warm up for any type of exercise. I think the problem lies not with static stretching itself, but with what people expect to gain from it. It shouldn’t be used to warm-up; it should be used to increase flexibility in the long run, thereby reducing injury risk. http://www.hotbodytraining.com/the-low-down-on-static-stretching/

More
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=120882291


Recent research concludes that passive, static stretching can result in an acute loss of strength and power as tested in sprinters and soccer players. This loss of power results in decreased sports performance (particularly sprinting, jumping, and agility tasks) and possible increased risk of injury. Dynamic stretching is the recommended warm-up for this athletic population as it actively increases blood flow to muscles in a functional pattern of movement without impairing performance. http://ptsportswellness.wordpress.com/2011/07/02/the-run-down-on-your-warm-up/

I really, really hate static stretching before activities. :D

[canadiandaytona]

read 'Born to Run", great book.

[revelations]

Originally posted by Hakkola


I wrote a short paper on it a few years ago and had some academic sources which I can't find now, but a quick google search gave me a bunch of pages.

https://www.coachkaehler.com/blog/2009/01/20/hamstring-stretching-flexibility-and-strength/

http://imbodybuilding.com/articles/stretching-for-strength/

also interesting:
http://www.exrx.net/ExInfo/Stretching.html

http://www.hotbodytraining.com/the-low-down-on-static-stretching/

More
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=120882291

http://ptsportswellness.wordpress.com/2011/07/02/the-run-down-on-your-warm-up/

I really, really hate static stretching before activities. :D

Always good to learn something new...thanks :thumbsup: