Best Bike for Learning

[littledan]

Hello all,

I'm taking my motorcycle license course in a couple of weeks. I'd like to get a inexpensive bike to learn on for this season. I have already started acquiring gear, and I will be riding with the full setup because I value my life/skin over money. I'm pretty short (5'6" ~145lbs of pure muscle) so I would like something with a relatively low seat height. I've sat on bikes with ~32" seat heights and i'm on my tip toes both sides. At that height I would probably have to one cheek sneak it.

For my first season, I am thinking of getting a small displacement bike, that will be easier to learn proper technique. My plan is to ride that for 1-2 seasons until I am comfortable wringing it out. I wouldn't be wringing it out on the street, but at a track like stratotech if i can find an open lapping session of some sort. I am very inexperienced, having only ridden a small dirtbike that I used to rip around on in the parking lot of my buddy's shop.
Most of the guys i talk to about the subject, keep dismissing my idea of getting a smaller bike and try to pressure me into a 600 saying "oh you'll get sick of a small bike so fast" and "you'll regret it". None of these guys have ridden on the track and I question their actual riding abilities. I have one good friend who has raced motocross from a young age and has done the YSR racing circuit for a year or two. He was definitely supportive of a smaller bike.

So I'm trying to settle on which bike to purchase. The short short list in increasing cc order is the Honda CBR125R, Kawasaki ninja 250, and the ninja 650. does anyone own one of these machines and have any feedback? Will i get sick of the 125 after a few rides? I'm not so much interested in straight line speed, more in learning proper cornering technique, up and down shifts, threshold braking, riding position and hand/foot position etc. I have seen some 125r in the $1800 range which is quite attractive from a budget point of view. My gear will cost me about $2500 so I don't want to rack up too high a purchase price on the bike itself.

Let me know your thoughts!

http://www.motogpworld.com/images/honda_cbr125r_7550.jpg

http://www.cars0.com/wp-content/uploads/Kawasaki-Ninja-250r.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_mFsX2_n1RGc/Sma1cVc1nGI/AAAAAAAAAoM/mS5w-f82N6Q/s1600/NINJA%252B650R%252B1.jpg

[Troll-ol]

The 125 are really slow, like a 125cbr makes 13 hp. I would at least go for a 250, unless you're still young/or a woman. For a street bike I would want at least 250cc.

Edit: the 0-60 time for the 125 is 14 seconds, which is so slow for a bike.

[interlude]

get a cbr f4i and lower it

[BrknFngrs]

I vote Ninja 500

[kevie88]

Get a ninja 250. Great little bike! I haven't ridden the new 400 Kawi but I think that's a great option as well.

After 20 years of riding and roadracing/trackdays, I own a 400cc bike! Little bikes are a blast. Don't let people tell you you need a 600+cc to have fun.

[bituerbo]

Get a used 600 or 650, carb'd is better than fuel injection for learning, as the throttle delay is a very forgiving side effect.

I bought my 2006 ZZR600 in '06, and I'm still happy with the performance. If I had bought anything smaller, I would have had to upgrade already.

Next bike will be a 1000... or 848 ;) but that's still a ways off.

[Cos]

If you weight under 175 lbs I voted the 250. If you weight over 175 I say the 650.

The wife has a 250 and she loves it. For me I ride it and it is pretty slow. Still fun as hell though.

[RC-Cola]

I recently purchased a Ninja 250 simply for the reason that i wanted to get back into riding and not scare that crap out of myself everytime I get on the bike.

I'm 6'0 tall and 195 lbs, I've already had the bike on Deerfoot on several occasions and have maintain with traffic no problem. I'd say that I can't rip it up to 140km/h instantly, but again I didn't want that to start.

In addition, there are a lot of them around so I know that I'll retain the value of the bike. If I ride it a fair bit this summer I'll sell it in Aug/Sept and look at getting a bigger bike, if I don't then I'm simply out a helmet and riding gear.

Last thing is buy your gear online, except your helmet. Gear will cost about 50% of what you pay locally. Watch review videos and comments on site, teh community is pretty good about giving straight answers. I'd suggest Revzilla (http://www.revzilla.com/sportbike-gear) or Sports Bike Track Gear (http://stores.sportbiketrackgear.com/StoreFront.bok)

[Ukyo8]

You'll get sick of a small bike in a couple of weeks, just make sure that you buy a used one so that you can resell it without a loss.

[Cos]

Originally posted by Ukyo8
You'll get sick of a small bike in a couple of weeks, just make sure that you buy a used one so that you can resell it without a loss.

That isnt always true. I know people who have ridden the 125 Honda or 250 Ninja for 2 years now and still love it.

[Ukyo8]

Originally posted by Cos


That isnt always true. I know people who have ridden the 125 Honda or 250 Ninja for 2 years now and still love it.

Do they have vaginas?

[Cos]

Originally posted by Ukyo8


Do they have vaginas?

one does

[Ukyo8]

Originally posted by Cos


one does

That's what I thought lol

Kidding aside though, you can ride a litre bike just as responsibly as small bike, it all comes down to the rider.
Some people are more comfortable with learning on a small bike and then moving up, but I just don't relate because the first bike I've ever ridden was a 1600cc Harley haha
Then I moved onto a 750 gsxr for a couple of months, and then I got a litre bike.

I just thought I'd mention to the OP that it's a good idea to buy a used small bike so that he doesn't take a depreciation hit in case he wan't to move to a larger bike later on.

[Go4Long]

The 250 is the greatest learning bike there is...it's a LOT of fun, and pretty impossible to do anything on it that will make it react in an unexpected way...650's are also great starters. I personally started on a 600, but to each their own.

To throw another wrench in the mix, Honda did release a CBR 250 this year, and if it's anything like the 125 it'll be a great learner...just with enough power to actually go places.

[Cos]

Originally posted by Ukyo8


That's what I thought lol

Kidding aside though, you can ride a litre bike just as responsibly as small bike, it all comes down to the rider.
Some people are more comfortable with learning on a small bike and then moving up, but I just don't relate because the first bike I've ever ridden was a 1600cc Harley haha
Then I moved onto a 750 gsxr for a couple of months, and then I got a litre bike.

I just thought I'd mention to the OP that it's a good idea to buy a used small bike so that he doesn't take a depreciation hit in case he wan't to move to a larger bike later on.

Dont get me wrong I agree 100%. I have had every iteration of bike except a 750.

I guess what I am trying to say is not EVEYONE cares about speed. That is why people still buy scooters, cruisers, enduro's. Some people just like having a small bike and some dont want the speed.

I, for one, am NOT someone who can ride a slow bike. I only take my wifes bike around the community. However it is fun as hell reving the 250 up to 11,000 and still be legal on the street.

[Go4Long]

that's why I loved the wife's 250 too :P you could ride it like a complete asshole and still not be doing anything wrong :P

[Toilet_D]

Originally posted by Ukyo8


Do they have vaginas?


Oh you!

[RiceMonkey]

Originally posted by Cos


one does

No Wonder

[AndyL]

I'm so going to go against the grain here... I've made my mistakes (my FJ1100 is probably still down at the bottom of kickinghorse canyon); and learned from some great riders - and now I mop up 5-6 bike wrecks a night. It's always the same stories...

Crotch rockets should never be your first bike. Why do I say this - because as a new rider you're going to make mistakes. Add lots of power, and some 'nimble' handling characteristics (read instability) - you're asking to become a statistic.

If it were me - I'd be hunting for something like a suzuki bandit GSF - A nice middle road bike. Not much plastic to replace when you do fuck up (and you will) reasonable power, decent handling as you're a little longer with a bit more rake than a crotch rocket. And the more upright seating position - keeps your head up naturally; so you're more likely to actually be watching for people doing stupid sh*t in front of you.

My .02, take it or leave it.

[Troll-ol]

I'm hoping to get a 200cc for my 1st bike, its a 2 stroke so plenty of low end torque. Might not be fast but it will run a high 14 quarter mile.

[A790]

Originally posted by BrknFngrs
I vote Ninja 500
I started on a Ninja 500R. Best learner bike ever.

[Shogged]

don't go for a 125. the tires are way too small and the contact patch is the size of a nickle, seriously. The new CBR 250 is great! It's purpose built, so no dirtbike parts. It's fuel injected so you can hop on and go anytime. The Ninja 250 is another great choice.

Anyone who says that a 250 isn't any good is probably just a squid. you don't need a 100 hp bike to "be safe and keep up with traffic."

[RC-Cola]

Originally posted by Shogged
don't go for a 125. the tires are way too small and the contact patch is the size of a nickle, seriously. The new CBR 250 is great! It's purpose built, so no dirtbike parts. It's fuel injected so you can hop on and go anytime. The Ninja 250 is another great choice.

Anyone who says that a 250 isn't any good is probably just a squid. you don't need a 100 hp bike to "be safe and keep up with traffic."

I agree 100%, except I'll admit that I wouldn't want to take my 250 Ninja out to Banff. It's great for ripping around town and learning, but I wouldn't feel comfortable on it on the open highway, it's too light and can't accelerate fast enough when you get to those speeds (130+ or highway speeds).

[Shogged]

Originally posted by RC-Cola


I agree 100%, except I'll admit that I wouldn't want to take my 250 Ninja out to Banff. It's great for ripping around town and learning, but I wouldn't feel comfortable on it on the open highway, it's too light and can't accelerate fast enough when you get to those speeds (130+ or highway speeds).

fair enough but I feel much safer going 110 and keeping all the idiots in front of me where i can see them! 110 on a 250 is a piece of cake and still has rpm left to overtake if necessary!

[Cos]

Only problem we have had with the wife's two fifty is merging onto the highway can be sketchy because you don't quite have the acceleration of cars.

[4bier]

besides a couple dirt bikes back home.my first was 1982 gs1100e
very heavy bike but learned real quick just be respectful of the bike you ll be fine

but if your still uneasy start with a vespa:dunno:

[hellraiser456]

i started off with a liter bike. but i have the respect for power and a good head on my shoulders. this will be my thrid season incident free. And i fully intend to keep it that way

reason people say to go for a bigger bike is cause, in the case of a cbr125 or even some 250's, hitting highway speeds means nearly topping the thing out.

also, once you get the hang of how a bike works, you will grow out of that really quick. those bikes are ment to boot around city roads not for highways. that's why people are saying 600's. they are extremely common, easy to find parts for and still fast. so you aren't going to grow out of the bike, and if you want to make it track worthy, you won't feel so freakin slow on the track.

but its all about comfort to. i know most bikes you can adjust the height at the rear wheel. so this will usually help the vertically challenged. the honest to god truth is look around. go sit on bikes, listen to them run. take a buddy that knows bikes so he/she can give you some experienced insight on the particular bike you are looking at. but the reality is you can get into just as much trouble with a small cc bike as you can with a large. i find its more people lane changing into you and simply not seeing you that are the biggest hazards. i would say yes...get a 400 to 600cc bike. i say this because this means you won';t be in the bike market again in a year, you'll have lots of fun and be able to keep up to your buddies, and as long as you stay aware of what's going on around you and stay focused and have respect for the power and your ability on a bike, you'll be fine. i have no regrets starting on a liter bike, and now, my third season in, i can't even tell you how happy i am that i own it. my buddy actually started on a liter bike too, and he is driving it slower then my grandmother would, but that's fine, cause i can see that he isn't pushing his ability too far and he is getting comfotdable with the controls and the way a bike handles. there's no rush to learn, no pressure, just learn at your own pace and what ever feels comfortable, whether its a 125cc or a 1000cc

[Scat E46]

I started on a 600, just use your head.

Mine still scares me sometimes when the front starts getting light and a near tank slapper situation.

Good luck, and take a course, so invaluable.

[Toilet_D]

Originally posted by Scat E46
I started on a 600, just use your head.

Mine still scares me sometimes when the front starts getting light and a near tank slapper situation.

Good luck, and take a course, so invaluable.

Omg me 2!! We're twinzies

[Unknown303]

Originally posted by Toilet_D


Omg me 2!! We're twinzies

You guys are totally gay for each other.

[Scat E46]

w00t

[Cooked Rice]

125 - no, unless it's a Aprilia RS125 2 stroke, those are pretty sweet little bikes.
250, excellent beginner bike, probably the best IMO. This is what I started with, and I still have it, Ninja250. You aren't going to be a speed demon by any means, but it gets the job done. You can get it up to about 170KM/H. Highways are no problem, passing is no problem, twisties are still fun. I actually got a ticket on Sunday on deerfoot with it, lol. And i've done numerous trips to the mountains with it. Great for learning your lines with too, as you aren't as prone to charging your corners. The new CBR250 looks pretty nice, IIRC it's EFI as well. You can wring out the motor to redline every shift, and really have a lot of fun and your money's worth. My next bike will be probably a 750+ but for the track only, I'm planning on keeping my 250 for the street. It depends what kind of person you are, I know I would do some dumb crap on the street with a big bike, so I am restraining myself to something that won't get me in a lot of trouble.
I will also add the new Ninja400 would also be pretty ideal for a well mannered beginner bike with good room to grow.

In the UK, you can't even go over a 250CC until you have rode for 2 years. Or until you are 21, which requires another test for a more powerful bike. And they breed exceptionally good riders.

Whatever you do, put the peer pressure aside and leave your ego at home. Ride what you are comfortable with, at whatever pace you are comfortable with. If you are with friends and such, never feel obligated to try and keep up with them if you aren't comfortable, it'll come around to kick your ass. If I were to do things over again, I'd get a cheap banged up bike, a good set of leathers, and hit up a large parking lot getting comfortable with counter steering and leaning the bike over.

OH! And NEVER listen to anyone that doesn't ride. You won't believe the amount of people who've taken "buddys" bike for a rip around the block a couple times in their life and tries to give you their 2 cents when they don't even know what counter-steering is.

[SIC1]

500cc min. I ride a 00 R6 been riding for 13 years now.

99 F4 was my first and Im 5'4. had a YSR 50 as a pit bike. Then a 99R6 and a 2001 R6, 04 R6, 09GSXR and back to just picked up the 2000 R6 last year since moving from Ontario.(and Banff AB summers are way too short)

as previously mentioned carb'd bikes for easier maintainability/rid-ability.

ninja 250 if you don't mind flipping it at the end of the season. (and the vagina factor lol)

ride anything... as long as you feel comfortable.

If anyone is selling a YSR, I love those things

[jdmXSI]

Currently i am taking the Calgary safety Councils course and with any luck i should have my class 6 by Sunday. Once that is done, i should be taking delivery of a 10' Ninja 250R next week. I went through the same dilema as you and i know if i had a larger displacment bike i just may be tempted to open the throttle alittle more than i should. Without having any riding experiance before hand, the 250R seemed like the right choice (from reviews) because it has enough power to keep up in the city but not too much where it can get you into a really sketchy position. eventually i am sure i would move up in size but not until i am totally comfortable a confident in my abitility to control the bike.

[revelations]

Most riders have a hard time with parking lot-speed maneuvering, if you can master this with a 125 or a 250 then youll be better off when the time comes to upsize.

The part thats really tough is the maneuvering from counter-steering to not (and vice versa).... around 15 kph i think.

When you get the bike, find an empty parking lot (or PM me and I will let you know of a good place in the SE) and just have some fun with the bike, turning, stopping and starting.

People always say CC is the biggest thing as far as dangers of a bike..... not true. Now you can get an R6 (130hp) which has more HP than my 1000cc SV - though you have to rev the piss out of the R6 to get it.

[RC-Cola]

As stated above, I have a Ninja 250 and find myself starting to look at bigger bikes.

I've done a few demo days as I'm not too sure what my next bike will be...

That being said I have NO REGRETS getting a smaller bike to start, even if it's for a few months. If you don't have previous street bike experience it's a great starting point. You can certainly get yourself into trouble with this bike, but it's small enough to help you recover from these mistakes without taking a spill.

I found driving some of the larger bikes that they are so fast that it's VERY easy to go into corners too hot and if your not able or good at counter steering or know enough not to brake you will end in the weeds/posts/curbs very quickly.

Buying a used 250 for $3000-$4000 will get you into biking fairly cheap, drive it for a bit to get used to biking flip it for the same price then get the bike you want.

Ignore SIC1 vag comments above, drive within your ability and build your skills not your hospital bills!