Lost truck keys while camping (1999 F150)

[illtim3d]

I went maylong camping near Fairmont, BC and have lost the only ignition key I have for my 1999 Ford F150. My truck is several KM into the bush, and towing it out is going to be sketchy to say the least. I was reading on the internet that Ford only keeps the codes used to program the keys using the VIN for 10 years, which means im screwed. The key is a chipped "PATS" transponder key, which I understand requires the trucks computer to be reprogrammed in order to make a new key. Does anybody work for a Ford dealership or have any experience with this problem?? What should I do?

Thanks beyond

[chkolny541]

edit,

[Tik-Tok]

edit: nevermind, it looks like you do need a stealership computer to program a new key :nut:

[sillysod]

My brother in law did this. Fell off the boat in Kelowna and lost his explorer keys.

Had to go to the local ford dealership with the VIN # to get a new key.

[illtim3d]

@chkolny541

I plan to call them today, it was a holiday monday yesterday so I had no choice but to leave my truck there and go back to Calgary

@sillysod

What year was the explorer? Apparrently they only keep the VIN codes for 10 years. Im going to call Ford on my lunch break

[sillysod]

It was about 5 years ago and it was a '98.

[swak]

I'd look for that key like my life depended on it.
..Can you not call a locksmith to make something up? Or does it have to be ford specific?

I called a locksmith with no key before, and he made me up something on the spot.
Didn't have a chip in the key mind you, but its worth a shot

[leftwing]

find a professional car thief to come and jumpstart your car?

[illtim3d]

@swak

I tried calling a locksmith but he cant do anything because its chipped. I just got back from Universal Ford and they basically told me it has to be towed to a Ford Dealer (closest one is atleast 150km away in Cranbrook). This is going to be interesting.

[Cos]

AMA Gold gives you 250km i think. Get someone to tow you out to a legal road and have ama tow it from there.

[ExtraSlow]

Ford should be able to make you a new key from the VIN, but it'll cost you a mint. a third key can be programmed from two good keys, but if you have one, or none, you need the code from the factory.
When I had this done for my 2000 expedition abut two years ago at Crowfoot Ford, it cost me $180. Call around the dealerships. metro wanted $240 for it.

I have heard that some locksmiths can program a new PATS key, but I've never found one.

Even if you get it towed, you'll have to pay for the new keys, so that's not much of a solution. May as well get the keys first.

Good luck.

[GT.....O?]

Ask them if you can take the computer out of your truck and bring it in to them.

If you can get the computer out yourself you would avoid the towing fee at the least. It might take you a little while, but you would avoid the towing fee.

If they have to reprogram the computer for a new key they should have the proper hook-ups and would either pull it out themselves or hook up to the OBD II anyways.

Its worth a shot if you can do it yourself... :dunno: :dunno:

[sillysod]

Locksmith cant do anything for you on this.

I strongly recommend you to post this up on the FordTrucks forum. I can guarantee you someone on there will have a work around for you.

[ExtraSlow]

ford DASH trucks DOT com is a good one.

I'm a member over there.

[adidas]

This reminds me...A couple of years ago i go on a trip with a good buddy to kelowna. We leave all our stuff in the trunk of my car as we were staying at a hostel and didnt want anyone to touch our stuff. The first morning, my buddy asks for the keys to go grab some stuff from the car i give him my keys and he comes back and says he forgot the keys in the trunk.

No biggie, i figured we will just a tow company to come unlock the door and i will pull the latch that is on my door for the trunk. Go downstairs and find out that the car is unlocked...fantastic news or so i thought. I had locked the trunk opening button that is found on the door just the previous day, along with both the back seats.

Okay, its Friday, ill call up dad and get him to send me a key Overnight shipping into Saturday.

We get the key in the morning, all happy, we can put on some fresh clothes and enjoy the rest of the trip. Come back to the car, i can unlock the doors, i can start the car but i cant open the glove box, the back seats, the trunk or the side door lock for the trunk. My dad had sent the valet key and not the programmed key in case the package got lost. So there we were 5 days in kelowna, wearing the same shorts, shirt as the previous days. Luckily we had our wallets and toiletry essentials.

I cant complain tho, saw a 10/10 at the strip club. So it wasnt all that bad.

[illtim3d]

Thanks for all the suggestions guys, I really appreciate it!



@Cos

Thats looking like my most likely solution so far. AMA said that to get a tow truck in the bush its a $150 "off road" fee plus $150 per hour until you reach a legal road. Im trying to find a buddy with a big 4x4 who would be willing to help for $$.

@ExtraSlow
Its a 1999 so they cant make me a key even with the VIN because Ford dumps all the codes after 10 years (2009). Its pretty stupid to do that if you ask me :banghead:

@GT.....O?
That sounds like it could work! Ill see what info I can dig up.

@silly

Thanks im going to check it out

[rob the knob]

update to date?

[ExtraSlow]

are you SURE ford dumps the old codes? I suspect someone has given you bad information.

[Mar]

Ya, I'm pretty sure they keep the codes forever. that's like admitting your cars suck so bad that nobody owns one that's 10 years old.

[illtim3d]

Update:
been calling the Ford dealerships in Cranbrook and Golden, and im working on getting it towed to either one. If it is raining this weekend out where my truck is located it will be impossible to tow out of the bush because the sand/dirt literally turns into clay. Im pretty sure that Ford does dump the codes, but i guess ill phone around a few more dealerships and see what kind of bs they spit at me. Life lessons learned

[Tik-Tok]

Don't call. Just walk in to a local dealership and ask for them to make you a key. If they say they need the vehicle, tell them the circumstances, and gauge their reaction. That'll tell you if they do keep them or not. Calling the ones in BC, all they're hearing is "sucker" and "ching ching".

Or shoot an email off to Ford Canada, and see what they say.

[m10-power]

Used to be a ford dealer in Invermere, did you check there, should be closer.

Seems kinda dumb they cant get you a new key without the vehicle, if you prove you are the owner that is all that should be needed. Reminds me why I dont own a ford.

[illtim3d]

Originally posted by Tik-Tok
Don't call. Just walk in to a local dealership and ask for them to make you a key. If they say they need the vehicle, tell them the circumstances, and gauge their reaction. That'll tell you if they do keep them or not. Calling the ones in BC, all they're hearing is "sucker" and "ching ching".

Or shoot an email off to Ford Canada, and see what they say.

Went to Universal Ford and told them my situation and they found it pretty humorous and basically shrugged me off like "not my problem buddy". They said they need the truck on location to help me out. Im gonna be spending $$ regardless of where i go to get a key made so they get to hear "ching ching" if i get towed there or not so i dont see how that makes a difference. :dunno:

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by illtim3d


Went to Universal Ford and told them my situation and they found it pretty humorous and basically shrugged me off like "not my problem buddy". They said they need the truck on location to help me out. Im gonna be spending $$ regardless of where i go to get a key made so they get to hear "ching ching" if i get towed there or not so i dont see how that makes a difference. :dunno:

A small town dealership in the middle of BC would be more likely to lie to you about needing the truck, and not keeping key codes, seeing as how you would need they're expensive tow service to get it to them.

At least you have an honest answer now, they don't keep codes. Universal would have nothing to gain by lying.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by m10-power
Seems kinda dumb they cant get you a new key without the vehicle, if you prove you are the owner that is all that should be needed. Reminds me why I dont own a ford.

How would you program the ECU to accept new keys if they don't have the car?

All the VIN can do is cutting a key. The transponder in the car isn't programmed to accept the new chip in the new key.

[illtim3d]

I guess your right. Now hopefully it isnt raining all weekend so I can get it yanked outta the bush and back home!

[410440]

Does your truck have a remote start that you know of?

Chances are, if its an older unit - you have a key buried under the dash that is programmed and would work.

[AndyL]

Just a question... Did you happen to google bypass PATS :) You might have to buy a few and figure out which code it is - then return the extras... But it's still just a plug in module - get a regular key cut and your golden.

[silvercivicsir]

all the pats bypasses need two keys to learn

[Rat Fink]

.

[RickDaTuner]

lowest cost thing for you to do is get a key cut based on the vin. IIRC 89 is the year that they stop holding keys for cars, but if the dealer doesn't have it a lock smith can provide you with it. also buy a new ignition cylinder

with that key, head out to your car, and pull out the PATs module, BCM, and the PCM.

Find a friend or anyone who has the exact model of your truck

Install your PATs, BCM, and PCM into his truck then either take it to the dealer and have a new key programed, or get a mobile locksmith to come to your door.

Alternatively, if you know some one with the same year truck as you, then you can take his Modules, and new cylinder that matches his key, just to get your truck home.

May seem like a lot of work, but by doing it this way, you are saving yourself the tow bill, and partial cost of reprogramming...

best of luck man.

[illtim3d]

Originally posted by Rat Fink
I'm a Ford tech. Are you locked out of your truck at the moment? Another thing to consider is the ignition tumblers may very well have 1 extra cut from the door locks. The newer ones are like this, I'm just not sure if they did that back in '99. So, if you have a key cut for the door lock, they may have to guess at that last cut for the ignition.

I'm not sure about the 10 year rule (our parts guys deal with that and cut our keys so I don't have exposure to that). I deal with the programming of them. I do know the dealership gets charged a fee for looking up the lock code based on VIN number so they will pass that charge onto you.

We had a guy get his truck towed to us last year. He lost both keys. We cut a key based on the VIN number and then later found out he had his door locks and ignition lock changed at some point. We had to get a locksmith to cut a few keys (non-chip keys) to the door and then we guessed at that final cut until it worked in the ignition. We then had to cut a chip key that matched and then program that to the vehicle. It was a pain in the ass and definately not something I'd want to do in the bush.

If they can cut a key based on your VIN, it's going to save you a huge hassle (I will ask our parts guy about the 10 year rule if I remember tomorrow but its really easier for you to make the phone call). Without 2 programmed keys on hand, you will need the IDS or other capable scan tool (I heard autoenginuity can program them). When using IDS, there is a 10 minute countdown timer to access the PATS security options, during which time the key needs to be turned on. If you end up getting out there with a scan tool make sure you have booster cables to keep your truck from going dead during this time if the battery is weak.

You might be able to get a dealership to give you their shop foreman or an apprentice and have them go with you and bring a scan tool but I don't imagine that being cheap either. Also, if you are a sketchy looking dude people may not want to go with you!!! haha You will also need to figure out the key cutting situation before that stage. If you can get into your vehicle you could always take your steering column out and bring that to a locksmith (make sure you do not turn the steering wheel with the column removed or you will damage the clockspring....tie the wheel to the column or tape the shit out of it so it can't turn, etc). once you get that matched up you can get a chip key cut and try your best to talk someone into going with you and bringing a scan tool. You could always take your door lock out but you may run into the problem I mentioned earlier of the possibility that your ignition tumblers require 1 extra cut.

Without keys, if you get someone to tow you, you'll need to get around the fact that your steering wheel is going to lock on you. (dolly the front wheels, etc). To shift into neutral, you can pop the shift cable off the transmission shift lever (at the transmission) and move the shift lever 2 "clicks" forward. (1st click puts you in reverse, 2nd click puts you in neutral). Chock the wheels or put the e-brake on if you are underneath it!! You don't want it to run you over!!!

Or, buy a metal detector and go for another camping trip and hope you find your key!

Or, suck it up and pay the tow bill


I DO have a spare that was cut from the original ignition key that will unlock the doors and HOPEFULLY the steering column so im not too worried about that. The trucks a 5 speed if that makes a difference .Thanks for all the info dude ill most likely just get it towed!

[Rat Fink]

.

[m10-power]

Originally posted by Xtrema


How would you program the ECU to accept new keys if they don't have the car?

All the VIN can do is cutting a key. The transponder in the car isn't programmed to accept the new chip in the new key.

My point is I don't drive a Ford because of stupid shit like this, many other manufacturers can get you a key without having the vehicle at the dealer.

[Rat Fink]

.

[m10-power]

Originally posted by Rat Fink


ya, having measures set up so not every fuckface can pull a key out of a hat and drive away with your car is such a stupid thing. LOL

Even if a person is sitting in a parking lot with a ford IDS scanner, they purposely incorporated a 10 minute countdown timer before accessing the options to program a key just to buy more time to get noticed in the event the vehicle is being stolen. I don't think its such a bad thing?

This whole situation would've been avoided if the OP had 2 keys cut for his vehicle, which is what is recommended for any vehicle....even whatever you drive.


Yup because people lose their keys way more often then someone hacks the code and steals the vehicle.

Love to see the average fuckface go into another manufacturers dealership and come out with a key that wasn't theirs. Good luck with that...Maybe less CSI and more real life.

[J-hop]

Originally posted by illtim3d
I guess your right. Now hopefully it isnt raining all weekend so I can get it yanked outta the bush and back home!

hate to be the bearer of bad news but i'm pretty close to where you truck is and its been raining all week. Rain isn't supposed to let up anytime soon, Best of luck.

Is there anyway you could get someone else with a truck to pull the vehicle on a flatbed? UHaul in calgary will do one-ways to cranbrook (i've done it before) on their auto transport flatbeds. If you can get into the car with your other key to put it in neutral and bring a winch it could save you some coin.

[crapstixs]

Originally posted by m10-power



Yup because people lose their keys way more often then someone hacks the code and steals the vehicle.

Love to see the average fuckface go into another manufacturers dealership and come out with a key that wasn't theirs. Good luck with that...Maybe less CSI and more real life.
so you spend $70 000 on a truck, and some asshole walks into a dealership and gets a key made for your vehical and drives away with it. Im sure you will change your mind after that. If your getting keys made you have to show proof of ownership. I know with most chrysler dealers, they cant even program there own keys. they have to send a order out to there vendor in the states to get keys made.

realistically, I think your going to be towing your truck out of the bush. if you show up at a dealership with a heap of moduals your going to be told to go pound sand. If you try to bypass the anti-theft modual, your just going to put it into theft mode. From what I read off alldata there is no manual way of programing keys in. You need the ford scan tool. save your self the head ach and tow it.

[crapstixs]

Originally posted by J-hop


hate to be the bearer of bad news but i'm pretty close to where you truck is and its been raining all week. Rain isn't supposed to let up anytime soon, Best of luck.

Is there anyway you could get someone else with a truck to pull the vehicle on a flatbed? UHaul in calgary will do one-ways to cranbrook (i've done it before) on their auto transport flatbeds. If you can get into the car with your other key to put it in neutral and bring a winch it could save you some coin.
to get it into neutral, wiggle underneith the truck. and pop off the range slector and move it into neutral.

[RickDaTuner]

Hopefully your truck doesn't get flooded man... that would really suck

[AndyL]

DO NOT NEUTRAL TOW A F150! Wanna see the ford tow manual?

Driveshaft - take it off... Yes you'll have to get it into neutral first (e clip to disconnect and rotate 2 notches up)

Try out wrenchbender in canal flats - did some camping with the owners last year; they were pretty cool.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by m10-power


My point is I don't drive a Ford because of stupid shit like this, many other manufacturers can get you a key without having the vehicle at the dealer.

Really? One with chip key? That will be a major security hole/violation.

It's not just Ford. It's the same for my Nissan.

The ECU will only respond to the chips it's programmed to respond to. And no other chips. If there is a master key that can start all cars, it'll be a closely guarded and won't be given to anybody, probably not even dealers.

You have to understand that we are not just dealing with tumblers anymore. And pretty soon, there will be no tumblers to deal with at all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immobiliser

[rob the knob]

i have a few friends who have lost their only key to vehicle. i dont understand how they think this is a good idea and dont get copies made before they lose the only key. if you at home and you lock key in car then you still screwed pooch and need someone to slimjim or something your car.

[three33]

Originally posted by m10-power


My point is I don't drive a Ford because of stupid shit like this, many other manufacturers can get you a key without having the vehicle at the dealer.

Actually most if not all new cars come with chipped keys. I work at ford and I can cut you a key that will unlock the door and turn in the ignition but it wont start the car. The easiest way to explain it, look at it like a remote control car. Your key is the remote and you vechile is the car. You can buy a remote but unless you program it to the right frequecy it wont work. There is a 10 year rule on key codes. BUT sometimes you can get lucky. I do work in the parts dept so i know in most cases it doesnt work but i have had several instances that it did give me a code for the key. Like someone stated you also have to be careful that someone hasnt changed any of the tumblers cause for does not update there system to the new code. If you have any other questions feel free to pm me.

[m10-power]

Sure are some daft people on this forum

:facepalm:


Originally posted by Xtrema


Really? One with chip key? That will be a major security hole/violation.

It's not just Ford. It's the same for my Nissan.

The ECU will only respond to the chips it's programmed to respond to. And no other chips. If there is a master key that can start all cars, it'll be a closely guarded and won't be given to anybody, probably not even dealers.

You have to understand that we are not just dealing with tumblers anymore. And pretty soon, there will be no tumblers to deal with at all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immobiliser

Yes REALLY, call BMW, Porsche, GM, many others. If you need a new key they will check you out when you order it and then have one brought in. You don't need to bring your vehicle in.


Originally posted by three33


Actually most if not all new cars come with chipped keys. I work at ford and I can cut you a key that will unlock the door and turn in the ignition but it wont start the car. The easiest way to explain it, look at it like a remote control car. Your key is the remote and you vechile is the car.

No shit, thanks sherlock.

Again...

No one is going to walk into a dealership without the correct ID and come out with a key to someone elses vehicle. Even if they did it would be real easy for the police to track down when and who as well as who on the inside helped them out.

[Xtrema]

I still find that able to get a working key without the reprogramming ECU is a crock of shit.

If you have one working key, you don't need to go into ECU and register new keys by ignition sequence. If you have NO working key, you need to go directly into ECU need to be reprogrammed. This is especially true with systems that use rolling codes.

http://www.your-auto-locksmith.co.uk/replacement-car-transponder-keys.htm

http://www.autotransponder.com/2000_to_2009_ford_transponder_key_new_style_599114


You can follow the instructions that we send after having the key cut at a locksmith shop or a hardware store. Your vehicle requires TWO working keys that start the engine in order to program your key by yourself. If you have one key only, you will need to bring the new key and the vehicle to an automotive locksmith or dealership for computer programming.

[J-hop]

Originally posted by AndyL
DO NOT NEUTRAL TOW A F150! Wanna see the ford tow manual?

Driveshaft - take it off... Yes you'll have to get it into neutral first (e clip to disconnect and rotate 2 notches up)

Try out wrenchbender in canal flats - did some camping with the owners last year; they were pretty cool.

yea they are a good company, they towed us once when we hit a deer, driver was pretty comical, asked us which way the deer ran and then disappeared into the bush while we unloaded our truck into the rental, no luck though, said he was hoping for some good deer meat :D

definitely didn't suggest neutral towing the F150, we were discussing how to get in on a uhaul flatbed, don't think winching it 10ft would be an issue.

[SOAB]

Originally posted by m10-power
Sure are some daft people on this forum

:facepalm:



Yes REALLY, call BMW, Porsche, GM, many others. If you need a new key they will check you out when you order it and then have one brought in. You don't need to bring your vehicle in.



No shit, thanks sherlock.

Again...

No one is going to walk into a dealership without the correct ID and come out with a key to someone elses vehicle. Even if they did it would be real easy for the police to track down when and who as well as who on the inside helped them out.

don't listen to this guy. he has no clue.

yeah, you can come in, order a key that is cut by the VIN but no way in hell is it gonna start the car. eventually, the car will need to get to the dealership to have the keys programmed.

[AndyL]

Just dawned on me...

Know anyone with a megasquirt? Easy way around the ECU is to go around the ECU :) I notice you can find wiring schematics, maps all the bits to make a f150 megasquirt ECU... Bring a laptop for fuel map tweaks, plug the MS2/E in place of the factory ECU turn it over and go...

Just making the towing part clear - seen a few fords in tow on tow dollies - or flat towing; and I cringe...

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by AndyL


Just making the towing part clear - seen a few fords in tow on tow dollies - or flat towing; and I cringe...

What's the deal with not neutral towing a Ford?

[J-hop]

Originally posted by AndyL
Just dawned on me...

Know anyone with a megasquirt? Easy way around the ECU is to go around the ECU :) I notice you can find wiring schematics, maps all the bits to make a f150 megasquirt ECU... Bring a laptop for fuel map tweaks, plug the MS2/E in place of the factory ECU turn it over and go...

Just making the towing part clear - seen a few fords in tow on tow dollies - or flat towing; and I cringe...

i've got a megasquirt 1 box and wiring harness about 45mins from where the truck is. Unfortunately it would be a gong show to attempt it, calibrating sensors, getting the correct impedance on the injector banks (very risky to run low impedance injectors on early MS without resistor packs- could be diff on later models), then getting the correct start enrichments and even a base tune to get him home would be a massive undertaking. My box doesn't have spark either so that would be a no go haha

[AndyL]

I was thinking the ms2/sns after seeing a plug n play ecu retrofit kit...

There are baseline tunes for most engines - get ya out of the woods and to the dealer anyway... could be a hassle or easy, kiinda depends on your skill set...

[illtim3d]

Went out to the truck on sat morning, it was POURING rain. The trail was thick mud and clay. I marked out a path for the tow truck driver (Wrench Benders - Dennis) and left him the spare key that I had. He was able to tow it out yesterday on a flat bed and the truck is currently at the ford dealer in Golden getting new keys programmed. One step closer to getting my truck back!

Thanks to everyone who replied to thiss thread with suggestions and info, apprreciate it guys!

[Rat Fink]

.

[sidhucer90]

My friend lost they keys to his charger same situation.. they requested it be towed to the dealership after it was towed we sat around infront waiting for the key to be made... the guy comes out look at the vin writes it down goes inside comes out ten minutes later with the key programmed and alll... Fuck what a waste... They really dont even need your car to make the key for it they just need to confirm its yours and see it in person or something my friends was not happy..

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by sidhucer90
My friend lost they keys to his charger same situation.. they requested it be towed to the dealership after it was towed we sat around infront waiting for the key to be made... the guy comes out look at the vin writes it down goes inside comes out ten minutes later with the key programmed and alll... Fuck what a waste... They really dont even need your car to make the key for it they just need to confirm its yours and see it in person or something my friends was not happy..

The programming sequence only take 10mins or less. The keys are anywhere from $5-$10 each. Pretty sure dealer will stock them. Heck the Chrysler keys from last few years don't even have tumblers. Just grab one, program and off you go.

[SOAB]

Originally posted by sidhucer90
My friend lost they keys to his charger same situation.. they requested it be towed to the dealership after it was towed we sat around infront waiting for the key to be made... the guy comes out look at the vin writes it down goes inside comes out ten minutes later with the key programmed and alll... Fuck what a waste... They really dont even need your car to make the key for it they just need to confirm its yours and see it in person or something my friends was not happy..

i can't believe people are honestly this dumb. no wonder dealers get such a bad rep. so many uninformed customers that just assume the worst about everything.

[illtim3d]

UPDATE:

The truck is HOME! Drove to the Golden Dealership last night after work with my Dad and picked up the truck! The total for two new keys cut/programmed + labour was $150. I was expecting to pay atleast double that cost, so im pretty happy. Still waiting on Wrench Benders for the towing bill though, some of it will be covered by AMA.

Thanks again everyone

[Stealth22]

Glad to hear its all sorted out. :thumbsup:

[ExtraSlow]

Wow, you got a good deal on those keys. Like I mentioned above, I paid that much for one key in Calgary, and I was quoted even more from other city dealerships.

Glad it all worked out.

Somewhat off topic, but how does it work that AMA will pay part of your bill? I'm an AMA member, and I just want to know if I get myself in a similar situations.