What's the most creative cheating you've done?

[M.alex]

For several of the latter courses (400-500 level) I took, the professors based 40-60% of the final grade on assignments that were just questions taken out of the text books.

I figured solution manuals had to exist, so I made up a fake business, created a fake website, email address, and business card. Then I'd contact the distributors of the text book and say in my spare time I'm learning about (insert topic here, like time series analysis) and inquired if I could purchase the solutions manual to help me work backwards through problems for a better understanding.

All I had to do was scan a copy of my "business card", show them my "company" email, and they always overnighted me the solution manuals at no cost.

100% success rate (and I did it several times) :angel:

I almost got caught though when all my assignments were 100% perfect (duh, I'm copying right out of the instructor solution manual), except once there was an error in the manual and I copied it as well, line-by-line ..... however the prof bought the 'That's weird that I'd make that mistake too :dunno: ' line when she confronted me about it :angel:

Beat that for creative cheating :drama:

[lasimmon]

I or someone I knew usually had the solution manual to whatever text we were using (from older students, or torrents generally). So I generally didnt get to cheat in creative ways :(

[chkolny541]

i was sitting beside a girl in one of my chem finals in the big gold gym i think, right at the back. she was wearing a short skirt and she did the ol' up thigh cheat sheet trick a few times beside me. It was brave of her to cheat on a final like that i thought.

[yipb]

Originally posted by M.alex
For several of the latter courses (400-500 level) I took, the professors based 40-60% of the final grade on assignments that were just questions taken out of the text books.

I figured solution manuals had to exist, so I made up a fake business, created a fake website, email address, and business card. Then I'd contact the distributors of the text book and say in my spare time I'm learning about (insert topic here, like time series analysis) and inquired if I could purchase the solutions manual to help me work backwards through problems for a better understanding.

All I had to do was scan a copy of my "business card", show them my "company" email, and they always overnighted me the solution manuals at no cost.

100% success rate (and I did it several times) :angel:

I almost got caught though when all my assignments were 100% perfect (duh, I'm copying right out of the instructor solution manual), except once there was an error in the manual and I copied it as well, line-by-line ..... however the prof bought the 'That's weird that I'd make that mistake too :dunno: ' line when she confronted me about it :angel:

Beat that for creative cheating :drama:

wow.

does ur business still exist? :D

[colinxx235]

Most common way of cheating that I saw in Engg @ U of C was loading pdf's onto ipods/phones and using during exams, or someone would take frequent bathroom breaks.


The biggest cheater of all (well known to the mechanicals who just graduated especially) went through the whole process of faking a medical condition to receive the extra time on midterms and finals. (2 hours extra for a 3 hour final). This individual went into an almost private room and upon receiving the test would as quick as possible take pictures of the exam with his phone. He then e-mailed it to a group of students who were waiting together and would then breakup the questions and attempt to complete the exam in ~1.5 hours. Upon completing they would e-mail the solutions back to the individual, and then put copies of it onto their phones as well. Eventually he got caught, along with two others. U of C being the amazing school that it is... didn't even kick him out, he now has his ring + degree. :facepalm:

[G-ZUS]

Originally posted by colinxx235
The biggest cheater of all (well known to the mechanicals who just graduated especially) went through the whole process of faking a medical condition to receive the extra time on midterms and finals. (2 hours extra for a 3 hour final). This individual went into an almost private room.

I did that too :angel: In high school I didn't have to clear my TI-83+ like the other people writing in the gymnasium. @ SAIT, I saved all my STAT formulas on the TI-83+ :D

[ercchry]

i remember one instructor at SAIT use to give us assignments in a locked excel spreadsheet... quick upload to google docs and all the locked cells would magically become unlocked ;)

[ExtraSlow]

I generally found it was about the same amount of effort to cheat as to study. :dunno:
Overall, I just tried to learn the material. However, there were always some things that just didn't seem to stick in my head.

One thing I did was if there was a series of steps I needed to remember, I would break it down into an acronym, then write that acronym on my eraser, and use the eraser sleeve to cover it up. I was never caught, but I always figured that it would be impossible to decode, since it was very little information. At worst, I'd need two or three acronyms for a test, and there is always somewhere to write afive or six letters. That was enough of a memory jog for me.

[D'z Nutz]

Originally posted by colinxx235
U of C being the amazing school that it is... didn't even kick him out, he now has his ring + degree. :facepalm:

Without getting into specifics, I'm aware of a situation in which a student found a way to change his and a friend's grades and obtain answers on upcoming exams and assignments. When he was caught, nothing happened to him. I guess being an international student, it helps that you're paying double what the other students are paying :dunno:

[flipstah]

In one of my ECON classes, our prof mentioned that somebody brought an English-Chinese (and vice-versa) dictionary to our quiz and put in the time and effort to put his notes in the same, text and column format as the dictionary. He wouldn't had noticed if it wasn't for the different shade of paper.

He gave him an A for creativity and an F for the class. :rofl:

[arian_ma]

Originally posted by ExtraSlow
I generally found it was about the same amount of effort to cheat as to study. :dunno:

Only difference is that you get 100% when you cheat and you might get 100% when you study.
:devil:

[dandia89]

Originally posted by D'z Nutz


Without getting into specifics, I'm aware of a situation in which a student found a way to change his and a friend's grades and obtain answers on upcoming exams and assignments. When he was caught, nothing happened to him. I guess being an international student, it helps that you're paying double what the other students are paying :dunno:

I don't think most teachers want to report/go through the paper work of dealing with a cheater.

[turbotrip]

apparently people used to break into different prof's rooms in the mech building the night before the exams and take/photocopy the tests. there are no cameras there and you can easily get into the rooms using a credit card. one person would hold the elevator while 2 guarded the stairs on each side.
One kid decided to pull some real mission impossible shit a while ago and fell through martinuzzi's ceiling LOL, now he's crazy paranoid and stays till 3-4am often

[jazzyb]

Originally posted by D'z Nutz


Without getting into specifics, I'm aware of a situation in which a student found a way to change his and a friend's grades and obtain answers on upcoming exams and assignments. When he was caught, nothing happened to him. I guess being an international student, it helps that you're paying double what the other students are paying :dunno:

The university does not make more money, international students are just not subsidized.

[topmade]

One of the guys in the wifes class at SAIT left his laptop on in the bathroom with notes all ready to go and the teacher saw it when he went to the can.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Really? You guys were allowed smartphones in exams? No wonder it was so easy to cheat haha. All my exams were very strict about no smartphones, as that is clearly the easiest way to cheat these days.

[wintonyk]

I programmed all the amino acid structures into my Ti83 in prep for my biochem exam. But realized by the time i finished programming I had learned them all and didn't need the calculator.

Same exam an international student got caught with all of her notes in her little digital dictionary thing. Prof called everyones attention then ripped it up. It was great. Needless to say we never saw her again.

[gt2871r]

Get one of the big ass erasers with the paper cover on it and either write short notes or formulas on it (underneath covered area of course), or pretend to need to borrow it from a buddy or vice versa and share answers.

[rob.cal]

I'm too much of a pussy to cheat.

[Unknown303]

http://i.imgur.com/7pk99.jpg

[epp01]

You guys are lame, for a SAIT final I had I bought a bottle of water from super store, carefully took the label off, scanned it into my computer photo-shoped all the "ingredients" things off and then put my own answers in similar text, then printed the label off on camera paper cut it out and re-glued nobody had any idea. Hehehe.

[97luder]

Originally posted by epp01
You guys are lame, for a SAIT final I had I bought a bottle of water from super store, carefully took the label off, scanned it into my computer photo-shoped all the "ingredients" things off and then put my own answers in similar text, then printed the label off on camera paper cut it out and re-glued nobody had any idea. Hehehe.

niice !

[dandia89]

Originally posted by turbotrip
apparently people used to break into different prof's rooms in the mech building the night before the exams and take/photocopy the tests. there are no cameras there and you can easily get into the rooms using a credit card. one person would hold the elevator while 2 guarded the stairs on each side.
One kid decided to pull some real mission impossible shit a while ago and fell through martinuzzi's ceiling LOL, now he's crazy paranoid and stays till 3-4am often

they must have put a camera there recently, because i think i saw a camera on the main floor by martinuzzi's room

[AndyL]

:facepalm:

The state of higher learning... Seriously? If you need to cheat to get through school - what are you going to do if / when you get a job? IE when you actually need to apply those skills you've "learned". :dunno:

:facepalm:

[gojetsgo]

Stealing the prof's papers three times in a row for UofC finals. LOL. Passed with flying colors.

[gojetsgo]

No racist, but most of the hardcore cheaters were the "connected" lol Brown kids. Fail.

[ercchry]

Originally posted by AndyL
:facepalm:

The state of higher learning... Seriously? If you need to cheat to get through school - what are you going to do if / when you get a job? IE when you actually need to apply those skills you've "learned". :dunno:

:facepalm:

its called "networking" :rofl:

really, if you are cheating you still had to find that answer... :dunno:

[J-hop]

Originally posted by ercchry


its called "networking" :rofl:

really, if you are cheating you still had to find that answer... :dunno:

lol, but tests are all about if you know the material. If you pay attention the prof gives everyone the answer (whether its lecture notes, text or alternate readings), it shows no intelligence what so ever to bring answers into a test so "finding the answer" is no feat to brag about :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Funny story regarding that, a guy who was "friends" with my gf openly admitted to cheating off her test on a midterm (she is a 4.0 student so attracts those bottoms feeding scumbags). Second midterm rolls around, what do you know, the same guy sits behind her. For the multiple choice part of the test she selected all the answers she knew were wrong, then when back and changed them in the last 10 mins. She got 96%, dumbass got 48%. Whether its in school or in the work place (because you haven't developed any work ethic) if you're a cheater, you'll get yours :D

[rage2]

Originally posted by AndyL
:facepalm:

The state of higher learning... Seriously? If you need to cheat to get through school - what are you going to do if / when you get a job? IE when you actually need to apply those skills you've "learned". :dunno:

:facepalm:
You use google to find answers lol.

Seriously, studying and memorizing for a test is a skill that's completely useless in the real world.

[Cos]

In university it is called cheating. At work it is called collaboration.

Not sure if anyone will believe this but I was a goodie two shoes and didnt really cheat. Only thing I did was load a calculus program onto my Ti-83 to check my answers. It also showed the steps in case I got lost. I didnt use it much though as you got marks for all your steps so 99% of the time I was good. I usually only used it for the multiple choice ones where the prof would pick specific wrong answers if you did a step wrong. The other nice thing about the Ti-83 program was if I was in an exam for another course that also involved calculus it would save me a shit ton of time solving the equations. I figured it wasnt really cheating as I could prove my work and it wasnt a math class it would be implementation related.

[Mar]

I taped the sin/cos formulas to the inside of my calculator case so when I slid up the calculator I could see them. It didn't really help though, I played with it so much waiting for the exam to start that I ended up memorizing it just from looking at it for 20 minutes.

I never really had to cheat for university, all the tests were done with your text book and laptop, you could bring anything you wanted to the exam. You had to know how to code in order to pass.

[beyond_ban]

I came into this thread with a funny story... only too read a few posts and suddenly realize that it did not apply at all.

[J-hop]

Originally posted by Mar
I taped the sin/cos formulas to the inside of my calculator case so when I slid up the calculator I could see them. It didn't really help though, I played with it so much waiting for the exam to start that I ended up memorizing it just from looking at it for 20 minutes.


Just out of curiosity, if you were allowed a calculator (which I assume did trig functions), why would you ever feel the need to write the formulas down in the first place????

[XylathaneGTR]

Originally posted by colinxx235
Most common way of cheating that I saw in Engg @ U of C was loading pdf's onto ipods/phones and using during exams, or someone would take frequent bathroom breaks.


The biggest cheater of all (well known to the mechanicals who just graduated especially) went through the whole process of faking a medical condition to receive the extra time on midterms and finals. (2 hours extra for a 3 hour final). This individual went into an almost private room and upon receiving the test would as quick as possible take pictures of the exam with his phone. He then e-mailed it to a group of students who were waiting together and would then breakup the questions and attempt to complete the exam in ~1.5 hours. Upon completing they would e-mail the solutions back to the individual, and then put copies of it onto their phones as well. Eventually he got caught, along with two others. U of C being the amazing school that it is... didn't even kick him out, he now has his ring + degree. :facepalm:

You serious, brah?

I'm currently on mech internship, so I missed out on that.
Would you mind telling me who that was? I'm very curious. PM me if you like, and do not worry, I don't like to talk about people so I'll keep it on the DL...but I'd very much like to know.

[Mar]

Originally posted by J-hop


Just out of curiosity, if you were allowed a calculator (which I assume did trig functions), why would you ever feel the need to write the formulas down in the first place????
It didn't, it was a $5 calculator. I did advanced math in high school but was too poor to buy the calculator so I did all that shit by hand. :thumbsdow I've never had that TI thing people talk about.

[Xamim]

Originally posted by beyond_ban
I came into this thread with a funny story... only too read a few posts and suddenly realize that it did not apply at all.

:rofl:

But seriously, you guys got to use your TI-83s? Most of my exams did not allow programmable calculators. I remember when I wrote my first year chem exam, I had a TI-83 but I cleared it right before the test. Half way through the exam Mozol saw me using it, pretty much jumped over everyone and grabbed it out of my hands. After looking through it for about 10 minutes she gave it back to me and said "Never again." I haven't used one since then.

Edit:
Some of my GOPH classes allowed them, but I forgot how to use it to its full potential so I never even bothered.

[J-hop]

Originally posted by Mar

It didn't, it was a $5 calculator. I did advanced math in high school but was too poor to buy the calculator so I did all that shit by hand. :thumbsdow I've never had that TI thing people talk about.

ah yes lol, I was afraid you were going to be one of those people that doesn't understand taking the sin or cos of 0 or 90 degrees straight up gives you the formulas. Whenever I see kids writing out the formulas on the back of trig calculators I shake my head hahaha, great example of how cheating makes some people forget how to use their brain.

[colinxx235]

Originally posted by XylathaneGTR


You serious, brah?

I'm currently on mech internship, so I missed out on that.
Would you mind telling me who that was? I'm very curious. PM me if you like, and do not worry, I don't like to talk about people so I'll keep it on the DL...but I'd very much like to know.

Very serious. Darren (sp?) correct? If you took Mechatronics 2nd semester last year it was during that final (gold dipshit was very suttle about catching them tho) I don't really want to throw out the names of the two (well mostly one guy) who got caught in the final, at least not in a public post. But the guy who faked the medical condition drives a big white hummer, likes to park it outside of mech all the time (hopefully that gives it away). Ontop of that, he got booted from his design group with 2 or 3 weeks left because he is the biggest POS I have ever met in Engg... well tied with Sanjay... Kash money *hint hint* lol. :rofl:

[sputnik]

Originally posted by colinxx235
This individual went into an almost private room and upon receiving the test would as quick as possible take pictures of the exam with his phone. He then e-mailed it to a group of students who were waiting together and would then breakup the questions and attempt to complete the exam in ~1.5 hours. Upon completing they would e-mail the solutions back to the individual, and then put copies of it onto their phones as well. Eventually he got caught, along with two others. U of C being the amazing school that it is... didn't even kick him out, he now has his ring + degree. :facepalm:

In the real world that is called collaboration.

If he was a manager and his team was able to complete a 3 hour task in half the time he would be eligible for some nice bonuses.

[dandia89]

Originally posted by colinxx235


Very serious. Darren (sp?) correct? If you took Mechatronics 2nd semester last year it was during that final (gold dipshit was very suttle about catching them tho) I don't really want to throw out the names of the two (well mostly one guy) who got caught in the final, at least not in a public post. But the guy who faked the medical condition drives a big white hummer, likes to park it outside of mech all the time (hopefully that gives it away). Ontop of that, he got booted from his design group with 2 or 3 weeks left because he is the biggest POS I have ever met in Engg... well tied with Sanjay... Kash money *hint hint* lol. :rofl:

Hahah thats awesome. I remember him trying to start a fight midway through a lecture, man the kid is ridiculous

[colinxx235]

^

If you work at an Engg company maybe I can find his contact info so you can hire this "genius" rofl...

Dont compare working in the real world on a job to abusing medical conditions and cheating on a large scale factor in Engineering. The said individual and his friends are fucking incompetent. Most of them have spent 7+ years to get their degrees, despite the cheating they do. Thinking of them designing mechanical equipment or anything is a scary thought...

Any group of Engineers with all their notes out could complete a test before hand, it is nothing special. Merely skews the curve of the class and makes a mockery of the system. Oh well...

[jazzyb]

^ ez champ.

en·gi·neer·ing
   /ˌɛndʒəˈnɪərɪŋ/ Show Spelled[en-juh-neer-ing] Show IPA
–noun
1.
the art or science of making practical application of the knowledge of pure sciences, as physics or chemistry, as in the construction of engines, bridges, buildings, mines, ships, and chemical plants.
2.
the action, work, or profession of an engineer.
3.
skillful or artful contrivance; maneuvering.

-----------------------

Point three. Plus, besides copying of somebody's exam, i always found cheating to be more educational. Spent so much effort trying to cheat, on exam day i did'nt need to cheat.

[in*10*se]

Originally posted by colinxx235
Most common way of cheating that I saw in Engg @ U of C was loading pdf's onto ipods/phones and using during exams, or someone would take frequent bathroom breaks.


The biggest cheater of all (well known to the mechanicals who just graduated especially) went through the whole process of faking a medical condition to receive the extra time on midterms and finals. (2 hours extra for a 3 hour final). This individual went into an almost private room and upon receiving the test would as quick as possible take pictures of the exam with his phone. He then e-mailed it to a group of students who were waiting together and would then breakup the questions and attempt to complete the exam in ~1.5 hours. Upon completing they would e-mail the solutions back to the individual, and then put copies of it onto their phones as well. Eventually he got caught, along with two others. U of C being the amazing school that it is... didn't even kick him out, he now has his ring + degree. :facepalm:



Originally posted by sputnik


In the real world that is called collaboration.

If he was a manager and his team was able to complete a 3 hour task in half the time he would be eligible for some nice bonuses.


in the real world, when the bridge fell, it'd be called a lawsuit.

If he was an incompetent manager and signed off on a design being safe, he would be eligible for 10-20 in jail.

[Pahnda]

Originally posted by rage2

You use google to find answers lol.

Seriously, studying and memorizing for a test is a skill that's completely useless in the real world.

The majority of the tests I remember (other than ones in junior courses) were pretty much applications of what you know in unfamiliar situations / critical thinking / reasoning / etc... And who needs to be able to do any of that if you want an even moderately challenging job, right? :rofl:

Agreed on totally rote memorization-type tests though. Easy but generally not very useful in society currently.

[ercchry]

Originally posted by in*10*se


in the real world, when the bridge fell, it'd be called a lawsuit.


this would be pretty damn hard to achieve with the types of software available now a days

if anything i would say your best chance for fucking up a bridge that bad would be at the cement plant with a poor mix of concrete

[Pahnda]

Originally posted by ercchry


if anything i would say your best chance for fucking up a bridge that bad would be at the cement plant with a poor mix of concrete

Or Spanish welds. ;)

[Cos]

Originally posted by ercchry


this would be pretty damn hard to achieve with the types of software available now a days

if anything i would say your best chance for fucking up a bridge that bad would be at the cement plant with a poor mix of concrete

Depending on the world, but in ours (civil powerline design) it is pretty easy to trick the tool into saying it will pass when it really shouldnt.

[ercchry]

Originally posted by Cos


Depending on the world, but in ours (civil powerline design) it is pretty easy to trick the tool into saying it will pass when it really shouldnt.

is it a trick that you are aware of though? or a trick that can be made by accident?

[Cos]

Originally posted by ercchry


is it a trick that you are aware of though? or a trick that can be made by accident?

Lets say both lol. If you dont know the correct way to fix the problem (lets say the pole is bending too much) what you can do is just keep increasing the pole size (class) until the bending moment stops. Problem is that the heavier pole causes more downward stress on the soil and can create another issue.

That is the 'easy way' to fix it. The proper way to fix it is usually with deflection angles, improper data, anchoring.

Just an example that as an engineer if you dont understand why something is failing (or even passing) you HAVE to understand why it is coming up with those numbers.

[LongCity]

In highschool I had a fat mechanical pencil that unscrewed near the middle where I had put a small piece of paper in and when I needed something I'd unscrew it and slide the two ends apart to read the notes. My hands concealed what I was doing pretty well. I also remember once taping notes to the underside of my jersey so I could just flip up the bottom and read. Oh highschool... Haha

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by AndyL
:facepalm:

The state of higher learning... Seriously? If you need to cheat to get through school - what are you going to do if / when you get a job? IE when you actually need to apply those skills you've "learned". :dunno:

:facepalm:

Few people "need" to cheat, but when you realize you aren't getting anything out of a particular class (i.e. the vast majority of them), there really is no actual harm. Using myself as an example, I work in the O&G industry. If I cheated on a history exam (which I didn't) to pass one of my option (read: university money grab) courses, that literally doesn't matter even the slightest bit for my career (unless you get caught and expelled LOL).

Most classes these days are pure memorization/regurgitation exercises, which teach people literally nothing because you forget it 10 minutes after the exam. Think of how many hours you spent memorizing things like the 10 steps of the decision making process (just an example) only to regurgitate it on an exam. In the real world, not only would you never need to actually know that, but if you did, you would google it. Think of how much "filler" like that is in the average person's education - it's astonishing. Now, this doesn't apply to jobs like a doctor, civil engineer, etc. but most jobs don't actually require you to use a shred of what you learned in school and can easily be done by any competent person with a reasonable capacity to learn. Added to this problem is the amount of "option" classes everyone has to take so the Universities make more money. These classes take useless learning to a whole new level unless you are actually thinking of getting a job in Astronomy, Archeology, History, Women's Studies, etc. If those are simply interests of yours, there is no need to pay $500/class, you can learn everything you could ever want to know about those things for free online.

That, combined with the fact that many employers (not all) don't even check your grades, it sure doesn't provide much motivation. I can't even fathom how pissed off I'd be if I busted my ass every day for 5 years getting a crazy good GPA only to have nobody check my grades, or take my grades into consideration when hiring.

When I was looking for a job, I was told straight up by *multiple* employers they could give a shit about my grades or my degree - they only cared about my industry experience and my personality. For most jobs that is all that matters. Again, there are clear exceptions (doctor, lawyer, etc.), but for the most part, school just means going through the motions to get a piece of paper so you can get in the door somewhere. Nobody gives a shit about your schooling after you've been in your selected industry for a few years and have experience & contacts.

What you get a lot of these days with people who have 4.0's is book smart people. They can get 100% on any test but are completely useless in the real world. Not nearly enough emphasis is put on real world experience in school, yet that is mostly what matters when finding a job. I find that most schooling is designed simply to maximize profit for the University.

I don't condone cheating or anything, but VERY few people actually apply what they learned in school to their job because most schooling doesn't actually prepare you for the real world. It just teaches you to memorize and regurgitate, or teaches you to learn things you will end up Googling or using a calculator or program for later on in life.

I don't currently know a single person who is working a job they couldn't do had they never set foot in University and simply received real-world training instead for a fraction of the time they spent in school. I'd imagine this is the case for probably 75% or more of all students.

[Aniki]

^^
:werd: :werd: :thumbsup:

So true.

[DENZILDON]

Back in HS a classmate of mine taped an answer sheet at the back of our teacher! The teacher went around room so we copied the answers after he passes by. The funny thing is there were still a couple of guys that failed! lol!
:nut:

[Redlined_8000]

BBM group chat ftw lol..... good times.

[ercchry]

in grade 8 we had a teacher that was notorious for pissing off for 15-20 minutes at a time. she also did this during tests a few times... amazing how well a class does when they all work together :rofl:

[colinxx235]

^

cool story brah @denzil...

[Guillermo]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt


Few people "need" to cheat, but when you realize you aren't getting anything out of a particular class (i.e. the vast majority of them), there really is no actual harm. Using myself as an example, I work in the O&G industry. If I cheated on a history exam (which I didn't) to pass one of my option (read: university money grab) courses, that literally doesn't matter even the slightest bit for my career (unless you get caught and expelled LOL).

Most classes these days are pure memorization/regurgitation exercises, which teach people literally nothing because you forget it 10 minutes after the exam. Think of how many hours you spent memorizing things like the 10 steps of the decision making process (just an example) only to regurgitate it on an exam. In the real world, not only would you never need to actually know that, but if you did, you would google it. Think of how much "filler" like that is in the average person's education - it's astonishing. Now, this doesn't apply to jobs like a doctor, civil engineer, etc. but most jobs don't actually require you to use a shred of what you learned in school and can easily be done by any competent person with a reasonable capacity to learn. Added to this problem is the amount of "option" classes everyone has to take so the Universities make more money. These classes take useless learning to a whole new level unless you are actually thinking of getting a job in Astronomy, Archeology, History, Women's Studies, etc. If those are simply interests of yours, there is no need to pay $500/class, you can learn everything you could ever want to know about those things for free online.

That, combined with the fact that many employers (not all) don't even check your grades, it sure doesn't provide much motivation. I can't even fathom how pissed off I'd be if I busted my ass every day for 5 years getting a crazy good GPA only to have nobody check my grades, or take my grades into consideration when hiring.

When I was looking for a job, I was told straight up by *multiple* employers they could give a shit about my grades or my degree - they only cared about my industry experience and my personality. For most jobs that is all that matters. Again, there are clear exceptions (doctor, lawyer, etc.), but for the most part, school just means going through the motions to get a piece of paper so you can get in the door somewhere. Nobody gives a shit about your schooling after you've been in your selected industry for a few years and have experience & contacts.

What you get a lot of these days with people who have 4.0's is book smart people. They can get 100% on any test but are completely useless in the real world. Not nearly enough emphasis is put on real world experience in school, yet that is mostly what matters when finding a job. I find that most schooling is designed simply to maximize profit for the University.

I don't condone cheating or anything, but VERY few people actually apply what they learned in school to their job because most schooling doesn't actually prepare you for the real world. It just teaches you to memorize and regurgitate, or teaches you to learn things you will end up Googling or using a calculator or program for later on in life.

I don't currently know a single person who is working a job they couldn't do had they never set foot in University and simply received real-world training instead for a fraction of the time they spent in school. I'd imagine this is the case for probably 75% or more of all students.


Originally posted by Aniki
^^
:werd: :werd: :thumbsup:

So true.

These are pretty silly opinions IMO. you guys are basically saying that getting a good education and getting good grades doesn't matter, and I utterly disagree. A good GPA demonstrates consistent performance in different areas, in different class settings and group dynamics, and over long periods of time. you guys are also suggesting a negative correlation between GPA and "real world" ability - i.e. that people with high GPAs can't get along in the real world. As an educator, I can tell you that this simply isn't true. i've had hundreds of students, and can think of maybe 2 or 3 extreme cases where someone with a very high GPA couldn't relate well with their peers... but the vast majority of students with high GPAs have excellent leadership skills, which is is obvious when you watch how these students interact with their peers in class.

if I had 2 people that were equal in all respects except for GPA, of course i am going to take the person with a higher GPA.

finally, i should like to point out that one of the reasons a "general" education is important is because it opens doors. Having a high GPA good marks in many different and seemingly seemingly irrelevant areas is a good thing, because it gives you choices upon graduation instead of having to get a job in whatever sector.

[ga16i]

I've never actually cheated, but back when I was doing my undergrad in Comp. Sci at UofC, I'd often pick options that I knew just required straight memorization and most topics could be broken down to 2~3 tables to cover 90% of the exams.

For example, in Anthropology, once you have the evolution chart of primates memorized, that'd probably give you 80% of the whole exam right there. The same goes for other junior level exams. So, learn the vocabulary, and basically make a tree with index counts and all and store a compressed version in your head, and "decompress" as soon as you get into the exam and recreate the charts onto the exam papers. In the end, for all those crap options I skipped most of the lectures, and only spent the day before the exams to filter and compress materials to score at least a 85% while spending the rest of my time on the important courses :D

It's almost like semi-cheating where there's a cheat sheet involved and I didn't actually know the material off the top of my head, but it's a cheat sheet dumped onto the exam papers from memory and then decompressed.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by Guillermo

These are pretty silly opinions IMO. you guys are basically saying that getting a good education and getting good grades doesn't matter, and I utterly disagree.

That's not exactly what I'm saying. I only think that for some/most jobs - but certainly not all jobs. You took what I said a little too generally I think. I also never said it doesn't matter at all - everyone still needs that piece of paper to get in the door. My argument is more that in *most* cases, getting a 4.0 is pointless, because it's not a reflection on how smart someone is, rather how much effort they are willing to put into useless stuff they will never use in the real world. Any retard can get a 4.0 GPA if they are willing to work for it. The VAST majority of people I know are like this. They are amazingly skilled, but have zero motivation when they are trying to be an engineer sitting in a History or religious studies class because they are forced to take X amount of "options". If you want to break it down into a smaller example, lets say you're in a class that requires you to memorize a ton of formulas, lists, etc. My memorization of those things I can look up in a matter of seconds in the real world has absolutely ZERO reflection of my skills, intelligence, or real world ability, yet most classes require exactly that sort of mindless regurgitation on exams.


Originally posted by Guillermo
A good GPA demonstrates consistent performance in different areas, in different class settings and group dynamics, and over long periods of time. you guys are also suggesting a negative correlation between GPA and "real world" ability - i.e. that people with high GPAs can't get along in the real world. As an educator, I can tell you that this simply isn't true. i've had hundreds of students, and can think of maybe 2 or 3 extreme cases where someone with a very high GPA couldn't relate well with their peers... but the vast majority of students with high GPAs have excellent leadership skills, which is is obvious when you watch how these students interact with their peers in class.

if I had 2 people that were equal in all respects except for GPA, of course i am going to take the person with a higher GPA.



Of course good grades can mean good real world ability, but you are missing all the people who are lazy but smart. They are lazy *only* in school because they see no value in all the "fluff" they are being taught and paying for (because they are smart haha). That is absolutely not a reflection of their abilities in the real world when they are actually doing something worthwhile or that they love and are good at. In the real world, they are easily as good or better than someone busting their ass for a 4.0 GPA. Since the schooling itself isn't likely to be applied to the job, depending on what it is, if you picked the person with the 4.0 you wouldn't necessarily be getting the better candidate.

When you're a student, sitting there memorizing pages and pages of lists, the 10 steps of this and that, formulas, etc. etc. you know its COMPLETELY useless in the real world which has computers, google, common sense, team work, collaboration, etc. School these days, for most degrees, is not geared at all toward what you will actually be doing when you get a job in a particular field. This was probably my biggest issue, after I was done with University and looked back on everything.

The classes that are worthwhile are the ones that provide real world experience, real world simulations, tons of group work, allow the use of ANY resource, etc. because those are all the things you get in the real world. I had a few of those and they were worth it.

Go out and ask employers if they would rather have someone with a 4.0 GPA and no work experience, or someone with a 2.5 GPA, the same degree, and plenty of real world work experience in a field they excelled at. 9/10 times the one with experience will be picked. After your first job, your grades will never be checked again.

I also don't think how people relate with peers in class is a good reflection on how well you perform in the real world, leadership skills, or of your GPA. I'll use myself as an example. I hated going to school because many classes were utterly worthless. I never raised my hand, I don't like speaking out in class, I used to hate public speaking, etc. I always got reduced marks for class participation (don't even get me started on profs who grade you on class participation), etc. Anyways, I always did pretty well in school with minimal effort, always did stuff last minute, etc. I was satisfied getting mostly B's. So, I didn't have a 4.0, I wasn't very social in class, and I certainly did not take charge or any sort of leadership role in class. I am the complete opposite in my job, which I do well at, requires leadership, and have to deal with clients on a daily basis. How I may have come across in school to some profs was not even the slightest indication of my performance in the real world where it matters.


Originally posted by Guillermo
finally, i should like to point out that one of the reasons a "general" education is important is because it opens doors. Having a high GPA good marks in many different and seemingly seemingly irrelevant areas is a good thing, because it gives you choices upon graduation instead of having to get a job in whatever sector.

If the employer doesn't check your GPA, it's difficult to argue that it was worthwhile having no life for 5 years to get a 4.0. After the first year or 2, or after your first significant job, your grades will never be checked again. Also, having high marks in worthless classes like Astronomy, etc. is not likely to open doors for anyone if they are shooting for a job in O&G, engineering, etc. Also, if your major is in, say, business, and you took a couple geology classes along the way, you certainly won't be getting a job as a geologist if your business degree fails you. All things considered, most degrees are fairly specific to a particular field, and dabbling in other options isn't going to get you anywhere if plan A fails.

I also think it's hard to argue that if you took 2.5 years to teach someone to do a job (half of the time it takes for a good degree) and if you spent the same amount of time as you would have in school teaching that person to do a small variety of jobs in a particular field, they would be far better at it than anyone just coming out of school. That experience would be far more valuable. As long as that individual was intelligent, competent, and had the ability to learn, it would be far superior to 5 years of schooling where 50% or more of the classes were completely irreverent to their desired occupation. I can think of VERY few jobs a competent individual couldn't learn to excel at in ~2.5 years.

Again, I do not believe that educations are worthless, clearly, as I have one. You need that piece of paper to get in the door just about anywhere. I do however believe that in *most* cases, grades don't matter (obviously you need to pass though). I also believe that most degrees could be cut in half, keeping only the core courses, and people would come out just as educated. I have yet to talk to a single employer who values GPA over all other attributes. I have, however, talked to employers who said they will NEVER hire based solely on GPA again, because they ended up with a plethora of completely useless people who were only book smart. Job experience and contacts, especially after the first few years in any industry, will take you much, much, farther than a 4.0 GPA ever would in many situations.

The people who usually disagree with me are people in the education field (not surprising) and people who try to justify having no life for 5 years getting a 4.0 GPA (its funny because everyone I know who did this didn't have their grades checked when they got hired). The people who usually agree with me are fellow students, who are now working exactly the same job they would have been if they had a 4.0 or not. I certainly don't expect everyone to agree with me at all, but my comments are based on my experience, observations of others, and talking with people responsible for hiring in the O&G industry. Also, please don't think I am saying all teacher's jobs are useless, or anything like that. Clearly, that is not the case. I just think there is far too much "fluff" and useless crap cluttering most degrees you can get these days.

[Guillermo]

LOL, are those employers the same people paying you to type all that? :nut:

i don't have time (or desire really) to get into it, but there is more to an education than job training. when i graduated with my bsc, 85% of univ. grads were finding employment in fields outside their major, demonstrating that university is not merely job training.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by Guillermo
LOL, are those employers the same people paying you to type all that? :nut:

i don't have time (or desire really) to get into it, but there is more to an education than job training. when i graduated with my bsc, 85% of univ. grads were finding employment in fields outside their major, demonstrating that university is not merely job training.

Haha, I had some spare time, and I wrote that almost entirely over lunch :).

Anyways, I agree there can be more to education than job training, but if 85% of grads were finding employment outside their field, that is an equally good argument for their education being somewhat useless. If I'm an engineering grad, hired for an HR job, the fact that I am an engineer has nothing to do with my ability to excel at the HR job. That is where general intelligence, competency, etc. comes into play because they are going to have to learn 100% of the job through experience. If an employer hires someone for a job based entirely on unrelated degree credentials, IMO that person is not very smart haha.

But yes, this debate could go on for ever so there is really no point. We can agree to disagree!

[jazzyb]

University is NOT job training, unless you are studying Engineering, Medicine and a few select other specialties.

[Pahnda]

lol at all the people butt-hurt from school.

I had a great time at University even though I had to take a few useless classes (STAS, technical writing, etc...) that had almost nothing to do with any engineering topic whatsoever, ended up with good grades, and am a good enough employee that my employer was trying to convince me to not leave my job. :dunno:

Like with almost anything else in this world, your education is what you make of it regardless of what school you go to... Which is also why cheating is idiotic.

[turbotrip]

Originally posted by jazzyb
University is NOT job training, unless you are studying Medicine and a few select other specialties.

fixed

[Tik-Tok]

In grade 4, I plagiarized the Tom Hanks Dragnet theme song, when we were supposed to write a "poem". :rofl: Seriously... who the fuck expects a 9 year old to write a fucking poem?

QvkHOSUApzQ

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt


Any retard can get a 4.0 GPA if they are willing to work for it.

The only point I am going to bother responding to as I am with Guilerrmo on this one;

No, they can not. What you fail to realize is that people who tend to go to university (no matter how retarded you think they are) make up a VERY high percentile of the smartest people that can go. Very few people in my class were going to get a 4.0 (hell, even I didn't and I tried a bit, I got a 3.94 due to some laziness in the third term) and that was only a technology diploma. How about you come back with actual stats rather than what you "feel" and then we'll talk?

I can honestly answer that my 3.9GPA has gotten me my first two jobs out the door of school, and will probably help with my third. I do agree that once you have some SOLID experience that is related to your field that your GPA matters a lot less. But 5 years is a LOT of time to gain that experience, especially when you are young and fresh out of post secondary. Hell, I'll be on my 3rd job in just over a year (poor choices on my part :nut: and no I haven't been fired)

Finally, I wouldn't hire 95% of the people I went to school with to work for me, including the people I did my final project with that we annihilated everybody else on. I also wouldn't hire people that thought that they could/should cheat because they can get away with it/because it doesn't matter.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1


The only point I am going to bother responding to as I am with Guilerrmo on this one;

No, they can not. What you fail to realize is that people who tend to go to university (no matter how retarded you think they are) make up a VERY high percentile of the smartest people that can go. Very few people in my class were going to get a 4.0 (hell, even I didn't and I tried a bit, I got a 3.94 due to some laziness in the third term) and that was only a technology diploma. How about you come back with actual stats rather than what you "feel" and then we'll talk?

I can honestly answer that my 3.9GPA has gotten me my first two jobs out the door of school, and will probably help with my third. I do agree that once you have some SOLID experience that is related to your field that your GPA matters a lot less. But 5 years is a LOT of time to gain that experience, especially when you are young and fresh out of post secondary. Hell, I'll be on my 3rd job in just over a year (poor choices on my part :nut: and no I haven't been fired)

Finally, I wouldn't hire 95% of the people I went to school with to work for me, including the people I did my final project with that we annihilated everybody else on. I also wouldn't hire people that thought that they could/should cheat because they can get away with it/because it doesn't matter.

If you think I meant anyone who goes to University is retarded, you completely missed my point. I rambled a lot though so I apologize if I wasn't clear.

Not many people get a 4.0, but you definitely don't need to be smart to get a 4.0. You may need to work 10X harder than the average person to get a 4.0, but you can still get it. It's all about the effort. You even mention yourself, you could have gotten a 4.0 if you put in a bit more effort. If a person of below average intelligence spent every waking hour of their life studying, they could probably have a 4.0 (or very close to it, (I just use 4.0 because it's easy to reference). I went to school with tons of kids who had crazy high grades, didn't strike me as smart people at all, but stayed at school every day until 10 or 11pm studying. The thing is that most people try to strike a balance with their social life in school, so that's why everyone doesn't get a 4.0. If every single student always worked to their absolute maximum potential, a lot more people would have 4.0's (or close, whatever).

I don't use statistics because I am not trying to create some giant argument. I clearly stated my post was just based on my own observations, everyone I know whose education/job I'm familiar with, and every employer I've talked to or had. Clearly not everyone is going to agree with me, or have the same experiences, and that's 100% fine. You are the first person I've ever talked to whose grades were a key consideration for their job. Of course that happens, but you must realize a lot of employers don't care about grades as much as you may think. Some of that no doubt will depend on what field you're in. I do agree it can't ever hurt your situation, so it's something that every individual must decide for themselves if it's worth it. In my case (and again, every person I can think of who I was friends with during school), we'd all have the same jobs as we do now regardless of our grades.

I had 3.5 years solid work experience (doing my actual job) by the time I was done school. I had time to get that experience because I spent only what time was required of me to do well in school, but not crazy good (I usually got B's or better). That allowed me to work a full time job at the same time. During my interviews, and also the company who hired me, I was told several stories of employees who didn't work out for them in the past because they A) had no experience and B) they hired based on grades and got completely useless employees who were only book smart.

I don't condone cheating either, I think I already mentioned that though. Anyways, I was just throwing in my experiences with school, I'm not trying to insult anyone, tell them their grades are worthless, etc. All that matters is that you're comfortable with YOUR decisions.

[Guillermo]

here's a good article from last week's New Yorker that is relevant this thread. I was going to post it earlier, but couldn't find it in a quick google and had to wait until i got home and could get the title.

it's called "live and learn: why we have college."

http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critics/atlarge/2011/06/06/110606crat_atlarge_menand

[XylathaneGTR]

Originally posted by colinxx235


Very serious. Darren (sp?) correct? If you took Mechatronics 2nd semester last year it was during that final (gold dipshit was very suttle about catching them tho) I don't really want to throw out the names of the two (well mostly one guy) who got caught in the final, at least not in a public post. But the guy who faked the medical condition drives a big white hummer, likes to park it outside of mech all the time (hopefully that gives it away). Ontop of that, he got booted from his design group with 2 or 3 weeks left because he is the biggest POS I have ever met in Engg... well tied with Sanjay... Kash money *hint hint* lol. :rofl:


Yeah, that's correct.
I remember that final, but mainly because I was shitting myself because I didn't know half of it...I don't really remember anything else going on.
From that description, I'm unsure of who that is. Like I said, I've been away from campus for the last year and I don't recall anyone driving a Hummer the year before.

[Mar]

Originally posted by ercchry
this would be pretty damn hard to achieve with the types of software available now a days
Don't make these fucked up bridges somehow my fault! :rofl:

[Disoblige]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt

Anyways, I agree there can be more to education than job training, but if 85% of grads were finding employment outside their field, that is an equally good argument for their education being somewhat useless.
Ouch! :rofl:

:thumbsup:

[n1zm0]

Originally posted by epp01
You guys are lame, for a SAIT final I had I bought a bottle of water from super store, carefully took the label off, scanned it into my computer photo-shoped all the "ingredients" things off and then put my own answers in similar text, then printed the label off on camera paper cut it out and re-glued nobody had any idea. Hehehe.

this idea worked for me and many others tons of times in HS but also you can print inside the paper so with translucent liquid of anykind it can be seen. you then have double the cheating power!!

http://images.pleasedrinkaknife.com/themoreyouknow.png

At SAIT though, not so much cheating, if you did it wasn't worth it because everything basically revolved around a Ti-83, where they'd make you erase the database/memory or w/e before going into the tests

[schocker]

Originally posted by n1zm0
At SAIT though, not so much cheating, if you did it wasn't worth it because everything basically revolved around a Ti-83, where they'd make you erase the database/memory or w/e before going into the tests
Not in my program, but I didn't have to with all our formula sheets and such.
http://i52.tinypic.com/1zpnq85.jpg

[Redlined_8000]

Originally posted by schocker

Not in my program, but I didn't have to with all our formula sheets and such.
http://i52.tinypic.com/1zpnq85.jpg


My teachers thought there was a reset button at the back :rofl:

[sabad66]

IMO the point of University is to teach you how to learn. Really the only thing that matters when you are out of school. Nobody goes into a job fresh out of Uni and knows what they are doing. You'll be trained no matter what you do, so the best skill to have is to be good at learning/picking things up.

Anyways back on topic :rofl: Haven't actually done this, but heard of this cheating method:
1. Someone who has taken the course the previous year goes in to the exam room and steals a paper.
2. Brown guys (who are actually writing the test) hide bluetooth headsets under their turbins
3. Guy from 1) is in another room with notes/other people who have taken the test, calls his friends and goes through the test with all of them.

[turbotrip]

Originally posted by sabad66

2. Brown guys (who are actually writing the test) hide bluetooth headsets under their turbins


haha said brown guys all got kicked out of uni and ended up graduating from sait

[DTTB_36]

Best cheating I have ever seen was in my grade 9 math provincial final. One guy passed his multiple choice sheet to his buddy. Said buddy took five minutes to fill it out and passed it back. Everyone but the teacher saw it.

[Disoblige]

Originally posted by turbotrip

haha said brown guys all got kicked out of uni and ended up graduating from sait
NUFF SAID.