Put dog down or give to SPCA

[pea_soup]

Need some serious help on this as I'm deeply torn. I've owned a wonderful chocolate colored boston terrier for the better part of 4 years now. She is an absolute pal and she's been with me through some rough times but has always been my little friend. She was my little buddy when I was going through my divorce so to even think about getting rid of her is so hard.

We were dog sitting for my in-laws this weekend, or least my wife had agreed to. I left them alone for roughly 90 minutes as I had to go work. I come back to find two dogs with bloody all over them and the eldest dog laying down riddled with puncture wounds.

So obviously some kind of fight happened. We assumed my Boston Terrier and their Jack Russell had a bit of a tiff and the third dog which is a wierd furry little cross got in the middle and ended up getting attacked by both.

Apparently this is something to do with pack mentality according to the vet.

The thought of putting my dog down brings me to tears. At the same time I know when we have kids I'll never be able to completely trust the dog around them.

I know I could put her down or take her to the SPCA but what are the other options?

I was hoping there would be some way of finding a new home for her without the risk of her being put down. I just feel it would take a very specific family to fulfill her needs. She is a very loving dog but she is extremely dominant and very powerful for a boston terrier.

anyways any logical insight anybody might have or advice is so very appreciated.

[revelations]

Many people have luck with Kijiji. Post up good pics of the dog (in her better days) and odds are good shell be picked up.

Just make mention of the specific needs.

[bignerd]

Only thing I think you could do is re-home into a home with no other pets and no children.

I do believe the pack mentality can get a lot of dogs riled up, I have been at a show before and someone had their two terriers in a pen and they started fighting, making all this noise. The entire building erupts in barking, growling and howling because a fight gets other dogs so worked up-dogs that wouldn't normally fight or bite. Even my dog gets all excited and riled up.

Can you say for sure it was your dog that was fighting? Terrier breeds are notorious for scrapping...(when I say terrier I am referring to the Jack Russell).

Also NO dog should ever be left un-supervised with a child, even one that has no history of agression.

If you do re-home her you need to be 100% honest about why she is being re-homed, I am not sure what the liability is if you don't tell someone about her issue and it happens again in their home...

[jdmXSI]

^^ I was thinking the same thing. Are you sure it was your dog that instigated the fight? Has your dog ever shown that kind of aggression before? Has it happened since? If 2 out of 3 are no, I would say you should keep your dog.

Good luck!

[pea_soup]

She was for sure involved. I am quite certain it was likely a fight that started between the Jack Russell and my Boston Terrier and the other dog just got caught in between and them they both started attacking her. She is a rather large Boston Terrier at 32 lbs and she's not fat, just solid muscle. She is very beautiful, decently trained but she is dominant, purely dominant. There is no other way around it.

Our other two dogs we have are a Jack Russell cross Border Collie and a Chihauhau cross Boston Terrier. All three get along great. All 5 dogs we had here knew each other so I couldn't have thought there would have been a problem.

Also we don't have children yet but we are in that phase we are wanting it to happen. So we are making the proactive decision in trying to find her a home as I seriously feel ill about putting her down.

I also can't even say how it started so it makes it worse. My Boston has a couple bite marks on her face and one directly below her eye. I personally believe the other dog likely attacked her as she is an older dog with a short fuse and well just snaps sometimes. It's the only way I could see my dog acting this way.


Either way the SPCA option seems so limited as they don't really give the dog a lot of time to find a new home.

[pea_soup]

I can't know for certain. She's only did something like this 1 other time and it was in self defence. She did attack a much larger purebred adult Boxer. For whatever reason she seems to have no fear of dogs regardless of their size. Other Boston's seem greatly intimidated by her when we are out for walks.

She is just highly dominant there is no other way to put it. She doesn't like when other dogs snap at her or try to be dominant in her territory.

Blah I feel sick to my gut right now. $1600 in Vet bills to go along with all of this.

[Maybelater]

Farmers might be intrested in the dog.

[J-hop]

the SPCA or any other shelter will NOT adopt out a dog that shows aggression towards other dogs or humans, so you are out of luck there.

this can be trained out of them but it will take a lot of work, trust me I had similar issues with our schnauzer.

[pea_soup]

She doesn't show any agressive tendancies unless she is defending herself. I'm fairly sure any dog will defend itself when it's attacked.

She's actually really playful and loving. Likes to give kisses and play tug...

[voodoomusic]

Speaking as someone who grew up around dogs (mother was a breeder), most dogs see humans (including kids) and other dogs quite differently. Especially if they're trained that way. I don't buy that because a dog showed aggression to/got in a fight with another dog, it's not going to be trustworthy around a kid. If that were true none of our dogs would have qualified. Some of them were downright nasty/territorial with other dogs, others were generally fine but got in the occasional minor spat (somebody stuck a nose in someone else's food bowl, somebody got stepped on, etc.), but all of them were great with people and kids.

I'm sure there are some good training resources online or at your local bookstore that can help you train your dog to make the adjustment to a kid.

It's very unlikely your vet would agree to euthanize a healthy dog because it got into one dog fight, and if he did I would seriously question his ethics and qualifications.

All that said, if you decide for whatever reason that you can't keep the dog, before you go to the SPCA please look hard for a rescue organization. Basically all they do is take dogs that are in exactly this situation and rehome them into an environment where they stand a better chance. As someone upthread pointed out, this could be as simple as finding a home that doesn't have any other dogs or any kids. Rescue organizations don't allow dogs to be euthanized (unless they're completely unstable and dangerous despite all best efforts to help them). They are damn good people and I am very proud to support the Ontario chapter for my breed (they're usually somewhat breed-specific) even though I have never needed their services. Please do some research ... EDIT: actually, fuck it, I'll do it for you. Here you go:

Boston Terrier Rescue Canada Alberta
Calgary, AB T2A 5A6
[email protected]
http://www.bostonterrierrescuecanada.com

Hope this helps.

[J-hop]

100% agreed that dogs see kids and other dogs completely differently. The thing is though if your dog attacks another dog you are liable for all damages regardless. so OP you will have to make for absolute sure it was just a case that she was attacked and defended herself before giving her to an adoption agency.

I do not believe in adopting an aggressive dog out to a family with no kids/dogs. That is a band aid solution. For example say if your dog is anti social and freaks out at other dogs when you walk by other people with dogs. The band aid fix is to avoid all people walking there dogs, where as the better solution is to confront it head on and discipline as necessary, a huge part of a dog's attitude is nurture NOT nature. Which is why I never buy the age old BS comment of "my dog is just like that". The absolute worst thing to do is to avoid an issue and let it fester as any trainer will tell you.

Again OP i'm not saying your dog is like that, just my opinion on how things like this should be handled.

And also, it sounds like from your comment this isn't the first time she has shown aggression? what were the other cases like? does she allow other dogs to sniff her while out on walks? if she doesn't and I know this sounds weird but you have to force her to present herself to other dogs, by holding her and allowing the other dogs to sniff her, if she won't allow it without you forcing her that is a sign of abnormal aggression as it is a natural form of communication or saying hello to them. A dog should not get bent out of shape over this.

[kvg]

Thats a really hard call but I do believe you are getting some great input from here. I do think it would be easy to find a home for a well mannered small dog.

Best of luck

[Mar]

I don't understand the problem. A dog is going to have the same natural instinct around children regardless of what they've done in the past. I don't think an instance where your dog gets into a fight adds any possibility they'll behave any different than any other dog around kids. It doesn't make sense.

[pea_soup]

Apparently not. I was reading some of Caesar Milan's writing and it seems he thinks Dogs view other dogs in a pack like mentality and unless they are trained inproperly they view humans to be leaders. It's when the dog thinks they own the human that creates problems? Still seems messed to me and I'd always have this fear in the back of my head saying "what if" something happened.

She is the territorial dominant type. From what we can gather tonight there is a chance she was attacked by another dog which caused her to fight back. She had some puncture wounds around her eyes which tells me some dog had to have snapped at her first because they wouldn't have an opportunity to try it twice. The other dogs she was with are basically half her weight so I just can't see them putting up this kind of fight.

Either way I'm awfully sad today and I'll be exploring all avenues before using the Humane Society's services. I just want her to go some place safe where she'll be loved. She's truly like a best friend to me so it's heart breaking.

[403Gemini]

^^ That's just it (your first paragraph). You are there to create the pack mentality and essentially be "the alpha." A lot of dogs i've been around are raised and trained that they are all equal (the dogs) and the humans are the alphas. I would never leave a baby/toddler alone with a dog, but a lot of my friends who have dogs , the dogs treat the infants like family (I have a lot of cute pictures / videos of dogs cuddling up to kids).

Are the dogs in your situation socialized quite frequently? I mean I leave my dog over at my girlfriends house or her parents place all the time because all of our dogs see each other almost every day of the week and we can leave them alone with no issue. If they aren't socialized too often, then yeah there can be a territorial complex. Honestly, I wouldn't get rid of my dog because it fought another one. Yes it sucks, but you can train it out of them to be like that if you're patient.

[403Gemini]

Originally posted by J-hop


And also, it sounds like from your comment this isn't the first time she has shown aggression? what were the other cases like? does she allow other dogs to sniff her while out on walks? if she doesn't and I know this sounds weird but you have to force her to present herself to other dogs, by holding her and allowing the other dogs to sniff her, if she won't allow it without you forcing her that is a sign of abnormal aggression as it is a natural form of communication or saying hello to them. A dog should not get bent out of shape over this.

^^:werd:

Socializing your dog is very important. Also if you hold your dog back from other dogs, it feels like it has a reason to be fearful/stand off-ish towards other animals and reacts the same way you , the owner acts. I'm not saying let the leash loose and let your dog run up to other dogs... in fact on a walk the dog shouldn't leave your side/behind you... still something i'm trying to implement with my little brat ;) she learns after about 10 minutes of me pulling her to my side and holding her there to stay by my side, but i dont go out of my way to avoid contact with other dogs.

[pea_soup]

See that's just it. All 5 dogs know each other and have for the last 3 years. The one female Jack Russell and my female Boston sometimes have little spats which often involve my Boston pinning her down to claim dominance. She has however never bit the other dog. She won't attack unless provoked first. It was an all out attack by the Jack Russell and the Boston on the other dog. It leans me to believe the other dog just happened to get in the way or was in the wrong place and then the other two just snapped.

I'm not even sure if the underlying issue in my dog is repairable or if it's a problem in the first place. It really just haunts me to think of the what if's going forward. To say the least she's not the kind of dog that will walk up to another dog and simply attack it. She is dominant though as my Wife has found out. Her Jack Russell/Border Collie cross used to the dominant dog when she was living with her parents. That lasted all of a week when we moved in together.

At the very same time though my Chihauhau displays dominance over the Boston. It's almost like the little one can do anything she wants. It's all very confusing to me.

Just in a state of shock still. The other dog is recovering well though.

Also special thanks goes out to the wonderful peace officer aka sheriff on Glenmore trail just outside of Calgary for giving me a speeding ticket. Tried to tell the guy I had a dying dog in the back and it was life or death. Didn't want to hear any of it. Apparently some people has no compassion in this world.

Picture of said boston.

http://www.khphotography.ca/moo.jpg

[lilmira]

Go get some help from a dog behaviorists, they can probably tell you if your dog has problems and show you what you need to do. It doesn't sound too bad if that is the only incident but keep in mind that once she's bitten it will always be in her memory.

My dog has a history of biting and I had this guy come to my house for two hours. He brought a dog too and did a few things to check out my dog. Now I know exactly what the problem is and I can slowly work to steer him away from it.

[pea_soup]

I can already see a change in her to say the least. She's now aware of her surroundings more. I don't know how to explain that. Didn't seem to notice it at the time but her face and torso is quite sore to touch. Would appear as if she had a good dozen or more puncture wounds herself just it didn't seem to bother her initially.

The odd part is that she always plays rough with other bostons and frenchie's. I always figured it was just how the breed played. I've seen it time and time again where these dogs like to rough house. I think it just takes one dog that's not used to it to push it past the play boundary...

[lilmira]

I've been told by different people that dogs are really good with how much pressure they apply with their jaws. For them to break skin with their bites, it's no accident, they know what they are doing.

Biting is the red zone, you need to understand what will get her there. The goal is to make her not even think about it. There are signs that you can notice when your dog is agitated. That's when you need to direct her away from getting to the zone. Once she's there, there isn't much you can do.

I was quite shocked when I found out the problem with my dog. It didn't help that I didn't know much about his history since I got him from a family who couldn't keep him anymore.
The option of giving him up has popped up in my mind several times and I'm glad that I didn't.

[Guillermo]

the dog didn't do anything wrong here, i don't know why you're thinking of putting it down. also, you only have yourself to blame to creating the situation that lead to the fight.

[Kennyredline]

http://americanthings.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/cesar-by-deadlinedotcom.jpg

Seriously, why not?

[SmAcKpOo]

It was probably the Jack Russell as those dogs are known for that kind of thing.

My step-sister left a Jack Russell alone with a cat and he disemboweled the cat. Pretty sick shit.

[J-hop]

In the case where your Boston is pinning the JR to assert dominance you should be disciplining her for that and teach her that isn't ok and asking the owner of the JR to do the same, it can end up being a great training ground for both dogs.

I really don't think you have anything to worry about with your dog around kids but I would still work on this issue.

If you make the decision to get rid of her call up pound rescue they have a no kill policy and will find her an appropriate foster and subsequent home that will cater to her needs and hopefully remedy the problem (if in fact there is one). Also at the moment pound rescue is overrun with dogs so she will get lots of socializing time.

But really my best advice for you is to let things cool down and don't make any decisions right now. I really dont see any need for you to get rid of your friend just some things probably need to be worked on