Laws for Muffler

[civic_ek4]

I don't know if the police in Calgary or anywhere else in Alberta is being as anal as where I live(Lethbridge). Many people have been receiving these types of tickets in Lethbridge. There is no actual dB scale regulating this charge. The officer doesn't need a dB meter to give out these ticket either, it's all up to their discretion.

Mufflers 61(1) A motor vehicle propelled by an internal combustion engine must have an exhaust muffler that is cooling and expelling the exhaust gases from the engine without excessive noise and without producing flames or sparks.

(2) A person shall not drive or operate a motor vehicle propelled by an internal combustion engine if the exhaust outlet of the muffler has been widened.

(3) A person shall not drive or operate a motor vehicle propelled by an internal combustion engine if a device is attached to the exhaust system or the muffler that increases the noise made by the expulsion of gases from the engine or allows a flame to be ignited from the exhaust system.

(4) This section applies to a power bicycle that is propelled by an
internal combustion engine.

[civic_ek4]

So, has anyone received any of these tickets??
AND
How would you fight something like that??

[benyl]

Basically what it is saying is that you can't modify the car from what it comes with from the factory.

[CRX-R]

:repost: There was a long discussion on this a while back, just do a search.. but it all depends on the cop. I've got a buddy with a 3" APEXi (i think) exhaust on a Talon that rumbles for miles.. But it's not loud and annoying like most and he rarely gets hastled even when pulled over for speeding. but I know guys with 2" on a civic with no cats or resonators, loud as hell and getting hassled all the time. It's hardly a stedfast rule either way.. but no matter what you do you run the risk of being pulled over just for that.

[Bruce Chan]

i got ticket for muffler before. one day afternoon, the ploice said cause my car muffler is noise, and he gave me ticket. and i dont know what is going on about that....i always chat with the police every end of the month , no one said my car muffler is noise before. and he just watched my muffler...and told me to start the engine my car and push the gas.
in my view, if any car push the gas , the muffler will have bigger sound even though the police's car. in fact, my car is noise when you push the gas to the higher range 6000rmp . but usually i drive pretty slow everyday , you can hear nothing of the muffler...
and he teach me how to fight for the ticket, he said,' when you go to court, tell the court about you feel the muffler is not noise.' then you will be fine, that is all about my experiences.
therefore, i buy an other normal car because i dont want to have tickets anymore! and that car i keep it for the track.

[R-Audi]

In Lethbridge?
Thankfully my car isn't very loud, but the tips atre enlarged I suppose....

[civic_ek4]

I understand the charge(s) fully but if there is no regulation or a standard dB reading like in BC. THe officer could just give you the ticket whenever he wants.

I got one of those ticket just this past christmas but the officer wrote the year as 2004, it was thrown out before court. A few weeks after this ticket. I went through a check stop and a seatbelt check stop, none of the officer said anything to me regurading about my exhaust.

All I am trying to say is in order to enforce such charge have a guideline, a limit, a dB meter. (like no motor vehicle should exceed 93dB)

[Whitie_Bear]

I RECEIVED A TICKET LAST NIGHT FOR THE FOLLOWING LAW

(2) A person shall not drive or operate a motor vehicle propelled by an internal combustion engine if the exhaust outlet of the muffler has been widened.


im running a magnaflow street series muffler a 14829
http://www.hottexhaust.com/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=14829

Ill be fighting this ticket. I challenged the officer and he took about 20 mins to look up what law i broke ( i saw him searching with a flashlight in the car) but as the statement says (very vague)

the exhaust outlet has to be widened, i never widened my exhaust i put on a legal aftermarket brand a STREET SERIES for crying out loud, and the inlet for the muffler is 2.25" and i have STOCK 2.25" piping so therefore it hasnt been widened only the tip is big


and that is totally unfair because basically what the law is stating is that anything not oem is illegal, what if my part is discontinued? whats to stop a cop from just pulling someone over and giving them a ticket just because they feel like it

i know its just for money because they pulled me over at the top of 16th (coming off of deerfoot going west) and i wasnt speeding

there is no way im going to pay the 115$ ticket theres just no way. If canadian tire sells it it has to be street legal, why are there muffler shops all aftermarket mufflers should be illegal this is totally a$$inine and just a loop hole for the cops so they can give you a ticket if they want to

man im cheezed off :whipped:

[QuasarCav]

^^^

I hope you dont adopt that atitude throughout life. Because they sell it at crappy tire then it must be legal??? WTF, they sell 6 inch big tips. They are not legal.

You are admitting that your exhaust tip is larger than stock and you even quote the law that you broke. What will you be fighting?

[Whitie_Bear]

call cambodian tire and ask them. They wont partake in selling anything not street legal. Thats why you cant get blue led replacement bulbs there

secondly a exhaust TIP is not the exhaust outlet, where the tip attaches to the muffler is defined as a outlet

the cop doesnt know his shiat, and dont answer me like that


i will be fighting that i never enlarged my exhaust outlet, which i never have done

your telling me the big stock 5" tips on diesel trucks are illegal now

basically if my cars piping is 2.25" and the muflers piping is 2.25" with a big tip there is no change.

If i get charged for having a large tip, then i should be charged for having a large muffler body, then i should be charged for having a large diameter cat ? its all relative to the exhaust OUTLET

NOT THE TIP, THERE ISNT ONE WORD IN THAT SENTENCE ABOUT TIP, TIP IS NOT OUTLET

[skidmark]

Just because Canadian Tire, or any other business for that matter, sells it, it does not mean that it is street legal.

CT sells headlight and taillight covers, window tinting film, blue bulbs and other items that are illegal on our highways.

Ultimately, it is up to you to make sure it is legal before you do it/use it.

[Whitie_Bear]

YES BUT THEY STATE THIS MAY NOT BE USED FOR ON ROAD PURPOSES

there is no warning for the mufflers

[QuasarCav]

Originally posted by Whitie_Bear
YES BUT THEY STATE THIS MAY NOT BE USED FOR ON ROAD PURPOSES

there is no warning for the mufflers


That is left up to you to decide if they are illegal or not.

Like skidmark (a police officer) stated, crappy tire sells tint. You could easily tint your front windows which is illegal but you are buying a legal product.

[Whitie_Bear]

ok i can see some of what you guys are saying, but can you not see where im coming from

my muffler dies ie rusts out, and now that theyve discontinued making parts for my car (ford actually has discontinued it) whos to say i cant put on a different muffler then stock?
do i have to sell the car now because its no longer legal without a ford muffler?

bottom line is, the muffler hasent been widened, it could be a 20" tip on the thing it still doesnt affect the muffler outlet which is legal specs to my car

i thought a law which was enforced would be regulated by a number or a limit, a law cant be a officers will then the laws change with each mindset you get


bottom line is i know its a BS ticket, and the cop knew it was a bs ticket, the only reason i got pulled over was because i was lowered, had my rims on, and the back windows were limo tinted out

bottom line is this is discrimination because of the car i drive and the way it looks. Whos to say that the factory didnt purposely make the stock muffler smaller so that the car wouldnt run as good as it could. Ideal pipe diameter for the car is between 2.25" and 2.5" thats where you receive the best results.

[QuasarCav]

I dont think you are getting it.

You are driving a car that probably gets more attention then the usual cavalier, taurus, minivan. That was your choice. You did not need to put rims or lower the car. Now you have to be careful how you drive because the police are going to pay more attention.

The exhaust outlet in the eyes of the law is the piece that you can see at the end of the car. You might call it a "tip" but it's really an exhaust outlet.

The law states that you cannot exceed the OEM width or else you will get a ticket. You have exceeded that limit so you are getting a ticket. The police do not care if 2.5 gives you better flow, that is a ridiculous argument.

Now to your scenario: Any competent exhaust shop can give you any muffler, tip, exhaust that you want. You are no SOL if ford stop making the part because you can still get it made.

Pay the ticket and if you dont like getting them then drive a stock car.

Pay to Play.

[likwid]

Canadian Tire sells those neon license plate frames and those are illegal ($50 ticket).. Anyways I got a warning in Lethbridge from a cop for saying my exhaust was too loud.. He said I would have to replace this muffler with my stock one or he would give me a big ticket next time he saw my car.. I never did, and never got pulled over again after that..

[Whitie_Bear]

ITS NOT FOR SOUND IT WAS FOR SIZE

and first off not all licence plate lights are illegal

a red light is LEGAL, and a WHITE is legal

i can quote the law for you if you wish but i read it myself that the licence plate illumination light is to be white

and there cant be any lights on the rear of a vehicle that arent red or amber


anyways i have told you again and again i have not exceeded the diameter 2.25" to 2.25" isnt enlarging. It is not the tip size, a manufacturers specs of exhaust outlet are measured from the outlet hole (outlet of the muffler) not the tip diameter, thats why they give you the outlet diameter and tip diameter, besides its a double walled tip and the inside of my tip is still the legal size the outside of it is 4"

i dont care what you say tip diameter is not the same as outlet diameter end of story

[Whitie_Bear]

everything ive done to my car is my own preference of how a car looks, nothing ive done to the look of it has made the car illegal so it is no more illegal then a stock vehicle

i know it draws attention which is why i wasent speeding



damn rookies :thumbsdow

[QuasarCav]

i dont care what you say tip diameter is not the same as outlet diameter end of story

Then why did you get a ticket?

Get a clue man, no one here is going to give you any sympathy because 99.9% of the time you were wrong not the police officer.

Now take you 4 inch TIP off your car and wait and see what happens. I'll tell you again, a tip is an exhaust outlet in the eyes of the law. That is what matters in this case, not what you think.

[Whitie_Bear]

Then why did you get a ticket?

because the officer is wrong, it can happen you know they are human

did he break out the measuring tape no, he just looked at it


when i fight this and when i get aquitted ill be sure to post here letting you know, ill update this post on when my hearing is just so we can all know

and then i will say again, its not tip diameter

ive talked to five muffler shops they all say this is absurd, that the tip diameter doesnt matter a exhaust tip is purely cosmetic, if i had a stock muffler and i put a 5" tip on it i do not get any gains out of it its just styling plain and simple

it does not say i cant add a tip, and by adding a tip im not enlarging the pipe the pipe is still the same damn size

im not looking for sympathy im looking for someone else who has this problem and what methods they took to fight it and dont you worry i know dead sure that i wont have to pay

plus the girlfriends parents own a registry and she works there with them, and even there best friend (a cop high up in the calgary police) says this ticket was just harassment and it will be thrown out

the eyes of the law are blind havent we learned this yet. I commited a crime yea right , and major boxing events arent really rigged.


I have no problem paying for a ticket that im guilty of, i have paid my blue light tickets, i have paid my licence plate light tickets, even blown fuse (no rear parking lights, brake lights still light up) ticket, but i will not pay this ticket because i have done nothing wrong

[Whitie_Bear]

i can tell were never going to agree, and im never going to get my work done so lets leave the posts alone and ill update when i have new info to share

[QuasarCav]

Originally posted by Whitie_Bear
i can tell were never going to agree, and im never going to get my work done so lets leave the posts alone and ill update when i have new info to share


I agree;)

[Whitie_Bear]

HAHAH FINALLY

:D


you wouldnt happen to be a x cop would you, your very enthusiastic for the other side

[GTS Jeff]

Originally posted by Whitie_Bear
YES BUT THEY STATE THIS MAY NOT BE USED FOR ON ROAD PURPOSES

there is no warning for the mufflers


Haha it sounds like you're the kind of person that would eat a grocery bag if there weren't warnings on it.

Anyway, arguing that an outlet is not a tip is a fair argument, though a weak one at that. How are you going to prove that the lawmakers were referring to the outlet of the exhaust and not the observed outlet (which is the tip)?

[Whitie_Bear]

because it says exhaust outlet, theres no mentioning of a exhaust tip, and like ive said over and over exhaust outlet refers to the actual exhaust outlet no the exhaust tip

when someone wants to put a tip on there car, what does the shop say to them. Whats your exhaust outlet, then they can put on the specified tip

and what if my factory exhaust had two tips of 1.5" diameter ??? does that mean i can legally have a 3" diameter tip??? the flow area is the same, but the size is different, how do we know its not referring to overal area or volume of the muffler?

anyways i know what i need to do and im going to do it and get off because its simply a bull shit ticket you cant deny that


and no i wouldnt eat a grocery bag, hold up i think i would then i would sue the bastards because there was no warning if that bag who spilled coffee on herself can get a million because there was no HOT COFFEE warning then i think i could do the same

[DannyO]

I was just wondering, what is the price for a muffler ticket?, can it change or is it a set price?

[Phy]

So the illegality of wider exhaust outlets is based on the car, not the muffler?

(Meaning, if one swaps out their stock muffler for one with a naturally larger outlet, the outlet has technically not been widened, but it is wider than the car originally had, and therefore would be considered illegal?)

[Whitie_Bear]

115$ for my ticket


yes basically its saying anything with a larger output then your stock muffler is illegal, so a 5" oem diesel would be fine with a 5" muffler

but the civics with there small 1" and something, can only go as large as 1" and something which is gay because they dont make such a thing (that would be considered aftermarket)

its bull shit you wont/shouldnt get pulled over for it and if you do fight it

[BlueGoblin]

Just out of curiosity - have you done any research to see how the courts have interpreted the muffler law?

I get the sense that you just disagree with a law that says you can't put the muffler of your choice on your car. you may well disagree with it, but how does that make the enforcement of that law wrong, other than you wish that it wouldn't get enforced?

"This is a bulllshit ticket" will not get you far in court.

[Ben]

Originally posted by BlueGoblin
Just out of curiosity - have you done any research to see how the courts have interpreted the muffler law?

I get the sense that you just disagree with a law that says you can't put the muffler of your choice on your car. you may well disagree with it, but how does that make the enforcement of that law wrong, other than you wish that it wouldn't get enforced?

"This is a bulllshit ticket" will not get you far in court.


Thats because most people on this forum have no formal, or informal education for that matter in regards to law, courts, and how things work in general as far as modifying cars and the highway traffic act. Ignorance is not bliss for you people, I'll tell you that much, every time I see "THIS TICKET IS BS, THE COP SHOULD HAVE BETTER THINGS TO DO" threads and posts, I just laugh and feel sorry for their parents putting out such ignorant and uneducated children.

[Toms-SC]

Hehe, I hope after you wasted all your time typing defence replys you get rapped in court and end up having to spend the money on the ticket.

[Whitie_Bear]

pardon me?

who do you think you are mr big. OH yes im some undeducated child

i bet i have more education then you do so lets just cram it


and yes i did look into the laws, and how the courts view it. Do you know how many people get tickets like me? if you do let me know because id like to talk with them.

Ive called numerous muffler shops asking about the legitity of the muffler, and every shop has told me the same thing, theres no way this muffler is illegal. I then proceeded to contact magnaflow and retrieve muffler specs for my day in court. I have also contacted lawers and points to ask them questions on the matter, and they both have also agreed that i was getting harrassed and if i fight this, 90% chance that the ticket will be thrown out.

I have also contacted the crown prosecutor for court room 109, and requested disclosure on my file so i can see whats gathered against me.


also whats there to research? Ive read the whole damn traffic act where else should i research? every province has different laws so im supposed to search the entire internet for muffler laws in alberta well guess how many good results i get try searching for info. thats what brought me to this forum actually i found it while searching

dont just assume something then make a statement towards me as a person with out knowing the facts. Then you two are just as ignorant and as stupid as the people you try to burn





Thats because most people on this forum have no formal, or informal education for that matter in regards to law, courts, and how things work in general as far as modifying cars and the highway traffic act.

who in there right mind would think that a aftermarket muffler WELL ANY AFTERMARKET MUFFLER is illegal on ones car. Why in the hell is there muffler shops if all the other mufflers are illegal? your telling me that everyone should know the traffic laws through and through when thinking about putting on a muffler?

sure you hear lots of, "this ticket is bs" talk, but what about the times when the ticket is just bs?

your saying that some tickets arent bs? your saying that cops are never wrong. Well open your eyes my friend, go talk with the people before assuming such assinine ideas, there are many people who have been treated wrongly by the police, and no one beleived them until they proved it true in courts. Have alittle chat with Don King im sure he'll fill you in on how the cops are always right :)


anyways im done arguing you guys are no help at all so i dont even see why im posting, i just thought someone who had gone through the same thing could give me advice, but instead i get everyones views about the damn subject and they have never even had such a experience. Dont talk about what you dont know. When i get acquitted im posting the ticket and i expect some apologies, and if for some insane reason i dont win then i will admit i was wrong

[Whitie_Bear]

Hehe, I hope after you wasted all your time typing defence replys you get rapped in court and end up having to spend the money on the ticket.

had you actually read the thread you might have been able to pick up that i got the ticket two days ago, and first of all, one must pleed not guilty, then a court date is set, then 2 - 3 months later you get to fight it

[BlueGoblin]

Originally posted by Whitie_Bear
also whats there to research? Ive read the whole damn traffic act where else should i research? every province has different laws so im supposed to search the entire internet for muffler laws in alberta well guess how many good results i get try searching for info...
dont just assume something then make a statement towards me as a person with out knowing the facts. Then you two are just as ignorant and as stupid as the people you try to burn

There is a law library down at the court of Queen's Bench that you can use to search judgements. You may wish to do that.

How did I try to burn you? I simply asked some questions and offered a small piece of advice. It sounds like you have done more in your own defence than most people who complain about tickets.


Originally posted by Whitie_Bear
your saying that some tickets arent bs? your saying that cops are never wrong. Well open your eyes my friend, go talk with the people before assuming such assinine ideas, there are many people who have been treated wrongly by the police, and no one beleived them until they proved it true in courts. Have alittle chat with Don King im sure he'll fill you in on how the cops are always right :)

Ah yes, Don King. Good point - on top of being a boxing manager and promoter extraordinaire, its so rarely known how he is constantly vexed by harrassing tickets for the muffler on his car...all because of that manslaughter charge in the 50's....

I don't think that anybody is saying that the police don't make mistakes - far from it; they probably make the same level of errors that most people do, only if a plumber pushes a stuck turd the wrong way down a pipe, web forums don't fill up with complaints over it. That's one of the reasons that we have courts to examine the charges after they are laid...


Originally posted by Whitie_Bear
anyways im done arguing you guys are no help at all so i dont even see why im posting, i just thought someone who had gone through the same thing could give me advice, but instead i get everyones views about the damn subject and they have never even had such a experience. Dont talk about what you dont know. When i get acquitted im posting the ticket and i expect some apologies, and if for some insane reason i dont win then i will admit i was wrong

Incidentally, you do not know what experiences others here have had with traffic court. If you were a little less petulant you might find that sme of them might have knowledge that you might not expect....

[Weapon_R]

Originally posted by BlueGoblin
Just out of curiosity - have you done any research to see how the courts have interpreted the muffler law?



I still do not see how this matters. If you are referring to precedent, it doesn't apply horizontally.

[BlueGoblin]

^quite right, but it still may have non-binding influence over the trial judge.

I was specifically referring to the results of Summary Conviction Appeals, which would have binding effects upon the lower court. I should have been a bit more specific.

[Whitie_Bear]

my bad blue goblin, i didnt mean to go after you but im just annoyed with people posting calling me the idiot and dumbass and its my fault yada yada yada, when they dont know the full story and they dont know the circumstances

i would go down to the library, but work keeps me to damn busy


and dont get me wrong ill always complain about a ticket, i mean its a ticket im not going to like it, but what people dont know about me is when i do something wrong im man enough to own up and pay for it, youd be surprised how many of these little tickets ive got, for blue lights, for licence plate, for lights on the hood, for tail lights out (that one i wasnt happy with it was a blown fuse) and the many speeding tickets, but i will pay up when i know im wrong, and i just dont feel wrong about this one.

i have learned the hard way, and have learned the way of the courts, and if theres one thing i know, its when im getting a legitimate ticket, or when the cop pulls me over cant get me for speeding so looks high and low for anything he can ticket me for. Thats when i get the harassment ticket INJUSTICE I TELL YOU

i mean come on im just out with my girlfriend trying to get a damn marshmellow and oreo milkshake from peters, im not doing anything wrong, im not speeding, i just finished fixing my speedometer and when i pull over into the esso to get money for peters and the cop puts his spot light on my car and lets the lights run for 20 minutes while he searches the traffic act to find a law i broke (because i contradicted him and he went back to the car to find out) he makes me feel like some fucking criminal, FOR A GOD DAMN LARGE MUFFLER, and right before he pulled me over he had pulled over another car

just let me be im not hurting anyone, im sorry the size of my muffler looks illegal but its not


i commend police for some of the work they do, and 70% of the ones ive had give me tickets or warnings are awesome, but the other 30% just bring out the hate in me and those are the ones i call DICKS

[Toms-SC]

:rolleyes:

[Whitie_Bear]

FINALLY THE COURT DATE HAS COME AND GONE REGARDING MY MUFFLER TICKET


to all those people who said i was a idiot, or that im stupid and the cops were right, please bow down and kiss my nuts because i just got the ticket dismissed




first off i went to court, the cop showed up (who can ignore the overtime they get paid for showing up) then he confronted me saying that i could plead guilty and pay 57 $ instead of 115$

that wasnt good enough for me so i rejected it and proceeded. My court case (on the ticket) said 2:00, so at 2:30 i rejected the 57$ then waited till 2:50 when finally my court case started. After the officer testified, i testified showed my evidence etc. the Judge decided to dismiss the ticket at 3:30

so to all that doubted me

HAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHA SHUT THE FU(K UP BECAUSE I WAS RIGHT AND THE "LAW" WAS WRONG

I FOUGHT THE LAW BUT I WON


oh and on a side note, i commend 70% of the cops out there but there are some real dicks that make the good cops look bad

[Whitie_Bear]

man, i told you so's feel SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO GOOOD, and having the officer there while i got the ticket thrown out was also SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO GOOOOD


I have proven that the cops can sometimes be wrong, and that they write BS tickets (in this incident) no one can take that away, and i feel sooo damn good right now even tho i wasted 2 hours of chargable work time

[GTS Jeff]

How did you win the case?

[Toma]

Whitie_Bear... CONGRATS!!

Good on ya for not taking the "guilty plea bargain"!

[Aleks]

I had an englarged muffler outlet on my car to 2.5" and never got pulled over since it "looked" stock.

My friend did get one for his 5" tip and he went to CP told him he'd replace it and the cp threw it out. No need to go to court for it LOL.

[Champ]

Great job winning that ticket man. Please tell us what the judge asked you or what you said to win the case. Was it the fact that the muffler outlet was 2.25 and your tip was 2.25?

Again, I'm glad you won and I'm glad you feel good cause these guys were trashin u and you were right :)

[soupey]

sooo does this mean as long as the outlet from the muffler housing is the oem (or smaller) size, that its not illegal?, sooo if u add a huuuge rice TIP to the muffler's outlet...its legit?....

i kno on my camry the outlets are really small but there are oem tips that have been slapped onto it to make them look bigger...so im assuming that the tips can be whatever size u want, just as long as the outlet the tip is attached to remains oem size...am i correct or does tip size screw u over too?

[nonsane]

i find it funny that i had a car for about 2 years, with the exhaust broken and put together with those metal sleeves from canadian tire. (and of course it leaked, and was very loud) and i bought the car with a tip that was at least 6 inches, and was never pulled over.

I did however get pulled over when i had an MR2 with no muffler. 150$ ticket.