911 or Evo or S4 (year round)

[Khyron]

http://img2.netcarshow.com/Porsche-911_Carrera_4_2007_1024x768_wallpaper_05.jpg

2005-2007 base 911, manual. Set of studded winters.

http://i700.photobucket.com/albums/ww5/ice1874193/evox.jpg

2008-2010 Evo MR, with stage2 tune and a couple grand of boltons.

http://img2.netcarshow.com/Audi-S4_2009_1024x768_wallpaper_0d.jpg

2010 Audi S4, with DSG and sport diff.

Car must be year round. Have a Santa Fe for towing/hauling crap. 2 little kids under 4.

Might do a couple track days or some autoX, but not a serious racer at all.

Drive to work will be short - maybe 10-20 mins.

I've driven none of these cars. I like tight steering, and being tossable.

Which would you pick for Calgary year round driving?

[Scat E46]

Out of your selection

S4.

Friend of mine has one, with the Dual Clutch. It is so quick.

Quality interior, as compared to the Mitsu.

You could always take the kids, four doors.

4 wheels for winter.

[Troll-ol]

The Evo ! Looks good, handles great. Can easily toss the kids in the baby seat, etc.

[M.alex]

I would opt for something that's a convertible. I'm 11111110% happy that my daily (summer/winter) driver is a 'vert.

[That.Guy.S30]

911 all day, everyday.

[Euro_Trash]

996 C4S

[heavyD]

I'm an EVO guy but I would have a hard time recommending it over the S4 unless performance is your number one goal. If tight steering and tossability is most important the EVO wins hands down over the S4 (especially with a tune and $2k in bolt-ons) but the S4 will be more liveable when you aren't in the mood. EVO also probably more solid and reliable of a car over an Audi but the interior is low rent with the exception of the best seats in the business and the Audi destroys the EVO in refinement. Tough call but I suggest you try before you buy.

As for the 911 I just don't think it's practicle in the winter and upkeep will be very expensive.

[chkolny541]

^^100 % the 911 should be out completely.

Between the other 2, i would say evo

[Zewind]

As for the 911 I just don't think it's practicle in the winter and upkeep will be very expensive.

I agree with that, personally I like the S4:thumbsup:

[Sorath]

i really really really like evo's but its just not worth the money for what you get. s4 is a great car, i was on the fence on one awhile ago

[962 kid]

Originally posted by chkolny541
^^100 % the 911 should be out completely.

Between the other 2, i would say evo

911s are fantastic winter cars. I've never driven an evo X in the snow but on dry pavement, the 911 is miles ahead of both other cars.

[dirtsniffer]

i remember when the 997 turbo first came out, car & driver had a long term tester and they loved it during the michigan winter :bigpimp:

[nismodrifter]

996 Turbo brah

[R-Audi]

I would do the S4 in a heartbeat...
-Full warranty
-Refined
-Still sporty
-Mods are starting to come out and providing excellent results (Exhaust, tune, pulley, intake)


Pros/Cons of others:

Evo:
-Quick
-Moddable
-Possible Warranty
-Not refined
-Econo interior

Porsche 996
-Exterior is sexy
-Decent interior (996 is dated)
-Maintenance!!
-No Warranty
-Slowest of the group
-RWD
-Better if C4S or Turbo for year round

[atgilchrist]

If he's looking at an 05-07 911, then it'll be a 997, with a much improved interior. My vote is 911, especially if you can swing a stripper c4 - all wheel drive and rear weight bias creates great winter car that the best of all in summer!

[Khyron]

Originally posted by heavyD
I'm an EVO guy but I would have a hard time recommending it over the S4 unless performance is your number one goal. If tight steering and tossability is most important the EVO wins hands down over the S4 (especially with a tune and $2k in bolt-ons) but the S4 will be more liveable when you aren't in the mood. EVO also probably more solid and reliable of a car over an Audi but the interior is low rent with the exception of the best seats in the business and the Audi destroys the EVO in refinement. Tough call but I suggest you try before you buy.

As for the 911 I just don't think it's practicle in the winter and upkeep will be very expensive.

It was your evo for sale that brought me around to the idea. Aside from fuel econ, did the day to day life with the car bug you? I know about the crappy space in the trunk but I'm ok with that. My Jetta trunk is empty 99% of the time. I've read that the only scary thing with the MR is the dual-clutch trans (which I want) - it's 8K for a new unit if it dies out of warranty. Nice replacement choice with the '12 GT.

I can get a 997 911 manual from the States for about 50k after all the import crap and tax. A used 2008 Evo is 35ish. New S4 is 60k. 996 turbos are still pretty expensive unless you really find a beat one. AWD 911 just seems so ...odd to me. Driving at 80% can you tell the difference between the 2 and 4?

If I needed a full all around primary family car the s4 would win immediately. But it's also the most expensive, so mods would be virtually nil. It's also the biggest car - bigger than an accord. But everyone says it FEELS light and responsive on the track, aside from slightly numb steering.

911 is more a "I always wanted one" and it's easier to make work when kids are little. Once the kids are big, the backseat becomes a problem. I would expect the porsche to have the same maint/repair costs as the Audi?

I did have a chance to drive a Panamera 4S and while it's tight and fast it just feels too big which is how I think I'd find the S4.

[boarderfatty]

I drive my 996 C4S year round, in winter with a set of performance winter tires. by far the best traction and control out of any car I have winter driven, the balance of the car, the AWD systems etc but it is great, I have owned and STI, A4, a bunch of 4wd trucks and would take this any day. that said I am single. back seat is pretty useless, you can fit 1 full sized person back there uncomfortably, and the trunk on AWD models isn't even big enough to fit my ski boots. U just keep an emergency kit in there with tow rope because pulling vehicles outta the ditch with it is pretty entertaining.

I drove a B7 S4 has nice has decent power. but I felt it to handle slightly sloppy and be kinda mushy. def going to be the most comfortable of them all, but coming from and STI (which I don't consider to handle very well without a lot of suspension mods) I was very dissapointed in the S4 and started looking back at BMW and Porsche.

I haven't driven the evo but an guessing same Idea as my STI. I think it would be the best compromise of practicality versus performance. But you do lose out in the looks and comfort department.

[Skyline_Addict]

Put a "T" after the 911, and that's what I'd say.

[max_boost]

Porsche. :werd:

Practicality is not important given you already have a Santa Fe. One of the guys on the luxury cruise had a Red C2 I think, so nice. :drool:

[heavyD]

Originally posted by Khyron


It was your evo for sale that brought me around to the idea. Aside from fuel econ, did the day to day life with the car bug you? I know about the crappy space in the trunk but I'm ok with that. My Jetta trunk is empty 99% of the time. I've read that the only scary thing with the MR is the dual-clutch trans (which I want) - it's 8K for a new unit if it dies out of warranty. Nice replacement choice with the '12 GT.


Fuel economy isn't good but the good news is that it doesn't worsen with tunes such as Cobb Stg. 2. I'm finding out with my Mustang though that fuel economy can be worse lol.

I loved it as a daily driver and while the Mustang is a very good track car it doesn't have the agility and quick steering of the EVO where I could just point and shoot in and out of traffic lanes. The chassis is ultra stiff and it can be unforgiving on rough pavement but if you are used to running aftermarket springs and shocks it's no big deal.

I love the TC-SST and it's probably the thing I miss the most after the handling. I never had problems with mine which was a first year car and a really don't know of too many failures on stock or moderately tuned cars.

You really need to test drive an S4 and EVO so you can compare them and find wich car better suits your tastes as they are kind of apples to oranges cars.

[bspot]

Originally posted by boarderfatty

I drove a B7 S4 has nice has decent power. but I felt it to handle slightly sloppy and be kinda mushy. def going to be the most comfortable of them all, but coming from and STI (which I don't consider to handle very well without a lot of suspension mods) I was very dissapointed in the S4 and started looking back at BMW and Porsche.

Handling of the B8 S4 is night and day with a B7 S4. Totally new AWD system and much lighter.

I agree with what you said about the handling of the B6/B7. Coming from a Cobalt SS, I was pretty disappointed with the cornering feel. Hence dumping the stock suspension on my B6 for KW V3's immediately. Along with a new rear sway, It transformed the car. Still 90% as comfortable as stock.

[slinkie]

911, would never buy a mitsu or audi, I find rwd fine in winter but IDK about rear engine


Originally posted by Khyron

I would expect the porsche to have the same maint/repair costs as the Audi?


On those jd power charts from google images, I think porsche is usally at the top of the list or in the top five , way way higher than audi

[m10-power]

I've driven them all and I'd buy the 997, only issue is in the winter when the snow gets hard and rutted its not a pleasant ride. The abs/psm/traction control is amazing with these cars, very much aimed for a performance driver.

I'd also wager its the cheaper of the three to maintain, insurance will be higher though.

[soloracer]

Originally posted by heavyD
I'm an EVO guy but I would have a hard time recommending it over the S4 unless performance is your number one goal. If tight steering and tossability is most important the EVO wins hands down over the S4 (especially with a tune and $2k in bolt-ons) but the S4 will be more liveable when you aren't in the mood. EVO also probably more solid and reliable of a car over an Audi but the interior is low rent with the exception of the best seats in the business and the Audi destroys the EVO in refinement. Tough call but I suggest you try before you buy.

As for the 911 I just don't think it's practicle in the winter and upkeep will be very expensive.

Bullshit. Do you even own a 911? Have you ever driven one in the winter? My 996 TT has been a great car and last winter gave me ZERO problems. For the same price if not less, I would recommend a 996 Turbo for a daily/winter driver.

[boarderfatty]

Maint is fairly easy from what I have done so far on my car. have done pads, rotors, LCA's (easier than a civic), springs, exhaust, and spark plugs all on my own with basic hand tools. Never had it in the shop for anything more than an oil change which was $200, but is good for 15000km.

If you are mechanically inclined this car will be no problem for you, if not, it's still not bad, I found my STI at the stealership cost more than my porsche ever has over the same time period for a newer car.

[rage2]

Originally posted by soloracer
Bullshit. Do you even own a 911? Have you ever driven one in the winter? My 996 TT has been a great car and last winter gave me ZERO problems. For the same price if not less, I would recommend a 996 Turbo for a daily/winter driver.
I'm looking for one too. Everyone's been telling me that the 996TT is the ultimate winter car.

[heavyD]

Originally posted by soloracer


Bullshit. Do you even own a 911? Have you ever driven one in the winter? My 996 TT has been a great car and last winter gave me ZERO problems. For the same price if not less, I would recommend a 996 Turbo for a daily/winter driver.

No I haven't and no need to be an asshole about it. Are you trying to say it would be better in winter than an AWD S4 or EVO because that would be bullshit. I've driven a 1993 MR2 turbo (probably one of the worst cars you can drive in the winter) in two winters and that car didn't have any traction control and needless to say I had no issues but I'm a good driver and wouldn't recommend the average driver do that judging by all the accidents I see in the winter in this city.

[you&me]

Originally posted by m10-power
I've driven them all and I'd buy the 997, only issue is in the winter when the snow gets hard and rutted its not a pleasant ride. The abs/psm/traction control is amazing with these cars, very much aimed for a performance driver.

I'd also wager its the cheaper of the three to maintain, insurance will be higher though.



Originally posted by soloracer


Bullshit. Do you even own a 911? Have you ever driven one in the winter? My 996 TT has been a great car and last winter gave me ZERO problems. For the same price if not less, I would recommend a 996 Turbo for a daily/winter driver.



Originally posted by boarderfatty
Maint is fairly easy from what I have done so far on my car. have done pads, rotors, LCA's (easier than a civic), springs, exhaust, and spark plugs all on my own with basic hand tools. Never had it in the shop for anything more than an oil change which was $200, but is good for 15000km.

If you are mechanically inclined this car will be no problem for you, if not, it's still not bad, I found my STI at the stealership cost more than my porsche ever has over the same time period for a newer car.

+1
+1
+1

Anyone that's saying either the 911 isn't a fine winter car, or saying it will be too expensive to maintain doesn't have any actual experience with one.

I've winter driven a 996 C4S, 996TT, 997 C2S and 997 Turbo... Not a single problem using any of them, in any condition.

To the OP - no need to necessarily aim for a base C2 out fo the US at the $50k price point... You should be able to find a nicely equipped C2S with reasonable mileage on this side of the border in that range. PM me if you want me to point you in the right direction...

[C4S]

996 or 997 (RWD) are awesome on snow, and cold weather (even -40c or lower) we are talking 60% weight on the driving wheels!!

Just the suspension may be a bit too hard when below -30 .. and the car sit a bit too low for deep snow .. :nut:

Storage would be the biggest downside of a 911 .. (still better then Ferrari and Lambo ... ) but I guess it would be your main car, if you are looking for a third car for year round driving, 911 is a great choice ..

Service cost will be higher then average, however, both S4/EVO are not much lower ...

When I had my STi back to 2003 .. I was shocked that service was MORE EXPENSIVE then M3 and 911 .. I assume EVO would be similar? :dunno:

[Skyline_Addict]

dammit. I should've thought of getting a porsche 911 as a daily driver, earlier.

[bituerbo]

If you're going to be living with it every day - go with the Audi. Nicest 'livable' interior, and still quite sporting.

[heavyD]

Originally posted by Skyline_Addict
dammit. I should've thought of getting a porsche 911 as a daily driver, earlier.

Who knew it was the perfect winter car?:nut:

[heavyD]

Originally posted by C4S
I assume EVO would be similar? :dunno:

As long as it's under warranty it's not a big deal. Brakes won't be cheap and oil changes at the dealership is pricey because they overcharge for Mobil 1 (synthetic required). Fluid changes on the TC-SST are expensive but that only needs to be done every 50K. Other than that it's just like any Japanese car.

[483hp]

I was skeptical about a 997TT for the winter. I bought one anyway last year and put Pirelli Sottozeros on it. It didn't let me down a single day last winter. Incredible traction and no issues with reliability or snowplowing.

[JRSC00LUDE]

Originally posted by you&me
.....saying it will be too expensive to maintain doesn't have any actual experience with one.


996 C4S is a great winter car but, absolutely can be expensive to maintain. My friend has an 06 and she would strongly disagree and it's only got 50K on it. Just misc. electrical gremlins and now ABS gremlins....little things that add up REAL fast. She's had to dump so much into nickel and diming it (which means 1200 here, 2000 there) that if another thing goes wrong with it she's dumping it.

GREAT car to drive in ANY condition but, maintenance pit.....at least hers is.

[heavyD]

Originally posted by JRSC00LUDE



996 C4S is a great winter car but, absolutely can be expensive to maintain. My friend has an 06 and she would strongly disagree and it's only got 50K on it. Just misc. electrical gremlins and now ABS gremlins....little things that add up REAL fast. She's had to dump so much into nickel and diming it (which means 1200 here, 2000 there) that if another thing goes wrong with it she's dumping it.

GREAT car to drive in ANY condition but, maintenance pit.....at least hers is.

But, but it's cheap to maintain. I heard it at beyond from people with experience.;)

[slinkie]

Originally posted by 483hp
I was skeptical about a 997TT for the winter. I bought one anyway last year and put Pirelli Sottozeros on it. It didn't let me down a single day last winter. Incredible traction and no issues with reliability or snowplowing.

Never driven a 997tt, but +1 for the sottozeros :D Drove for only one season and sold to a beyonder

[m10-power]

Originally posted by JRSC00LUDE



996 C4S is a great winter car but, absolutely can be expensive to maintain. My friend has an 06 and she would strongly disagree and it's only got 50K on it. Just misc. electrical gremlins and now ABS gremlins....little things that add up REAL fast. She's had to dump so much into nickel and diming it (which means 1200 here, 2000 there) that if another thing goes wrong with it she's dumping it.

GREAT car to drive in ANY condition but, maintenance pit.....at least hers is.

'06 would be 997 not 996

If I was having issue after issue I'd find a new mechanic...



Originally posted by heavyD


But, but it's cheap to maintain. I heard it at beyond from people with experience.;)

Says someone second hand vs a number of others who ACTUALLY own and maintain 996's

:facepalm:

[heavyD]

Originally posted by m10-power

Says someone second hand vs a number of others who ACTUALLY own and maintain 996's

:facepalm:

Are you saying he's not credible and you are? Look I don't doubt that if you have a problem free Porsche that it won't cost much to maintain but if you have problems its going to cost considerably more than the average car. You gotta pay to play young laddy.

This thread has been education for me. I learned today that the Porsche 911 is the ultimate winter car and is as cheap to maintain as a Civic.:facepalm:

[962 kid]

Originally posted by heavyD


Are you saying he's not credible and you are? Look I don't doubt that if you have a problem free Porsche that it won't cost much to maintain but if you have problems its going to cost considerably more than the average car. You gotta pay to play young laddy.

This thread has been education for me. I learned today that the Porsche 911 is the ultimate winter car and is as cheap to maintain as a Civic.:facepalm:

911 is not outrageous for maintenance, definitely not worse than the audi and probably the same ballpark as an evoX. IMO a 911 is pretty damn hard to beat as an all year round sports car. JSRCs story is definitely abnormal, the electronics on the 996 997 are usually great.

[JRSC00LUDE]

Originally posted by m10-power


'06 would be 997 not 996

If I was having issue after issue I'd find a new mechanic

I'll take your word for it, i'm not very versed on them. I love the car though. Fyi, it's been to the one good non dealerhip shop for Porsches here, the Porsche dealership here and one of them in Calgary. How many more mechanics would you recommend? Or is that enough to satisfy you?

I tend to believe 962's opinion on porsches though so it may not be the norm....

EDIT - sounds cunty but not meant that way :)

[rage2]

That's why you get a turbo and not a non turbo. Believe it or not, the turbos are much more reliable. Engine is completely different than the non turbos.

[xrayvsn]

I have a 997 turbo and a 2010 S4, both with the 6MT, not tip or DSG. The 911 is the summer vehicle, while the S4 is meant for winter driving for reasons I will elaborate on.

I need to drive my kids to school in the morning sometimes, and the rear seats in the 911 are small, but acceptable for the kids who are under 10. However, having 4 doors is much more convenient, and the rear seat room in the S4 is obviously going to be superior. Once winter comes around, I am not keen on my kids climbing into/out of the Porsche with muddy boots etc. The S4 serves the winter beater role much more readily.

Interior is a toss up between the two, but I will give the nod to the S4 over the 911, barely.

Driving dynamics is hands down better in the Porsche, but that is also a no-brainer. Substantially more power, ridiculous grip and boatloads of torque. The S4 is softer, has more body roll, and is heavier. It makes less power obviously, but it is still a fun, very tossable car. You must get the S4 with the sport diff, which improves the corner exit feel under throttle. The S4 tends to understeer, like most AWD cars. The 911 is very tail happy, especially if you are heavy with the right foot, but the PSM keeps things in check.

I like both cars very much. The Porsche has been reasonable to maintain, although it likes to go through Mobil 1 between changes. A switch to a heavier weight oil and Lubro-Moly instead of Mobil 1 has completely taken away the need for top ups.

I have only had one service with the Audi, and it did not cost me anything since the first service is free. Next one is probably a year away, so it will probably end up costing similar as the Porsche as far as maintenance. No oil consumption issues with my S4 to date.

[m10-power]

Originally posted by heavyD


Are you saying he's not credible and you are? Look I don't doubt that if you have a problem free Porsche that it won't cost much to maintain but if you have problems its going to cost considerably more than the average car. You gotta pay to play young laddy.

This thread has been education for me. I learned today that the Porsche 911 is the ultimate winter car and is as cheap to maintain as a Civic.:facepalm:

Yes sort of, since I own a 996TT and have done a fair amount of work to it. I have found it relatively inexpensive to do so. While hes relating a second hand account.

I also do see that the average persons perception that since its a Porsche that it must be expensive. Since you seem to fall into that catagory and continue to back it up and now with civic comments vs audi and a way over priced mitsubishi.

No one said it was the ultimate winter car, but i cannot think of a better all round car which is what the OP was asking about. Soloracers 996TT is capable of 700hp on pump, he drives it year round.

[soloracer]

Originally posted by heavyD


No I haven't and no need to be an asshole about it. Are you trying to say it would be better in winter than an AWD S4 or EVO because that would be bullshit. I've driven a 1993 MR2 turbo (probably one of the worst cars you can drive in the winter) in two winters and that car didn't have any traction control and needless to say I had no issues but I'm a good driver and wouldn't recommend the average driver do that judging by all the accidents I see in the winter in this city.

Based upon your knowledge, what would you say if I had come up with "The EVO isn't a practical winter car and will be expensive to maintain" after I admitted that I didn't have any experience with it? You would probably call me out on it just like I did. Say nothing and the next thing you know 911's are only good on sunny days above 30 degrees but don't take them out if it looks like rain cause you are likely to crash. I guess we should forget all the cold weather testing that Porsche does in northern Canada/Alaska/Northern Europe. Bet you were surprised by all the positive 911 responses. If people don't speak up to combat the "myths" that permeate the internet they will continue to propogate.

With the rear engine bias (weight directly over the rear wheels) and AWD the 911 makes a really good winter car. I was shocked that it didn't have a block heater but not once this winter did it refuse to turn over - even at -40. About the only two concerns I had were ground clearance and tire selection. With tires you have to be careful to keep the stock front/rear tire size ratio due to the style of front differential. When I got my 295 width rear Pirelli's I wondered how they would be but after the first snowfall I wasn't worried any more - they worked great. I didn't encounter a problem with ground clearance but was worried it would be an issue. However, removing the front bottom rubber spoiler and raising the coilovers would probably make the car no worse than any other (think 959 rally car).

Rage: Hurry up and get a 996TT already. I can't believe how good the car really is. I too wasn't a fan of the styling at first but the performance made me an instant fan. I've even grown to like the styling - especially with the GT2 or Techart Nose/Tail packages. I still prefer the 997TT interior and could see myself getting into one if only to get the PDK. Are there faster cars? Sure. Are there better looking cars? Sure. Are there more practical cars? Sure. But when you consider everything (performance, looks, versatility, etc.) and then see what these cars are selling for now it makes them a really tough package to beat.

[rage2]

Originally posted by soloracer
Rage: Hurry up and get a 996TT already. I can't believe how good the car really is. I too wasn't a fan of the styling at first but the performance made me an instant fan. I've even grown to like the styling - especially with the GT2 or Techart Nose/Tail packages. I still prefer the 997TT interior and could see myself getting into one if only to get the PDK. Are there faster cars? Sure. Are there better looking cars? Sure. Are there more practical cars? Sure. But when you consider everything (performance, looks, versatility, etc.) and then see what these cars are selling for now it makes them a really tough package to beat.
Working on clearing garage space. Should have one before winter.

C63 is a great winter car, but it sucks off the line haha. Need that critical 0-20km/h performance! :rofl:

[heavyD]

Originally posted by soloracer

Based upon your knowledge, what would you say if I had come up with "The EVO isn't a practical winter car and will be expensive to maintain" after I admitted that I didn't have any experience with it? You would probably call me out on it just like I did. Say nothing and the next thing you know 911's are only good on sunny days above 30 degrees but don't take them out if it looks like rain cause you are likely to crash. I guess we should forget all the cold weather testing that Porsche does in northern Canada/Alaska/Northern Europe. Bet you were surprised by all the positive 911 responses. If people don't speak up to combat the "myths" that permeate the internet they will continue to propogate.

You don't really need experience with an EVO to come to the conclusion that it will be capable in winter seeing it has one of the most advanced AWD systems available in any car. I wouldn't argue with it being more expensive than the average car to maintain because it can be for sure as it has a lot of different fluids that require to be changed periodically from transmission, to differentials, to the AYC system.

Honestly I've been driving around this city in winters longer than most of you have even sat behind the wheel of a car and I've rarely if ever seen Porsches rolling around in the middle of winter in Calgary so if it's not a myth the local Porsche owners certainly aren't pulling up their side of the bargain.

Does anyone remember that early December storm a couple of years ago on a Friday afternoon where rain turned to snow, turned to ice? I do and I don't recall a time where I've seen so many cars left on the side of the road because they couldn't make it up Sarcee Trail or Shaganappi. The next morning I saw a bunch of BMW's and other assorted cars left parked on the side of the road. The best memory for me was watching a bunch of vehicles sliding sideways trying to make it up Shaganappi while I casually drove around them in my EVO watching other people on the side of the road stuck while I was effortlessly getting anywhere I wanted to go. I don't care what anyone says a RWD Porsche wouldn't have been able to handle that storm but I won't disagree that you can't drive it in the winter because you can drive any car these days in the winter. Some simply aren't going fare as well in major snow storms that's all. I'll be driving my Mustang in the winter but if someone asked me if it was an ideal winter car I would probably say no.

[benyl]

I recall that storm clearly. I was in my 335i and my wife was in the c63 going around the same cars you are talking about.

To say a 911 wouldn't have been capable is stretching things.

I don't know if you work downtown or not, but I have seen plenty of 911s of all varieties there in the winter. Most of the ballers with winter driven 911 live in areas just south of dt like my royal, Britannia and bel-air. So you might not run into them on your way home.

[max_boost]

I've lost track with what you guys are arguing about.

Anyway, maybe those vehicles didn't have winter tires and that's why they were parked on the side of the road. :D

I believe most vehicles can be winter driven fine with the proper tires. AWD is definitely nice to gain traction so there's no point arguing that.

Dealership maintenance is going to be expensive regardless. This isn't a Honda! It would be nice if they had it built into the price, seems to work for BMW.

Are the 911's prone to electrical problems? That's the only thing that worries me. Minor things that trip a CEL or some other light, bring into the dealer and get dinged for $300 and it was just some loose wire somewhere. Might be a bad example but just saying.

I'm looking to get a 911 too, if my NSX sells haha

[xrayvsn]

I have had the 997 for 2 years. No electrical gremlins during my ownership. It has been as reliable as any other car I have owned. My car is also not stock, with upgraded intercoolers, exhaust, headers and tune.

The only issue I have had is the carbon fiber trim piece on the dash warping, which was replaced under warranty. I have since read that this is a common issue, so something you might want to stay away from, since it is just a cosmetic piece anyway.

I have not driven it in winter, but would not hesitate to do so if I needed to. I just need 2 more doors and the ability to seat 3 across the back, which the S4 provides. A friend of mine drives his 997 turbo year-round, and says it is a great winter car. The one thing that does get beat up is the front plastic air dam, which is a cheap part to replace anyway - like $300-500 or so.

Since the OP has another vehicle to drive, there is nothing to stop him from daily driving a 911, since they are fantastic daily drivers. Can't really go wrong with any of the 3 cars he has listed, but I would probably consider a 996 turbo instead of the 997 C2, or trying to stretch to a C4S. Drove a C4S and it is also great.

[That.Guy.S30]

Originally posted by heavyD

Does anyone remember that early December storm a couple of years ago on a Friday afternoon where rain turned to snow, turned to ice? I do and I don't recall a time where I've seen so many cars left on the side of the road because they couldn't make it up Sarcee Trail or Shaganappi. The next morning I saw a bunch of BMW's and other assorted cars left parked on the side of the road. The best memory for me was watching a bunch of vehicles sliding sideways trying to make it up Shaganappi while I casually drove around them in my EVO watching other people on the side of the road stuck while I was effortlessly getting anywhere I wanted to go. I don't care what anyone says a RWD Porsche wouldn't have been able to handle that storm but I won't disagree that you can't drive it in the winter because you can drive any car these days in the winter. Some simply aren't going fare as well in major snow storms that's all. I'll be driving my Mustang in the winter but if someone asked me if it was an ideal winter car I would probably say no.

I usually dont bother but cmon man. If you have been driving for as long as you say, then you already know that most people were sliding because of tires. I remember that day and my RWD pos made it up that hill no problem. to be fair i had my nokians on.

[Maxt]

Originally posted by heavyD


You don't really need experience with an EVO to come to the conclusion that it will be capable in winter seeing it has one of the most advanced AWD systems available in any car. I wouldn't argue with it being more expensive than the average car to maintain because it can be for sure as it has a lot of different fluids that require to be changed periodically from transmission, to differentials, to the AYC system.

Honestly I've been driving around this city in winters longer than most of you have even sat behind the wheel of a car and I've rarely if ever seen Porsches rolling around in the middle of winter in Calgary so if it's not a myth the local Porsche owners certainly aren't pulling up their side of the bargain.

Does anyone remember that early December storm a couple of years ago on a Friday afternoon where rain turned to snow, turned to ice? I do and I don't recall a time where I've seen so many cars left on the side of the road because they couldn't make it up Sarcee Trail or Shaganappi. The next morning I saw a bunch of BMW's and other assorted cars left parked on the side of the road. The best memory for me was watching a bunch of vehicles sliding sideways trying to make it up Shaganappi while I casually drove around them in my EVO watching other people on the side of the road stuck while I was effortlessly getting anywhere I wanted to go. I don't care what anyone says a RWD Porsche wouldn't have been able to handle that storm but I won't disagree that you can't drive it in the winter because you can drive any car these days in the winter. Some simply aren't going fare as well in major snow storms that's all. I'll be driving my Mustang in the winter but if someone asked me if it was an ideal winter car I would probably say no.
Most of the people you are arguing with have AWD porsches, not RWD anyway, so whats your point.

[atgilchrist]

Originally posted by rage2

Working on clearing garage space. Should have one before winter.

C63 is a great winter car, but it sucks off the line haha. Need that critical 0-20km/h performance! :rofl:

My business partner has a C63, and if that thing is too slow off the line, I will have one official FML please. :(

[max_boost]

Originally posted by atgilchrist


My business partner has a C63, and if that thing is too slow off the line, I will have one official FML please. :(

It only sucks off the line in snow. :D :burnout:

[atgilchrist]

Ahh ice and snow. It's now summer, I forgot about that unpleasant part of Canadian life.

Back on topic, 911 fo sho.

[soloracer]

Originally posted by heavyD


You don't really need experience with an EVO to come to the conclusion that it will be capable in winter seeing it has one of the most advanced AWD systems available in any car. I wouldn't argue with it being more expensive than the average car to maintain because it can be for sure as it has a lot of different fluids that require to be changed periodically from transmission, to differentials, to the AYC system.

Honestly I've been driving around this city in winters longer than most of you have even sat behind the wheel of a car and I've rarely if ever seen Porsches rolling around in the middle of winter in Calgary so if it's not a myth the local Porsche owners certainly aren't pulling up their side of the bargain.

Does anyone remember that early December storm a couple of years ago on a Friday afternoon where rain turned to snow, turned to ice? I do and I don't recall a time where I've seen so many cars left on the side of the road because they couldn't make it up Sarcee Trail or Shaganappi. The next morning I saw a bunch of BMW's and other assorted cars left parked on the side of the road. The best memory for me was watching a bunch of vehicles sliding sideways trying to make it up Shaganappi while I casually drove around them in my EVO watching other people on the side of the road stuck while I was effortlessly getting anywhere I wanted to go. I don't care what anyone says a RWD Porsche wouldn't have been able to handle that storm but I won't disagree that you can't drive it in the winter because you can drive any car these days in the winter. Some simply aren't going fare as well in major snow storms that's all. I'll be driving my Mustang in the winter but if someone asked me if it was an ideal winter car I would probably say no.

A) Just because you haven't seen Porsche's driving in winter does not mean they aren't good in winter. Again you don't have a clue and yes it is a "myth". Perhaps the owners don't want to subject their cars to the salt and conditions of winter? Perhaps they drive an EVO in winter instead since it's a disposable car? For the record, my girlfriend has a FWD Civic and at one time I had a FWD Prelude. The 996 TT is a WAAAAAY better car in winter than both of those.

B) A RWD Porsche would have NO PROBLEM with the winter storm you are describing - provided it has the right tires. What don't you understand? The engine is sitting right on top of the rear wheels which means you have great traction on your drive wheels.

C) Nowhere did I claim the 911 was better than an EVO in winter. The AWD 911 "might" be better due to the engine location and balance but I can't say because I don't have experience with an EVO. I am just trying to correct your ignorance regarding Porsche's.

PS: Your length of time driving is irrelevant - I know many people who have been shitty drivers for years. The real question is "What is your experience driving a Porsche in winter?" Since the answer is "ZERO" your opinion is worthless.

[milesmcewing]

Might as well add my 2 cents in!

Get a 911!

No need for four wheel drive, but if you want it get it.

I drive my RWD 911, EVERY day, including ALL winter - my wife even used it for an ice driving school. I commuted to Red Deer all winter in the snow and unplowed crap, never a hiccup.

Maintenance? my wife's Lexus has more problems, costs more and is a huge amount more boring.

Hey Paul and Erik, just got back from a 3 week euro-trip testing race cars- Hockenheim, Nurburgring (GP Course), Imola, Donington Park. Give me a call we'll catch up. PM me, I'll be in Red Deer this week - I send you a phone number

I have not owned an EVO but owned several Audis, not a fan of the feel, but still great cars. Drove all of them at the track a lot of times.

None of the cars you are comparing are bad cars, just different versions of greatness. Just don't ge caught up in the 'I need a AWD' that the media continues to feed us. Didn't your mom drive you to school in a '72 Dodge Monaco RWD with bald bias-ply summer tires - still here too?

Performance is not what a magazine tells you, it is what you feel.

Cheers!
Sorry about changing the subjet, but a couple of pics from the trip back to Imola to meet up with the rest of the team.http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o41/beetlebones/DSC01898.jpg
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o41/beetlebones/DSC01903.jpg

[Cos]

^^ That looks awesome Miles! That is a once in a lifetime trip right there.


I must say that Miles is a wicked guy. When I first started looked at Porsches he spent time with me on the phone and alleviated a bunch of my concerns chatting to me. Next time I am in Red Deer I owe you a beer.

He also knows what he is talking about (when it comes to Porsches especially) which is apparent to anyone who has spent more than 5 minutes with him.

[Skyline_Addict]

Miles seemes like a guy I should be making friends with.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by xrayvsn
The S4 is softer, has more body roll, and is heavier. It makes less power obviously, but it is still a fun, very tossable car. You must get the S4 with the sport diff, which improves the corner exit feel under throttle. The S4 tends to understeer, like most AWD cars.

I echo this. The only complain I have against my S4 is that it's too heavy, over 4000lb with driver. As great as the AWD/sportdiff is, you can't fight law of physics. Brakes and tires wear fast against the weight. Really great winter car with right tires. The only problem is clearance but you probably would have the same issue with the Porsche.

[milesmcewing]

Don't worry Cos! You can buy me a beer in Calgary, I have just been spending time up here for work, but am still home 2-3 days a week and all weekends.

Thanks for the kind words, I try to dispel as many of the media myths and uninformed opinions that I can.

-Oh, and not a once in a lifetime trip, I do at least one a year. I also put together road trips for people around the world, let me know when you want to plan one, its probably cheaper than going to MExico!

Happy Trails,
Miles

PS I have a REALLY big trip coming up in September - we are driving from Calgary To Argentina - only 30,000 km! On my russian sidecar no less.

[max_boost]

That is so cool.

Can't wait to get my first Porsche sometime soon.

[Khyron]

Definately some good points here, love hearing from people that actually have used the options. I like xrayvsn's solution - just have 2!

I think the pcar is the winner, if not just because I always wanted one and it really only will work while the kids are little. I can get the Evo/S4/335/whatever later when they're bigger.

I can take the Santa if the weather is really terrible, but if I buy one I guarantee it will be run all year.

Trick now is to find one that isn't silver. :)

[xrayvsn]

You will find the rear seats in the 911 are perfect for kids about 4 - 11 years old. Younger than that, and they need a booster, and I couldn't find one that would fit in the rear seats, older than that, and they start complaining about their legs being squished by the front seat.

If I only had 3 kids, I would probably daily drive the 911, but I totally need to be able to seat 3 across the back, with one in the front passenger seat.

I hear you on the silver. Mine is arctic silver and its more or less invisible.

[C4S]

I put child seat, stroller etc in mine.. go Costco ..Super store... etc no problem.

And driving same 996 (3.6L much better then the 3.4L 996) for 8 year, just do service, and no problem at all other then replace the temp sensor, O2 sensor, battery( replaced battery once in 8 yr isn't bad).
However, if you don't find a good 911, then it will cost you arm and leg ..

We got a 996 Turbo, US car .. spent $15K on it .. and still some problem, probably need another $15K or more .. so we wholesale it cheap! :(

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

Id rock a 911 over those.

[boarderfatty]

Originally posted by heavyD


But, but it's cheap to maintain. I heard it at beyond from people with experience.;)

I have had my C4S with 95000km now daily driven for the last 3 years. I have done 3 oil changes at $200 each $400 for 2 lower front control arms, the previous owner clogged the radiators and had them replaced but that was negligence, brakes were done just before I got it, nothing else. so 3 years and 32,000km I have invested about $600 in maintenance and wear and tear which isn't bad in my opinion.

As far as winter driving goes, Porsche has one of the most advanced AWD systems I have ever driven when I have good winter tires. except for road clearance I would prefer it to my 05 STI, my 2002 325xi, my 96 talon tsi, my 2003 Jeep Grand Cherokee, my 2008 Toyota Tundra, my 1998 Durango, or my 2006 Dodge 3500.

[ArjayAquino]

Originally posted by boarderfatty

I would prefer it to my 05 STI, my 2002 325xi, my 96 talon tsi, my 2003 Jeep Grand Cherokee, my 2008 Toyota Tundra, my 1998 Durango, or my 2006 Dodge 3500.

that's a lot of vehicles :nut:

[boarderfatty]

Originally posted by ArjayAquino


that's a lot of vehicles :nut:


20 in about 7 years

[cam_wmh]

Originally posted by heavyD


No I haven't and no need to be an asshole about it. Are you trying to say it would be better in winter than an AWD S4 or EVO because that would be bullshit. I've driven a 1993 MR2 turbo (probably one of the worst cars you can drive in the winter) in two winters and that car didn't have any traction control and needless to say I had no issues but I'm a good driver and wouldn't recommend the average driver do that judging by all the accidents I see in the winter in this city.


Originally posted by heavyD



Are you saying he's not credible and you are? Look I don't doubt that if you have a problem free Porsche that it won't cost much to maintain but if you have problems its going to cost considerably more than the average car. You gotta pay to play young laddy.

This thread has been education for me. I learned today that the Porsche 911 is the ultimate winter car and is as cheap to maintain as a Civic.:facepalm:

Stop being a melodramatic priss.

[slinkie]

Originally posted by cam_wmh




Stop being a melodramatic priss.

Turbo r32?? Link to pics or build? would love to hear this car in person

[astro_ng]

I'd get the evo

Pro
-huge aftermarket support
-functional rear seats
-maintenance cost is the lowest of the 3
-vehicle is also the cheapest of the 3
-AWHP!

Con
-you'll see more on the road
-rear seats don't fold down

consider an STI?

[cam_wmh]

Originally posted by slinkie


Turbo r32?? Link to pics or build? would love to hear this car in person

VF RSR kit. VF never took them to market though
450AWHP

Still gotta take it out for a proper shoot, and to race city for a 1/4 rip.
Here's a shitty pic.
http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/2001/photo1efn.jpg




Oh & for those looking, here's a 996 C4S in Airdrie.
http://calgary.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-cars-trucks-2002-Porsche-911-Carrera-4S-Coupe-W0QQAdIdZ287707091

Edit.. ok one more
http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/7775/dsc0316p.jpg

[rage2]

Originally posted by cam_wmh
Oh & for those looking, here's a 996 C4S in Airdrie.
http://calgary.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-cars-trucks-2002-Porsche-911-Carrera-4S-Coupe-W0QQAdIdZ287707091
You can get a turbo for that price in the US.

[cam_wmh]

Originally posted by rage2

You can get a turbo for that price in the US.

Absolutely. Just sharing for anyone that wants local.

[xrayvsn]

Originally posted by astro_ng
I'd get the evo

Pro
-huge aftermarket support
-functional rear seats
-maintenance cost is the lowest of the 3
-vehicle is also the cheapest of the 3
-AWHP!

Con
-you'll see more on the road
-rear seats don't fold down

consider an STI?

Of your pro's for the EVO:

- aftermarket is great for the 996/997 turbo, and improving for the S4
- rear seats in the S4 are more roomy.
- did you read the rest of the thread Re: maintenance from people who actually own these cars?
- price point is equivalent. You can score a used 996/997 for the same price as a new EVO MR, and get into a base S4 with sport diff for more or less the same price as the Mitsu.
- S4 or 996/997 C4, C4S, turbo also have AWHP. I had my S4 on a dyno here in town, and it made 294 whp with just a catback. Stock EVO's on that dyno do 225 ish.

[cam_wmh]

Just one more side-track.
AWD 993 Dick Magnet:
http://calgary.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-cars-trucks-1996-Porsche-993-Twin-Turbo-W0QQAdIdZ289003737

[heavyD]

Originally posted by cam_wmh

Stop being a melodramatic priss.

And what are you adding to this thread? Have you owned any of these cars?

[cam_wmh]

Originally posted by heavyD


And what are you adding to this thread? Have you owned any of these cars?

Relax.

Owned no, but driven a B8 S4, and 997.

[heavyD]

Originally posted by cam_wmh


Relax.

Owned no, but driven a B8 S4, and 997.

I am relaxed. I wasn't the one that got excited about maintenance costs. Remember in my first post I stated that I wouldn't recommend an EVO MR over an S4 so it's not like I'm being a fanboy here. People seem to get pretty uptight about their rides and I still stand that the EVO would cost less to maintain seeing it would be under warranty while depending on the year of the Porsche it may not and Porsch parts cost more than Mitsubishi parts in general as if EVO's were supremely expensive to maintain there wouldn't be nearly as many young guys driving them.

So in other words you have no ownership experience.

[Go4Long]

on top of the rear seat room of an S4 being more than an EVO, the trunk of an EVO is an absolute joke, my wife and I were stroller shopping and none of the strollers we really liked were even close to fitting in the trunk.

Yes, the EVO is a great winter car, but blaming the car for people driving other cars not being able to navigate in winter is rediculous...I drove a 2wd Tacoma for the last two winters and didn't get stuck or spin out once. Blame drivers for bad driving...

[you&me]

Originally posted by rage2

You can get a turbo for that price in the US.

Considering the mileage and colour, you could probably buy a similar Turbo here!

[rage2]

bump...

Looks like I'll have first hand experience in a few months. Picked up a 996 TT as my new winter beater. Spec'd out winter tires for her already. The C63 is now the summer car.

I'm officially part of the 911 winter beater club! :thumbsup:

[94boosted]

:eek: Baller manual or PDK?

[Skyline_Addict]

PDK isn't available for the 996TT. it was first introduced as an option in 2010 models.

[Khyron]

Congrats! I'm actively in the market but being picky. The 997TT is just a retarded beast - I will be just fine with a "wimpy" one. :P

[rage2]

I picked up a tiptronic one. Not as fun as a manual (the auto is the same as my old SLK32/E55 AMGs) but it'll be perfect for winter + traffic.

[KRyn]

Originally posted by rage2
I picked up a tiptronic one. Not as fun as a manual (the auto is the same as my old SLK32/E55 AMGs) but it'll be perfect for winter + traffic.


What will the first mod be, some kind of mild tune with a full exhaust?

[colinxx235]

Originally posted by KRyn



What will the first mod be, some kind of mild tune with a full exhaust?


probably Matte Black 3M wrap :rofl:

[Skyline_Addict]

Originally posted by colinxx235



probably Matte Black 3M wrap :rofl:

:werd:

[rage2]

The car I got was Black (non metallic), so the Satin black won't look very good...

Just so there's no guessing, I'm only interested in a few small mods. Chip to 500hp, rear wing (I absolutely hate the 996 rear wing design), wheels for summer. Not even gonna lower it.

Haven't decided if I want full 3M, or just impact area this time around.

[max_boost]

Originally posted by rage2
I picked up a tiptronic one. Not as fun as a manual (the auto is the same as my old SLK32/E55 AMGs) but it'll be perfect for winter + traffic.

Congrats raj.

:burnout:

[Cos]

1st in line to buy it once you get bored of it

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by rage2
The car I got was Black (non metallic), so the Satin black won't look very good...

Just so there's no guessing, I'm only interested in a few small mods. Chip to 500hp, rear wing (I absolutely hate the 996 rear wing design), wheels for summer. Not even gonna lower it.

Haven't decided if I want full 3M, or just impact area this time around.

So this will tie you over til the BS shows up?

[rage2]

Originally posted by Xtrema
So this will tie you over til the BS shows up?
I sure hope so. I'm going through some serious Black Series withdrawl right now.

[xrayvsn]

I am sure it won't take you long to start looking at K24's, intercoolers, full exhaust and tune - despite your intentions otherwise. You'll probably end up wanting more than the roughly 375 whp you get here on the stock turbos.

[rage2]

I was actually talking about K24 turbos at dinner the same time you posted that lol. Crappy thing is, with the tiptronic, I have to modify the TCU as well before I can get into any serious engine mods.

[962 kid]

K24s + GT2 intercoolers are a good way to make the car a lot more fun, but yeah the tip is kind of a pita. As an alternative to the K24s, I think Paul has had good things to say about the billet K16 turbos from AMS.

[483hp]

Originally posted by rage2
I'm officially part of the 911 winter beater club! :thumbsup:

Welcome!

[m10-power]

Tips a great trasmission, especially for you're intended use. I dont much like the 6spd 996tt in stop and go traffic. Clutch is hard to modulate and takes much more effort to smoothly get off the line then it should.

I have a used set of bilstein pss9's that I recently replaced with some kw clubsports if you're interested. In great shape and would be a good price.

Billet K16s are the way to go for sure, quicker spooling then stock with enough flow for anything you're tip could handle.

Look into the 997.2 turbo intercoolers, inexpensive and a near bolt in major improvement over stock.