Why dont more cars come with 4WS?

[tehwegz]

The only car ever sold with purely mechanical 4WS was the 3rd gen Prelude...

Then came electronically controlled 4WS in select models of 4th and 5th gen Prelude's, some domestic trucks and some models of Mazda 626, Skyline, GT3000 etc. and for a lot of those vehicles it was only activated at certain speeds...

Whereas the 3rd gen Prelude was the only car where whenever you steered it also steered the rear wheels.

4JCks2Ps53s

I want to hear some pros and cons...obviously the advantage is extremely nimble handling, maybe go as far as to say its a lot safer than just front wheel steering.

Cons...more moving parts? more tire wear on rear wheels? slightly more gas consumption? So basically the same symptoms of having AWD...

makes no sense, and may the fun and innovative side of honda RIP.

[theken]

Ever drove one in winter?

[Team_Mclaren]

they are a pain to park

[slinkie]

I've heard of more than one bb6 crash where the driver said the 4ws was the cause :dunno:

[effingidiot]

Originally posted by slinkie
I've heard of more than one bb6 crash where the driver said the 4ws was the cause :dunno:
Which is surprising, really, considering that Acura owners are some of the worst drivers on the road. They're only rivaled by the Hyundai and Kia drivers and closely followed by Subaru drivers.

[slinkie]

Originally posted by effingidiot

Which is surprising, really, considering that Acura owners are some of the worst drivers on the road. They're only rivaled by the Hyundai and Kia drivers and closely followed by Subaru drivers.

What kind of comment is that? BB6 isn't an acura anyway :angel: I don't know anyone who crashed with the acura SHAWD, is that similar to the prelude SH?

[G-ZUS]

I loved it on my 91 Prelude SE, my cousin has a CB7 Accord back home which apparently has 4ws and he says he loves it too

[Darell_n]

Con: Price. Nothing else matters.

[astro_ng]

cost to fix, cost to produce.

It didn't show nearly enough gain for cost.

The VR-4 had it too i believe.

[corsvette]

4WS works very well for Ice racing! It was also a little known option on GM trucks and Suburban/Yukons for a short time

[heavyD]

The benefit's aren't worth the price, complexity, and reliability. If it was worth it it would still be used especially given the available technology today compared to 20 years ago. Computer controlled differentials work better and are easier to implement.

[Tik-Tok]

I want 4WS that has crab walking capability :rofl:

[GTS4tw]

Anyone else ever had it screw up? Its scary as hell on an icy highway! My skyline was dogtracking it down the road in traffic, I shut it off and turned it back on and it seemed to fix itself, but i've been nervous about it ever since.

[StreetRacerX]

I don't use the Stealth in the winter so I haven't had any experiences with it that were bad.

Some parts are no longer manufactured for it so when it comes time to fix something with it, it will probably be best to get an AWS delete kit.

[Deetz]

I used to have a jdm 92 Celica GT-R with 4ws, it worked great. I did worry if it ever broke, but i never had any issues

[kylejw]

3000GT/Stealth 4WS has no electronics, it is different from the Prelude in that it is in-phase (wheels turn same direction at high speed) where I believe the Prelude is opposite phase. It is all hydraulic and works such that the faster the steering wheel movement the more the back wheels deflect.

Edit: Just did a quick search and it looks like the Prelude could do both same and opposite phase?

[ExtremeSi]

The 3rd gen Prelude's system turned the rear wheels the same way as the fronts at small steering angles, such as when you are changing lanes on a highway. And then the rear wheels would turn the opposite way as you turned the steering wheel more. You can see it demonstrated in the OP's video.

I too miss when Honda experimented with new, innovative technologies.

[CLiVE]

Originally posted by kylejw
3000GT/Stealth 4WS has no electronics, it is different from the Prelude in that it is in-phase (wheels turn same direction at high speed) where I believe the Prelude is opposite phase. It is all hydraulic and works such that the faster the steering wheel movement the more the back wheels deflect.

Exactly, the system on the 3000GT/Stealth is only active above 41 mph. I found on my stealth it would give some weird sensations when active; felt like oversteer in some situations when none was present.

[StreetRacerX]

Here's the video of the 3000GT AWS


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9c9dxEnYh3Y

[tentacles]

BMW 7 series has it. Probably other luxury flagships too.

It never went away on the Skyline either - G35/7 still has HICAS.

The fact that no one seems to know this points to it not being that big of a deal. Any car that has multi-link rear suspension with a toe link has some passive rear wheel steering by default, so your car probably has 4WS without you even knowing it.

[n0xid]

Took it out on the skyline, was annoying..

[Gollum244]

ever heard of a Jeep Hurricane? Concept car, but all wheel steering out the ass. having 2 hemi's isnt a bad idea either.

http://youtu.be/3b5zH0G5pxE

[ZeroGravity]

Originally posted by slinkie
I've heard of more than one bb6 crash where the driver said the 4ws was the cause :dunno:

Actually BB6 (5th gen prelude)... as far as I know... the ones in North America anyways (maybe they have some strange models in Japan)... never had 4WS (four wheel steering).

The SH model's system is a torque transfer system. The system does not in anyway assist in changing the direction of the front / rear wheels.

[alien]

what about HICAS on the 300's? weren't they the same idea where they worked at above a certain speed?

[n1zm0]

Originally posted by tehwegz
The only car ever sold with purely mechanical 4WS was the 3rd gen Prelude...

as above said HICAS early models used hydraulic systems then Super HICAS moved in to electrical actuators - so the 3rd gen prelude wasnt the only mechanically purely mechanically powered 4ws system, but the activation km/h was different from some models (you hear 60-80 km/h for some), only in diagnostic mode could you get it to shimmy at full stop on a 300 or a skyline iirc.

why dont they make more things with 4ws? goto a stealership and price out even a Super HICAS rear system on a 240sx, then cry and wish you never slid it into a curb in the winter.

i think GMC still used that quadrasteer system on their trucks just up until a few years ago.

[g-m]

Originally posted by ExtremeSi
The 3rd gen Prelude's system turned the rear wheels the same way as the fronts at small steering angles, such as when you are changing lanes on a highway. And then the rear wheels would turn the opposite way as you turned the steering wheel more. You can see it demonstrated in the OP's video.

I too miss when Honda experimented with new, innovative technologies. 300zx turbo models is very similar

[Calgarian]

Originally posted by ZeroGravity


Actually BB6 (5th gen prelude)... as far as I know... the ones in North America anyways (maybe they have some strange models in Japan)... never had 4WS (four wheel steering).

The SH model's system is a torque transfer system. The system does not in anyway assist in changing the direction of the front / rear wheels.

Actually the SHAWD/torque vectoring technology does assist in vehicle direction change granted it does not in anyway steer the front or rear wheels. As a owner of a Prelude 4WS one of the draw backs was increased understeer (and parking) however directional stability and high speed lane changes were a dramatic improvement over the non 4WS.
I've driven all of the SH AWD Acura's and can tell you the ability to put the power down in a turn on a low friction surface or high speed transitions is impressive. I'm not sold on the idea of using the braking system to slow the inside wheel however the approach taken by Acura where the outside rear wheel is rotated faster works very well.

[thager]

Production cars with active four wheel steering

BMW 850CSi (optional)
BMW 7-Series (2009 onwards, part of sport package) [3]
Chevrolet Silverado (2002–2005) (high and low speed)
Efini MS-9 (high and low speed)
GMC Sierra (2002–2005) (high and low speed)
GMC Sierra Denali (2002–2004) (high and low speed)
Honda Prelude (high and low speed, mechanical from 1987 to 1991, computerized from 1992–2001)
Honda Accord (1991) (high and low speed, mechanical)
Honda Ascot Innova (1992) (high and low speed, computerized from 1992-1996)
Infiniti FX50 AWD (option on Sports package) (2008–Present) (high and low speed, fully electronic)
Infiniti G35 Sedan (option on Sport models) (2007–Present) (high speed only?)
Infiniti G35 Coupe (option on Sport models) (2006–Present) (high speed only) [4]
Infiniti G37
Infiniti J30t (touring package) (1993–1994)
Infiniti M35 (option on Sport models) (2006–Present) (high speed only?)
Infiniti M45 (option on Sport models) (2006–Present) (high speed only?)
Infiniti Q45t (1989–1994) (high speed only?)
Mazda 929 (1992–1995)(computerised, high and low speed)(all models)
Mazda 626 (1988) (high and low speed)
Mazda MX-6 (1989–1997) (high and low speed)
Mazda RX-7 (optional, computerized, high and low speed)
Mazda Eunos 800 (1996–2003) (Optional, computerized, high and low speed)
Mitsubishi Galant/Sigma (high speed only)
Mitsubishi GTO (also sold as the Mitsubishi 3000GT and the Dodge Stealth) (Mechanical) (high speed only)
Nissan Cefiro (A31) (high speed only)
Nissan 240SX/Silvia (option on SE models) (high speed only)
Nissan 300ZX (all Twin-Turbo Z32 models) (high speed only)
Nissan Laurel (later versions) (high speed only)
Nissan Fuga/Infiniti M (high speed only)
Nissan Silvia (option on all S13 models) (high speed only)
Nissan Skyline GTS, GTS-R, GTS-X (1986) (high speed only)
Nissan Skyline GT-R (high and low speed)
Renault Laguna (only in GT version of 3rd generation which was launched October 2007, GT launched on April 2008)
Subaru Alcyone SVX JDM (1991–1996) (Japanese version: "L-CDX" only) (high speed only)
Toyota Aristo (1997) (high and low speed?)
Toyota Camry / Vista JDM 1988-1999 (Optional) [5]
Toyota Celica (option on 5th and 6th generation, 1990-1993 ST183 and 1994-1997 ST203) (Dual-mode, high and low speed)
Toyota Soarer (UZZ32)

[Troll-ol]

SOmetimes 4ws would be nice. With awd on my car it's got the turning radius of a semi it seems.