purple prince no better then bronco.

[syritis]

Bell: Council swipes future tax breaks 28

rick-bell
By Rick Bell ,QMI Agency

Tax grab City council has quietly backed a plan to scoop up future property tax breaks from the province to deal with ongoing funding shortfalls.
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Sometimes, city hall outdoes itself. Recently, council voted for the incredible.

No tax breaks from the province to Calgarians. Ever.

City hall will scoop each and every provincial tax break forever, or until the province cracks open their piggy bank, gives up their share of the property or lets Calgary impose more kinds of taxes on their own.

On June 28, while deadline slaves in the news game scramble to tell you about three years of tax hikes and a phased-in whack to your water bill of $300, city council moves further down the road of contempt for citizens and pushes through another nasty nugget.

It is proposed by Ald. Gord Lowe and seconded by Ald. Diane Colley-Urquhart, a one-time fiscal hawk who has flown the coop.

Should the province offer up another tax break to us, council will take it and spend it.

The thumbs-up is 12, including the mayor, with only three opposed — Demong, Keating and, yes, Pincott.

From now on, the tax grab will be automatic. There will be no further vote and no more discussion. The vote is done once and for all.

Remember, this year, on the province’s share of the property tax bill, the usually clueless folks up in Edmonton actually give you a tax cut of 2.5%.

Faster than you say ka-ching, the tax hike on the city’s share of the property tax bill soars to 10.4%, since the city raises taxes far higher than they planned to fill in the room left by the province’s tax break.

Most people don’t connect the dots and the dirty deed is done.

Ald. Peter Demong is surprised the tax grab into eternity flew under the radar but today’s city hall sets a record almost every week, turning out more crap than the week before.

Political dreams ... er ... hallucinations eat up a lot of paper and attention.

This week’s council agenda is so thick you could use it for body armour and in the agenda are the minutes of the meeting where the forever tax grab went down.

“It was the wrong thing to do,” says Ald. Peter Demong.

“You can’t say you will just take the money without voting on it anymore.”

Demong says he would take a good hard look at swallowing the province’s tax break if Stelmach’s crowd say they’re cutting their rate to free up more coin for the city.

This past go-round, Mayor Nenshi told us that was his understanding and even talked about a possible press conference with Premier Ed to announce the move.

Ed held no press conference.

The province said council could decide whatever they wanted — and council did.

The automatic annual tax grab is justified as the city wants more dollars to build stuff and fix stuff and pay off borrowed cash.

Unfortunately, until you slow down the flow of dough, the Little Shop of Horrors downtown will keep on keeping on.

Feed me. Feed me.

Speaking of feeding, on Monday, at council’s drone-a-thon, the little darlings will talk about a space shortage at the city.

You see, over the next nine years, city administration predicts an average growth rate of 150 administrative staff every year. That’s 1,350 “quality office space solutions” needed for the anticipated 1,350 added staff.

Actually, they round it up to 1,400. One price tag put on the table for all of the administrative office space “solutions” is $277 million by 2020. That’s more than a quarter of billion bucks, billion with a B.

In the next three years, the price tag could be $180 million of that.

Naturally, deep thinkers also will want another $58.5 million to spend on corporate furniture over the next decade. All those new occupiers of office space will need to be comfy.

While we’re talking money, Demong, who opposed the perpetual tax grab, wants the city to get a share of the province’s oilsands royalties — 10% to local governments in Alberta, of what is expected to be a fattening golden goose.

On Monday, as a matter of urgent business, he wants council to agree on trying to get the province to sign off on the plan.

Demong says, when the oilsands are hot, the cities and towns have to play catchup, so why not give them a taste of the Fort Mac gold to cover the tab?

“It would greatly ease the growing strain and the tax burden faced by individual taxpayers,” says Demong, in his proposal.

The alderman is well aware folks will argue the city doesn’t spend its current cash properly, let alone more moolah.

“I can’t really argue, I am one of them.”

[email protected]

for a man that has a degree in not-for-profit finances he certainly like to spend more then he has to (airport tunnel) and take everything he can.


I think it was in grade six we were taught that to increase jobs and economic recovery the government should spend more money on local infrastructure projects (think the hoover dam in the great depression) instead im puzzled why our city is doing the exact opposite.

[Guillermo]

whatever, the taxes in calgary are lower than just about every other city in canada (i think there are only 2 or so cities with lower taxes). IMO we should raise taxes and start improving things like roads and snow removal. :dunno:

[badatusrnames]

Originally posted by Guillermo
IMO we should raise taxes and start improving things like roads and snow removal. :dunno:

Sure, but man, I don't know if I can trust City Council to actually spend it properly.

[dirtsniffer]

Man, I had a hard time following that article. It seemed like it was translated from morse code. OP, whats the opposite of spending on local projects? Wouldn't building the airport tunnel be an example of this? If you referenced the finger trap bridge it would make more sense i think. How could we make the tunnel for less? are you a city planner or a civil engineer?

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by dirtsniffer
Man, I had a hard time following that article. It seemed like it was translated from morse code.

It's a Sun Media article, what do you expect?

[ZenOps]

Y'know they produced a really great tomato called purple prince.

Its one of my favorites.

[hampstor]

Originally posted by Guillermo
whatever, the taxes in calgary are lower than just about every other city in canada (i think there are only 2 or so cities with lower taxes).

This is the perfect justification for raising taxes.

You know what, our personal income is also higher than most other places in Canada. We should all take wage cuts to go along with property tax increases because that makes a lot of sense too.

[Guillermo]

^^i was trying to say that people should stop complaining about taxes in calgary... there is already plenty of justification for raising taxes (like potholes and sand all over the roads or overspending the snow removal budget year after year after year).

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by dirtsniffer
How could we make the tunnel for less?

North/South tunnel where McCall Way is right now would be 1/2 the length of the current East/West project right now. (And therefore much less money as well) Would also be usable by more than just the N.E.'ies


Originally posted by badatusrnames


Sure, but man, I don't know if I can trust City Council to actually spend it properly.

:werd:

My current property taxes are $2100/year. Personally, I would have NO PROBLEM with them being $3000/year, IF the extra taxes went to things the city actually needs, and not towards any Druh Farrel pet projects.

[hampstor]

Originally posted by Guillermo
^^i was trying to say that people should stop complaining about taxes in calgary... there is already plenty of justification for raising taxes (like potholes and sand all over the roads or overspending the snow removal budget year after year after year).

I dislike the tax-increase button being pushed every time there's a deficiency. I have a hard time believing that any tax increase is mostly go to things like road repair and snow removal. The incremental dollars will get allocated based on priorities, such as the tunnel. It's entirely possible that we'll end up with a tax increase that offers no additional value other than going straight towards the tunnel.

It's not always a revenue problem. Sometimes, it's an expense problem.

[syritis]

Originally posted by dirtsniffer
Man, I had a hard time following that article. It seemed like it was translated from morse code. OP, whats the opposite of spending on local projects? Wouldn't building the airport tunnel be an example of this? If you referenced the finger trap bridge it would make more sense i think. How could we make the tunnel for less? are you a city planner or a civil engineer?

finger trap bridge was mostly built in France (i think) and is now way over budget do to the shotty construction.

airport tunnel . i agree with tik toc. the north south mcCall way just makes more sense. but now b/c of all the public forum/open house discussion BS it now going to cost 400m as opposed to the 260m (i think) it was originally planned to cost.

and nenshi is more worried about being the grand marshal for the gay pride parade and sitting on twitter all day. he even threw the calgary sun under the bus for getting a financial number wrong even though the sun really put what little rep they have into promoting the under dog into office.

i can't wait for the next election.

[spikerS]

hey, the popular uninformed vote put Nenshi in office because it was the cool thing to do on facebook. This is what happens, and now we are stuck with it.

I swear there should be an IQ test, or at least a "how informedare you?" test before you get your ballot. Oh to dream...

[CUG]

I don't mind paying more taxes if our quality of life improves. It's not though. Things like the grass is only being cut within the last month, terrible roads, transit, traffic. Council needs to grow some balls and annex more land for more lanes in and out of downtown and around town.

[1barA4]

Completely off-topic: Jelly, the gourmet doughnut place, has a doughnut called "The Nenshi".

Upon seeing the menu, another customer commented "So...does it actually cost double the listed price and when I open the box there's nothing inside?" :rofl:

[dimi]

Wtf is up with these confusing thread titles nowadays.

http://www.podcastingnews.com/content/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/prince-purple-rain.jpg

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by 1barA4
Completely off-topic: Jelly, the gourmet doughnut place, has a doughnut called "The Nenshi".

Upon seeing the menu, another customer commented "So...does it actually cost double the listed price and when I open the box there's nothing inside?" :rofl:

:rofl:

#1, it's Rick Bell and Sun media, so the article having a right tilt isn't that surprising.

#2, If taking tax break from the province so we don't have tax increase is fine by me. If the province want to buy votes via tax cuts, they should have done it via income tax cuts and not city transfers.

Purple prince at least provide a better optic of being lean that fucking Bronco. Bronco is the post boy of indiscretion spending, especially on himself and his personal holding and businesses.

[syritis]

Originally posted by Xtrema
Purple prince at least provide a better optic of being lean that fucking Bronco. Bronco is the post boy of indiscretion spending, especially on himself and his personal holding and businesses.

bronco's first time he did alright in my mind, he may have pissed everyone off but he got shit done. (lots of road, transit and city infrastructure upgrades)

in his second term he just pissed everyone off. the only person that benefited was himself. he literally eff'd the entire city and walked away when he spent and absurd amount of money on the SW train section. tearing up one of calgary's best recreation areas (milenium park) instead of listening to the city wanting the SE LRT.

nenshi just hasn't done anything. he finally inked the airport tunnel which should have been done 6 months ago!

[Khyron]

The mayor is not the bloody emperor. He doesn't have much more power to push things though than anyone else on council.

And the funding model for cities is absurd. If it was a % based on income then we wouldn't see increases every cycle. But because it's more or less fixed on property values you have to keep increasing.

Scrap property tax, increase provincial income tax by 2-3% and then give cities 4-5%. (%'s pulled out of my ass, I have no idea what actuals would be)

I assume all the Nenshi haters think Barb would have changed the world by now?

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by Khyron
Scrap property tax, increase provincial income tax by 2-3% and then give cities 4-5%. (%'s pulled out of my ass, I have no idea what actuals would be)

May be a bit tough as I can think of many ways to get into a million dollar home with no taxable income to show.

or slum lords with multiple properties that has less income than an engineer working in an oil and gas company.

I think collecting per property is still right thing to do although not as efficient as income tax.

The only inequality of this model is established neighborhood (20+ years) with paid for infrastructure have higher property value and taxes are the ones subsidizing new neighborhoods who is spending all the capital and paying less tax. I don't think that's a fair model. Meanwhile, developers are using affordability to blackmail the city to keep the sprawl going and profiting from taxpayers.

[dirtsniffer]

^ i thought nenshi was going to try to curb sprawl?
syritis thinks that nenshi should have had the airport tunnel deal inked 2 months after he took office, cut him some slack

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by dirtsniffer
^ i thought nenshi was going to try to curb sprawl?
syritis thinks that nenshi should have had the airport tunnel deal inked 2 months after he took office, cut him some slack

He did what he could but bow to pressure and can't negoiate a better deal.

http://www.globaltvcalgary.com/Calgary+homes+cost+more/4793135/story.html

The development fee is doubled but still half of what's needed. Taxpayers still subsidized $15K for every home built in the city which I believe isn't right.

If the city charges $30K and builder pass the charge along, what's the big deal? List it like a GST or recycling fee on electronics.

Those $ would be better used on other subsidized housing projects instead of helping private ownership.

[syritis]

What happened was that the city passed the cost of roads, sidewalks and streetlights onto the land developers. Hoping they would build smaller more compact communities. Instead these developers opted to move outside of city limits eeffectively increasing urban sprawl and lowering Calgary's potential income.

My thoughts were is improve traffic flow so travelling further wouldn't take longer. This is accomplished by picking high volume traffic routes. Such as macleod, center st, mcknight, and/or 17ave and over engineering the shit outta them so that when the projects are completed years later. The road can handle enough traffic flow for the now higher volume and can still ease the pressure on surrounding smaller roads.

[dirtsniffer]

but you want them to still be as cheap as possible right?

[codetrap]

Originally posted by Xtrema

If the city charges $30K and builder pass the charge along, what's the big deal? List it like a GST or recycling fee on electronics.

Those $ would be better used on other subsidized housing projects instead of helping private ownership.

Except that $30k is going to cost another 10k over the life of the mortgage for most people. Not to mention that the builders will invariably add on a "handling fee" to make the payment to the city. Or, the city could take that "subsidized" 12k, add another property tax of $2500/a per house that will be paid back essentially in 4.8 years, and then it's all gravy after that. I wouldn't mind an investment that cost me 12k, had the principle fully paid back in 5 years, and then earned me an additional $2500+ in perpetuity after that.

Just sayin..

[Guillermo]

Originally posted by syritis
My thoughts were is improve traffic flow so travelling further wouldn't take longer. This is accomplished by picking high volume traffic routes. Such as macleod, center st, mcknight, and/or 17ave and over engineering the shit outta them so that when the projects are completed years later. The road can handle enough traffic flow for the now higher volume and can still ease the pressure on surrounding smaller roads.

i agree, but this would NEVER happen in Calgary. Here, people would prefer to "live on the cheap" and forget about what's going to happen tomorrow. most of our current infrastructure was designed for a city of <100,000, and even our larger roads are mostly temporary retrofits of existing under-sized projects (e.g. glenmore trail, southern crowchild). also, any long-term projects face stiff opposition from the majority who would prefer to save a few hundred bucks a year (a drop in the bucket) so they can over fertilize the 2"x2" square of grass in their shoddy, cookie-cutter subdivision back yard. :dunno:

the ring road, which likely won't be finished for another 10-15 years, should have been finished in the late 1970s or early 1980s.

and yet, people continue to bitch and moan about the airport tunnel project, and taxes in general. :rofl:

[codetrap]

Originally posted by Guillermo


i agree, but this would NEVER happen in Calgary. Here, people would prefer to &quot;live on the cheap&quot; and forget about what's going to happen tomorrow. most of our current infrastructure was designed for a city of &lt;100,000, and even our larger roads are mostly temporary retrofits of existing under-sized projects (e.g. glenmore trail, southern crowchild). also, any long-term projects face stiff opposition from the majority who would prefer to save a few hundred bucks a year (a drop in the bucket) so they can over fertilize the 2&quot;x2&quot; square of grass in their shoddy, cookie-cutter subdivision back yard. :dunno:

the ring road, which likely won't be finished for another 10-15 years, should have been finished in the late 1970s or early 1980s.

and yet, people continue to bitch and moan about the airport tunnel project, and taxes in general. :rofl:

Hey, I am probably wrong, but I can't think of a single city in the world that "over engineered the crap" out of a roadway at taxpayers expense, for a "few hundred a year" or a "small drop in the bucket".

You know what else, I know I'm in a bad mood today because of multiple reasons (like getting rained on etc).. but every time I see someone disparaging my "cookie cutter" home, I get a real strong urge to say "go fuck yourself".

I would love to buy a nice acreage with a custom built zero energy home built into a hillside with a mountain view, but I don't have a few million dollars lying around to accommodate that. So, in the meanwhile, I'll live in my nice 9 year old house that I've put a lot of work into, with my moderately landscaped yard with its raised flower beds and nice green grass. It's not huge, but it's what I could afford without borrowing to the hilt. I've customized it to reflect my lifestyle, and in a large part, myself. I have a strong emotional bond with my home. It's my first house, and I'm put a lot of time, energy and love into turning it into a more than just a house. It's my Home.

I tried living in a apartment in high density housing. I got tired of the hookers fighting with their pimps. I got tired of the gunfights between drug dealers. I got tired of the fucking drug dealers & homeless people hanging around all the time. I got tired of the traffic noise, and the sirens, and the fucking constant stink of curry and other aromatics that come with living in a condo. So I bought a "cookie cutter house", where I don't have to listen to some fucktard screaming it out with his whore girlfriend at 3 in the morning two floors down.

My home is in an area where I haven't seen more than 4 police cars in 6 years drive by. The last time I heard a siren was when my neighbor across the street gave birth to her son before she could make it to the car. Where I can sit in my garage and actually get to know my neighbors.. where I HAVE a garage. Also not having to answer to a condo board, or pay condo fees, or have to worry about some fucking retard deciding to have a campfire in his bathtub while stoned out of his tree on meth at 3:15am. (true story)

So, I understand that for the most part you are a pretty ok guy, and that this rant really is quite over the top, please don't take it too personally. However, as far as disparaging my "cookie cutter" Home, my decision to buy it and live here and support "urban sprawl", please understand how deeply I feel about this topic, and that I mean this truly from the bottom of my heart..

Go ... Fuck ... Yourselves ...

There.. I feel better now. Thanks beyond.. as usual. You have have delivered in spades.

[CapnCrunch]

Originally posted by codetrap


Hey, I am probably wrong, but I can't think of a single city in the world that &quot;over engineered the crap&quot; out of a roadway at taxpayers expense, for a &quot;few hundred a year&quot; or a &quot;small drop in the bucket&quot;.

You know what else, I know I'm in a bad mood today because of multiple reasons (like getting rained on etc).. but every time I see someone disparaging my &quot;cookie cutter&quot; home, I get a real strong urge to say &quot;go fuck yourself&quot;.

I would love to buy a nice acreage with a custom built zero energy home built into a hillside with a mountain view, but I don't have a few million dollars lying around to accommodate that. So, in the meanwhile, I'll live in my nice 9 year old house that I've put a lot of work into, with my moderately landscaped yard with its raised flower beds and nice green grass. It's not huge, but it's what I could afford without borrowing to the hilt. I've customized it to reflect my lifestyle, and in a large part, myself. I have a strong emotional bond with my home. It's my first house, and I'm put a lot of time, energy and love into turning it into a more than just a house. It's my Home.

I tried living in a apartment in high density housing. I got tired of the hookers fighting with their pimps. I got tired of the gunfights between drug dealers. I got tired of the fucking drug dealers &amp; homeless people hanging around all the time. I got tired of the traffic noise, and the sirens, and the fucking constant stink of curry and other aromatics that come with living in a condo. So I bought a &quot;cookie cutter house&quot;, where I don't have to listen to some fucktard screaming it out with his whore girlfriend at 3 in the morning two floors down.

My home is in an area where I haven't seen more than 4 police cars in 6 years drive by. The last time I heard a siren was when my neighbor across the street gave birth to her son before she could make it to the car. Where I can sit in my garage and actually get to know my neighbors.. where I HAVE a garage. Also not having to answer to a condo board, or pay condo fees, or have to worry about some fucking retard deciding to have a campfire in his bathtub while stoned out of his tree on meth at 3:15am. (true story)

So, I understand that for the most part you are a pretty ok guy, and that this rant really is quite over the top, please don't take it too personally. However, as far as disparaging my &quot;cookie cutter&quot; Home, my decision to buy it and live here and support &quot;urban sprawl&quot;, please understand how deeply I feel about this topic, and that I mean this truly from the bottom of my heart..

Go ... Fuck ... Yourselves ...

There.. I feel better now. Thanks beyond.. as usual. You have have delivered in spades.

:rofl: Flawless.

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by CapnCrunch


:rofl: Flawless.

:werd:

I'd also like to add... ALL communities were cookie-cutter when they were built. You can see it when you really look. Even my 1950's neighborhood was, but it took several decades for the trees to grow large, and people to do different things to their houses.

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by codetrap

So, I understand that for the most part you are a pretty ok guy, and that this rant really is quite over the top, please don't take it too personally. However, as far as disparaging my &quot;cookie cutter&quot; Home, my decision to buy it and live here and support &quot;urban sprawl&quot;, please understand how deeply I feel about this topic, and that I mean this truly from the bottom of my heart..

Go ... Fuck ... Yourselves ...

There.. I feel better now. Thanks beyond.. as usual. You have have delivered in spades.

I'm fine with you supporting urban sprawl so long as you're wiling to accept the price of the exponential costs such neighbourhoods add to the city. If you don't, go fuck yourself.

[cam_wmh]

Originally posted by codetrap


Hey, I am probably wrong, but I can't think of a single city in the world that &quot;over engineered the crap&quot; out of a roadway at taxpayers expense, for a &quot;few hundred a year&quot; or a &quot;small drop in the bucket&quot;.

You know what else, I know I'm in a bad mood today because of multiple reasons (like getting rained on etc).. but every time I see someone disparaging my &quot;cookie cutter&quot; home, I get a real strong urge to say &quot;go fuck yourself&quot;.

I would love to buy a nice acreage with a custom built zero energy home built into a hillside with a mountain view, but I don't have a few million dollars lying around to accommodate that. So, in the meanwhile, I'll live in my nice 9 year old house that I've put a lot of work into, with my moderately landscaped yard with its raised flower beds and nice green grass. It's not huge, but it's what I could afford without borrowing to the hilt. I've customized it to reflect my lifestyle, and in a large part, myself. I have a strong emotional bond with my home. It's my first house, and I'm put a lot of time, energy and love into turning it into a more than just a house. It's my Home.

I tried living in a apartment in high density housing. I got tired of the hookers fighting with their pimps. I got tired of the gunfights between drug dealers. I got tired of the fucking drug dealers &amp; homeless people hanging around all the time. I got tired of the traffic noise, and the sirens, and the fucking constant stink of curry and other aromatics that come with living in a condo. So I bought a &quot;cookie cutter house&quot;, where I don't have to listen to some fucktard screaming it out with his whore girlfriend at 3 in the morning two floors down.

My home is in an area where I haven't seen more than 4 police cars in 6 years drive by. The last time I heard a siren was when my neighbor across the street gave birth to her son before she could make it to the car. Where I can sit in my garage and actually get to know my neighbors.. where I HAVE a garage. Also not having to answer to a condo board, or pay condo fees, or have to worry about some fucking retard deciding to have a campfire in his bathtub while stoned out of his tree on meth at 3:15am. (true story)

So, I understand that for the most part you are a pretty ok guy, and that this rant really is quite over the top, please don't take it too personally. However, as far as disparaging my &quot;cookie cutter&quot; Home, my decision to buy it and live here and support &quot;urban sprawl&quot;, please understand how deeply I feel about this topic, and that I mean this truly from the bottom of my heart..

Go ... Fuck ... Yourselves ...

There.. I feel better now. Thanks beyond.. as usual. You have have delivered in spades.

lol. I getcha. I grew up in middle-upper class suburbia. I'm at that stage where I appreciate the walk to downtown & the closeness that my condo provides. Love the meth story. Sounds like it was quite the building.

The problem is those of your ilk, are grossly higher in numbers proportionately in Calgary than elsewhere. Ruralites moving to the big prairie city, bringing their small town values (my parents). Our city's population density (230 people per sq/km) is tiny compared to say Toronto. (4,000 people per sq/km)

As Xtrema mentioned suburban developments are subsidized by the city's tax payers as a whole. Remove that subsidy, and population density should increase & city costs decrease (per pop). For example road maintainence. How much more does a Calgarian need to spend to receive the same level of snow removal, and street cleaning as Toronto? (plus their federal transfer dollar favourtism grr)

Can any macro-econ majors speak to flipping the subsidy from suburbia to residential developments within the beltline? ie; 10 miles from center?

[codetrap]

Originally posted by cam_wmh

Our city's population density (230 people per sq/km) is tiny compared to say Toronto. (4,000 people per sq/km)


2006 Numbers:

Calgary's Population Density is 1,360.2 ppl/km2 (726.50/km2)
City of Toronto 3,972.4 ppl/km2 (630km2)
Greater Toronto Area 866.1 ppl/km2 (5,903.6/km2)


kertejud2: Have you ever seen me complain about my property taxes? Never. Not once.

[HiTempguy1]

GTA would need to be compared to Calgary's metropolitan area me-thinks (Airdrie etc).

[cam_wmh]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1
GTA would need to be compared to Calgary's metropolitan area me-thinks (Airdrie etc).

Exactly. GTA vs CMA.

2009 Numbers:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calgary_Region
According to Statistics Canada estimates dated July 1, 2009, the Calgary CMA surpassed the Ottawa-Gatineau CMA to become the fourth largest CMA in the country with an estimated population of 1,230,248.[4] However, an emerging trend of out-migration[5] may return the Calgary CMA to its previous ranking.


The total area of the Calgary CMA is 5,107 square kilometres (1,972 sq mi), which makes it the second largest CMA in Alberta in terms of area behind the Edmonton CMA.

240 people per sq km. Further, those CMA bedroom communities do not nearly contribute to the City's taxes and infrastructure as it's own inhabitants do.

There was actually an infamous Jeopardy question that brought it into play quite a few years back.

"This is the second largest city in the world by land size"
Number 1 being Mexico City.

[codetrap]

cam.. wow. Didn't know that.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by kertejud2


I'm fine with you supporting urban sprawl so long as you're wiling to accept the price of the exponential costs such neighbourhoods add to the city. If you don't, go fuck yourself.

:werd: I'm all for choices but these choices must accompany with true cost.

I'm all for taxes subsidizing education, transportation and essential services. But it should not be subsidizing lifestyles.

[cam_wmh]

Originally posted by Xtrema


:werd: I'm all for choices but these choices must accompany with true cost.

I'm all for taxes subsidizing education, transportation and essential services. But it should not be subsidizing lifestyles.

/thread

[Xtrema]

What happens is we already lost $20K for every family moving into the suburban home. Then these families starts to have kids and demand schools, buses to built in the neighborhood. When we can't make it in time, they start to cry about how school bus fees are going up and how their kids can't come home for lunch.

There are many neighborhoods with schools that's affordable. Stop making it everyone's problem for poor planning on your part.

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by codetrap

kertejud2: Have you ever seen me complain about my property taxes? Never. Not once.
Your mistake here is thinking that your current property tax rate is enough to pay the price.

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by codetrap
cam.. wow. Didn't know that.

The City of Edmonton (not the metro area either) is ~260sqkms. The city of Detroit, which at one point had almost 1.2 million people (IIRC) area? ~130sqkms.

And the funniest thing of all? OUR HOUSING PRICES, LAND PRICES, AND RENTAL PRICES are almost the most expensive in the country. LOLWTF?! :banghead: We have all of this cheap, inexpensive land, but somehow the smallest lot for sale in Red Deer is up to almost $130k for a new lot in a new subdivision (I can't even fathom what it is in Edmonton or Calgary). Absolutely insane!

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1
We have all of this cheap, inexpensive land, but somehow the smallest lot for sale in Red Deer is up to almost $130k for a new lot in a new subdivision (I can't even fathom what it is in Edmonton or Calgary). Absolutely insane!

Welcome to Alberta.

Where everyone is a millionaire and nothing is cheap.

http://www.babble.com/CS/blogs/strollerderby/archive/2008/10/04/scrooge-mcduck-explains-inflation.aspx

[codetrap]

Originally posted by kertejud2

Your mistake here is thinking that your current property tax rate is enough to pay the price.

Who ever said I think that? I know our property tax is cheap here.

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by codetrap


Who ever said I think that? I know our property tax is cheap here.
So how high do you think your property tax needs to go?

[dawerks]

It's a good move for Calgary.

[Redlyne_mr2]

Can we not just hold off on some of the projects until the rest of the huge jobs in the city are done (west LRT, south ring road, elbow trail, Crowchild lrt/overpass). This city reminds me of a Philipino with a bunch of Toyota projects on the go that never get finished. (no hate :D )

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2
Can we not just hold off on some of the projects until the rest of the huge jobs in the city are done (west LRT, south ring road, elbow trail, Crowchild lrt/overpass). This city reminds me of a Philipino with a bunch of Toyota projects on the go that never get finished. (no hate :D )

Other than the west LRT (I think SE LRT should have gone first, but unfortunately Bronco owns nothing in that quadrant that can be sold back to the city), I think all the projects are much needed. Especially how all of them tend to run long and overbudget.

[dino_martini]

Originally posted by syritis
in his second term he just pissed everyone off. the only person that benefited was himself. he literally eff'd the entire city and walked away when he spent and absurd amount of money on the SW train section. tearing up one of calgary's best recreation areas (milenium park) instead of listening to the city wanting the SE LRT.

Tearing up Millennium park? I've been by there quite a few times since the West LRT construction has started, and Millennium park looks the same it always has. :dunno:

I like Nenshi still, I think you have to give someone more than 10 months to make up your opinion on what sort of job they are doing.

Edit - Though I support any spending towards public transit and infastructure. Public Transit sucks in Calgary. No wonder parking downtown costs eleventy-billion dollars for one car.

[kenny]

Public transit will continue to suck in Calgary until we get a buried or elevated train system through downtown.

[dino_martini]

Originally posted by kenny
Public transit will continue to suck in Calgary until we get a buried or elevated train system through downtown.

That is in the works from what I understand. Subway tunnel underneath Stephen Ave. How long that will take is anybodies guess though.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by dino_martini


That is in the works from what I understand. Subway tunnel underneath Stephen Ave. How long that will take is anybodies guess though.

We probably need out city hall insider to fill us in. I think it's a possibility but there is no immediate plan. The fact that they spend so much redoing the surface station tells me that we are stuck with them for at least 20-25years.

SE and N LRT line will be done before they will revisit underground DT option.

[dino_martini]

Originally posted by Xtrema


We probably need out city hall insider to fill us in. I think it's a possibility but there is no immediate plan. The fact that they spend so much redoing the surface station tells me that we are stuck with them for at least 20-25years.

SE and N LRT line will be done before they will revisit underground DT option.

I thought the deal was that the newer lines would go underneath Stephen ave to reduce congestion along the 7 ave corridor.

But yes, we are probably looking years into the future. I don't think Calgary would have the capacity to deem a subway necessary for a little while at least.