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rob the knob
08-04-2011, 07:13 PM
What constitutes a physical assault in Toronto these days?



This would appear to be straightforward. If, for example, one individual punches another, surely that’s assault. Especially if the punch in question was witnessed. And photographed.

But as I learned firsthand on Sunday, a fist in the face doesn’t necessarily constitute assault in our increasingly culturally sensitive Toronto.

The details: I was at Yonge-Dundas Square with my nine-year-old son. We ate pizza. We drank bubble tea. And I used my new Canon camera to take photos of this neon shrine.

Suddenly, a woman wearing a hijab ran toward me. She was part of a group that included two women wearing full face-covering burkas. She was screaming: “We are Muslim! You do not take pictures of us!” (Odd. I can’t find the “no photos” rule in the Qur’an.)

I informed the lady I was in a public square in a democracy. I can actually take pictures of whomever I please.

And then: Ka-pow! Her fist collided with my face. Worse, she almost knocked my new camera from my hands.

My son and I were then surrounded by a mob of about 20 people, many of whom were speaking Arabic. One kept demanding I surrender my camera to him.

It was surreal. Was I in Toronto — or Riyadh?

I spotted a group of bicycle-mounted police officers. I burst through the mob with my son and made a beeline towards them. I told a Toronto Police officer what had happened and I wanted to press assault charges.

Better yet, a man and a woman came forward as eyewitnesses.

The 50-something couple, originally from Syria, told the police they had observed the entire affair and my allegations were true. The couple said they understood Arabic and knew what the mob was saying.

Spidey Senses

Alas, my Spidey Senses started to tingle when I overheard the questions being asked of the witnesses. “Was it a closed-fist punch or an open hand? Was it the front or the back of the hand?”

Huh? Physical contact had been made. Why did severity matter?

After the officer took my statement, he went over to the offending woman. Another constable was inexplicably miffed I was (legally) taking photos in the first place. The irony: Just above our heads a Toronto Police Service sphere was videotaping the activities.

The officer interrogated the woman. She was still hysterical. Good. The constable would encounter firsthand what I had been forced to deal with earlier.

The cop walked back to me. No charges would be laid, he said, because he believed the woman’s story — namely, she was merely trying to knock the camera out of my hands.

Got that? Apparently, attempted property damage is OK. If a face gets in the way of a would-be vandalizing fist... hey, accidents happen.

The Syrian eyewitnesses were speechless. I continued to plead my case.

Toronto Police cruisers are emblazoned with the slogan, “To serve and protect”. But increasingly, the unofficial slogan seems closer to, “F.I.D.O.” (“Forget It; Drive On.”)

The fact we have Islamists living amongst us who despise western values isn’t news. But surely you can’t just sock someone in the mouth.

Well, apparently you can — as long as the intent of the aggressor was merely to inflict property damage.

World’s upside-down. Just thought you should know.

-Menzies is a freelance writer in Toronto

rob the knob
08-04-2011, 07:14 PM
here is the link
http://www.torontosun.com/2011/08/02/yonge-dundas-smackdown

what you guys thinks? theres lots of discussion all over the internet about this

AndyL
08-04-2011, 07:16 PM
Also well covered on adler; this is one of his regulars - the menzoid...

Does it surprise anyone? Especially in toronto?

dirtsniffer
08-04-2011, 07:21 PM
charge the bitch, and if she isnt canadian deport her ass

v2kai
08-04-2011, 07:22 PM
Originally posted by dirtsniffer
charge the bitch, and if she isnt canadian deport her ass

i support that motion

TeamBestBud
08-04-2011, 07:36 PM
I think he got off easy. You never know, she could've really blown up.

Ven
08-04-2011, 07:39 PM
Looking forward to the video.

revelations
08-04-2011, 07:52 PM
Welcome to Toronto.... :facepalm:

JustGo
08-04-2011, 08:02 PM
Sucks to be that guy.

For assault, you have to prove the offenders intent. So if no intent to hurt him, the assault charge is gone.

And unfortunately, 'attempted property damage' is not a crime. It should be, but it's not. In order for a property damage charge, there must be.... well, damage to the property.

So technically, there are no charges that would be sustained in court.

Not saying it's right, just saying how it is.

The guy really has no legal leg to stand on, and the officers hands were tied. This isn't a case of them 'deciding not to charge', it's a case of our crappy legal system hog tying common sense.

rob the knob
08-04-2011, 08:07 PM
why did the lady not allow pictures of muslims?

Dilmah
08-04-2011, 08:12 PM
Post their pictures.

bituerbo
08-04-2011, 08:16 PM
Slap her in the face as hard as he can with the back of his hand:
"I was just trying to knock the burka off her face to identify the perpetrator".

sneek
08-04-2011, 08:24 PM
Originally posted by bituerbo
Slap her in the face as hard as he can with the back of his hand:
"I was just trying to knock the burka off her face to identify the perpetrator".

:rofl: :rofl:

TomcoPDR
08-04-2011, 08:34 PM
Originally posted by Dilmah
Post their pictures.

http://www.iconophilia.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/muslim-ladies-group-photo-niqab.jpg

Taking pics = Looks allowable to me :dunno:

Maybe she just has the hots for you OP

broken_legs
08-04-2011, 08:55 PM
heh?

If the police don't press charges what does that mean? Can this man not still hire a lawyer and have charges brought against her?

xxviet
08-04-2011, 09:06 PM
Originally posted by TomcoPDR


http://www.iconophilia.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/muslim-ladies-group-photo-niqab.jpg

Taking pics = Looks allowable to me :dunno:

Maybe she just has the hots for you OP

if i was a white guy in the background and went to punch the dude in white with the camera ...instant racism

adidas
08-04-2011, 09:13 PM
nvm

rx7boi
08-04-2011, 10:13 PM
damn, i clicked this thread hoping it was you who got punched

revelations
08-04-2011, 10:43 PM
Originally posted by JustGo
For assault, you have to prove the offenders intent. So if no intent to hurt him, the assault charge is gone.


If I accidentally punched someone in the head as hard as possible (eg someone who is being an annoying ass to me in a club), is that also a non-assault ?

BerserkerCatSplat
08-04-2011, 11:20 PM
Originally posted by bituerbo
Slap her in the face as hard as he can with the back of his hand:
"I was just trying to knock the burka off her face to identify the perpetrator".

Hah! :rofl:

JustGo
08-05-2011, 05:54 AM
Originally posted by revelations


If I accidentally punched someone in the head as hard as possible (eg someone who is being an annoying ass to me in a club), is that also a non-assault ? That's not a very believable excuse. You would need a realistic defense.

LollerBrader
08-05-2011, 07:56 AM
The tone of the article suggests a pre-existing anti-muslim bias.

I can't help but wonder if there's more to this story.

RY213
08-05-2011, 08:04 AM
Originally posted by rx7boi
damn, i clicked this thread hoping it was you who got punched

Me too! I was going to say that judging by some of the OP's posts on here he probably deserved it...

Sugarphreak
08-05-2011, 08:26 AM
...

dirtsniffer
08-05-2011, 08:33 AM
^^ you have no right to privacy in public. and the dude was with his young son

gqmw
08-05-2011, 08:43 AM
Originally posted by Sugarphreak
Considering it is the Sun reporting it, I'd say there is way more.

A more likely scenario:
Border line racist guy ensures there are police and acquaintances to be witnesses nearby and starts snapping pictures of the men and women up close to provoke a reaction; they react, one of the woman pushes his fancy new camera he shoves in her face aside. He cries like a baby, runs out to the police and asks them to press assault charges.... entire group of people tell them he is a shit disturber and all they did was push the camera side when he shoved it in their face.

Considering he is a media "free Lance writer", he is probably a piece of shit trying to make news.

I've encountered media first hand a few times now here in Calgary; the first was at the premiers stampede breakfast a few years ago when somebody made a disturbance... they all rushed in like a pack of dogs, jumping tables and knocking people down trying to get a picture. I had just gotten my breakfast after waiting in line forever and was putting some syrup on it... one of the media assholes stepped on it and knocked my coffee over in the process. The second time they were setting up a camera in front of my apartment building entrance, the manager (very nice girl btw) asked them not to block the door and the guy started going off about how she has no rights and openly started swearing at her. Anytime you try to fight back they frame you publically to look like the bad guy.

I get pretty close to smashing cameras even when I am not the target, I wouldn't be surprised if that is what happened here as well.

They are fucking assholes with no respect for people’s privacy or rights, this guys sounds like just another asshole trying to sell a story.

I doubt he'd be trying something like that with his kid around...

Secondly, he's taking pictures of a shrine in a public place, that is not violating privacy or rights.

You just sound like you have a biased view on media people.

Boat
08-05-2011, 08:48 AM
Wow. She didn't have to explode like that.

desi112
08-05-2011, 08:49 AM
I dunno, if the story is factual, fuck the cops and ship these people off.

but if its the scenerio sugarphreak described fuck this ass hole.

-relk-
08-05-2011, 08:51 AM
Originally posted by LollerBrader
The tone of the article suggests a pre-existing anti-muslim bias.

I can't help but wonder if there's more to this story.

I would probably have an anti-muslim tone too if this happened to me. Assuming this is all true... which we will never know.

Sugarphreak
08-05-2011, 09:20 AM
...

dirtsniffer
08-05-2011, 09:27 AM
I have heard stories from travelers about being chased outta town for taking pictures.

the article said he had witnesses saying they saw her punch him, it never mentions what kind of camera or lense was in use.

i hope to see you in public one day so i can take pictures of you. and guess what you can do about it, nothing!

dandia89
08-05-2011, 09:49 AM
Originally posted by -relk-


I would probably have an anti-muslim tone too if this happened to me. Assuming this is all true... which we will never know.

really? you're gonna have an anti-muslim tone after ONE muslim fucks with you?

a white kid yelled out racist remark to me one night when he thought i was stealing his cab, does that mean i'm gonna write an article in a tone that all white people are racist? go get fucked.

gretz
08-05-2011, 10:15 AM
Originally posted by dandia89


really? you're gonna have an anti-muslim tone after ONE muslim fucks with you?

a white kid yelled out racist remark to me one night when he thought i was stealing his cab, does that mean i'm gonna write an article in a tone that all white people are racist? go get fucked.

If you had never really come into contact with purple people, but one kicked you in the nuts because you don't share the same favorite color, would you have an anti-purple-persons tone after that encounter?

Someone yelling a racist remark and someone punching you in the face for doing nothing remotely racist (taking a pic).... good comparison

dandia89
08-05-2011, 10:21 AM
so you're saying that this guy has never encountered a muslim? you're an idiot if you're gonna judge an entire group on one persons action regardless if you have contact with one or a million of them.

gretz
08-05-2011, 10:42 AM
Originally posted by dandia89
so you're saying that this guy has never encountered a muslim? you're an idiot if you're gonna judge an entire group on one persons action regardless if you have contact with one or a million of them.

How many muslims should he have encountered to make a judgement?

I bet out of the millions of different people, nationalities, race, etc... rob has encountered in his life, he hasn't been surrounded, punched, etc... for snapping a photo....

-relk-
08-05-2011, 11:01 AM
Originally posted by dandia89


really? you're gonna have an anti-muslim tone after ONE muslim fucks with you?

a white kid yelled out racist remark to me one night when he thought i was stealing his cab, does that mean i'm gonna write an article in a tone that all white people are racist? go get fucked.

I did not say I would have it for long, but for a short period of time after I would most likely. Considering this article was probably written close to when the event took place, I am not suprised it was written the way it was.

I am by no means racist, and have some friends that are muslim and wear burkas regularily (well maybe not full face burkas but "head dresses"). I was simply trying to state that the author was probably in a hot headed state of mind. I guess I just used the wrong words.

And I am sure it is not just me that feels this way, considering that there are so many articles in the media that do not necessarily put the muslim people or faith in a good light. Being that this is the most information most of us Canadians get towards muslims, it is no wonder some people would think that way. Lucky for me I know that not all muslims are bad. Unfortunately I do not know much of the differences between Middle Eastern faiths and apologize if I have offended anyone, or confused any of the religions or people with another (namely the difference between Muslim and Islamic).

Seth1968
08-05-2011, 11:19 AM
Menzoid is the "side kick" or "nemesis" of talk show host Charles Adler on 770 CHQR.

Menzoid is well known for creating scenarios to prove his point.

He's pointing out that killing your child is a crime in Canada...FOR NOW.

Get it?

Seth1968
08-05-2011, 11:44 AM
...

Kavy
08-05-2011, 02:13 PM
I can completely see how this went down.

He was taking pictures of the shrine and caught some Muslims in the pictures as they walked by. He continued taking pictures at a reasonable distance.

He felt a shadow or saw out of his peripheral someone walking up and lowered his camera to see who was walking up just as the individual went to swipe it away from in front of his face (since thats how we use DSLR's we dont shoot from the hip or out our ass) and in turn hit him in the face.

Gang vocal rape ensues he fears for his welfare and that of his child's so he B-Lines for cops.

Regularly Incoherent poster puts story on beyond, Muslims defend what happened while the tinfoil hat committee goes crazy at the injustice.

The only thing missing is a NE joke somewhere.

HiTempguy1
08-05-2011, 02:43 PM
Originally posted by Kavy

The only thing missing is a NE joke somewhere.

Done and done. The NE is a joke in and of itself, so simply MENTIONING it works :bigpimp:

G-Suede
08-05-2011, 02:48 PM
Originally posted by JustGo
For assault, you have to prove the offenders intent. So if no intent to hurt him, the assault charge is gone.

So, by that logic, an individual could spit in another's face, but since there was no intent to harm, no charges would follow. Good to know.

Gabe182
08-05-2011, 02:55 PM
Originally posted by TeamBestBud
I think he got off easy. You never know, she could've really blown up.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Destinova403
08-06-2011, 09:41 AM
Originally posted by JustGo
Sucks to be that guy.

For assault, you have to prove the offenders intent. So if no intent to hurt him, the assault charge is gone.

And unfortunately, 'attempted property damage' is not a crime. It should be, but it's not. In order for a property damage charge, there must be.... well, damage to the property.

So technically, there are no charges that would be sustained in court.

Not saying it's right, just saying how it is.

The guy really has no legal leg to stand on, and the officers hands were tied. This isn't a case of them 'deciding not to charge', it's a case of our crappy legal system hog tying common sense.

It wouldnt be Assault... it would be battery. Assault is technically the threat of violence, and battery is the actual physical contact. If you tap someone on the shoulder TECHNICALLY you are committing battery from a legal standpoint.

JustGo
08-06-2011, 02:36 PM
Originally posted by Destinova403


It wouldnt be Assault... it would be battery. Assault is technically the threat of violence, and battery is the actual physical contact. If you tap someone on the shoulder TECHNICALLY you are committing battery from a legal standpoint.
If you live in the USA. There is no such charge as Battery in Canada.

JustGo
08-06-2011, 02:46 PM
Originally posted by G-Suede


So, by that logic, an individual could spit in another's face, but since there was no intent to harm, no charges would follow. Good to know.
That's not 'logic', that's the definition of the charge.

And you'd still be incorrect, when I say she had 'no intent to hurt him', that was a situational based statement. I never said 'no intent to harm'. Spitting in someone's face intentionally could very well be proven there was intent to harm... via bacteria or disease. You don't think spit is harmless, do you?

yipb
08-06-2011, 03:32 PM
Originally posted by JustGo

That's not 'logic', that's the definition of the charge.

And you'd still be incorrect, when I say she had 'no intent to hurt him', that was a situational based statement. I never said 'no intent to harm'. Spitting in someone's face intentionally could very well be proven there was intent to harm... via bacteria or disease. You don't think spit is harmless, do you?

so i have a question,

theres this "car" i dont like and im about to go mess it up. silly owner decides to stand in front of the car as i start beating it with a baseball bat. but i never land a hit on the car, but now the owner is bruised up.

am i a free man?

JustGo
08-06-2011, 03:58 PM
Originally posted by yipb


so i have a question,

theres this "car" i dont like and im about to go mess it up. silly owner decides to stand in front of the car as i start beating it with a baseball bat. but i never land a hit on the car, but now the owner is bruised up.

am i a free man? Depends on if the judge believes you.

CUG
08-06-2011, 10:31 PM
Originally posted by LollerBrader
The tone of the article suggests a pre-existing anti-muslim bias.

I can't help but wonder if there's more to this story. Or if it even happened. That guy is a notorious shit disturber.

Destinova403
08-06-2011, 10:38 PM
Originally posted by JustGo

If you live in the USA. There is no such charge as Battery in Canada.

My bad, you're right. It would be Assault under section 265 which says "(a) without the consent of another person, he applies force intentionally to that other person, directly or indirectly" and if intent could not be proven, it could be argued that the journalist had reasonable grounds to feel threatened. It would only be a summary charge though and wouldn't really result in much.