plumbing advice: POLY B, is this stuff really that bad???

[canadian_hustla]

Ok, so we had a massive leak in our house and hired a plumber and he told us that we had pipes that were POLY B and apparently had to replace all of them. Interesting thing was that it was only leaking from one area. Wanted to re-do the whole house at $5k + labor. For those that are familiar with this stuff we have copper fittings.

Apparently not replacing all the POLY B is like ignoring a ticking time bomb.- is this stuff really that bad????

[benyl]

Yep, expect to have water leak after water leak.

[blitz]

5k for materials? For just supply lines? Shop around, that's ridiculous.

What kind of house, bungalow, 2 storey etc. How many bathrooms and where are they?

[canadian_hustla]

^
yeah that is what we thought.
4 bathrooms, 2 of them are culprits.... it did include installing brand new toilets.. :dunno: lol

[Maxt]

No , not that bad.. My house was built in 1990, and has no leaks at all on the poly b. The rate of incident for actual pipe failure is very low. The problems seem to be with workmanship and when plastic fittings were used with the poly b instead of copper fittings with poly b.
Also its been reported that high levels of chlorine make the pipe brittle and prone to cracking. You can reduce that risk by adding a carbon filter on your mainline in, to remove the chlorine.
I've seen pex, copper, and galvanized steel stuff fail to, nothing is a 100% guaranteed..

[benyl]

My parents have had 5 leaks in the house with Poly B.

It's never leaked at a fitting, it has always been with cracked pipes.

On one of them, I noticed a stress point, like someone may have pinched / kinked the line before install it. That is where it cracked open and leaked.

[C_Dave45]

My house has all Poly B. So far no problems. I've been here 10 years. There's around 150,000 houses in Alberta with Poly B

Alberta Municipal Affairs is aware of approximately four Poly-B failures in Alberta over the last 20 years. All were related to improper installation procedures rather than the materials.

http://www.municipalaffairs.alberta.ca/documents/ss/polyb.pdf

and more: http://www.albertapropertyinspection.com/poly%20b.pdf

The chlorine level would have to be much higher than the allowable level in our water systems in order to cause any breakdown of the pipes.

[Ven]

Few 20 year old houses with PolyB and no leaks at all.

[Maxt]

It depends on if you are municipal water on it with the chlorine. We have to continuously shock our water pretty hard to keep the bacteria level down. I have a 2 stage sediment/chlorine filter to knock out the chlorine, before it hits the poly b plumbing system. I have had to bypass it a few times to sterilize the house plumbing to get the bacteria count down at the tap. After I shock it, I give it a 2 hour flush just to reduce the chlorine levels.
Previous owner was shocking without a chlorine filter, that did worry me, but so far ok.

[mr5oh]

The house we just bought had poly B (Grey tubing) (Built in 1991)
Its a 2000 sqft bungalow and since I was doing a complete reno, I decided to rip out all the water lines and replace it with Pex tubing.

My plumber said that if I ran all the lines, he would just hook it up

since I was getting everything new (toilets, sinks etc) the only difference was he would have to build a new manifold in the basement.

Ended up using 760 feet of Pex. The old stuff was OK, but I figured we're this deep into a reno, may as well replace it for the added protection.

[Zero102]

My parents house has poly-b, they have had 3 water leaks and counting, all related to failed piping.

While it may be a workmanship failure and not a materials failure, just remember that probably the same guy did your entire house, so if its failing in one place.....

[Neil4Speed]

Its funny to see this thread right now. About 7 years ago we were having frequent leaks (one every 2-3 months or so), so due to the concern with a hot water pipe bursting and possible scaulding we replaced all the hot water piping with copper. As a massive regret, we didn't replace the cold water at the same time. The company that makes Poly B (IIRC Dupont?), had a class action which we were able to get some funds from.

We would regularly have leaks, about 2 a year with the cold piping between about 2005-10. We even had a regulator placed in about a year ago, as well as the water pressure reduced to very low levels (upstairs showers are trickles lol).

Last month we had 3 leaks in a week, All due to material failure, pinhole leaks in the Poly B piping itself. These were not at points of stress either - just random straight portions of the line.

At the end of this week we are having Mr.Rooter come in and replace all the cold water piping replaced. Estimated cost is about 6k.

Our house was built in 1987.

[SOAB]

my house was built in 1988 and we have this stuff everywhere as well.

i've had 2 leaks in my house. thankfully, it both happened inside my laundry room. both on straight runs with no kinks or anything visible.

after the second time, i changed out all the lines i could see in there to the pex stuff. haven't had a problem since then.

[legendboy]

PolyB in my house, never had a problem

[bspot]

My neighbours had a basement full of water thanks to this stuff.

[Darell_n]

Originally posted by Neil4Speed
We even had a regulator placed in about a year ago, as well as the water pressure reduced to very low levels (upstairs showers are trickles lol).

Last month we had 3 leaks in a week, All due to material failure, pinhole leaks in the Poly B piping itself. These were not at points of stress either - just random straight portions of the line.


Your regulator can also be causing the problem unless an expansion tank or pressure relief valve was installed at the same time. If you empty your hot water tank the pressure will build up in the lines as the cold water in the tank is heated. The regulator can prevent this pressure buildup from being directed back into the city supply and cause a leak in the house.

[canadian_hustla]

Originally posted by Neil4Speed
Its funny to see this thread right now. About 7 years ago we were having frequent leaks (one every 2-3 months or so), so due to the concern with a hot water pipe bursting and possible scaulding we replaced all the hot water piping with copper. As a massive regret, we didn't replace the cold water at the same time. The company that makes Poly B (IIRC Dupont?), had a class action which we were able to get some funds from.

We would regularly have leaks, about 2 a year with the cold piping between about 2005-10. We even had a regulator placed in about a year ago, as well as the water pressure reduced to very low levels (upstairs showers are trickles lol).

Last month we had 3 leaks in a week, All due to material failure, pinhole leaks in the Poly B piping itself. These were not at points of stress either - just random straight portions of the line.

At the end of this week we are having Mr.Rooter come in and replace all the cold water piping replaced. Estimated cost is about 6k.

Our house was built in 1987.


GROUP BUY? LOL

$6k is still too much. I am undecided as to whether we just replace the broken pipes or redo the whole house...

[SOAB]

is this your "forever" house? will you be doing any other reno's at the same time? any planned for the future?

i just replaced everything that i could see in my laundry room. i'm waiting one breaks behind drywall before i do the rest of the house... haha. or if i move first. :D

[Crymson]

I live in kind of a weird converted condo. The orginal building was build around 1988 with copper plumbing, but one of the units was converted into a basement suite in the mid 90's using Poly B and that unit has had pinhold leak after pinhole leak over the last year. It's really awful stuff, it just deteriorates and springs tiny ass leaks that are hard to find.

[Neil4Speed]

So just finished up all the work to go from Poly B to Pex. Total of Labour + Materials was about 4k, which I thought to be a pretty good deal considering the amount of time we had working on it.

We had it done through Mr.Rooter. They did a good job from what I can see. Just to prepare yourselves, this is an extremely messy job, get prepared for all of your things to be covered in drywall dust.

[rx7racerca]

Months after the OP, but PolyB is rubbish, plain and simple. Governments and the CSA have denied it is a problem, but 100's of millions have been awarded in lawsuits in the US, and provincial authorities and the CSA have a vested interest in playing down the problems here because they are fearful of the liability - it was allowed here long after the issues started arising in the States in the early 80's, so it's hard to make a case they couldn't and shouldn't have known better than to approve it here.

I've had 6 leaks in about as many years in my home, built in '87. All but one were failures of the pipe - and it wasn't a matter of exposure to UV, the cracks were internal and eventually burst out. Examination of the removed sections find no signs of external damage or crimping - it just doesn't hold together properly - material defect. The internal defects run for a meter or more at a time in sections I've removed, yet with no external sign until a pinhole leak quickly becomes a large burst - eventually, it just gives out. Add to that the acetal (grey plastic fittings) that are also prone to degradation or just plain stress cracking if any sort of sheer is applied to them, and yes, a home with PolyB is a ticking time bomb. All my neighbours have similar problems. The repair estimate the OP cited sounds pretty high for materials - I'm in the process of replacing as much of mine as I can, now that I have to remove part of my downstairs ceiling to deal with a leak outside the utility room

[Buster]

Woah...necro.

Has anybody replaced these since the last update? Is Mr. Rooter still the way to go?

Almost going final on a new house purchase, and the poly b in the house scares me. I might just have it replaced so I don't have to think about it- and perhaps even go about running some low voltage and data lines while I am at it.

[CompletelyNumb]

I like how there are more poly b failures reported in this thread than "Alberta municipal affairs" is aware of happening in all of Alberta. :nut:

[Khyron]

I had no leaks but saw patches of pex where the PO had repaired. Other houses in the area have had 2-3 leaks in the time I've been here. Pete the plumber quotes 3500 or so + any drywall repair.

So I replaced all the obviously visible lines (like garden hoses and the main runs) then used sharkbites to connect to the polyB that was mounted behind drywall.

Cost was maybe 50 for tools, 50 for fittings/clamps and 4 rolls of PEX in different sizes/colors. Garden hose lines done in an afternoon, and the main feeds done in another afternoon. Pro plumber did my feed from the basement to the upstairs bathroom when renovating so that one is completely clear.

If your basement ceiling is not dev'd then you can do the bulk of it yourself I think.

[98teg]

My house was built in 1994 and i have not had one pipe blow up.
I was told if the install was poorly done and if thd poly b was left in the sun then issues would develop

[The_Penguin]

Our house was built in '99 only 1 leak, during a reno, I removed a baseboard that had a brad through it into a pipe. Not even a dribble in 10 years until I pulled the brad out.

[Khyron]

Originally posted by 98teg
My house was built in 1994 and i have not had one pipe blow up.
I was told if the install was poorly done and if thd poly b was left in the sun then issues would develop

What color is it? Poly B is a dark grey. It's random failure - could be at a fitting, could just crack a pinhole mid straight run. The new stuff is PEX and it is ruined if left in UV (sunlight). But other than that it's solid. 1994 was probably PEX.

[98teg]

Its dark grey