Question about billing a client

[Mar]

I have a guy I work with and he subcontracts a lot of work to me, maybe $5000 - $10,000 a year from this one guy. For the very first time, he sent one of his clients (a woman) directly to me when they had an issue he couldn't fix for her.....or didn't have time.

Basically she had a website built on Joomla with a pile of plugins added to it and it was on a subdomain of www2.xxxxxxx.com so it wouldn't be live to the public unless they knew the subdomain and port it was on. So we agreed on an hourly rate and she said she'd pay for 3 hours. Great.

She first asked me to do it in the Joomla editor which became a huge pain in the ass and I ended up asking for the FTP login because I couldn't access the Javascript files from there even though I had already spent 4-5 hours trying to do it that way and actually did find the function responsible for the problem....or so I thought. She gave me the FTP login and it didn't work. I assume it was because I'm using Linux and Filezilla didn't like the subdomain, she said it worked fine on SmartFTP in Windows. So I got a friend's computer to try with SmartFTP, still didn't work. I even went as far to install Windows 7 on my desktop as a dual boot, then install SmartFTP and it STILL didn't work. Now I've been using FTP for over 10 years, this really would not work.

We sent a few more emails back and forth trying to get the FTP working, she wanted me to edit the files and send them back to her to upload, that wasn't going to work, eventually communication just stopped. I sent her a bill yesterday for the 3 hours (I actually worked over 5) and she's complaining I can't bill her because I didn't complete the work. She was actually very nice asking me to explain to her why I should be paid but thought I was get opinions before explaining this to her like this.

You think I should be paid? The time I did work on it was spent shuffling through Javascript functions in Firebug in Firefox. For anyone that's tried this, it's a nightmare but if you spend enough time in there, you can eventually find what you're looking for. FTP is way faster.

[theken]

You should be paid, but also did not fix the problem, to maintain customer relations and perhaps repeat, or word of mouth customers, you might have to bite the bullet, or give it another go.

[Type_S1]

If I was a client my reply would be "take me to court" considering from the sounds of it, and I know nothing about what you do, you didn't really do anything to help her problem? I might have read wrong though as I have no clue in what your talking about, I'm a computer noob LOL.

From your point it might just be worth it to bite the bullet considering word of mouth seems to get you a good chunk of business and you don't want a bad reputation from something so small.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[CompletelyNumb]

You spent that many hours trying to get an FTP login to work? Damn you're a patient man. I would have asked for her control panel login after 20 mintues.

I'd say you can bill for the time you spent debugging, but the FTP hours are yours to swallow.

[Mar]

Originally posted by CompletelyNumb
You spent that many hours trying to get an FTP login to work?
No, the time was spent sorting through functions in Firebug, a plugin for Firefox that lets you see all the code being executed on a page. I was trying to do whatever I could for her since the FTP login she gave me wasn't working.

[CompletelyNumb]

I was more referring to the lengths you went to get that FTP working (dual boot, friend...), not the time you billed. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

I am curious to know what the actual error you encountered when you tried to connect to FTP from different computers... my first impression was she had it improperly configured. Maybe that's why the work was sent to you in the first place? haha... :guns:

[GQBalla]

I understand you did work but did anything you do fix the issues or at least help out the issue?

[cde1966]

Sounds to me like you agreed to do the work and you would be paid for three hours to do it. If it takes you longer then three then you're out of luck. Lesson learned, next time don't agree on three hours up front, or at least after you couldn't get it fixed in two hours and you can see it will take longer then you should have stoped and cut your losses.
I don't think you can bill her for anything since you didn't fix it. If you fixed it then I could see you billing for five hours.

[PeterGTiR]

So let's say I want to buy a Transformer action figure through eBay. The action figure is listed within an auction and the description matches something that isn't within my collection. As I want to add the item to my collection, I decide to purchase the item as I can afford it. It arrives seven days later and the item received is different from the auction description: it's a Decepticon.

The end product is different from the terms. Would you pay for the Decepticon?

[gt2871r]

Originally posted by PeterGTiR
So let's say I want to buy a Transformer action figure through eBay. The action figure is listed within an auction and the description matches something that isn't within my collection. As I want to add the item to my collection, I decide to purchase the item as I can afford it. It arrives seven days later and the item received is different from the auction description: it's a Decepticon.

The end product is different from the terms. Would you pay for the Decepticon?

OP is providing a service onto an intangible item. I don't really think your analogy applies, it's not quite that clear cut.

[FraserB]

Originally posted by PeterGTiR
So let's say I want to buy a Transformer action figure through eBay. The action figure is listed within an auction and the description matches something that isn't within my collection. As I want to add the item to my collection, I decide to purchase the item as I can afford it. It arrives seven days later and the item received is different from the auction description: it's a Decepticon.

The end product is different from the terms. Would you pay for the Decepticon?

Completely different scenario.


Comes down to the wording of the original emails. If she said "I am paying you to fix x and x and x." Then you didn't complete the job and can only get partial payment for diagnosis etc... If she said something along the lines of "Can you take a crack at this for me", then she should be paying.

[v2kai]

Originally posted by FraserB


Completely different scenario.


Comes down to the wording of the original emails. If she said "I am paying you to fix x and x and x." Then you didn't complete the job and can only get partial payment for diagnosis etc... If she said something along the lines of "Can you take a crack at this for me", then she should be paying. :werd:

[Rat Fink]

.

[Mar]

Originally posted by CompletelyNumb
I was more referring to the lengths you went to get that FTP working (dual boot, friend...), not the time you billed. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

I am curious to know what the actual error you encountered when you tried to connect to FTP from different computers... my first impression was she had it improperly configured. Maybe that's why the work was sent to you in the first place? haha... :guns:
She knows what she's doing, she just couldn't figure out this javascript issue. Somehow she was connecting with the FTP and I couldn't. I think she was just sending me the wrong login or something. I really wanted to help her since I said I would get it done for her and I like to try everything possible. Plus I was curious whether or not it really would work in Windows.



Originally posted by GQBalla
I understand you did work but did anything you do fix the issues or at least help out the issue?
She sent me the javascript files I requested and I modified them and sent them back to her. Supposedly she uploaded them and it didn't fix the problem. At that point I told her I'd need the FTP login so I don't spent 10 days going through javascript functions in Firebug.


Originally posted by cde1966
Sounds to me like you agreed to do the work and you would be paid for three hours to do it. If it takes you longer then three then you're out of luck. Lesson learned, next time don't agree on three hours up front, or at least after you couldn't get it fixed in two hours and you can see it will take longer then you should have stoped and cut your losses.
I don't think you can bill her for anything since you didn't fix it. If you fixed it then I could see you billing for five hours.
I think you missed the point, I was only billing for 3 hours. I took a loss on the extra 2.



Originally posted by PeterGTiR
So let's say I want to buy a Transformer action figure through eBay. The action figure is listed within an auction and the description matches something that isn't within my collection. As I want to add the item to my collection, I decide to purchase the item as I can afford it. It arrives seven days later and the item received is different from the auction description: it's a Decepticon.

The end product is different from the terms. Would you pay for the Decepticon?
Oh, you're a funny one!



Originally posted by gt2871r
OP is providing a service onto an intangible item. I don't really think your analogy applies, it's not quite that clear cut.
I think he's referring to my very, very extensive collection of Generation 1 Transformers and my obvious addiction to collecting children's toys.


Originally posted by Rat Fink
Since you're not getting paid, go back in and reverse everything you did out of principal.
I didn't do anything. I found where I thought the problem was but couldn't get on the FTP to make the changes. I actually did do that to a guy once though. I did some work for a guy that lived in Rundle and he owed me $60 for some work. I went over there to pick it up and he tells me it shouldn't have taken me that long so he's only going to pay me $40. WTF? He doesn't get to decide that. So after completely fixing his totally fucked up site, I reversed everything and left it completely fucked up again. He left a voicemai on my phone saying he was going to find me and shoot me and kill me......I recorded it on my computer, I should find it and post it here.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[Strider]

Originally posted by Mar

Originally posted by Rat Fink
Since you're not getting paid, go back in and reverse everything you did out of principal.
I didn't do anything.

That should pretty much answer your question there.

If you're not desperate for the money, just suck it up.
If she goes complaining to your buddy who sent her to you, you might be burning that bridge too.

[Mar]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak


I'd take it right to the cops and have him charged with uttering threats.

Just out of curiousity... did you take the $40?

Ya, I knew it was going to be $40 or nothing.

[Mar]

Last argument FOR before I email her back.

She didn't want to give me the FTP at first so she asked me to just do the changes through the Joomla editor which is what I spent so much time trying to do. Then the FTP didn't work and she still asked me to go through the editor so I tried my best to get it fixed for her.

Still no dice? :dunno:

[FraserB]

You asked for more information from her to do your job and she said to keep trying the editor, at this point she must have known it was not going smoothly but she said nothing and told you to keep on the original course that was not working.

While you probably should have clarified at that point that you were progressing against the allotted hours with little to no headway, she shares some of the blame for telling you to keep at the original editor.

Call her up and say that you will be more than happy to provide a log of what has been attempted so the next tech has a solid starting point and you will settle the bill for 1.5hrs.

OR

Ask if she wants you to take another shot at it, say another 2 hours and if it is not solved by then you furnish a progress document for the next guy and you settle for the full 3 hours.

[crazieness]

You should discuss with her what you did in the 5 hours and come to a solution on a reasonable amount to settle for. You may not get paid for 3 or 5 hrs work, but if she is willing to pay you for 1.5 or 2, it's better than nothing.

If the agreement was you only get paid if you provide a solution, then you are SOL.

[sillysod]

This is something that you are going to take as a learning experience.

Next time something like this comes up, advise the client that there are some issues and get them to give you approval to proceed or drop it.

That way the client will have made the call and be responsible for the costs.

[Jason Lange]

I agree with sillysod, this was a cheap learning experience. Be glad it was only a few hours.