Porsche 991 To Last for 14 Years :O [Archive] - Beyond.ca - Car Forums

schocker

09-27-2011, 01:48 PM

From autoblog, reports say that the latest generation of 911, the 991 will last for 14 years, with a mid cycle refresh much like the 997 and 997.2. This sounds kind of crazy to me but who knows. At least honda will be impressed :rofl:
http://www.autoblog.com/2011/09/27/porsches-latest-911-to-last-fourteen-years-dowsized-turbo-engi/

The new 991-generation of the Porsche 911 is now upon us, with the Carrera and Carrera S coupes unveiled at the Frankfurt Motor Show. So what do you think? Because love it or hate it, it'll be around for a while; 14 years, if the latest reports prove accurate.

Also on porsche continuing to use manual transmission
http://www.autoblog.com/2011/09/23/porsche-committed-to-offering-manual-transmissions-as-long-as-th/

Purists take note: As long as customers ask for it, Porsche will offer the 911 with a manual transmission. This sigh of relief comes from the mouth of the company's CEO Matthias Muller, speaking with Motor Trend editor-in-chief Angus MacKenzie.............
While they were at it, Muller and MacKenzie also confirmed that the new 911 GT3 will remain a manual-only affair, superseding earlier reports and allaying fears that the beloved enthusiasts' favorite would lose a pedal for the clutch in favor of a second automated one.
m10-power, you are out of luck for the meantime.

Twin_Cam_Turbo

09-27-2011, 02:03 PM

That's a long fucking time for one model even with a refresh.

Neil4Speed

09-27-2011, 02:08 PM

Damn, they look amazing, including the interior (seems like they have picked pieces from the Panamera)

Xtrema

09-27-2011, 02:14 PM

Originally posted by schocker
At least honda will be impressed :rofl:

:rofl:

But really, I think 911 has been pretty much the same since 1998. Sure there are some cosmetic and tech upgrades along the way but 14 years isn't that long for a Porsche.

And the new 911 looks almost like the one it replaces.

rage2

09-27-2011, 02:30 PM

Originally posted by Xtrema
But really, I think 911 has been pretty much the same since 1998. Sure there are some cosmetic and tech upgrades along the way but 14 years isn't that long for a Porsche.
Maybe on the outside it looks the same. Now that I have a 996, I'm starting to realize how different (and better) a 997 is, and why 996's are so cheap yet 997's hold their value much better.

Cos

09-27-2011, 07:02 PM

Originally posted by Twin_Cam_Turbo
That's a long fucking time for one model even with a refresh.

Except compared to Lambo standards. What 50 years and 4 V12 cars?

Originally posted by rage2

Maybe on the outside it looks the same. Now that I have a 996, I'm starting to realize how different (and better) a 997 is, and why 996's are so cheap yet 997's hold their value much better.

Care to share the differences? Would be nice to know

m10-power

09-27-2011, 10:59 PM

Originally posted by schocker
From autoblog, reports say that the latest generation of 911, the 991 will last for 14 years, with a mid cycle refresh much like the 997 and 997.2. This sounds kind of crazy to me but who knows. At least honda will be impressed :rofl:
http://www.autoblog.com/2011/09/27/porsches-latest-911-to-last-fourteen-years-dowsized-turbo-engi/

Also on porsche continuing to use manual transmission
http://www.autoblog.com/2011/09/23/porsche-committed-to-offering-manual-transmissions-as-long-as-th/

m10-power, you are out of luck for the meantime.

Lol guess I'll just buy a 997.2 turbo with pdk once the new one comes out for a bargin. I'll still wait and see, when I attended the world road show I asked about pdk and the 997 gt3 to an old school porsche racer/instructor. He said never i guess he was right haha. Seems dumb to me to not even offer it as an option.

I like the 996 interior but hate the arm rest on the door, my elbow was bleeding after the track on saturday...

max_boost

09-28-2011, 12:47 AM

Originally posted by m10-power

Lol guess I'll just buy a 997.2 turbo with pdk once the new one comes out for a bargin.

I'd be interested in it too if I can pay <$100k hehe

m10-power

09-28-2011, 09:16 AM

Ya that would be the price point for me to be interested, priced one out with the options I wanted and it was $180k canadian.

Guy brought one to the track and his Daughter drove it, also has a 650hp kit so no slouch. She would pull 9-10 car lengths on me on the straight...and i was getting drive on her. Nuts, wouldnt want to try from a standing start, would be ugly. My 996tt has at least 600hp.

JRSC00LUDE

09-28-2011, 11:20 AM

Originally posted by rage2

Maybe on the outside it looks the same. Now that I have a 996, I'm starting to realize how different (and better) a 997 is, and why 996's are so cheap yet 997's hold their value much better.

Yes, please elaborate more. I hope to buy a 996TT in the next couple years, I doubt I can afford a 997.....I want to hear your perspective, I typically trust it.

clem24

09-28-2011, 11:23 AM

Originally posted by rage2

Maybe on the outside it looks the same. Now that I have a 996, I'm starting to realize how different (and better) a 997 is, and why 996's are so cheap yet 997's hold their value much better.

The 993 Turbos have also held their value better than the 996's; older 993's are going for more than 996s'...

Back on topic.. Didn't the original 911 last like 25 years LOL

E36M3

09-28-2011, 01:13 PM

I was shocked.. if you never drive them back to back, the 996 chassis feels great. The 997 is a huge step forward and is in the same league as an F430 for rigidity. I thought it would be an incremental change, but it is very dramatic.

Originally posted by rage2

Maybe on the outside it looks the same. Now that I have a 996, I'm starting to realize how different (and better) a 997 is, and why 996's are so cheap yet 997's hold their value much better.

rage2

09-28-2011, 01:29 PM

The biggest reason why I find the 996 TT boring is the drivetrain. The AWD system is pretty random (Viscous Coupling), and no rear LSD, not even an option. The handling characteristics reminds me a lot of my SLK32 and W210 E55. Good to 9/10ths, then sloppy and unpredictable at the limit, lose tons of speed over the limit.

The 996 AWD system is purely mechanical, so normally, you get a 5/95 power split. When you get rear wheelspin, the ECU will do the "fake" rear LSD by braking the spinning wheel. Once it overcomes that system, it sends power to the front, up to 30/70 power split. On slow speed corners, it understeers heavily (guessing from lots of weight in the back). If you try to push even a little bit, it starts sending power to the front. The fronts pull the car back in line, then goes back to RWD again, which understeers again, and the process repeats, so it "skips" around slow corners. Really annoying.

In winter (haven't experienced it yet), when there's too much wheelspin, the 996 system reverts to RWD mode because the VC can't keep up and overheats. So with traction control off, it never powers the front wheels. I stumbled on this when looking for winter tires:

zy7cMZe1JAk

The 997 Turbo fixes these issues with a rear LSD (can't remember if it's standard or optional), as well as an electronic AWD system. I haven't driven a 997 Turbo hard, so this is all speculative based on people that have driven both when I brought up the complaints.

E36M3

09-28-2011, 01:45 PM

The 997 AWD is interesting at the limit. It wasn't a turbo, but in a 4S, everything was very predictable until the weight balance became an issue.. at the very edge, the rear motor can really bite you in the ass. Luckily I didn't spin figuring that out on the ring.

Originally posted by rage2
The biggest reason why I find the 996 TT boring is the drivetrain. The AWD system is pretty random (Viscous Coupling), and no rear LSD, not even an option. The handling characteristics reminds me a lot of my SLK32 and W210 E55. Good to 9/10ths, then sloppy and unpredictable at the limit, lose tons of speed over the limit.

The 996 AWD system is purely mechanical, so normally, you get a 5/95 power split. When you get rear wheelspin, the ECU will do the "fake" rear LSD by braking the spinning wheel. Once it overcomes that system, it sends power to the front, up to 30/70 power split. On slow speed corners, it understeers heavily (guessing from lots of weight in the back). If you try to push even a little bit, it starts sending power to the front. The fronts pull the car back in line, then goes back to RWD again, which understeers again, and the process repeats, so it "skips" around slow corners. Really annoying.

In winter (haven't experienced it yet), when there's too much wheelspin, the 996 system reverts to RWD mode because the VC can't keep up and overheats. So with traction control off, it never powers the front wheels. I stumbled on this when looking for winter tires:

zy7cMZe1JAk

The 997 Turbo fixes these issues with a rear LSD (can't remember if it's standard or optional), as well as an electronic AWD system. I haven't driven a 997 Turbo hard, so this is all speculative based on people that have driven both when I brought up the complaints.

m10-power

09-28-2011, 05:06 PM

Lsd in the back on a 996 turbo transforms the car to the point where taking psm off even at the track isnt needed. Without the lsd psm was off all the time when I drove on the street or track.

rage2

09-28-2011, 06:30 PM

Since I picked up a Tip 996TT for traffic, I can't get a LSD on her. Nobody makes one for the tip!

heavyD

09-28-2011, 06:56 PM

Kind of crazy that kind of money only gets you a very basic AWD system.

schocker

09-28-2011, 09:46 PM

rage2

09-28-2011, 10:17 PM

Originally posted by schocker
That is odd, I had no idea that was the case with the 996.
To top it off, the VC dies if you do this often haha. So in winter, don't turn off PSM stability control. Not sure how you would get out if you're stuck in deep snow tho...

Mibz

09-28-2011, 10:37 PM

So what you're saying is that you bought the wrong winter car and must immediately sell it at a terrible financial loss?

I'm here for you, friend.

schocker

09-28-2011, 10:49 PM

Originally posted by rage2

To top it off, the VC dies if you do this often haha. So in winter, don't turn off PSM stability control. Not sure how you would get out if you're stuck in deep snow tho...
Cayenne support vehicle to follow you around :rofl:
I know I hate the vdc on my g35, on ice or deep snow it turns into zero wheel movement at all, this sounds much worse lol

Are you dissapointed then with the 996 or will you just put up with it over winter since you never had issues with the C63?

iLLlegal

09-28-2011, 10:52 PM

that interior is MINT. almost as awesome as the audi quattro concept interior. anyone else think the DRL`s are seriously out of place though :dunno:

you&me

09-29-2011, 05:44 AM

Originally posted by rage2
The 997 Turbo fixes these issues with a rear LSD (can't remember if it's standard or optional), as well as an electronic AWD system. I haven't driven a 997 Turbo hard, so this is all speculative based on people that have driven both when I brought up the complaints.

Option on the 997 Turbo, called "axle differential lock rear" on Porsche build sheets

heavyD

09-29-2011, 07:30 AM

Tik-Tok

09-29-2011, 07:35 AM

Originally posted by rage2
The biggest reason why I find the 996 TT boring is the drivetrain. The AWD system is pretty random (Viscous Coupling), and no rear LSD, not even an option.
...

$40,000 "winter beater", and complaining about it. Fuck it, I'm adding him to my ignore list.

edit: God damn it :rofl:

Sorry rage2 is a moderator/admin and you are not allowed to ignore him or her.

m10-power

09-29-2011, 08:14 AM

Originally posted by rage2
In winter (haven't experienced it yet), when there's too much wheelspin, the 996 system reverts to RWD mode because the VC can't keep up and overheats. So with traction control off, it never powers the front wheels. I stumbled on this when looking for winter tires:

zy7cMZe1JAk

The 997 Turbo fixes these issues with a rear LSD (can't remember if it's standard or optional), as well as an electronic AWD system. I haven't driven a 997 Turbo hard, so this is all speculative based on people that have driven both when I brought up the complaints.

The 997 turbos awd system is better but they don't cost $40k. I have not experienced the above driving in snow with proper tires. I believe that car is likely on summers...

Deep snow that high centres is your only issue, I've heard they are working on an lsd for the automatic so maybe soon enough.

m10-power

09-29-2011, 08:18 AM

Originally posted by m10-power

The 997 turbos awd system is better but they don't cost $40k. I have not experienced the above driving in snow with proper tires. I believe that car is on summers...also likely that the vc is toast.

Deep snow that high centres is your only issue, I've heard they are working on an lsd for the automatic so maybe soon enough.

atgilchrist

09-29-2011, 08:38 AM

Bro-in-law just picked up a 997tt dpk out of Cali with low mileage for 90k, so they're coming down.

rage2

09-29-2011, 09:27 AM

Originally posted by schocker
Are you dissapointed then with the 996 or will you just put up with it over winter since you never had issues with the C63?
I bought it primarily as a winter car, so I'll reserve judgement until after I've seen some snow. As a summer car, yes it's a little disappointing, but to be fair, I've been pretty spoiled with my cars. I've lent the car to a few ppl already, and they love it. Just depends on what you've owned before.

My gf loves the car, so worst I can do is give her the car to enjoy! ;)

schocker

09-29-2011, 09:51 AM

Well hopefully it will be ok, I think it would be fine for the most part with some good tires. If the snow is too deep I suppose you could just use the C63 as a back up while my back up will have to be the bus as I am somehow an awful winter driver :facepalm:
I suppose it is one of your slower recent vehicles, but for winter that amount of power should be more than adequate :rofl:

zipdoa

09-29-2011, 09:55 AM

heavyD

09-29-2011, 10:09 AM

How does the Porsche paint hold up over a Calgary winter where paved streets turn into gravel roads? I imagine much, much better than Japanese cars if it's on par with Audi paint.

rage2

09-29-2011, 10:44 AM

Originally posted by schocker
I suppose it is one of your slower recent vehicles, but for winter that amount of power should be more than adequate :rofl:
It's funny, because in a straight line at our elevation, the 996TT (bone stock) is faster than both AMG's (C63 is chipped to 500hp).

Originally posted by heavyD
How does the Porsche paint hold up over a Calgary winter where paved streets turn into gravel roads? I imagine much, much better than Japanese cars if it's on par with Audi paint.
I dunno, I got the car 3M'd last week, so she'll be protected nicely.

Originally posted by zipdoa
Shoulda bought an Audi!
If I really don't enjoy the car, I'll probably trade it in for a S5. Really love how they look!

schocker

09-29-2011, 11:00 AM

Originally posted by rage2

It's funny, because in a straight line at our elevation, the 996TT (bone stock) is faster than both AMG's (C63 is chipped to 500hp).

If I really don't enjoy the car, I'll probably trade it in for a S5. Really love how they look!
The only time I have been in a turbo was a 997 with exhaust at sea level and that thing was a rocket, my neck hurt so badly :rofl:
Edit: I suppose the 2012 refresh is for europe first, here they are not refreshed for 2012 and these changes will be for 2013. http://wot.motortrend.com/2013-audi-a5-s5-get-refreshed-s5-coupe-ditches-v-8-engine-96237.html
Don't look at the refreshed 2012 S5 then, the new front really ruined the look. Now the 4.2L V8 is gone as well from the coupe version and now all the S5's include the 3.0T.

heavyD

09-29-2011, 11:03 AM

Originally posted by rage2
I dunno, I got the car 3M'd last week, so she'll be protected nicely.

Did you get the whole car done like your BMW or just the impact areas?

clem24

09-30-2011, 11:09 AM

Originally posted by rage2
If I really don't enjoy the car, I'll probably trade it in for a S5. Really love how they look!

Isn't an S5 worse, especially in the understeering dept? Someone brought out an S4 to one of the winter driving courses on Ghost Lake and we concluded that it wasn't possible to entirely disable either VDC or TC or both, can't remember which. Or maybe they didn't know what they were talking about...

The system in the 996TT almost sounds like my Subaru system.. Very passive and 'reacts to the situation' - good for going forward, not good for going sideways. It's sooooo hard to predict what it's going to do in a corner that it actually makes it difficult to flog; just when you think you have everything right, the car just plows. I could easily handle a FWD car and flog that around without it understeering at all, but just can't quite do the same in the Subaru...

rage2

09-30-2011, 12:05 PM

Originally posted by clem24
The system in the 996TT almost sounds like my Subaru system.. Very passive and 'reacts to the situation' - good for going forward, not good for going sideways. It's sooooo hard to predict what it's going to do in a corner that it actually makes it difficult to flog; just when you think you have everything right, the car just plows. I could easily handle a FWD car and flog that around without it understeering at all, but just can't quite do the same in the Subaru...
It's very similar because the 993 and 996 Viscous Coupler is a Subaru part! :rofl:

Xtrema

09-30-2011, 01:30 PM

Originally posted by clem24

Isn't an S5 worse, especially in the understeering dept? Someone brought out an S4 to one of the winter driving courses on Ghost Lake and we concluded that it wasn't possible to entirely disable either VDC or TC or both, can't remember which. Or maybe they didn't know what they were talking about...

Yes and no. The proper "fun" setup is dyanmic mode with ESC held down for 5s to turn all nannies off.

While that alter the behavior of Quattro, you can never disable Quattro. So you probably still can't predict where power goes on ice as you would with RWD.

I think the AMG cars has spoiled Rage. He probably would think RS5 is boring as well. Let alone 4.2 S5 or the new 3.0T S5.

And you are right that the new A/S5 front end take some time to get used to. May be it'll be better once I have seen one in person.

zipdoa

09-30-2011, 03:02 PM

Originally posted by Xtrema

Yes and no. The proper "fun" setup is dyanmic mode with ESC held down for 5s to turn all nannies off.

While that alter the behavior of Quattro, you can never disable Quattro. So you probably still can't predict where power goes on ice as you would with RWD.

I think the AMG cars has spoiled Rage. He probably would think RS5 is boring as well. Let alone 4.2 S5 or the new 3.0T S5.

And you are right that the new A/S5 front end take some time to get used to. May be it'll be better once I have seen one in person.

When it comes to Audi's, older is better.

UrQuattros had 2x diff locks, RS2 had one. Neither had Traction/Stability control. Just a torsen center diff (lockable open in Ur) and rear diff lock.

Ala UrQuattro (Center + Rear)

http://iedei.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/audi_ur_quattro_interior_1.jpeg

Ala RS2 (rear)

http://www.s2central.net/images/diff.jpg

Either way, You'll have no problem doing this:

http://2bennett.com/cars/europeancar.mag/epcp_0905_04_z+1983_Audi_Ur_Quattro+side_view.jpg

Sky

10-01-2011, 02:20 AM

hmm... always thought the 996TT has an awesome AWD system.... I can never forget when Tiff Needell drove it, he didn't seem to have any trouble controlling that backend.

ut3BwIkAUpY

how do u embed?

m10-power

10-01-2011, 12:21 PM

996tt awd system is simply a viscous coupler in the front diff housing, lots of questions on how much and when it transfers. Essentially its always transfering some power, concensus is it transfers more based on speed of car up to a maximum of 30%. If either back wheel start to slip it transfers power to the front. Problem with stock cars is the lack of lsd in the rear, this creates unwanted power transfer during hard cornering which causes understeer. With a lsd the cars handles very well, and not at all like a subaru.(with or without the lsd)

schocker

10-07-2011, 06:54 PM

Here are a bunch of 991's [including two turbos] out and about with some boxsters and caymans.
N6MIiHfeCZQ

pinoyhero

10-09-2011, 08:43 AM

Great whip, didnt stray too much, with facelifts 14 years will fly

Cos

10-09-2011, 09:29 AM

That white one and the turbos are nice.

Love the cayman and boxster too :drool:

483hp

10-31-2011, 09:10 PM

I've never driven a 996TT, but I bought a 997TT last spring as my daily driver. I was skeptical when it came time drive it in the snow, but the freakin' car is a tank with Pirelli Sottozeros. I never had any trouble and I drove it every day no matter what the weather looked like. Plus it looks baller with black OZ Ultraleggera wheels for winter duty.

K3RMiTdot

10-31-2011, 10:21 PM

Originally posted by schocker
[B]Here are a bunch of 991's [including two turbos] out and about with some boxsters and caymans.

bwahaha the turbo looks good, but i wanna see actual pics!
what a good way to wake up hahaha

schocker

01-30-2012, 11:23 PM

991 Turbo has been out and about winter testing!
http://www.autoblog.com/2012/01/30/porsche-911-turbo-caught-out-and-about-again/
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2012/01/porsche911turbospy2.jpg

We've driven the new 991-series Porsche 911, and now the next chapter of the new 911 story – the 2013 Turbo – has been caught proving itself in the wintertide climate. Its most important details – the front and rear bumpers and side intakes – remain behind camo, but we now get a look at how the tail sits across the wider rump, and we think it looks quite good.

When it's finally revealed, the new 911 Turbo is expected to put out more than 500 horsepower – numbers from 520 hp to 550 hp have been mentioned – from it's tri-turboed (yes, three turbos) 3.6-liter flat six. Both the seven-speed PDK and seven-speed manual transmissions should be on offer, and the lighter-than-the-last-Turbo package should be screamingly fast. Have a look at the high-res gallery to see it from just about every angle.
:drool:

962 kid

01-30-2012, 11:42 PM

Looks like the first batch of 991s arrived at SCFC today

schocker

05-22-2012, 09:14 AM

My favorite Porsche model is nearing its return :drool: :drool:
Still hoping the manual wins out over the pdk! Also I would like the wing to be more crazy as it should be :rofl:

http://i.imgur.com/zkFOX.jpg

http://teamspeed.com/forums/gt/72882-spied-2013-porsche-911-gt3-virtually-undisguised.html

2013 Porsche 911 GT3 Virtually Undisguised!
We bring you the best shots to date of the type-991 GT3!

Our trusty Teamspeed spies delight us today with the best 991 GT3 images to date. In these photos we can clearly see the typical GT3-style front bumper , staple centered twin exhaust pipes, and a new style rear wing which appears to be the same as the aero-kit rear spoiler option found in the standard 991 order-book. Our gut tells us this wing was imply affixed for testing purposes as the production version of the new GT3 should have a taller more pronounced wing.

Interesting to take note of the new massive multi-spoke center-lock wheels and the strip of camo tape on the top of the rear bumper, hiding either a row of air-vents or possibly a C4S style reflector strip.

Power is expected to be around 450 horsepower and as mentioned earlier in the week, August Achleitner, the 911 project chief, confirmed that Porsche's motorsport division is currently testing both manual and PDK versions of the new GT3, and If we look closely at the last picture below it does appear to be a paddle on the steering wheel which would suggest this mule is featuring a PDK transmission.

Stay tuned for more news!

nismodrifter

05-22-2012, 11:26 AM

ohhhhhhhhhhhhh yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh :drool:

flipstah

05-22-2012, 02:02 PM

That wing... That glorious wing!

:burnout: :drool: :love:

bspot

05-22-2012, 03:42 PM

Viscous coupling diffs? Seriously? That surprises the hell out of my.

Why didn't they do some tech sharing with Audi and at least put a Torsen diff in? It's not like those were rare or exotic at the time....

Twin_Cam_Turbo

05-22-2012, 08:00 PM

I want!

sneek

05-22-2012, 08:32 PM

:rofl: talk about one upping. Three turbos and 7 speed manuals.

That said 14 years will fly by. I thought the improvement from 997.1 to 997.2 as pretty dramatic :dunno:

ringmaster

05-22-2012, 09:39 PM

Originally posted by schocker

That is odd, I had no idea that was the case with the 996.
Sucks you can't get the LSD.

With the 991 lasting for so many years I should be able to get a 997 C2S in a few years hopefully.

The C2S is a bad ass unit. I regret not buying and 05 "launch car' with all options, ceramic brakes, etc a few years back when one came up used. Compared to the 996, the interior is a step up and the car just feels very solid and well put together. The car isn't mind blowing fast but the cabin is a very nice place to be. Also, the 997 C2S looks great with Turbo wheels :D