Feds shutdown Megaupload

[Xtrema]

http://techland.time.com/2012/01/19/feds-shut-down-megaupload-com-file-sharing-website/

This is getting ridiculous. US somehow has the power to shut down a Hong Kong company ran by New Zealand citizen. Seems like all western countries are losing their sovereignty.

[schocker]

What I don't get is the $500mm evaluation. Most piracy involves pirating something you were never going to purchase in the first place. How is it lost revenue if it would have generally never been revenue to begin with.

[n1zm0]

http://assets0.ordienetworks.com/images/GifGuide/michael_scott/The-Office-gifs-the-office-14948948-240-196.gif

megaupload was/is probably the fastest and most reliable for many many things. fk sakes.

this /b/ post pretty much sums up all this American anti-piracy tyranny:

http://i.imgur.com/ZZFW4.png

goodbye icefilms :cry:

[Zephyr]

http://i.imgur.com/cMjFI.jpg

Even China and North Korea don't go shutting down sites.

http://i.imgur.com/EpRYQ.gif

[arian_ma]

Originally posted by schocker
What I don't get is the $500mm evaluation. Most piracy involves pirating something you were never going to purchase in the first place. How is it lost revenue if it would have generally never been revenue to begin with.
This is text book American politics.

1. Make up shit that is false
2. Stick your nose in where it absolutely does not belong
3. Force your way and profit

[n1zm0]

the full fuck you from the USDJ:



This action is among the largest criminal copyright cases ever brought by the United States and directly targets the misuse of a public content storage and distribution site to commit and facilitate intellectual property crime.



The individuals and two corporations – Megaupload Limited and Vestor Limited – were indicted by a grand jury in the Eastern District of Virginia on Jan. 5, 2012, and charged with engaging in a racketeering conspiracy, conspiring to commit copyright infringement, conspiring to commit money laundering and two substantive counts of criminal copyright infringement. The individuals each face a maximum penalty of 20 years in prison on the charge of conspiracy to commit racketeering, five years in prison on the charge of conspiracy to commit copyright infringement, 20 years in prison on the charge of conspiracy to commit money laundering and five years in prison on each of the substantive charges of criminal copyright infringement.



The indictment alleges that the criminal enterprise is led by Kim Dotcom, aka Kim Schmitz and Kim Tim Jim Vestor, 37, a resident of both Hong Kong and New Zealand. Dotcom founded Megaupload Limited and is the director and sole shareholder of Vestor Limited, which has been used to hold his ownership interests in the Mega-affiliated sites.



In addition, the following alleged members of the Mega conspiracy were charged in the indictment:

Finn Batato, 38, a citizen and resident of Germany, who is the chief marketing officer;
Julius Bencko, 35, a citizen and resident of Slovakia, who is the graphic designer;
Sven Echternach, 39, a citizen and resident of Germany, who is the head of business development;
Mathias Ortmann, 40, a citizen of Germany and resident of both Germany and Hong Kong, who is the chief technical officer, co-founder and director;
Andrus Nomm, 32, a citizen of Estonia and resident of both Turkey and Estonia, who is a software programmer and head of the development software division;
Bram van der Kolk, aka Bramos, 29, a Dutch citizen and resident of both the Netherlands and New Zealand, who oversees programming and the underlying network structure for the Mega conspiracy websites.

Dotcom, Batato, Ortmann and van der Kolk were arrested today in Auckland, New Zealand, by New Zealand authorities, who executed provisional arrest warrants requested by the United States. Bencko, Echternach and Nomm remain at large. Today, law enforcement also executed more than 20 search warrants in the United States and eight countries, seized approximately $50 million in assets and targeted sites where Megaupload has servers in Ashburn, Va., Washington, D.C., the Netherlands and Canada. In addition, the U.S. District Court in Alexandria, Va., ordered the seizure of 18 domain names associated with the alleged Mega conspiracy.

According to the indictment, for more than five years the conspiracy has operated websites that unlawfully reproduce and distribute infringing copies of copyrighted works, including movies – often before their theatrical release – music, television programs, electronic books, and business and entertainment software on a massive scale. The conspirators’ content hosting site, Megaupload.com, is advertised as having more than one billion visits to the site, more than 150 million registered users, 50 million daily visitors and accounting for four percent of the total traffic on the Internet. The estimated harm caused by the conspiracy’s criminal conduct to copyright holders is well in excess of $500 million. The conspirators allegedly earned more than $175 million in illegal profits through advertising revenue and selling premium memberships.



The indictment states that the conspirators conducted their illegal operation using a business model expressly designed to promote uploading of the most popular copyrighted works for many millions of users to download. The indictment alleges that the site was structured to discourage the vast majority of its users from using Megaupload for long-term or personal storage by automatically deleting content that was not regularly downloaded. The conspirators further allegedly offered a rewards program that would provide users with financial incentives to upload popular content and drive web traffic to the site, often through user-generated websites known as linking sites. The conspirators allegedly paid users whom they specifically knew uploaded infringing content and publicized their links to users throughout the world.



In addition, by actively supporting the use of third-party linking sites to publicize infringing content, the conspirators did not need to publicize such content on the Megaupload site. Instead, the indictment alleges that the conspirators manipulated the perception of content available on their servers by not providing a public search function on the Megaupload site and by not including popular infringing content on the publicly available lists of top content downloaded by its users.



As alleged in the indictment, the conspirators failed to terminate accounts of users with known copyright infringement, selectively complied with their obligations to remove copyrighted materials from their servers and deliberately misrepresented to copyright holders that they had removed infringing content. For example, when notified by a rights holder that a file contained infringing content, the indictment alleges that the conspirators would disable only a single link to the file, deliberately and deceptively leaving the infringing content in place to make it seamlessly available to millions of users to access through any one of the many duplicate links available for that file.



The indictment charges the defendants with conspiring to launder money by paying users through the sites’ uploader reward program and paying companies to host the infringing content.



The case is being prosecuted by the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the Eastern District of Virginia and the Computer Crime & Intellectual Property Section in the Justice Department’s Criminal Division. The Criminal Division’s Office of International Affairs, Organized Crime and Gang Section, and Asset Forfeiture and Money Laundering Section also assisted with this case.



The investigation was initiated and led by the FBI at the National Intellectual Property Rights Coordination Center (IPR Center), with assistance from U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement’s Homeland Security Investigations. Substantial and critical assistance was provided by the New Zealand Police, the Organised and Financial Crime Agency of New Zealand (OFCANZ), the Crown Law Office of New Zealand and the Office of the Solicitor General for New Zealand; Hong Kong Customs and the Hong Kong Department of Justice; the Netherlands Police Agency and the Public Prosecutor’s Office for Serious Fraud and Environmental Crime in Rotterdam; London’s Metropolitan Police Service; Germany’s Bundeskriminalamt and the German Public Prosecutors; and the Royal Canadian Mounted Police – Greater Toronto Area (GTA) Federal Enforcement Section and the Integrated Technological Crime Unit and the Canadian Department of Justice’s International Assistance Group. Authorities in the United Kingdom, Australia and the Philippines also provided assistance.



This case is part of efforts being undertaken by the Department of Justice Task Force on Intellectual Property (IP Task Force) to stop the theft of intellectual property. Attorney General Eric Holder created the IP Task Force to combat the growing number of domestic and international intellectual property crimes, protect the health and safety of American consumers, and safeguard the nation’s economic security against those who seek to profit illegally from American creativity, innovation and hard work. The IP Task Force seeks to strengthen intellectual property rights protection through heightened criminal and civil enforcement, greater coordination among federal, state and local law enforcement partners, and increased focus on international enforcement efforts, including reinforcing relationships with key foreign partners and U.S. industry leaders. To learn more about the IP Task Force, go to www.justice.gov/dag/iptaskforce .


http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/2012/January/12-crm-074.html

i'm sure hulkshare, zippy, mediafire etc are soon to come :guns:

[Shlade]

sigh... America butting their business into places they should not as usual..

[Merritt]

NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

[schocker]

Originally posted by arian_ma

This is text book American politics.

1. Make up shit that is false
2. Stick your nose in where it absolutely does not belong
3. Force your way and profit
Haha, I suppose that is true :rofl:

[Merritt]

HOWEVER! Mediafire is still up.

[jav_]

bye bye to all the shows on icefilms :cry:

[rage2]

Originally posted by Xtrema
This is getting ridiculous. US somehow has the power to shut down a Hong Kong company ran by New Zealand citizen. Seems like all western countries are losing their sovereignty.
Interesting, I had no idea Kimble (old school Gumball 3000 legend) was the man behind megaupload. That itself proves that the site wasn't in existence for anything legitimate. :rofl:

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by rage2

Interesting, I had no idea Kimble (old school Gumball 3000 legend) was the man behind megaupload. That itself proves that the site wasn't in existence for anything legitimate. :rofl:

No doubt he made shit load of cash by looking the other way. But you don't sue gun manufacturers for every bank robbery with a gun.

[Toma]

Originally posted by schocker
What I don't get is the $500mm evaluation. Most piracy involves pirating something you were never going to purchase in the first place. How is it lost revenue if it would have generally never been revenue to begin with.
Propaganda.

I mean, out of the thousands of things a person may download, how many would they have bought? 1%?? 0.1%? How much of the quality content to they buy even if they could have downloaded it for free?

It's ridiculous, but for some reason, they still cant shut down Pirate Bay. :thumbsup:

[Type_S1]

pissed....no icefilms

fuck america

[phreezee]

-

[dj_rice]

universalmusic.com and justice.gov websites are down in retaliation attacks by Anon

[Hallowed_point]

Originally posted by Toma


It's ridiculous, but for some reason, they still cant shut down Pirate Bay. :thumbsup:

They better not shut down Pirate Bay, I don't know where the hell else I'm going to find my early 90's hulk hogan straight to vhs movies :thumbsdow :eek:

[Kg810]

fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu :banghead:

[Hakkola]

Originally posted by Merritt
NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK.

:thumbsdow

Fuck. Fuck fuck fuck.

[speedog]

Originally posted by n1zm0
http://i.imgur.com/ZZFW4.png
Humorous screen grab really. The funny thing is that even if all artists struck out on their own and eliminated the recording industry middlemen like Universal/Sony/etc, there would still be multitudes of people (probably the majority) that would still download these artist's music/whatever for free all while at the same time expressing their support for these same artists to be independent.

So what then? How would these independent artists go about protecting their intellectual property? There isn't a clear cut answer IMHO - education is probably the key because innovators will always find a way around the system/controls.

[coupesx]

Anon ddos attacks DOJ among other sites

http://gizmodo.com/5877679/anonymous-kills-department-of-justice-site-in-megaupload-revenge-strike

[G]

Can the US go after all the Megaupload users who have uploaded or downloaded pirated movies/music?

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by speedog
So what then? How would these independent artists go about protecting their intellectual property? There isn't a clear cut answer IMHO - education is probably the key because innovators will always find a way around the system/controls.

When it's priced right people will pay.

iTunes/Netflix which both are hated by MPAA/RIAA.

People will pirate whatever they pirate. That isn't lost sale. But iTunes/Netflix turns pirates into real sales but reduce traditional revenue streams. In the end, it is the old unwilling to let go.


Originally posted by G
Can the US go after all the Megaupload users who have uploaded or downloaded pirated movies/music?

May be people with activity on the US servers and within US borders just to set up a showcase?

In the end, MPAA/RIAA knows one tech will replace another. This is probably the 3rd/4th major tech they tried to fight ever since internet became mainstream in the 90s.

SOPA and PIPA are basically nuclear option to end it once for all.

[Toma]

Originally posted by speedog

Humorous screen grab really. The funny thing is that even if all artists struck out on their own and eliminated the recording industry middlemen like Universal/Sony/etc, there would still be multitudes of people (probably the majority) that would still download these artist's music/whatever for free all while at the same time expressing their support for these same artists to be independent.

So what then? How would these independent artists go about protecting their intellectual property? There isn't a clear cut answer IMHO - education is probably the key because innovators will always find a way around the system/controls.

No system or controls required. If there is no money in your Job, you move onto a new one where there is.

Some artists, innovators, contributors to society, in fact MOST of the greatest minds and talents in human history did it out of passion, and not profit.

It's not my job to guarantee YOUR work and pay. You cannot restrict my freedom to ensure income for yourself.

[OriginalGoods]

Originally posted by arian_ma

This is text book American politics.

1. Make up shit that is false
2. Stick your nose in where it absolutely does not belong
3. Force your way and profit



:clap: TRUTH!

[speedog]

So to Xtrema and Toma, what's the right price for [list=a]
Song
Movie
Old TV show
[/list=a]

Personally, we still purchase our music, most of it now electronically, but we also still occasionally buy CD's and even vinyl. Movies, used to rent from Rogers, now Casablanca and TELUS VOD. Old TV shows and sports events - shit, we haven't got enough time in our lives to worry about that shit.

So what's the right price that'll get the majority of illegal downloaders to stop such and support artists in a way that an artist can still make a reasonable living being just that? A buck a song, $5.00 for a movie?

[Mar]

Jesus, next they'll stop producing blank DVD because people store illegal content on them. What the fuck.

[sexualbanana]

Originally posted by Mar
Jesus, next they'll stop producing blank DVD because people store illegal content on them. What the fuck.

They already tried that argument when audio and video cassettes came out.

[Toma]

Originally posted by speedog
So to Xtrema and Toma, what's the right price for [list=a]
Song
Movie
Old TV show
[/list=a]

Personally, we still purchase our music, most of it now electronically, but we also still occasionally buy CD's and even vinyl. Movies, used to rent from Rogers, now Casablanca and TELUS VOD. Old TV shows and sports events - shit, we haven't got enough time in our lives to worry about that shit.

So what's the right price that'll get the majority of illegal downloaders to stop such and support artists in a way that an artist can still make a reasonable living being just that? A buck a song, $5.00 for a movie?

Who cares. It's whatever the market will bear.

That is not my point.

People in the future have perfect teeth. Would you become a dentist knowing you may have limited work? And then would you cry foul and try and force people to buy sugar so that you can have a paycheck?

REAL artists do it for Art and Fame. Not a paycheck.

I could give a rats ass about protecting their infinitely available, non rival good. ESPECIALLY at the cost of freedom.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by speedog
So what's the right price that'll get the majority of illegal downloaders to stop such and support artists in a way that an artist can still make a reasonable living being just that? A buck a song, $5.00 for a movie?

There isn't a right price. The right price is different for everyone.

I think $1 a song is right. But remember that iTunes also provide a organization service free of charge, to me that is excellent value. I have not bought a CD for more than a decade now. iTune stops me from pirating and transform the music industry from selling music to selling performances (tours). I think that's fair.

Netflix almost delivered what iTunes did for me. I love the idea for every movie/TV show/documentary available to me at a touch of a button without me running a NAS at home. $8 a month? That's a steal, I would pay 2x or even 3x as much if they stream @ 720p and full library. Unfortunately, cable companies, specialty channels and movie studios has too much at stake and had to kill Netflix. Netflix will basically kill the existing TV/AD/Movie structure. They are not about to let another iTunes to happen under their watch. Especially one that fuck with that AD revenue.

There will always be profit to be had, you just have to let the old way die and roll with the changes.

[Mibz]

Originally posted by speedog
So to Xtrema and Toma, what's the right price for [list=a]
Song
Movie
Old TV show
[/list=a]

Personally, we still purchase our music, most of it now electronically, but we also still occasionally buy CD's and even vinyl. Movies, used to rent from Rogers, now Casablanca and TELUS VOD. Old TV shows and sports events - shit, we haven't got enough time in our lives to worry about that shit.

So what's the right price that'll get the majority of illegal downloaders to stop such and support artists in a way that an artist can still make a reasonable living being just that? A buck a song, $5.00 for a movie? What's the right price for a car? For a burger? For somebody to clean your house?

The answer:
Whatever people will pay

[403_Calgary]

Originally posted by speedog

Humorous screen grab really. The funny thing is that even if all artists struck out on their own and eliminated the recording industry middlemen like Universal/Sony/etc, there would still be multitudes of people (probably the majority) that would still download these artist's music/whatever for free all while at the same time expressing their support for these same artists to be independent.

So what then? How would these independent artists go about protecting their intellectual property? There isn't a clear cut answer IMHO - education is probably the key because innovators will always find a way around the system/controls.

Immortal technique does it. According to him he's doing just fine. "I can make over 100k a month on tour..and I may not sell as much cd's but from the ones I do sell I make $7 a pop."

[Mar]

Originally posted by sexualbanana


They already tried that argument when audio and video cassettes came out. Right but MegaUpload is exactly the same, they provide a storage medium where people upload/download copyright content. Sames as blank DVD.

[chkolny541]

Originally posted by G
Can the US go after all the Megaupload users who have uploaded or downloaded pirated movies/music?

of course they can, but the thing is that there is no money in that. You cant sue an indivudual for a few million$ because frankly, you cant get money when the person doesnt have it. Itll just be paid out in a slow and painful wage garnish's that isnt worth it. Go after a huge company like MU, and BAM! youve found some deep pockets to sink into. Easy money.


There's no point protesting SOPA. The USA is a rogue government and will do what they want regardless of a bill passing. The time to protest SOPA and PIPA is over, the time to protest the USA Government itself has begun.

i actually love this quote from someone on Reddit.

[speedog]

Good point in your last paragraph above, Xtreme, and I suspect the cable companies may have done some muscling behind the scenes to hasten the demise of Blockbuster and Rovers Video outlets in Canada - kind of forces people to use VOD.

Anyhow, there has to a a comfortable price point that people will learn to accept as the feds/big corps are going to keep going after the pirating stuff. That and education - it'll start in our kid's schools at a young age kind of like how the Alberta government has been slowly softening the public with regards to a provincial sales tax, talk about it enough and throw enough propaganda out there and after a while that most unpalatable thing will start to have some taste.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by Mar
Right but MegaUpload is exactly the same, they provide a storage medium where people upload/download copyright content. Sames as blank DVD.

Guess what, this will send shockwave to G-Drive/Dropbox/Skydrive or any innovation on cloud storage.

[mark4091]

Everyone who uses the internet should boycott hollywood. I hope this only serves to turn more people towards torrents.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by speedog
Good point in your last paragraph above, Xtreme, and I suspect the cable companies may have done some muscling behind the scenes to hasten the demise of Blockbuster and Rovers Video outlets in Canada - kind of forces people to use VOD.


VOD killed physical rental. Netflix will kill VOD, syndicated market, DVD/BD media sales.

If you are Sony, who spent shit load to make BD the mainstream media, you will damn make sure Netflix fails.

[speedog]

Originally posted by Xtrema


Guess what, this will send shockwave to G-Drive/Dropbox/Skydrive or any innovation on cloud storage. If one's using Dropbox for legitimate purposes, then no big deal right? Or is that where the problem is, illegitimate use?

On a side note, how difficult would it be for someone to build a Dropbox type of service for their personal use?

[Merritt]

Saw this floating around

http://i.imgur.com/VFAvT.jpg

[n1zm0]

Originally posted by coupesx
Anon ddos attacks DOJ among other sites

http://gizmodo.com/5877679/anonymous-kills-department-of-justice-site-in-megaupload-revenge-strike

yes, like batman but not

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by speedog
If one's using Dropbox for legitimate purposes, then no big deal right? Or is that where the problem is, illegitimate use?

On a side note, how difficult would it be for someone to build a Dropbox type of service for their personal use?

Come on now, Megaupload is basically version 1 of these services.

Dropbox can definitely share and sharing is what these people want to stop.

[speedog]

Black March, yeah that will be just as successful as those don't buy gasoline days.

[rage2]

Originally posted by Toma
It's not my job to guarantee YOUR work and pay. You cannot restrict my freedom to ensure income for yourself.
When was theft a freedom?

[sneek]

:( I have a lot of personal files on my Megaupload account. Over the past 3 years I have used Megaupload as a cheap storage solution. :thumbsdow

Hopefully they come back!

[eglove]

too bad black march would never work.

[speedog]

Originally posted by rage2

When was theft a freedom?

But do the people who are doing this view it as theft?

Shit, my wife's cousin and her husband probably pull down 250k annually and they download buckets of shit. This shows me that economics aren't a factor and these are people that grew up in very stable middle class families. Thus, it's a morality issue or it's representative of the me generation, kind of like the lawyer who went after Apple.

But where does this mindset set the limits for what would be deemed theft or not? A buck for a song off of iTunes is too much to pay? What of that $70 bag of premium dog food - why not just take that? What's the difference? Might as well do a drive-away after filling up with gas - same thing, no? Tap around that electrical meter, who'll be the wiser?

[Toma]

Originally posted by rage2

When was theft a freedom?

If they want to fight it, great. But do so in a way that does not disrupt freedoms for non pirate users.

But realistically....

I don't really think you can steal an truly infinitely available "non rival" good.

Like I said, to me, art is art, and forcing a job out of it is silly and I don't really support anyone feelings of entitlement.

[Toma]

Originally posted by speedog


But where does this mindset set the limits for what would be deemed theft or not? A buck for a song off of iTunes is too much to pay? What of that $70 bag of premium dog food - why not just take that? What's the difference? Might as well do a drive-away after filling up with gas - same thing, no? Tap around that electrical meter, who'll be the wiser?

This is a moral issue.

A bag of dog food has real value, it is a real physical product, each "copy" or iteration cost the manufacture something.

A better comparison would be Mac and Cheese being produced out of a Star Trek replicator. Is that theft from Kraft?

[speedog]

Originally posted by Toma


If they want to fight it, great. But do so in a way that does not disrupt freedoms for non pirate users. There in lies the rub - I use Dropbox entirely in a legitimate manner and yet, Dropbox's existence could be threatened by this latest round of shit. Maybe it's about time Dropbox started enforcing it's stated policies, but would they be a viable business then?

Thus why I ask, would it be that difficult for one to build their own Dropbox type of service? What would be the roadblocks one would face in trying to sync a folder one several different computers in separate locations.

[rage2]

Originally posted by Toma
This is a moral issue.

A bag of dog food has real value, it is a real physical product, each "copy" or iteration cost the manufacture something.
An average hollywood movie has a budget of $10-100m. There is a cost to "manufacture" a film.

[spikerS]

Originally posted by Toma


This is a moral issue.

A bag of dog food has real value, it is a real physical product, each "copy" or iteration cost the manufacture something.

A better comparison would be Mac and Cheese being produced out of a Star Trek replicator. Is that theft from Kraft?

A better example would be:

someone visits Toma to have a custom tune put into a chip on their ECU and pays Toma to do it.

Now this person belongs to a really effin crazy car club. They have 20 identical cars in every way. One of them is techy enough to replicate this chip 20 times, and install them into the 20 vehicles. Toma has now lost out on the potential revenue on these 20 vehicles, as his custom tune and chip have been replicated and distributed to potential clients he could have performed the service for.

[speedog]

Originally posted by Toma


This is a moral issue.

A bag of dog food has real value, it is a real physical product, each "copy" or iteration cost the manufacture something.

A better comparison would be Mac and Cheese being produced out of a Star Trek replicator. Is that theft from Kraft? Does that bag of dog food have the same real value to all people?

That aside, what about electricity - just an invisible medium no different than an electronically downloaded song. Do I, as a consumer, even have a clue where it's generated or how or where it came from? People foolishly pay more for green electricity (Leapfrog or whatever it's called) and yet those electrons that make up that electricity that flow into your house don't give a hot damn what you think you're paying for. So does electricity have real value?

Yes, it is a moral issue, Toma, and I am glad up to this point in time that my family's business hasn't been hit to hard by poor morals other than the occasional shop lifted item. Then again, everything we sell has a physical activity or item associated to it although there is always someone out there trying to get a better deal - screw me around and you won't be welcome. Return with repeat business and we might reward that returning customer knowing that we are trying to offer products at a fair price while trying top eke out a decent living.

[rx7boi]

Oh my god you fucks, if you start with this debate somehow modelexis is gonna make his way into this thread.

IS THAT WHAT YOU WANT haha

[BerserkerCatSplat]

Originally posted by sneek


Hopefully they come back!

Well, that didn't take long, assuming it's legit.

www.megavideo.bz

[WithTheLightsOn]

Originally posted by Xtrema


No doubt he made shit load of cash by looking the other way. But you don't sue gun manufacturers for every bank robbery with a gun.
The thing is, from what they're being accused they didn't just look the other way. Apparently execs of megavideo were using one of the premium services to directly sell links of TV shows and movies on their website to third-party websites, which would then put these links on their own websites so that users could search for and watch these shows and movies directly on megavideo.

[[Yu]]

Originally posted by rage2

An average hollywood movie has a budget of $10-100m. There is a cost to "manufacture" a film.

While I agree that there are costs involved in a film, I am curious to as how much of that budget is allocated to hiring actors.

I think it would be more accurate to compare once you scale down the salary that actors get because I do agree with Toma.

If society is still willing to pay money to go see movies, than let the movie industry run the way it is. But in the case of the music industry, society seems to not want to pay money for artists, and as Toma has said, its not our responsibility to make sure the artist get compensated for their work. True artists should just produce out of passion, and I would assume that once society recognizes that, they would be willing to compensate these artists for work they do.

As of now, the music industry to me seems like artists are whining and complaining that they are not getting paid for producing music because people are pirating their stuff.

I wish I could voice my opinion more strongly but I can't seem to put what I feel into words, so my post may not be getting across what I am trying to say.

[Mibz]

Originally posted by speedog
Black March, yeah that will be just as successful as those don't buy gasoline days. That's exactly what I was thinking.

Hell, even if you did manage to make a noticeable dent the only thing you'd accomplish is raising prices for everything you boycotted.

[Zephyr]

I think the biggest issue is that the United States was able to go to Hong Kong, shut down the site, and arrest people who are non-US citizens that were not even on United States soil. All this was done with zero due process. Am I the only one that sees this as very frightening?

[v2kai]

There is inherent 'manufacture' costs in anything. Be it electricity, a firmware flash, a digital movie whatever but its the choice of action which is the issue I think.

Bit of a dead horse we've all heard before but it seems if you try to force people/market into a direction by heavy restrictions and control, now more than ever I think you will be faced with a strong resistance. It's a losing battle. The only effective solution is to change to a more progressive business model. Theyre going about it bass ackwards and Zephyr's statement is a good indicator of that.

I think Louis CK's latest experiment is one good example of that in today's changing digital media distribution environment. (say that 10 times fast):poosie:

[cherpintow]

Originally posted by Zephyr
I think the biggest issue is that the United States was able to go to Hong Kong, shut down the site, and arrest people who are non-US citizens that were not even on United States soil. All this was done with zero due process. Am I the only one that sees this as very frightening?

This is my biggest problem with the whole thing. I do think there are issues that need to be addressed with copyright infringement, but it really bothers me that they can just do this and have to answer to no one.

Big movies have huge budgets, maybe it's time we start asking ourselves if paying one human for one movie 20 million dollars is the right thing to do.

[v2kai]

Originally posted by cherpintow


This is my biggest problem with the whole thing. I do think there are issues that need to be addressed with copyright infringement, but it really bothers me that they can just do this and have to answer to no one.

Big movies have huge budgets, maybe it's time we start asking ourselves if paying one human for one movie 20 million dollars is the right thing to do.

Whether its the right thing to do or whether that bvusiness model is sustainable anymore is definitely what's on the table.

[WithTheLightsOn]

Originally posted by Zephyr
I think the biggest issue is that the United States was able to go to Hong Kong, shut down the site, and arrest people who are non-US citizens that were not even on United States soil. All this was done with zero due process. Am I the only one that sees this as very frightening?
Pretty sure that's not what happened at all. Four of them were arrested in New Zealand by local police on the request of the US, to which they were then extradited based on their extradition treaties.
As for the website, I'm pretty sure it was registered under an American domain. Seems like Hong Kong wasn't really involved in any of this.

[Mibz]

Just noticed that HDBits is down too, not sure if it's coincidence or not, haha, fuck.

[StupidWade]

Originally posted by BerserkerCatSplat


Well, that didn't take long, assuming it's legit.

www.megavideo.bz

LOL. The feds are playing whack-a-mole, but they're too antedeluvian to realize there are too many moles and that the DoJ hammer will be too fucking slow.

[Zephyr]

Originally posted by WithTheLightsOn

Pretty sure that's not what happened at all. Four of them were arrested in New Zealand by local police on the request of the US, to which they were then extradited based on their extradition treaties.
As for the website, I'm pretty sure it was registered under an American domain. Seems like Hong Kong wasn't really involved in any of this.

I think I worded it wrong. But it is a Hong Kong based company, which are runed by New Zealand citizens.

[WithTheLightsOn]

Originally posted by Zephyr


I think I worded it wrong. But it is a Hong Kong based company, which are runed by New Zealand citizens.
Ok, but I still don't understand why you have a problem with how they were arrested or the websites were taken down.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by WithTheLightsOn

Ok, but I still don't understand why you have a problem with how they were arrested or the websites were taken down.

Wait, American laws apply to everyone in the world doesn't worry you?

Anyhow, Kodak just file for bankruptcy today. It's another company that won't embrace the future and instead tried to safeguard its old business. Hollywood will end up the same if they don't change. It's simple business, evolve or die.

[A790]

Originally posted by WithTheLightsOn

Ok, but I still don't understand why you have a problem with how they were arrested or the websites were taken down.
I don't understand how the concepts of national sovereignty or due process are foreign to you.

The US taking down websites that exist outside of its borders is NOT okay.

[Toma]

Originally posted by rage2

An average hollywood movie has a budget of $10-100m. There is a cost to "manufacture" a film.
not the copy downloaded. That copy was created out of thin air. If someone took inventory they would not find anything missing.

if someone stole dog food, inventory would be short a bag.

[Toma]

Originally posted by spikers


A better example would be:

someone visits Toma to have a custom tune put into a chip on their ECU and pays Toma to do it.

Now this person belongs to a really effin crazy car club. They have 20 identical cars in every way. One of them is techy enough to replicate this chip 20 times, and install them into the 20 vehicles. Toma has now lost out on the potential revenue on these 20 vehicles, as his custom tune and chip have been replicated and distributed to potential clients he could have performed the service for.
terrible example....but I will play, even pretending dynoing is my only job.

you won't believe me....but this is honest.

I tuned your car. You paid me. What you do with it's upto you. Copy it. Sell it. Delete it. Your business.

only time I would have an issue is if someone made copies and sold them for profit. If you gave them away, that's cool.

if it ever came to that I was not making the $ I wanted, I would do the jobs for fun that I liked doing, and move to a profession that was better for $.

why its a terrible example for a factory ecu tuner is that we are pirates. Ford, Chevy dodge etc never gave me permission to use any part of their code or programming.

[YCB]

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/01/19/hackers-attack-fbi-justice-department-websites-after-megaupload-shutdown/

Looks like Anonymous hacked the FBI in retaliation. :drama:

[Merritt]

Originally posted by Zephyr
I think the biggest issue is that the United States was able to go to Hong Kong, shut down the site, and arrest people who are non-US citizens that were not even on United States soil. All this was done with zero due process. Am I the only one that sees this as very frightening?

U.S. pretty much controls the world, there's nothing you can do about it.

[K3RMiTdot]

fuck the usa

[WithTheLightsOn]

Originally posted by Xtrema

Wait, American laws apply to everyone in the world doesn't worry you?


Originally posted by A790

I don't understand how the concepts of national sovereignty or due process are foreign to you.

The US taking down websites that exist outside of its borders is NOT okay.


http://geo.flagfox.net/?host=megaupload.com
http://whois.domaintools.com/174.140.154.24

I don't understand what you guys are talking about. Their domains were registered in the US. They even had over 1000 servers (25 PB, holy fuck!) in Virginia to run their sites. How would this not be under US jurisdiction?
If Megaupload did not want to be subject to US or certain national laws, all they had to do was move their domains somewhere else. Seems to have worked pretty well for The Pirate Bay over the years (http://thepiratebay.org/legal). :rofl:

[Merritt]

Also, this could be very well a false flag operation to make the internet users give up their privacy so that "Anonymous" wouldn't make the news anymore.

[Darell_n]

Originally posted by mark4091
Everyone who uses the internet should boycott hollywood. I hope this only serves to turn more people towards torrents.

And download what? Norwegian films and Japanese cartoons can only entertain a guy for so long.

[Xtrema]

http://jalopnik.com/5877749/megaupload-founder-claims-hes-mafia-guilty-and-god-on-his-license-plates

Quite a collection seized from Dotcom.

[Kardon]

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lxrlreKoCr1qjzzyw.gif

[GoChris]

Originally posted by Mibz
Just noticed that HDBits is down too, not sure if it's coincidence or not, haha, fuck.

Better be a coincidence, they do go down for a few hours at a time here and there.

[rage2]

Originally posted by [Yu]
While I agree that there are costs involved in a film, I am curious to as how much of that budget is allocated to hiring actors.

I think it would be more accurate to compare once you scale down the salary that actors get because I do agree with Toma.

If society is still willing to pay money to go see movies, than let the movie industry run the way it is. But in the case of the music industry, society seems to not want to pay money for artists, and as Toma has said, its not our responsibility to make sure the artist get compensated for their work. True artists should just produce out of passion, and I would assume that once society recognizes that, they would be willing to compensate these artists for work they do.

Originally posted by cherpintow
Big movies have huge budgets, maybe it's time we start asking ourselves if paying one human for one movie 20 million dollars is the right thing to do.
In a successful film, movie costs are covered during theatrical runs anyways, so yes, consumers are already dictating what actors should be paid.

Consumers are also willing to pay for music as well. Sure it's not our responsibility to make sure artists get paid, but artists and music publishers have a right to create a business model to make money. Capitalism, not communism. We don't have a right to dictate how much money someone can make, if there is a demand for the product.


Originally posted by Zephyr
I think the biggest issue is that the United States was able to go to Hong Kong, shut down the site, and arrest people who are non-US citizens that were not even on United States soil. All this was done with zero due process. Am I the only one that sees this as very frightening?

Originally posted by cherpintow
This is my biggest problem with the whole thing. I do think there are issues that need to be addressed with copyright infringement, but it really bothers me that they can just do this and have to answer to no one.
A crime was committed, and arrests were made locally through extradition treaties. Its no different than if someone did a pyramid scheme stealing from US citizens, and arrested abroad.

Zero process? It was an investigation spanning years before this all went down.


Originally posted by Toma
not the copy downloaded. That copy was created out of thin air. If someone took inventory they would not find anything missing.

Originally posted by Toma
terrible example....but I will play, even pretending dynoing is my only job.

you won't believe me....but this is honest.

I tuned your car. You paid me. What you do with it's upto you. Copy it. Sell it. Delete it. Your business.

only time I would have an issue is if someone made copies and sold them for profit. If you gave them away, that's cool.
That's great that you have a business model that you can sustain that way. Selling 1 tune would recover your costs of producing that tune so you don't care if it's given away for free. That's your right to create such a business model.

Now, let's look at software. The software we sell costs roughly $10m to create. We could sell it for $10m to break even and allow others to copy it for free. See how your business model does not work for us? Should we not make software? No. We should sell it at $5k a pop to 2000 companies to break even. But if companies pirate our software, the business model would break. On the surface, there is 0 cost to piracy (copying out of thin air), but if you look at the big picture, the theft robs us of the ability to recoup costs of production, and earning a living.

It's funny that you post so much about freedoms and rights that you're being infringed on, when you feel that you can dictate how others run their businesses, robbing them of their right to make money in a capalist society.

At the end of the day, theft of music and movies is easy, and it's hard to get caught. Victimless crime, no money lost from piracy when ppl aren't going to buy anyways, infringing on rights... those are all just convenient excuses to justify theft to make us feel better about ourselves.


Originally posted by Xtrema
http://jalopnik.com/5877749/megaupload-founder-claims-hes-mafia-guilty-and-god-on-his-license-plates

Quite a collection seized from Dotcom.
3 CLK DTM's. :rofl:

[Agent_Oorange]

Originally posted by rage2

3 CLK DTM's. :rofl:

Group buy on the seized assets? :D

[taemo]

I noticed that fileserve is deleting alot of tv shows links now, even newly uploaded ones.. FFFUUU

[Modelexis]

The topic of IP is a very interesting one.
I wonder if the same principle could be applied to dog breeders, say someone bred a one of a kind dog and sold breeds and the new owner bred those and sold the rare breed copies for money?

Would you then be a dog pirate?
:D

[rage2]

Originally posted by Modelexis
The topic of IP is a very interesting one.
I wonder if the same principal could be applied to dog breeders, say someone bred a one of a kind dog and sold breeds and the new owner bred those and sold the rare breed copies for money?

Would you then be a dog pirate?
:D
Almost all dog breeders require you to sign a contract to make sure you don't use the dog for breeding and sell off the puppies. So the answer is yes.

[Modelexis]

Originally posted by rage2

Almost all dog breeders require you to sign a contract to make sure you don't use the dog for breeding and sell off the puppies. So the answer is yes.

Interesting.
I've never signed a contract when buying a CD or DVD at the store.

I agree with most people that piracy is a problem, but I think the corps putting together the business plan should take some responsibility for how effective their business plan is.

[Toma]

rage....
its not societies or an individuals duty to support a particular business model.

its business' responsibility to tailor a sustainable model without infringing on individual rights.

your software example is different, as you clearly said you sold it to businesses.

but even so, the simple fact remains that if there was no expectation of profit, your business model would need to evolve until you were satisfied with the profit you can generate.

[Toma]

all the concern of piracy and using it as an excuse to enact Gestapo like laws.....

I am willing to bet movie sales, including legal online downloads and movie services like netflix and Shaw on demand...

I would bet my right nut that legal 'consumption' is massively up in the last 10 years.

[spike98]

Originally posted by rage2

Almost all dog breeders require you to sign a contract to make sure you don't use the dog for breeding and sell off the puppies. So the answer is yes.

All dogs that are CKC registered will have a contract attached to them preventing breeding. However you can buy purebread dogs specifically for breeding which come at a substantially higher price.

That would be an interesting business model for digital media.

Download a full album for one device $3.....download the same album for multiple devices or to share with friends...$20.

[JustinMCS]

It's baaaaaaack.

EDIT: Phishing site

[Xtrema]

I respect IP. I am just pissed off at the way they are defended to support an old infrastructure that can no longer and should no longer be in place.

iTunes/Netflix/Steam are shining examples what the future is/could be in their respective medium. MPAA/RIAA should learn from them instead of trying to squish them. Especially their income are increasing coming from foreign countries. You need a system to stop people from pirating and such system is already staring at their faces.

Margin may be lower but you'll make it back in volume.

[codetrap]

Originally posted by Xtrema
I respect IP. I am just pissed off at the way they are defended to support an old infrastructure that can no longer and should no longer be in place.

iTunes/Netflix/Steam are shining examples what the future is/could be in their respective medium. MPAA/RIAA should learn from them instead of trying to squish them. Especially their income are increasing coming from foreign countries. You need a system to stop people from pirating and such system is already staring at their faces.

Margin may be lower but you'll make it back in volume. .


http://www.vudu.com/difference.html

[Toma]

I use torrent sites, and the internet mainly to find either obscure books and material/information, or to download TV shows. I prefer books in print, so if I download a book, and I like it, I buy it.... even if its old enough to be out of copyright etc.

Anyway, a year or so ago, a friend reccomends a book. My friend is an idiot, so I find a copy and download it. I don't read it right away, but pick at it here and there, and finally decide this book is great. Good enough that my brother and father need a copy. I go to amazon, buy 3 copies. (The book was Tim Ferris' The 4 Hour Body).

This happens all the time, and I don't want ot lead anyone to think this is an isolated incidence.

I have purchased hundreds of books and other "digital" content that I normally would not have simply because I downloaded it and liked it.

If i had not pirated it to begin with, he would not have got 3 sales out of it, and probably more if word of mouth kicks in. Would he mind? I don't know, maybe I should email and ask?

TV.... anyone that knows me, knows I have not had cable in like 10 years. I hardly watch TV. People were talking about a few shows that sounded interesting, so I started downloading them. It was House, Dexter, and Burn Notice. I then said, well shit, if all 3 of these shows are good, what else am I missing? So, this lead to my first ever purchase of a box set tv series, and for the first time in 10 years, last month I signed up for cable. Fuck! lol

Last example. I'm into some obscure topics/subjects, and wrote a little 60 page "guide" under a pen name (it's odd enough, I din't want my real name associated with it lol), anyway. Found a small publisher that sold the book mainly on websites dedicated to the topic, the chances of it hitting bookstores was minimal given the small anticipated audience. Anyway, after a year, sales trickled off to almost nothing, and total sold was just over 1800 copies. Being vane and wanting to see people talking about it more, I decided to release it in PDF as a "pirate copy". I did so on a forum that my target audience frequents. Within a week, sales of the actual book/manual started to sell again, and it sold another 800 copies or so.

Torrent sites, and share sites are powerful tools for individuals, and up and comers, artists, powerful as previews, and powerful as information sharing. Of course people use them as they shouldn't, but their BENEFIT to society I feel FAR outweighs the cost to corporations.

It's upto the corporation to revise their model, and not force individuals to be inconvenienced or limited in anyway in accessing this content. They can try and limit THEIR content, but their attempts MUST NOT interfere in any way with anyone else s content.

Not everyone is out there creating content strictly for cash. Many people simply wish to contribute their art, knowledge, or do something for society.... even the smallest attempt to stifle this for the sake of profit is criminal IMO.

[n1zm0]

Originally posted by Xtrema
http://jalopnik.com/5877749/megaupload-founder-claims-hes-mafia-guilty-and-god-on-his-license-plates

Quite a collection seized from Dotcom.

Kimble's garage:

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/gizmodo/2012/01/mega_1.jpg

http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/images/4/2012/01/eaabc37065ae79650f40340a47d57b41.jpg

http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/images/4/2012/01/b766e82782fc8f55d6221642696cd90d.jpg

http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/images/4/2012/01/8a624782db7e4cc7aded643642365a25.jpg

http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/images/4/2012/01/3cd87e5421edc6ee8df222f74499dded.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/adolH.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/WYoqe.jpg

http://www.flickr.com/photos/elliottkember/sets/72157628949521545/with/6729504345/

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by codetrap
.


http://www.vudu.com/difference.html

Nice. Sounds awesome service. Gotta check it out.

[rage2]

Originally posted by Modelexis
Interesting.
I've never signed a contract when buying a CD or DVD at the store.
That's because it's already covered by copyright laws. Dog breeding obviously isn't covered, hence, the need for a contact.


Originally posted by Toma
rage....
its not societies or an individuals duty to support a particular business model.

its business' responsibility to tailor a sustainable model without infringing on individual rights.

your software example is different, as you clearly said you sold it to businesses.

but even so, the simple fact remains that if there was no expectation of profit, your business model would need to evolve until you were satisfied with the profit you can generate.
I agree. It still doesn't give you a right to steal just because you disagree lol.

If I don't agree with how much money Mercedes charges for cars, I can't go and pay what I feel is fair and just take the car haha.


Originally posted by Xtrema
I respect IP. I am just pissed off at the way they are defended to support an old infrastructure that can no longer and should no longer be in place.

iTunes/Netflix/Steam are shining examples what the future is/could be in their respective medium. MPAA/RIAA should learn from them instead of trying to squish them. Especially their income are increasing coming from foreign countries. You need a system to stop people from pirating and such system is already staring at their faces.

Margin may be lower but you'll make it back in volume.
Totally agree.


Originally posted by Toma
I use torrent sites, and the internet mainly to find either obscure books and material/information, or to download TV shows. I prefer books in print, so if I download a book, and I like it, I buy it.... even if its old enough to be out of copyright etc.

Anyway, a year or so ago, a friend reccomends a book. My friend is an idiot, so I find a copy and download it. I don't read it right away, but pick at it here and there, and finally decide this book is great. Good enough that my brother and father need a copy. I go to amazon, buy 3 copies. (The book was Tim Ferris' The 4 Hour Body).

This happens all the time, and I don't want ot lead anyone to think this is an isolated incidence.

I have purchased hundreds of books and other "digital" content that I normally would not have simply because I downloaded it and liked it.

If i had not pirated it to begin with, he would not have got 3 sales out of it. Would he mind? I don't know, maybe I should email and ask?

TV.... anyone that knows me, knows I have not had cable in like 10 years. I hardly watch TV. People were talking about a few shows that sounded interesting, so I started downloading them. It was House, Dexter, and Burn Notice. I then said, well shit, if all 3 of these shows are good, what else am I missing? So, this lead to my first ever purchase of a box set tv series, and for the first time in 10 years, last month I signed up for cable. Fuck! lol

Last example. I'm into some obscure topics/subjects, and wrote a little 60 page "guide" under a pen name (it's odd enough, I din't want my real name associated with it lol), anyway. Found a small publisher that sold the book mainly on websites dedicated to the topic, the chances of it hitting bookstores was minimal given the small anticipated audience. Anyway, after a year, sales trickled off to almost nothing, and total sold was just over 1800 copies. Being vane and wanting to see people talking about it more, I decided to release it in PDF as a "pirate copy". I did so on a forum that my target audience frequents. Within a week, sales of the actual book/manual started to sell again, and it sold another 800 copies or so.

Torrent sites, and share sites are powerful tools for individuals, and up and comers, artists, powerful as previews, and powerful as information sharing. Of course people use them as they shouldn't, but their BENEFIT to society I feel FAR outweighs the cost to corporations.

It's upto the corporation to revise their model, and not force individuals to be inconvenienced or limited in anyway in accessing this content. They can try and limit THEIR content, but their attempts MUST NOT interfere in any way with anyone else s content.

Not everyone is out there creating content strictly for cash. Many people simply wish to contribute their art, knowledge, or do something for society.... even the smallest attempt to stifle this for the sake of profit is criminal IMO.
There are artists that do what you want.

http://forums.beyond.ca/showthread.php?threadid=346144

Again, if they choose not to use such a model, it does not give you a right to steal first then buy later.

[dimi]

Wait a minute.

Correct me if I am wrong but, they just charged the guy. Now they start seizing all his personal property, before he even has a chance to mount a defence. Wasn't it innocent until proven guilty or am I totally missing something?

[Zephyr]

Originally posted by JustinMCS
It's baaaaaaack.

edited out

(Their new address for now)

This is a phishing site, please stay away

[Kg810]

Originally posted by Zephyr


This is a phishing site, please stay away

Delete the link? :dunno:

I'm sure people don't read threads backwards, so your warning may be too late for someone who clicks on the link before reading the rest of the posts.