Synthetic oil

[calgaryamzy]

I have been using castrol syntec 10w30 in my turbo charged Volvo, recently i have put on allot of km on my motor, anyone have any idea of a synthetic oil good for high millage turbocharged cars? or should i continue using castrol syntec 10w30. thanks

[93VR6]

Castrol syntec is synthetic....

[revelations]

Syntec is a blend of oils - not 100% pure synthetic.

In the long term, the oil wont make as much of a difference with turbo vehicles as how you drive it and how you treat the turbo (eg dont shut off when hot).

[Zero102]

Originally posted by revelations
Syntec is a blend of oils - not 100% pure synthetic.

In the long term, the oil wont make as much of a difference with turbo vehicles as how you drive it and how you treat the turbo (eg dont shut off when hot).

Syntec is not a blend.
Syntec is a group III synthetic base stock combined with additives, just like the current Mobil1 and a whole stack of other synthetic oils. It is what they can legally call a full synthetic oil as the base stock is not blended with conventional base stocks as you have implied.

For almost all of us Group III or Group IV/V doesn't matter even the tiniest bit. Syntec is perfectly fine for what he is doing, and while he's at it, he should do used oil analysis and find out what his true optimum oil change interval is, that's where synthetics really shine is in the extended change intervals. Using a synthetic in a turbocharged engine is a good call.

High mileage oils are generally not required, however if you are finding that you have low oil pressure due to excessive clearances and don't want to tear down the motor, or are just starting to notice lower oil pressures, you can switch to a thicker oil to buy some more time. My personal favorite for this is Shell Rotella T6, its a 5W40 designed for diesels that gets amazing results over at BITOG.

[CapnCrunch]

It's always a good idea to run synthetic in a turbo. Turbo's run very hot and synthetic oil is much better at resisting these higher temps.

Syntec = synthetic so you're fine.

[revelations]

Originally posted by Zero102


Syntec is not a blend.
Syntec is a group III synthetic base stock combined with additives, just like the current Mobil1 and a whole stack of other synthetic oils. It is what they can legally call a full synthetic oil as the base stock is not blended with conventional base stocks as you have implied.

For almost all of us Group III or Group IV/V doesn't matter even the tiniest bit. Syntec is perfectly fine for what he is doing, and while he's at it, he should do used oil analysis and find out what his true optimum oil change interval is, that's where synthetics really shine is in the extended change intervals. Using a synthetic in a turbocharged engine is a good call.

High mileage oils are generally not required, however if you are finding that you have low oil pressure due to excessive clearances and don't want to tear down the motor, or are just starting to notice lower oil pressures, you can switch to a thicker oil to buy some more time. My personal favorite for this is Shell Rotella T6, its a 5W40 designed for diesels that gets amazing results over at BITOG.

regarding Syntec


Late in 1997, Castrol changed the formula of its Syntec "full synthetic motor oil", eliminating the polyalphaolefins (PAO) base stock (that's the "synthetic" part, which makes up about 70% by volume of what's in the bottle) and replacing it with a "hydroisomerized" petroleum base stock.

http://www.syntheticsbestoil.com/mobil.htm


As an aside, I also use T6 in the car and bike .... very good stuff. Sent off a sample to Blackstone recently to see if I can get the drain interval extended.

[CapnCrunch]

Originally posted by revelations


regarding Syntec



http://www.syntheticsbestoil.com/mobil.htm


As an aside, I also use T6 in the car and bike .... very good stuff. Sent off a sample to Blackstone recently to see if I can get the drain interval extended.

Mobil also uses similar basestocks now, so it doesn't matter. They tried to sue Castrol over it and lost, so they decided if we can't beat them, join them.

Highly refined basestocks are almost on par with synthetic ones and for 99.9% of cars on the road, you'll never notice a difference.

The only synthetic oils that I know still use 100% synthetic basestocks are Amsoil, Royal Purple, and Redline (not totally sure about Redline).

Anything else on the market is either a 100% petroleum basestock, or its a blend of petroleum and synthetic, all to keep costs down.

[Zero102]

Originally posted by revelations


regarding Syntec


Late in 1997, Castrol changed the formula of its Syntec "full synthetic motor oil", eliminating the polyalphaolefins (PAO) base stock (that's the "synthetic" part, which makes up about 70% by volume of what's in the bottle) and replacing it with a "hydroisomerized" petroleum base stock.


Which is exactly what I said, its a Group III oil, which Castrol had a fight over and won the right to call a synthetic oil. They led the way and tons of other oil manufacturers also use Group III synthetic basestocks (Mobil, Quaker State, etc.). No they are not PAO base, but for almost every situation, it just doesn't matter. The additive packages matter far more than the base stock for most (if not all) major brand synthetic oils since the group III base stocks they use are still very good.


As far as who is still group IV/V or PAO base?... I know Motul is and didn't see them listed above, same with Total Quartz (formerly Elf).... I can't think of any other brands. I believe Rotella T6 is actually a group III synthetic underneath it all, and it gets some of the best reviews and UOAs of any synthetic oil out there.

[G-ZUS]

Where can one pick up Rotella or Lubro-moly in town?

[lilmira]

How about German Castrol? I thought it's still full synthetic.

[Unknown303]

Doesn't walmart carry Rotella?

[schocker]

Originally posted by lilmira
How about German Castrol? I thought it's still full synthetic.
It is. Wish it came in jugs instead of the 1L bottles.

[Zero102]

Originally posted by schocker

It is. Wish it came in jugs instead of the 1L bottles.

And only in specific viscosities too... 5W40 or 0W40, I forget, but there is only one viscosity of it that you can even get here, its never on sale and it is as expensive as other group IV/V oils that are much easier to obtain.

[lilmira]

0W30, it's the only one that says made in germany. I usually pick up a dozen whenever I see them on sale. I'm down to half a dozen now and I haven't seen a sale for a while, making me worried :( .

[schocker]

Ya, I used to use the 0w30 in my g35, now that i have my turbo volvo idgaf :rofl:

[heavyD]

I've been using M1 Advanced Fuel Economy 0W20 in my Mustang. It's pretty good oil but IMO people fret too much about oil nowadays with all the Amsoil internet spam and misleading Royal Purple ball-bearing wear test advertisements. Any synthetic oil even the cheap ones like Motormaster will provide more than enough protection for 99% of drivers.

[Zero102]

Originally posted by heavyD
I've been using M1 Advanced Fuel Economy 0W20 in my Mustang. It's pretty good oil but IMO people fret too much about oil nowadays with all the Amsoil internet spam and misleading Royal Purple ball-bearing wear test advertisements. Any synthetic oil even the cheap ones like Motormaster will provide more than enough protection for 99% of drivers.

Exactly! Group III's are perfectly fine, I was super picky about all these things for a while and after some time looking at the costs and benefits I have come to the conclusion that group III oils perform exactly as well in my applications, are of much lower cost and therefore are fine for my cars.

Lots of group IV/V base stock synthetic oils run out of TBN long before the wear metal concentrations become concerning or the anti-wear additives are depleted. Most of the time when a UOA lab recommends you change your oil it is because of TBN depletion, and this is a factor that depends on the additive package when you are comparing different oils, not the base stock.

Even people who have copious amounts of money invested in racing engines and run endurance racing events run group III synthetics for the most part. Seriously, group III's are fine. Worry less, drive more.

[revelations]

Summarize:

- the definition of "synthetic" has changed considerably over the years.
- Castrol is still, by their definition, "synthetic" but its changed considerably from years gone by, but this wont affect the average driver
- Shells Rotella T6 is one of the better "synthetic" oils out there, available at Walmart (Marlborough at least) for 35$ for ~5L

[NRGie]

Any opinions on Motul X-clean 8100?

I used to use Mobil1 in my old car but switched to this since I get a deal on it.

[btimbit]

Originally posted by G-ZUS
Where can one pick up Rotella or Lubro-moly in town?

Concept-1 has some Lubro-Moly

[heavyfuel]

I don't believe in going too crazy with extended drain intervals. Internals remain protected well past normal intervals, yes. But even the best of the best filters out there will not trap 100% of contaminants. And that is what eats your seals. Trucks with blown rear mains at 100k are pretty common, and one thing they all have in common is that they've had 3 maybe 4 oil changes at that point. I can see where synthetic would have its benefits for higher revving vehicles and engines with tighter clearances, and even then I'd go 7500kms max between changes. But for trucks and vehicles that will never even see 5000 rpm I wouldn't waste my money on synthetic.

Common sense, reasonable intervals>brand/type/weight.

[Zero102]

Originally posted by heavyfuel
I don't believe in going too crazy with extended drain intervals. Internals remain protected well past normal intervals, yes. But even the best of the best filters out there will not trap 100% of contaminants. And that is what eats your seals. Trucks with blown rear mains at 100k are pretty common, and one thing they all have in common is that they've had 3 maybe 4 oil changes at that point. I can see where synthetic would have its benefits for higher revving vehicles and engines with tighter clearances, and even then I'd go 7500kms max between changes. But for trucks and vehicles that will never even see 5000 rpm I wouldn't waste my money on synthetic.

Common sense, reasonable intervals>brand/type/weight.

I think a large number of trucks having failed rear main seals at 100k points to another issue.... When people talk about abrasive particles in the oil and contaminant concentrations the primary concern would be for the engines bearings, not the rubber seals. Have you done oil analysis on these engines? Without that this is anecdotal at best.


A large number of vehicles from a range of manufacturers have been studied through users posting their UOAs on a couple of forums (most notably BITOG) and I think the general consensus on these sites is that extended drain intervals are an overwhelmingly positive thing when the intervals are determined through the correct process.

To add more anecdotes to the pile, I ran 30,000-32,000km intervals on my 05 golf TDI and never had any seal failures as a result, and the abrasive particle concentrations and wear metal concentrations were all well below levels that would be of any concern.

[heavyfuel]

Originally posted by Zero102


I think a large number of trucks having failed rear main seals at 100k points to another issue.... When people talk about abrasive particles in the oil and contaminant concentrations the primary concern would be for the engines bearings, not the rubber seals. Have you done oil analysis on these engines? Without that this is anecdotal at best.


A large number of vehicles from a range of manufacturers have been studied through users posting their UOAs on a couple of forums (most notably BITOG) and I think the general consensus on these sites is that extended drain intervals are an overwhelmingly positive thing when the intervals are determined through the correct process.

To add more anecdotes to the pile, I ran 30,000-32,000km intervals on my 05 golf TDI and never had any seal failures as a result, and the abrasive particle concentrations and wear metal concentrations were all well below levels that would be of any concern.

I know that this isn't the only cause of seal failure, and and thru proper analysis it can be done safely for sure.

I'd rather crawl under my truck every 5000kms and know that I'm good for another 5000, rather than deal with those kinds of hassles tho. We could go on all month about dino juice vs. synthetic and get absolutely nowhere.

[Zero102]

Originally posted by heavyfuel


I know that this isn't the only cause of seal failure, and and thru proper analysis it can be done safely for sure.

I'd rather crawl under my truck every 5000kms and know that I'm good for another 5000, rather than deal with those kinds of hassles tho. We could go on all month about dino juice vs. synthetic and get absolutely nowhere.

Nobody here was arguing about conventionals being just as good as synthetics :confused:

This thread was about the necessity of a high mileage synthetic oil, and also about group III vs group IV/V synthetic oils.

You go ahead and climb under your truck every 5000kms. I will be waiting for my warranty to run out then switching to extended drain intervals on my elantra, and I am already running extended intervals on all other vehicles in our family. We each have our own preference and that's perfectly fine.

[heavyfuel]

Originally posted by Zero102


Nobody here was arguing about conventionals being just as good as synthetics :confused:

This thread was about the necessity of a high mileage synthetic oil, and also about group III vs group IV/V synthetic oils.

You go ahead and climb under your truck every 5000kms. I will be waiting for my warranty to run out then switching to extended drain intervals on my elantra, and I am already running extended intervals on all other vehicles in our family. We each have our own preference and that's perfectly fine.

Medals are every 2nd Tuesday:thumbsup:


"climb" under my truck eh? watch the edit now lmao

[germanmuscle]

Originally posted by G-ZUS
Where can one pick up Rotella or Lubro-moly in town?

There is a guy on eurodrivers.ca that sells lubromoly/motul and lots of other stuff
http://www.eurodrivers.ca/forums/showthread.php?23141-Feeler-OIL-Group-Buy

[CapnCrunch]

Originally posted by heavyfuel


I know that this isn't the only cause of seal failure, and and thru proper analysis it can be done safely for sure.

I'd rather crawl under my truck every 5000kms and know that I'm good for another 5000, rather than deal with those kinds of hassles tho. We could go on all month about dino juice vs. synthetic and get absolutely nowhere.

No offense, but you won't really know anything.

I'd rather run 10,000 or 15,000 kms on an oil and back it up with a used oil analysis, than change my oil every 5000 kms and "guess" that it's okay.

They also measure dirt particles, fuel contamination, and coolant leaks (which saved me a new engine on my old Jeep).

[lilmira]

GC is on sale at crappy tire if anyone cares. I'm gonna pick up a dozen to restock.

[lilmira]

Just picked up a bunch of GC. Now I'm good for a year. ;)

FYI, Castrol changed the Syntec name to Edge with Syntec Power Technology (SPT). I checked the back of the 0W30 bottle and it's still made in Germany. It confused the heck out of me.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/castrol-rebrands-syntec-as-edge-with-spt-retaining-its-top-selling-formula-2012-03-14

[JZS_147]

Run Motul 300V

[heavyfuel]

Originally posted by CapnCrunch


No offense, but you won't really know anything.

I'd rather run 10,000 or 15,000 kms on an oil and back it up with a used oil analysis, than change my oil every 5000 kms and "guess" that it's okay.

They also measure dirt particles, fuel contamination, and coolant leaks (which saved me a new engine on my old Jeep).

To each their own. 5000 kms is a safe bet and has been the standard for a long time. Oil change frequency and type preferences are right up there with religion and politics, discussing it won't yield much of anything.

[CapnCrunch]

Originally posted by heavyfuel


To each their own. 5000 kms is a safe bet and has been the standard for a long time. Oil change frequency and type preferences are right up there with religion and politics, discussing it won't yield much of anything.

Toyota and Dodge has both had issues with sludged engines and 5000km oil changes. That's all I'm going to say.

[Zero102]

Originally posted by CapnCrunch


Toyota and Dodge has both had issues with sludged engines and 5000km oil changes. That's all I'm going to say.

Don't worry about responding to him, he will just resort to being insulting when you bring logic to the argument. Just add him to your ignore list and the problem goes away :D

[Maxt]

A few points, fuel injection doesn't wash down the cylinder
walls like carburetion did, especially under cold starts and running. That alone makes engines last a lot longer as well as oil.
Being an automaker though, you don't want your engines to last forever, just to make it outside the warranty period. Also when you offer marketing schemes like free oil changes for whatever period of ownership, you want that to cost you as little as possible while still making the consumer see good value in it and also promote some kind of environmental responsibility, which is always good marketing practice. So the best thing to do fit all that criteria is stretch the oil change interval out, luckily there are oils out there that can achieve that, but its still not thing to do really for the motor.

[msommers]

Agreed to some extent. I think that's a contributing factor why Toyota recommends me to use 0W20 Toyota oil which is actually a good quality synthetic. I believe it is slightly more fuel efficient as well. But at just under $5/L, I really don't care.

The most bizarre thing however is that in the US, the OCI interval is 10,000 miles, changed from the original 5,000 miles, if you're using that oil. However up here it is still 5,000 miles. I called Toyota about this and apparently because of our "severe conditions" they cannot recommend such a long OCI. I then asked about how different the weather is in Montana but she had no comment.

[heavyD]

Originally posted by Maxt
A few points, fuel injection doesn't wash down the cylinder
walls like carburetion did, especially under cold starts and running. That alone makes engines last a lot longer as well as oil.
Being an automaker though, you don't want your engines to last forever, just to make it outside the warranty period. Also when you offer marketing schemes like free oil changes for whatever period of ownership, you want that to cost you as little as possible while still making the consumer see good value in it and also promote some kind of environmental responsibility, which is always good marketing practice. So the best thing to do fit all that criteria is stretch the oil change interval out, luckily there are oils out there that can achieve that, but its still not thing to do really for the motor.

I don't know really how true that is as the combination of superior oils and engine design has probably more to do with the extended intervals than anything else. Ford added a deep sump oil pan to the 5.0L Coyote which now takes 8L or oil compared to 6L in the 4.6L engines. This enables longer intervals as there is more oil to circulate and helps longevity of the engine.

[sillysod]

I have 250,000km's on my high boost Audi and have done 10,000km synthetic changes since new. Compression tests are still well within specs on all cylinders. That being said I never abused my car. My TDI passat had over 500,000kms on it before my cousin clipped a guardrail with it and sent it to Manchester Auto Parts.

It's not as much the oil as how you take care of your car. My father in law has over 1.5 million kms on his 2009 Volvo tractor and he doesn't run synthetic. The biggest advantage of synthetic is on cold starts. If you plug in, let warm up and let it cool down after, the oil isn't really going to make much of a difference IMO.

[forced_eg]

I came across an s2ki thread where a turbocharger rebuilder recommended staying away from royal purple because of the amount of "cooked" turbos that he sees running that stuff, think theres any truth/studies to that?

[heavyfuel]

Originally posted by forced_eg
I came across an s2ki thread where a turbocharger rebuilder recommended staying away from royal purple because of the amount of "cooked" turbos that he sees running that stuff, think theres any truth/studies to that?

The truth is, IMO, overhyped properly marketed products that come in fancy purple bottles, do not belong in your engine.

[CapnCrunch]

Originally posted by forced_eg
I came across an s2ki thread where a turbocharger rebuilder recommended staying away from royal purple because of the amount of "cooked" turbos that he sees running that stuff, think theres any truth/studies to that?

I know Mobil 1 is probably one of the best (if not the best) for high temp turbos.

I have no clue about Royal Purple.

[J-hop]

Originally posted by CapnCrunch


Toyota and Dodge has both had issues with sludged engines and 5000km oil changes. That's all I'm going to say.

Wait, are you using this example to imply that sludge build up is the result of more frequent oil changes!?!?!?

Sludge build up is a byproduct of the breakdown of oil, ie: either poor quality oil or running the oil too long for the application (or a combination of the two along with possible design flaws). See the 325(?) 50k first "oil change" thread for reference.

Heavyfuel is right, it's like asking people to all agree on a single political party or what color jelly bean is superior. This could be argued for years on end.

At the end of the day though, doing more frequent oil changes is technically better, there is no logical argument I've ever heard against that. But is it necessary(ie is the cost/time worth the benefits)? Well that again like jelly beans is a personal preference and arguing that goes no where.

[CapnCrunch]

Originally posted by J-hop


Wait, are you using this example to imply that sludge build up is the result of more frequent oil changes!?!?!?



:confused:

No, both Dodge and Toyota had engines that sludged up if you changed the oil at 5000km intervals.

My point was that someone who runs oil for 10000kms and gets their oil analyzed is better off than someone who blindly changes it a 5000kms and assumes all is well.

[heavyfuel]

Originally posted by CapnCrunch


:confused:

No, both Dodge and Toyota had engines that sludged up if you changed the oil at 5000km intervals.

My point was that someone who runs oil for 10000kms and gets their oil analyzed is better off than someone who blindly changes it a 5000kms and assumes all is well.

Air filtration plays a huge, and often overlooked role in sludge buildup too.

[J-hop]

Originally posted by CapnCrunch


:confused:

No, both Dodge and Toyota had engines that sludged up if you changed the oil at 5000km intervals.

My point was that someone who runs oil for 10000kms and gets their oil analyzed is better off than someone who blindly changes it a 5000kms and assumes all is well.

I see what you were saying, heavyfuel was arguing for more frequent oil changes (using 5k as his interval) and the you made that comment so I thought you were trying to say something else.

I highly doubt heavy just changes it every 5k and then never checks the oil ever, and if you have an engine sludging up at 5k you'll kill it if you push it to 10k before a change and it won't be long before you don't have an engine to do an analysis on :D.

I'm the same as heavy, VW recommends 8k between synthetic changes, I change at 5k, car has 150k on it and oil is still a nice light golden brown everytime. I like black jelly beans you are all wrong if you like a different color :nut:

[CapnCrunch]

Originally posted by J-hop


I see what you were saying, heavyfuel was arguing for more frequent oil changes (using 5k as his interval) and the you made that comment so I thought you were trying to say something else.

I highly doubt heavy just changes it every 5k and then never checks the oil ever, and if you have an engine sludging up at 5k you'll kill it if you push it to 10k before a change and it won't be long before you don't have an engine to do an analysis on :D.

I'm the same as heavy, VW recommends 8k between synthetic changes, I change at 5k, car has 150k on it and oil is still a nice light golden brown everytime. I like black jelly beans you are all wrong if you like a different color :nut:

The reality is that none of us will likely have an oil related engine failure, regardless of which oil we choose or how long we choose to use it.

[J-hop]

Originally posted by CapnCrunch


The reality is that none of us will likely have an oil related engine failure, regardless of which oil we choose or how long we choose to use it.

Agreed!