Driving/Racing Schools

[msommers]

Have been quite interested in improving my driving skills but I'm a little lost on where to start. I'm looking at schools all over the world, list your favorites and comments.

Cheers.

EDIT: Something like this, just to give an idea. http://www.jimrussell.com/en/schedules.cfm

Not sure if there are really school reviews or if I'd need ot just get in and do it.

[Modelexis]

Did you ever attend a track day at race city while it was around?

I'm ashamed to have only attended one racing session and let me tell you, this is a great tool to learn driving skills. They had instructors on hand to drive with you and give you pointers. So sad.

You could build a cheap autocross car and join the autox club and get out and race. This is probably the cheapest option to get seat time and get the basics down.
This is my plan this summer, get out to as many autox events as possible.

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

Auto X is great, and everyone is really helpful and will even go for ride alongs and let you ride along too.

[Murray Peterson]

If you want formal instruction (autox), you can sign up for the SoloPro school being held this June at Fort Macleod:

http://cscc.speedracer.ca/forums/index.php?topic=11083

[msommers]

How much would a track pig set me back though? Not terribly keen on buying another vehicle, was hoping to have vehicles provided.

[rage2]

If you have the cash, the AMG driving academy is awesome. They provide the cars.

There's a program right now to drive a SLS, C63BS, C63 or SLK55 on the nordschleife for 3 days. On the 4th day you drive a SLS GT3 racecar on the grand prix circuit. Hotels and transportation provided. You just show up.

There's also cheaper programs that focus on snow/ice with their 4matic cars, and other track programs with other AMGs. Instructors are ex DTM racers.

Prices range from 3k to the 15k Nurburgring experience.

[SideSwipe]

They have lots in the states that I highly recommend you go to seeing as they fit your requirements of both teaching you and proving you with vehicles to use... some cases with an almost unlimited supply of vehicles to use in case something happens to one (Tire wear, overheating, etc).

http://www.springmountainmotorsports.com/ ---> Corvettes (C6, C6Z06, GrandSports).

http://www.bondurant.com/ (same as spring mountain but MOAR!)--->There is a good possibility that you can go for a spin around a racetrack with Bob in a GT40 or some 1960's race car :eek:. Or he chases you around the track in a ZR1.

http://www.millermotorsportspark.com/ ---> Mustangs, Usually GT's I think. As well as FR500S's :love:

All schools have different experience levels and most operate off of a graduated system. You can't take a, say, level2 course without a level 1. They also have lapping sessions, and you can come back as much as you like for advanced lapping sessions (usually 1/2 day of instruction or so and then driving).

All the stuff you learn, while it appears very race-ish, is usable on the streets as well: Vision, over-steer, under-steer, etc.

Of course there are the local schools but without race city... you get the idea. :cry:

[Sugarphreak]

...

[msommers]

Rage2 and SideSwip, do either of you have experience with the schools you each mentioned?

I was planning on the trip last year actually with my Infiniti however I went to Europe instead and have since sold that vehicle. I don't have the space or desire right now to maintain an extra vehicle, which I have a feeling would end up being a giant money sink (because I can't help modding..ha).

I'm also looking at the Allen Berg 3-day formula racing course. Has anyone used this school before?

[DEATH2000]

Originally posted by rage2
If you have the cash, the AMG driving academy is awesome. They provide the cars.

There's a program right now to drive a SLS, C63BS, C63 or SLK55 on the nordschleife for 3 days. On the 4th day you drive a SLS GT3 racecar on the grand prix circuit. Hotels and transportation provided. You just show up.

There's also cheaper programs that focus on snow/ice with their 4matic cars, and other track programs with other AMGs. Instructors are ex DTM racers.

Prices range from 3k to the 15k Nurburgring experience.
You should sponsor a Beyond Member to attend with you!



Being as it was my suggestion, can i go first??? :D

[rage2]

I don't have personal experience with the AMG academy, will probably do my first one this year or next year now that Race City is gone. From the people I've talked to that have done it, it's better than the Porsche Driving schools.

[94boosted]

Originally posted by Murray Peterson
If you want formal instruction (autox), you can sign up for the SoloPro school being held this June at Fort Macleod:

http://cscc.speedracer.ca/forums/index.php?topic=11083


Originally posted by Sugarphreak


This!

Probably one of the best schools (if not the very best) you can take locally. The Solo Pro instructors come in from the US, all have multiple championships under their belts and bring a ridiculous amount of experience to the table. I'd highly recommended it if you are serious about learning how to drive competitively.


:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Awesome, awesome schools and for $300/school you can't go wrong. Did the intro school last year and I think I'm going to do the comp school this year.




Also the Winter/Ice Driver Training Schools put on my the SASC are quite good and the schools are super cheap ($50).

[rage2]

I think the OP is looking for schools where cars are provided.

[SideSwipe]

Originally posted by msommers
Rage2 and SideSwip, do either of you have experience with the schools you each mentioned?
. . .
I'm also looking at the Allen Berg 3-day formula racing course. Has anyone used this school before?

I do. I've been to bondurant a few time, and people that I've met that both frequently visits bobs place and race in some series usually recommend stopping by spring mountain and Miller. Bobs place is a good place to start. You probably won't be able to leave after... Hahaha. They have a formula Mazda lappig session as well... I think it's part of the 3 day grand prix course (check it out on the website I provided... It's good.)

Allen berg is also very good. He taught me how to drive karts... Which is very fun and teaches you lots of the fundamentals. Berg is also a good place to start... But no race city unless he moved to a track down south(?)

[Modelexis]

This might sound obvious and maybe I'm missing something, but if you have no interest in doing any regular racing why do you want to go to a racing school?

You don't need a race car for autox, a stock econo box will work just fine.

I would recommend coming out to an event, check it out and try to get into the passenger seat for a ride along.

[msommers]

Appreciate the responses.

As for your question, Modelexis, if racing is something that I'm seriously looking into then yes I may buy a vehicle that will strictly be a track pig. My perspective is that to get a really good feel of what I'd like to eventually get into (formula), then it makes the most sense to try that first rather than buy a miata and auto-x. Hope that helps clear some confusion.

Matt

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by msommers
Appreciate the responses.

As for your question, Modelexis, if racing is something that I'm seriously looking into then yes I may buy a vehicle that will strictly be a track pig. My perspective is that to get a really good feel of what I'd like to eventually get into (formula), then it makes the most sense to try that first rather than buy a miata and auto-x. Hope that helps clear some confusion.

Matt

If you want to get into any of the Formula style cars, then go to a formula style school. Allen Berg would have been perfect for you, if Race City was still around. Of course, he isn't simply limited to Calgary, so you can still go.

If you've never been, a lapping day is a great way to get a feel for racing. Stratotech in Fort Sask. still runs Time Attacks and lapping days, but in all honesty, nothing will prepare you for wheel to wheel racing quite like doing it. I would suggest a school, and then RENT your choice of formula-style car for a race weekend. Not cheap, but cheaper than going all in and buying. Also, having all of the logistics of a first race covered for you is bliss.

My 2 cents. Out of anyone who has posted in this thread, how many of you have actual racing experience? Murray auto-x's a ton, I know that. I've done road racing, rally, and time attack fairly competitively, and going to many of the "schools" mentioned isn't what you are looking for if you want to do actual wheel to wheel racing.

You should look at making a post on the CSCC's website (cscc.speedracer.ca) as there would be more help there. And not to slag on auto-x, but if you aren't planning on auto-x'ing, I'd skip it. EVERY LITTLE BIT HELPS, but I would not "just" do the auto-x school and think you even have the jist of what it's like to be on track with 30 other cars!

Edit-
Not that you need to be reminded of the last bit, you obviously know this, but just to reiterate!

[n1zm0]

i was thinking of trying allen berg kart school this upcoming june, i see the van near my house everyday and decided to visit the website, ~$400 to take a 1 day course. it's not a car but 0-60 in 5 and up to 2Gs cornering, seems pretty interesting

[rage2]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1
My 2 cents. Out of anyone who has posted in this thread, how many of you have actual racing experience? Murray auto-x's a ton, I know that. I've done road racing, rally, and time attack fairly competitively, and going to many of the "schools" mentioned isn't what you are looking for if you want to do actual wheel to wheel racing.
I didn't get a mention? I used to be the biggest auto-x and lapping whore. At one point, I was competing or lapping 4x a week and blowing through 2 sets of tires a month haha.

Wish I got into road racing though, never had a chance to do any real wheel to wheel racing, except for karting.


Originally posted by HiTempguy1
And not to slag on auto-x, but if you aren't planning on auto-x'ing, I'd skip it. EVERY LITTLE BIT HELPS, but I would not "just" do the auto-x school and think you even have the jist of what it's like to be on track with 30 other cars!
I agree. Also, if you're looking for track time, AutoX isn't really worth it. It'll take you forever to get enough experience to be competitive. I learned how to drive from real street racing in my early teens, and tons of laps in different cars at lapping days later on. You have 4 runs to nail a perfect lap on a course you have never driven on, that's what makes AutoX fun. 4 mins of track time per event doesn't teach you much.

[msommers]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1
I would suggest a school, and then RENT your choice of formula-style car for a race weekend. Not cheap, but cheaper than going all in and buying. Also, having all of the logistics of a first race covered for you is bliss.

Do you have more information this? Sounds exactly what I'm after.

Allen Berg still has a school in California and there is another formula school not far from Montreal - prices are very close. The Bondurant Grand Prix 3-4 day course mixes it up a bit between which I like as well.

Again, appreciate the feedback.

[Murray Peterson]

Originally posted by rage2

I agree. Also, if you're looking for track time, AutoX isn't really worth it. It'll take you forever to get enough experience to be competitive. I learned how to drive from real street racing in my early teens, and tons of laps in different cars at lapping days later on. You have 4 runs to nail a perfect lap on a course you have never driven on, that's what makes AutoX fun. 4 mins of track time per event doesn't teach you much.

Hmm, I have to disagree (slightly) with you. The reason I love autox and rallyx is that it is one of the few sport variations where I can really, truly drive my car at "ten tenths" every single second. When the speeds get up higher or other cars get beside you, I find that almost everyone backs off a bit -- for darn good reasons. Not many people are really willing to take the risks of living at the edge with their own vehicle (and body). I love the feeling of having my car slither around a corner at some nice yaw angle, but not many people like that feeling at turn 1 when you are doing 150 kph and have cars on either side of you :)

You get less seat time per event in autox, but every second is about driving your car at the outer limit of control and usually a bit beyond. The OP asked about improving his driving skills -- I would argue that autox/rallyx are the best for this.

I haven't tried karting yet, but it sounds like the really fun way to get into wheel to wheel racing while still "living at the edge". Not nearly as huge a penalty for taking that corner just a bit too fast :)

[94boosted]

Originally posted by Murray Peterson


Hmm, I have to disagree (slightly) with you. The reason I love autox and rallyx is that it is one of the few sport variations where I can really, truly drive my car at "ten tenths" every single second. When the speeds get up higher or other cars get beside you, I find that almost everyone backs off a bit -- for darn good reasons. Not many people are really willing to take the risks of living at the edge with their own vehicle (and body). I love the feeling of having my car slither around a corner at some nice yaw angle, but not many people like that feeling at turn 1 when you are doing 150 kph and have cars on either side of you :)

You get less seat time per event in autox, but every second is about driving your car at the outer limit of control and usually a bit beyond. The OP asked about improving his driving skills -- I would argue that autox/rallyx are the best for this.

I haven't tried karting yet, but it sounds like the really fun way to get into wheel to wheel racing while still "living at the edge". Not nearly as huge a penalty for taking that corner just a bit too fast :)

:werd:

And in most auto-x events it's 6-8 runs per day (granted that the course changes slightly after the first 3-4) + fun runs ;)

The nice thing about the SoloPro Schools is you get a lot of seat time you probably make more passes in one day at the school than you will for the rest of the season in regular events so you really do learn a lot and get a good feel for auto-x and if you like it or not.

But if OP is more interested in wheel to wheel racing then auto-x is definitely not his thing

[rage2]

OK 6-8 runs, that's 8 mins of split up running time. That's like 5 laps on a lapping day where you stop 8 times. You're not going to come close to driving 10/10ths with so little track time haha. It's like asking a rookie to qualify pole in a F1 race with no testing.

AutoX is awesome if you already have a solid background in driving. Very little opportunity to run a perfect lap, and that's where the challenge is. I did 3 years of AutoX, and I've only come remotely close to a 10/10ths lap twice, where my 2 best laps were within 1/100ths of each other. Even then, realistically, it was probably an 8/10ths lap... I'm sure a professional driver would've been able to hop in the car and smoke that laptime.

[94boosted]

Originally posted by rage2
OK 6-8 runs, that's 8 mins of split up running time. That's like 5 laps on a lapping day where you stop 8 times. You're not going to come close to driving 10/10ths with so little track time haha. It's like asking a rookie to qualify pole in a F1 race with no testing.

AutoX is awesome if you already have a solid background in driving. Very little opportunity to run a perfect lap, and that's where the challenge is. I did 3 years of AutoX, and I've only come remotely close to a 10/10ths lap twice, where my 2 best laps were within 1/100ths of each other. Even then, realistically, it was probably an 8/10ths lap... I'm sure a professional driver would've been able to hop in the car and smoke that laptime.

Your totaly right about not getting a lot of seat time in auto-x..... a 9 hour day yields about 6-10 minutes of driving lol. But there is not much else to do in Calgary & area anymore.

And IMO driving at 10/10ths doesn't nescesairly mean your very good/fast it just means your at the limit of the car :rofl: either way not something you do in wheel to wheel racing or even on a track unless ofcourse you are really, very good

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by Murray Peterson

When the speeds get up higher or other cars get beside you, I find that almost everyone backs off a bit -- for darn good reasons. Not many people are really willing to take the risks of living at the edge with their own vehicle (and body).

Then you are not actually "racing". When people ask these questions, I make the assumption that if they are going to drop $50k in one year on a "hobby", good isn't good enough, they want "best". My advice delivers that. I race to compete, and it is "fun" to push as hard as I can. The chances of bodily harm in racing (or damage to your car) is significantly lower than your trip to the office in the morning, so in fact those are HORRIBLE reasons based in irrationality. I auto-x'd for years (non-competitively due to car selection) and it is nothing like being on track. It does help familiarize yourself with a cold car, and gets you comfortable racing on pavement. As I said, if you have a car that you can throw r-compounds on and hit auto-x's, EVERY BIT HELPS. But I would not go out of my way to be competitive/buy a car for it.

Also, 10 runs in a day at an auto-x might equal one session out of the two or three you'd get doing time attack, and things do change in how you deal with a car at two times the speed.


I didn't get a mention? I used to be the biggest auto-x and lapping whore. At one point, I was competing or lapping 4x a week and blowing through 2 sets of tires a month haha.

But no competitive racing beyond auto-x, which we agree isn't where he should focus his efforts.

[Murray Peterson]

I don't think comparing seat time is a useful comparison between the sports. For that matter, the various race track sports have little in common. Time Attack isn't the same sport as a Chump Car race.

In other words, it just comes down to personal taste.

The OP should really try auto-x, karting, lapping, etc. to see which he prefers. Auto-x does have the advantage of being the cheapest one to try out. Free if he just want to go for a few rides.

[msommers]

Thanks all to for the words of advice, its given me more to think about.

[rage2]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1
But no competitive racing beyond auto-x, which we agree isn't where he should focus his efforts.
I'm under the impression that the OP doesn't have any experience at all, hence attending a school. I doubt he'd want to go straight into wheel to wheel racing. :rofl:

[Murray Peterson]

Auto-x schools for novices being hel at both Edmonton and Fort Macleod:

http://mrheavyfoot.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=2532
http://sascsolo.ca/forums/index.php?showtopic=1150&st=0


You won't get driving instruction for less money anywhere.

[Skyline_Addict]

Originally posted by Murray Peterson


Hmm, I have to disagree (slightly) with you. The reason I love autox and rallyx is that it is one of the few sport variations where I can really, truly drive my car at "ten tenths" every single second. When the speeds get up higher or other cars get beside you, I find that almost everyone backs off a bit -- for darn good reasons. Not many people are really willing to take the risks of living at the edge with their own vehicle (and body). I love the feeling of having my car slither around a corner at some nice yaw angle, but not many people like that feeling at turn 1 when you are doing 150 kph and have cars on either side of you :)

You get less seat time per event in autox, but every second is about driving your car at the outer limit of control and usually a bit beyond. The OP asked about improving his driving skills -- I would argue that autox/rallyx are the best for this.

I haven't tried karting yet, but it sounds like the really fun way to get into wheel to wheel racing while still "living at the edge". Not nearly as huge a penalty for taking that corner just a bit too fast :)

Great post which applies to 99% of people out there. Auto-X is a great way to hone your driving skills in an environment that is not as unforgiving to mistakes. Auto-X is also good in the sense that it is an equalizer, as horsepower and even drivertrain don't factor too much into laptimes. It really is more about the skill.

I drive and enjoy cars which shine in the long winding twisties as opposed to 90 degree turns in first gear. But I enjoyed doing auto-x as you surround yourself with great people who are passionate about performance driving and would surely help refine your driving skills.