Contractors wrecked one of my tiles - opinions please

[Mitsu3000gt]

So, long story short I'm still dealing with renos/headaches from the flood in my condo that happened on Jan 1.

I am having MAJOR issues with quality of work done by the contractors the service company is using to do various work in my condo. Had to have them come back a couple of times to do the simplest of jobs right (eg. my kickplates under my kitchen cupboards). I've only recently won the battle to have them put down job sheets, as the first time they came in my house I spent an entire evening cleaning drywall dust and drywall mud off of my kitchen floor, counters, and small/large appliances.

Anyways, I come home on Friday to see they broke a piece off of one of my kitchen floor tiles. This happened in another unit, and they told the guy that they don't make that tile anymore (same tile I have - 12 years old), and they glued it back together. It looks like absolute trash. The other guy signed off on the work, and he admitted to me that he regretted that after.

1) My question for you guys is is it reasonable to demand it be fixed to 100% original condition, even if it means fighting for a new floor? Or should I suck it up, let them glue it back, and have that spot on my floor look like shit.

My opinion is that it's not my problem what costs are involved to fix my floor back to 100%, because their carelessness broke it in the first place.

2) Also, does anyone know what my recourse is if I'm not happy with the work? If I refuse to sign off on it, will the insurance company still pay them? Or might they argue it's "to spec" and still get their money.

Thanks for any suggestions - I hate having people in my house when I'm not home, and every time they come in here, they seem to cause a new headache for me.

[Weapon_R]

Do you have a picture of the tile?

[dj_rice]

I recently came into the same situation as you but instead mine involved a leak from the hot water return into my building and them replacing hardwood laminate.

They asked if couldn't find the same laminate, they would use a different product. I refused and told them, if you can't find the same color material, you will guys will replacing the whole unit flooring as its their leak that caused the damage and won't accept less.


Its your unit, any damage from leaks etc etc caused from the condo building to your unit is there responsible to fix and bring back to 100% the state it was before. If you don't like their quality, keep complaining to the property manager till you get a resolution.

Take pictures of everything and submit your complaint to property manager. Complain to the condo board, thats what they are there for. To fight on your behalf.

On a sidenote, I've had 10 major leaks in my condo ever since I moved in 4 years ago. All leaks were caused from their hot water lines coming into my unit so I never had to pay a dime for repairs but we recently fired our old condo management company and are using a new one. The old management company really fubared up my flooring, and I couldnt get a resolution with them since they no longer were in charge of repairs and new condo board wouldn't repair it since it wasn't there damage.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by Weapon_R
Do you have a picture of the tile?

Yup, it's admittedly relatively minor, but I've seen what they look like glued together and it looks terrible. My point is that it wasn't like that before, and I don't feel like I should have to bend over and take it when they wreck things in my house.

The reason there is concrete beside it, is because my hardwood floor was removed (the one good thing that came of all this is I'm getting new hardwood).

http://mschlosser.smugmug.com/photos/i-mT9ppKs/0/L/i-mT9ppKs-L.jpg

And this is what they wanted me to accept when they replaced my baseboards (notice the F'd up wall):

http://mschlosser.smugmug.com/photos/i-qHfdSb9/0/L/i-qHfdSb9-L.jpg

Sorry they are cell phone pics.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by dj_rice
I recently came into the same situation as you but instead mine involved a leak from the hot water return into my building and them replacing hardwood laminate.

They asked if couldn't find the same laminate, they would use a different product. I refused and told them, if you can't find the same color material, you will guys will replacing the whole unit flooring as its their leak that caused the damage and won't accept less.


Its your unit, any damage from leaks etc etc caused from the condo building to your unit is there responsible to fix and bring back to 100% the state it was before. If you don't like their quality, keep complaining to the property manager till you get a resolution.

Take pictures of everything and submit your complaint to property manager. Complain to the condo board, thats what they are there for. To fight on your behalf.

On a sidenote, I've had 10 major leaks in my condo ever since I moved in 4 years ago. All leaks were caused from their hot water lines coming into my unit so I never had to pay a dime for repairs but we recently fired our old condo management company and are using a new one. The old management company really fubared up my flooring, and I couldnt get a resolution with them since they no longer were in charge of repairs and new condo board wouldn't repair it since it wasn't there damage.

This damage isn't from the leak though, it's ADDITIONAL damage caused directly by careless tradesmen working in my house when I am at work. So far I've managed to get the insurance adjuster to agree to replace everything that was water damaged. Huge delays and headaches are being caused by damage caused by people in my place trying to repair the flood damage.

I would have absolutely no issues, and all my repairs would already be complete a month ago if the repair/replacement work in my place was done properly, and right the first time.

[derek_k]

i would not let them just glue it back together, do you have the same tile anywhere else in your condo, preferably a closet or somewhere hidden, you could ask them to pop the one tile, grab a mint one from your closet and relay it back down, and put the broken one in your closet were it doesnt bother you as much. i would speak with your insurance company for sure and see what they would recommend for you to do. is your insurance company paying them as they do the work or is it going to be one lump sum at the end of the renovation.

trades in calgary are terrible for the most part, im sure there are quality working trades that clean after themselves and take pride in their work they do, but as for the other 99% of them, they dont give a fuck, all they want is there money and to get the fuck out of that house, tons of trades bitch and complain whenever they have a service call to do on their own work that they fucked up on.

THIS is the reason why renos have such a bad reputation. i would almost talk to your insurance company and demand you have a new renovation company of YOUR choice come in to finish the work that needs to be done properly. after you get those goofs to fix your tile.

good luck with the rest of your reno

[Mitsu3000gt]

It's the Building's insurance company that is paying for all this, not my own. Also, there is a service company managing the trades, that my building's insurance company is paying to handle the whole ordeal (from the initial cleanup all the way through the renovation/restoration process).

The problem is if I have to go through my OWN insurance company to fix damage directly caused by contractors, I have to pay a deductible and rate increases for X amount of time.

My personal condo insurance is not involved, and I don't want them to be because there is no reason, and it would cost me lots of money to do so.

Also, I know that they knocked a painting off the wall in another guy's unit, and they told him too bad, call your own insurance company (meaning he has to pay deductible + rate increases if he wants the painting replaced). So, I already know they are going to fight me tooth and nail on this. That guy is still fighting to have his painting replaced when it was 100% the fault of one of the workers.

I'd really rather them not take out one of my good tiles somewhere else and replace this one, because THEY broke it, and it wasn't broken in the first place. I don't want to have to suck it up and accept a floor worse than it was before they came into my house just because someone was careless (seems to be a theme with them talking to other owners).

[derek_k]

i would recommend what dj rice said than, going to the condo board, there is no need to be going through your own personal insurance unless it was directly related to something you did to your own condo by accident.
it really sounds like the landlord doesnt care about how their condos look after this renovation. i dont understand how they dont think they are liable to fix that guys painting, wtf is wrong with the world.

[revelations]

Name of contractor?

[kenny]

Them compensating you for broken tile, fair.

Them compensating you by replacing your entire (12 year old) floor because that partial tile being cracked, unreasonable.

Is it possible to have the hardwood area enlarged so the damaged part of the tile can just be removed completely? The hardwood is being replaced anyway.

[KeepItGully]

Originally posted by kenny
Is it possible to have the hardwood area enlarged so the damaged part of the tile can just be removed completely? The hardwood is being replaced anyway.

This.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by kenny
Them compensating you for broken tile, fair.

Them compensating you by replacing your entire (12 year old) floor because that partial tile being cracked, unreasonable.

Is it possible to have the hardwood area enlarged so the damaged part of the tile can just be removed completely? The hardwood is being replaced anyway.

Well, that's why I'm asking here. I'm trying to figure out what's reasonable. I've just had SO MANY headaches from these people that I'm tired of fighting with them every single time they come into my house and break something when they are supposed to be fixing everything. There is about 60-70 sq feet of that tile, it wouldn't be that major to just replace the whole thing if they were willing to. They break something, and then I'm forced to accept a sub-par repair job or told to just live with it.

Not really possible to extend the hardwood - there is a pretty clear separation between kitchen/tile and living room/hardwood. I would then also have to have hardwood in front of my dishwasher and in my kitchen, which I do not want.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by revelations
Name of contractor?

Don't want to throw them under the bus just yet, in case they actually fix all my problems. I won't know until early this week. Based on all previous happenings, though, and talking to other owners having similar issues, it's unlikely.

[C_Dave45]

Originally posted by kenny
Them compensating you for broken tile, fair.

Them compensating you by replacing your entire (12 year old) floor because that partial tile being cracked, unreasonable.

Is it possible to have the hardwood area enlarged so the damaged part of the tile can just be removed completely? The hardwood is being replaced anyway.

Valid point. But taking the hardwood an additional 1" to cover that broken piece will look worse than a repair.




Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt


Don't want to throw them under the bus just yet, in case they actually fix all my problems. I won't know until early this week. Based on all previous happenings, though, and talking to other owners having similar issues, it's unlikely.

Wise decision. A trade breaking that tile isn't indicative of their expertise. And to be fair, the reason that tile broke, is because the original installer didn't give 100% contact with the thinset. There is a void under that piece, that's why it broke.
The best way to fix it (if you don't have a replacement piece) is: carefully take the broken piece up. Remove all existing grout and thinset residue, and set the piece back tightly against the rest of the tile. It should go together better than the way it's sitting now (with that sharp jagged piece sticking out). Then grout the hairline crack with a matching grout to the tile (not the existing grout). You will hardly notice the crack.

[raceman6135]

Could they maybe put in a wider transition/threshold between the tile and hardwood? Something like:

http://www.inlandecho.com/images/stories/gerry-april_16_xt_030-450px.jpg

or...

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.diylife.com/media/2010/03/lance-armstrong-kitchen-inlaid-tile-floor-590ls032210.jpg

[Mitsu3000gt]

I think I may just let them cut the tile and extend the hardwood up to the wooden piece you see in the picture which separates the dishwasher from the rest of the room. The only issue is that the hardwood won't make a straight line flush with the edge of the kitchen island which is to the left anymore - I haven't decided if that's a big deal or not yet.

Not sure how hard a job like that is, but the people currently working can't even seem to install baseboards properly (see above pic), so I'm a little worried.

[C_Dave45]

The problem is making a straight and clean cut on the tile. And especially when you get close to that gable as well as against the wall at the other side.
The only way to cut the tile is with a mini-grinder and diamond blade. Trying to do that perfectly straight and not get any chips, is not as easy as you think. I wouldn't even try that if it was my own tile job and it was *me* that was doing it. Let alone a bunch of amateur floor layers/labourers.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Well I don't like the sounds of that.

Can they pull the tiles, cut them, and re-set them? Or should I not let them do that at all?

Bottom line here is they caused all these problems and I just know I'm going to end up getting screwed somehow.

[GTS4tw]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt
Well I don't like the sounds of that.

Can they pull the tiles, cut them, and re-set them? Or should I not let them do that at all?

Bottom line here is they caused all these problems and I just know I'm going to end up getting screwed somehow.

That "finished" base is terrible! I wouldn't let someone back in my house to use the bathroom after doing shit work like that, let alone allow them to ruin anything else of mine. Insurance is supposed to fix things back to their pre-claim condition, This isn't difficult to do but often the sub-contractor for the insurance company will cut corners since they are being paid for the job as a whole, you can resolve this by signing off on nothing and dealing with the contractor through the insurance company. Do not accept it if you aren't happy, you will regret it. They hope you will get fed up and give in, don't.

[heavyfuel]

I know it's a matter of principal and I'm with you there. The baseboard looks like shit and I'd want that fixed too. The tile crack, honestly, looks like a first world problem to me. The faster those guys get outta your house the less chances they'll wreck something else.

[derek_k]

Did they even fill the nail holes on the base, in the pics they look exposed

[GTS4tw]

Nail holes not filled, poor caulking job, no paint, dent in the wall which will require the removal of that piece of base to do a seamless repair... They should be removing that base, fixing the dent, painting the wall, pre coat the base, attach to wall, fill holes and caulk edge, top coat base. Anything less is worthless and will be too much of a pain in the ass to fix yourself.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Thanks for the replies guys. Im writing from my phone so I don't have time to reply to everyone but can someone tell me if the hardwood transition would cover the cut if I let them cut my tile? They claim they can cut straight and that the transition would cover it.

[C_Dave45]

Is it laminate flooring they're putting in there? If it is and it's a floating floor then yes, those transitions will cover the tile and the tile edge doesn't have to be perfect. That would work

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by C_Dave45
Is it laminate flooring they're putting in there? If it is and it's a floating floor then yes, those transitions will cover the tile and the tile edge doesn't have to be perfect. That would work

Its going to be Torly's engineered Walnut hardwood. My floor is solid concrete and i think they jusy lay down some felt or something underneath as a "subfloor". Will that transition still work?

Thanks for your help.

[C_Dave45]

Yes that is a floating floor. Transitions look something like this, although you can get a thinner/lower profile.

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o312/CalgaryDave/f4b132cd.jpg

[Mitsu3000gt]

Awesome, thanks. I think I'll let them do this then. I found a way to make it a win-win because them extending the hardwood to the gable will also eliminate the 2-3" strip of tile that is annoying when I want to put something there due to the transition not stopping at the front of the gable.

[mr5oh]

Originally posted by dj_rice
I recently came into the same situation as you but instead mine involved a leak from the hot water return into my building and them replacing hardwood laminate.

They asked if couldn't find the same laminate, they would use a different product. I refused and told them, if you can't find the same color material, you will guys will replacing the whole unit flooring as its their leak that caused the damage and won't accept less.


Its your unit, any damage from leaks etc etc caused from the condo building to your unit is there responsible to fix and bring back to 100% the state it was before. If you don't like their quality, keep complaining to the property manager till you get a resolution.

Take pictures of everything and submit your complaint to property manager. Complain to the condo board, thats what they are there for. To fight on your behalf.

On a sidenote, I've had 10 major leaks in my condo ever since I moved in 4 years ago. All leaks were caused from their hot water lines coming into my unit so I never had to pay a dime for repairs but we recently fired our old condo management company and are using a new one. The old management company really fubared up my flooring, and I couldnt get a resolution with them since they no longer were in charge of repairs and new condo board wouldn't repair it since it wasn't there damage.

sounds like one of my rentals. Is this a downtown condo on 104th?

[ipeefreely]

Originally posted by mr5oh


sounds like one of my rentals. Is this a downtown condo on 104th?

ICON?

But I don't think dj_rice lives downton...

[Mitsu3000gt]

I've got an update, as well as one more question for you guys if you don't mind.

The work is all done now, the baseboards are fixed and done properly (silicon on top, painted, and holes filled), my new hardwood is in (looks awesome, so at least something good came of this), walls are painted, cabinets replaced, and I have all of my keys back.

The problem is that the contractors put their tools on top of my wine fridge and put big gouges in it down to the metal. Sounds minor, but it looks really bad. They are telling me "too bad, open a claim and go through your contents insurance", which is absolutely ridiculous because my deductible is either $500 or$1000 which is as much as the fridge, not to mention the premium increases. My argument to them was that the damage was done from a negligent trades worker (they put a big DeWalt radio on it, as well as some tools, and when they dragged it all off it gouged my fridge), and there were a million other places they could have put their tools. They went into my laundry room (outside the damaged work zone), and put their tools where they didn't need to be, causing the damage - it was not because I left the fridge in the "work zone".

They are trying to get me to sign off that the work is done and say that I'm happy with it. My question for you guys is exactly how much power do I have by NOT signing? My understanding is the insurance company won't pay them until I sign - is that true? Basically I just want to know if there's something I can hold over their head until they repair my fridge (you can probably buy a new fridge skin, or I'll happily take a new one).

It's actually quite ridiculous that literally every single time one of them entered my house, they damaged either part of my home or the contents. What bothers me the most is the amount of effort needed to PREVENT any of this damage would have taken literally 10 seconds (Job sheets, phone call to me, using their brain, etc.).

[ipeefreely]

Man you’re having a hard time with these idiots... :whipped:

I wouldn't sign off if I was you... just because the insurance company is paying them doesn't mean they can treat you and your condo like shit.

Call the insurance company and say that they damaged your fridge and you want them to fix it before you will sign off. They should be willing to help you... if not talk to your condo board again.

Oh ya, key their work truck and tell them "too bad, open a claim with your insurance company!" :rolleyes:


:devil:

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by ipeefreely
Man you’re having a hard time with these idiots... :whipped:

I wouldn't sign off if I was you... just because the insurance company is paying them doesn't mean they can treat you and your condo like shit.

Call the insurance company and say that they damaged your fridge and you want them to fix it before you will sign off. They should be willing to help you... if not talk to your condo board again.

Oh ya, key their work truck and tell them "too bad, open a claim with your insurance company!" :rolleyes:


:devil:

Haha yeah basically I tell them, ok so you would be OK with me going into your house and damaging something, because you can just open a contents insurance claim, right? And they have no reply.

I won't be signing a single thing until I am happy, but my worry is that the insurance company might pay them anyways if they can somehow convince them I'm being unreasonable. I actually even avoiding the "authorization to perform work" before all this started, so I wonder if that could help me out somehow.

They haven't replied to my last e-mail in almost 48 hours and I've been extremely civil, so my next step will be calling the property manager and the insurance company.

[CapnCrunch]

They should be responsible to fix it, but at this point I'd be hesitant having these morons back inside of my home.

[ipeefreely]

Originally posted by CapnCrunch
They should be responsible to fix it, but at this point I'd be hesitant having these morons back inside of my home.

He could have them leave a new one in the hallway when he's home! :rofl: :rofl:

[rob the knob]

don't sign off

send him registered letter with demand for payment
then take to small claims court

they should be wanting to pay you to avoid wasting time

[Mitsu3000gt]

My place is done, and I have all my keys back, so nobody is coming into my house. The fridge damage was something they did on their way out, so I guess that is sort of good? haha.

I sent an e-mail to the property manager today but haven't heard back. My guess is they are debating what to do, but we'll see if I get a response tomorrow.

I won't be signing anything, BUT do they actually care? What happens to them if I don't sign? I really don't know how much power I have.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Looks like my matter was elevated, and they are going to pay me the replacement cost of my wine fridge :thumbsup: This is my first "victory" haha. Thankfully they will not be in my house again.

Had I just agreed to everything I'd be out $500.

[ipeefreely]

Good to hear it worked out for you! :thumbsup:

They were probably thinking you would just walk away after all the trouble they put you through. :bullshit:

[schurchill39]

I've been following this thread. I am glad everything worked out. My dad does contract work and I remember growing up hearing all the stories about him being called in on jobs he wasn't originally contracted for to fix stupid things like this because of jackasses who didn't care about the person's house they were in.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by schurchill39
I've been following this thread. I am glad everything worked out. My dad does contract work and I remember growing up hearing all the stories about him being called in on jobs he wasn't originally contracted for to fix stupid things like this because of jackasses who didn't care about the person's house they were in.

Yeah basically it's a company hired to do the cleanup/restoration subcontracting literally the lowest possible quality labor, because they get paid in a huge lump sum, and if most people don't complain, or offer little resistance, they make way more money. Every person in my building I've talked to had issues with stuff being damaged by the contractors they used.

If I was actually paying for this work myself, I'd kick them off the job on the first day and find someone else.

I'm supposed to send them a receipt from my fridge on Monday, so we'll see if they actually pay it. They said they would.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Well apparently my ordeal is not over haha. They retracted their offer to buy me a new fridge and offered me $150. I told them once again I would like original condition compensation just like was originally promised to me, and i was told they need to talk to the "higher ups" again :facepalm: .