Hot Water Tanks.

[nzwasp]

I toured a show-home on the weekend and noticed that the hot water tank was 65L giant branded electric not gas. Is this becoming more common and is it cheaper to run than gas? my thoughts are no because gas is so so cheap at the moment vs the current power price.

[lauphman]

Cheaper to install for the builder because there's no need for a gas line and no need for venting.
But for the consumer it's not a good deal, it has a slower recovery rate and electricity isn't cheap.

[nzwasp]

Is tankless still gas powered? The builder we are planning to go with puts tankless into the home.

[GQBalla]

They can be either gas or electric

[C_Dave45]

Originally posted by nzwasp
Is tankless still gas powered? The builder we are planning to go with puts tankless into the home.

Do you not have an option of which to go with?
The pros of tankless over traditional don't necessarily outweigh the cons. Consider:



Gas tankless water heaters, which use high-powered burners to quickly heat water as it runs through a heat exchanger, were 22 percent more energy efficient on average than the gas-fired storage-tank models in our tests. That translates into a savings of around $70 to $80 per year, based on 2008 national energy costs. But because they cost much more than storage water heaters, it can take up to 22 years to break even—longer than the 20-year life of many models.
So, in summary:

Up-front costs higher
Tankless requires more maintenance...approx $300 per year
Tankless are not "instantaneous"...still get temperature fluxuation.
Takes ~ 20 years to recoup up-front costs

[nzwasp]

Well if tankless comes standard then we arent needing to recoup that cost. Although I quite like our current setup of HE gas tank. Its almost like instant on.

[C_Dave45]

Originally posted by nzwasp
Well if tankless comes standard then we arent needing to recoup that cost. Although I quite like our current setup of HE gas tank. Its almost like instant on.

Do you really think the contractor is "throwing in" a ~$3,500 system over a $1,000 system? You're paying for that "standard". If you went with a traditional hot water tank, then any reputable contractor should give you a credit for the difference or put it towards other upgrades.
It's so easy for a contractor to say "Oh that's included" when he can hide it among a $300,000-$400,000 tab.

Don't kid yourself...you're paying for that "up-front" cost.

[GQBalla]

good info!

so all in all

electric tankless water heaters > gas tankless water heaters

even though electricity cost more.

[nzwasp]

Ok i'll ask them about putting in a normal gas hotwater tank. I quite like our current setup anyway. I heard tankless isnt that great if you have more than a certain amount of people in the house.

[C_Dave45]

Originally posted by GQBalla
good info!

so all in all

electric tankless water heaters > gas tankless water heaters

even though electricity cost more.
Don't know where you got that conclusion, but whatever... :dunno:




Originally posted by nzwasp
Ok i'll ask them about putting in a normal gas hotwater tank. I quite like our current setup anyway. I heard tankless isnt that great if you have more than a certain amount of people in the house.

And don't forget about yearly maintenance costs. With our water the way it is, the scaly deposits are very hard on the tankless systems.

My plumber doesn't even put one in is OWN house. It's either a 12-year warranty, 50 gallon, or for a larger household, two 40-gallon tanks. You'll never run out of hot water.

For only an $8 savings per month....I'd never go to tankless.

[GQBalla]

Originally posted by C_Dave45

Don't know where you got that conclusion, but whatever... :dunno:





And don't forget about yearly maintenance costs. With our water the way it is, the scaly deposits are very hard on the tankless systems.

My plumber doesn't even put one in is OWN house. It's either a 12-year warranty, 50 gallon, or for a larger household, two 40-gallon tanks. You'll never run out of hot water.

For only an $8 savings per month....I'd never go to tankless.

haha oh... i just thought that as you said gas cost more to maintain. Shouldn't have jumped on that conclusion but hey im sick today, break please? :D

so a normal 50 gallon water tank will suffice eh? that is good to know

[C_Dave45]

Originally posted by GQBalla


haha oh... i just thought that as you said gas cost more to maintain. Shouldn't have jumped on that conclusion but hey im sick today, break please? :D

so a normal 50 gallon water tank will suffice eh? that is good to know
No, I didn't say "gas" cost more to maintain.
You're confusing what is being compared. You said:

electric tankless water heaters > gas tankless water heaters

I was comparing TANKLESS vs TRADITIONAL (storage). Both can be either electric or gas. No mention about the pros and cons of the heating method. (gas/electric)

[lauphman]

All tankless heaters also recommend a softener and some require it for warranty

[GQBalla]

so why all the hype on tankless?

The cost savings they advertise is so miniscule
only thing cool is the instant hot water..

i think it's time i get a new hot water tank, our hot water runs out after a 10 minutes shower

[seer_claw]

I got a tankless as I'm not around a lot. Doesn't make much sense to have water being heated when I'm not around. Otherwise, if I was around town more I would have gone with a tank.

[CapnCrunch]

Originally posted by GQBalla
so why all the hype on tankless?



i think it's time i get a new hot water tank, our hot water runs out after a 10 minutes shower

You answered your own question. Tankless "in theory" never runs out of hot water.

[spike98]

Originally posted by seer_claw
I got a tankless as I'm not around a lot. Doesn't make much sense to have water being heated when I'm not around. Otherwise, if I was around town more I would have gone with a tank.

It might be a good idea to check the stand pipe or whatever it is called in your tank. If its cracked or broken off you will run out of water fast. Usually that is the problem. Its a 5 min job and a $10 part from a hardware store

[lauphman]

Oops beat me to it

If your hot water runs out in 10 minutes then your dip tube is probably toast new one is 9.99 from home depot much cheaper then going with a new tank.

And I only recommend tankless heaters for home owners that are barely home, like mentioned above why heat water if your on the road working

[C_Dave45]

Originally posted by GQBalla
so why all the hype on tankless?

The cost savings they advertise is so miniscule
only thing cool is the instant hot water..

i think it's time i get a new hot water tank, our hot water runs out after a 10 minutes shower
Did you try replacing your dip tube? $12 part and 20 minutes of time. About "2" on the "DIY" scale.
Dip tubes will disintegrate to nothing and the incoming cold will then immediately mix with your hot, giving you about 10 minutes worth of hot water.

Edit. Oops. Haha, both beat me to it.

As for people who are rarely home/ on the road alot. Turn your tank off. :dunno: When you come home, turn it back on. Tank will heat up in 1/2 hour or so.
To spend an extra few thousand dollars for only an $8/month savings doesnt make much sense to me.

[GQBalla]

hrm... i just googled it,

I always thought it was because the tank is over ten years old maybe 16?

i could always try the dip tube 12 bucks vs a new water tank ahah

Thanks everyone!

[CapnCrunch]

Since we seem to have some good interest in here, what are good brands for a gas water heater?

Mine works okay for now, but it's 16 years old and there is rust on the outside near the bottom. I can't see it lasting much longer. I'd like something with a pretty quick recovery time as were planning on throwing in a giant tub in the future.

[lauphman]

Personally I install Bradford white heaters, I've had no issues with them.
Only brand I hate is John wood because that's the only brand I've ever been called to service and they were all newer tanks.

[funkytuqe]

Anyone know what the opperating cost delta is between an Electric Tank heater and a Gas tank heater? My new home is being built with a 75gal electric tank, but considring changing to gas tank...

[nzwasp]

http://michaelbluejay.com/electricity/howmuch.html

you might be able to figure it out on here (its at the bottom of the list)

But I would think that with the price of gas that gas will always be cheaper.