Fort McMurray - how much $ makes it worthwhile?

[mslbebiz]

Hey guys,

Looking to get some more opinions and feedback on a job offer for Fort McMurray. Yeah, I know, another Ft Mac thread haha. Anyhow...

Just how much more expensive is it up there? I mean, besides housing (where I'd probably just share an apartment with someone), is everything else really THAT much more expensive? I don't go out a lot or really spend money on much now, so I can't see this changing up there besides going to the climbing gym, weight training and buying groceries and stuff.

I got a job offer to run a new office for a big company up there, and it would be a massive career and money-making opportunity for me --- but how much does a person need to really make for it to be worth it? They're basically asking me to give them a number, as I've told them I would expect the usual cost of living allowance and a significant wage increase.

From the research I've done, it seems wages are roughly 25-40% higher up there for trades people. Does that seem about right? And even then, including a cost of living allowance, is that enough to make up the difference?

Any feedback would be great!

[ExtraSlow]

Well, some people wouldn't go for any amount of money, and some people really like the town. So that's a pretty personal decision.

In a five minute search, it looks like two bedroom apartments go for $2000 per month at the low end. Around $1500 per person if you are sharing a house with two others.

Fuel will be 35 cents more than Calgary. Plus the cost of the cocaine habit you'll pick up.

I'd say you'd need two grand a month to break even. Then add whatever your "working north" premium would be. For me, that's another several grand a month.

[HomespunLobster]

If you aren't breaking $2000/week don't go

[HiTempguy1]

What trade/education?

For me personally, it isn't worth it, so I didn't go. I have waaaaay too much on the go in life to just drop everything for 5 years and live up there in nowhere's-ville.

That's the biggest thing; are you willing to sacrifice your standard of living to earn the money? I am not willing to not be able to do the things I love (hang out with friends on a weekday, go racing whenever I feel like) just so I can have lots of money and nothing to spend it on. It's the same reason why I drive a free 1993 Z71 pickup instead of a $60k dmax.

[chkolny541]

Originally posted by HomespunLobster
If you aren't breaking $2000/week don't go

word, 100K min

And i assume that this is a permanent position (ie no flying back and forth allowed) sort of deal. No one i know ever wanted to go back, even after just a few months :dunno: .

They basically offer new grads 90+K there just out of school (had an accounting friend offered 92K last 2 weeks ago). So assuming you have experience in what you do, you shouldnt settle for anything less than 100-110K. :hitit:

[kaput]

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[mslbebiz]

Thanks for the info guys!

HiTempguy1, the job is in the inspection industry.

I'm fairly certain I can get into the $90-$100k range as a starting rate (@ 40 hrs/week before any field O/T), but definitely nothing like $250k. The position is an office/field job and the company is just expanding into the region. So they are starting small but should see a lot of growth as they already have clients in place and a solid reputation.

It seems $90-$100k wouldn't be a bad place to start for working in the region then.

[brucebanner]

Originally posted by mslbebiz
It seems $90-$100k wouldn't be a bad place to start for working in the region then.

Personally I would shoot higher then that if you're going to live up there. Think about it, you're relocating for them and they seem to want you.

I wouldn't even consider it for anything less then 100K. I don't know what you make now but you have to consider everything.

It's starting to boom again, it's getting real busy up here.

I'm in trades, work a week in week out rotation(they fly us back and forth within Alberta) and I made what you think would be reasonable to relocate for, as an apprentice. Also, the agreement we have in place is crap, so I should have made another 10-20k. Compared to other sites anyways.

In my opinion, you should be asking for at least 100k to start and adding your living allowance, bonuses on top of that as it seems like you have experience in your field.

[turbotrip]

i wouldnt think its worth it for less than $150k

[dirtsniffer]

Originally posted by turbotrip
i wouldnt think its worth it for less than $150k

[ercchry]

Start at $160k, settle at $120k with some sort of stock option perk.

[s dime]

Originally posted by bruceod


Personally I would shoot higher then that if you're going to live up there. Think about it, you're relocating for them and they seem to want you.

I wouldn't even consider it for anything less then 100K. I don't know what you make now but you have to consider everything.

It's starting to boom again, it's getting real busy up here.



What trade? Which site are you at?

[mslbebiz]

s dime, it's in the inspection industry. I wouldn't be at any particular site, I would be working out of an office in Fort McMurray and performing service calls, shutdowns, etc as needed for several different clients in the region.

Considering the company is putting their faith in me as well and offering me a big opportunity with a low of growth potential, I don't quite have the posture to go in guns blazing. But I have proposed a package that starts around $100k per year for 40 hours/week not including any O/T (and almost any site day would be an O/T day), decent vacation time and a future wage progression scheme to make sure I keep pace with the market conditions.

After hearing from you guys and doing some research into the huge wage differences up there (25-40% for trades/technicians), I feel comfortable with this.

Thanks to everyone who responded!

[lasimmon]

Remember to scale back any Income stated on beyond.

[spike98]

Originally posted by mslbebiz
s dime, it's in the inspection industry. I wouldn't be at any particular site, I would be working out of an office in Fort McMurray and performing service calls, shutdowns, etc as needed for several different clients in the region.

Considering the company is putting their faith in me as well and offering me a big opportunity with a low of growth potential, I don't quite have the posture to go in guns blazing. But I have proposed a package that starts around $100k per year for 40 hours/week not including any O/T (and almost any site day would be an O/T day), decent vacation time and a future wage progression scheme to make sure I keep pace with the market conditions.

After hearing from you guys and doing some research into the huge wage differences up there (25-40% for trades/technicians), I feel comfortable with this.

Thanks to everyone who responded!

What kind of inspections?

Im in inspections working a plant job in medicine hat and i am making that here. With not even a half the cost of living. Aim higher my friend. $150k or nothing because i know of a few gents from the big players have tried to scoop me up for around that mark...

[brucebanner]

Originally posted by s dime


What trade? Which site are you at?

Cnrl Horizon, and I'm soon to be a journeyman pipefitter.

Edit: By busy I can only state for welders & fitters. All of the sites up here are looking for people. The company I work for included.


Originally posted by lasimmon
Remember to scale back any Income stated on beyond.

Not everyone feels the need to inflate everything to front to a bunch of people on the internet. Feel free to come up to Red Deer next week while I'm on days off and I will show you last years t4 if you think otherwise.

[..*JDM Hatch*..]

Not only is the expense increase a huge thing up there. Try living there or staying there for a while before you make a final decision. But as others said. Minimum 100K annualy would be alright. Living there sucks ass tho.

:dunno: might just be me.

[cosmok]

If you like fat chicks you'll be in heaven. The only real thing that costs you more is your mortgage or rent. Try to negotiate some sort of yearly bonus based on profit sharing or stock options

[V6-BoI]

I've been working in and out of Fort Mac for the past month or so in Fort Mac. I dunno, I personally wouldn't like living up there for the long term. It's a small city but it's so damn busy it's annoying. And highway 63 is such a bitch to drive on especially during the winter time.

[M.alex]

Originally posted by bruceod




Not everyone feels the need to inflate everything to front to a bunch of people on the internet. Feel free to come up to Red Deer next week while I'm on days off and I will show you last years t4 if you think otherwise.

Scan a copy of them and post them in this thread rather than making a claim nobody will take you up on.....

[Redlined_8000]

Find a fly in/out job at CNRL or MEG.

[HuMz]

For me im looking at going back and getting my EET, im a j-man electrician right now. Unfortionately my second year is full time so the only way i'll be able to afford it is to work up north for a while.

My base wage would be around 130k with flights every 2 weeks, and even that doesn't seem worth it.

[brucebanner]

Originally posted by M.alex


Scan a copy of them and post them in this thread rather than making a claim nobody will take you up on.....

If I remember to do it next week when I get back, I will. I stated generally that I made in that range so it's not really a big secret. As far as making a claim no one will take me up on, I just find it amusing that everyone always thinks everyone bullshits about how it is. Granted, lots do but lots don't. Guess I just think it's irritating sometimes.

So yes M.alex, I'll "prove" that the money up north is legit.:rolleyes:

[CapnCrunch]

Originally posted by bruceod




Not everyone feels the need to inflate everything to front to a bunch of people on the internet. Feel free to come up to Red Deer next week while I'm on days off and I will show you last years t4 if you think otherwise.

Lol what is wrong with this place? The guys working in oil and gas, running an office, AND moving to Fort Mac, and people think he's lying about expecting 100K? :facepalm:



He can't even afford to buy a house there on that salary.

:rofl:

[JRSC00LUDE]

Originally posted by bruceod
So yes M.alex, I'll "prove" that the money up north is legit.:rolleyes:

Why bother? He still hasn't proven his towel rack is over 48" a.f.f.

[kaput]

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[nonofyobiz]

100k is not even close to enough.

think about it, they probably pay their grocery checkout clerks, gas attendants, fast food workers, everyone really $20+/hr. Everything will cost more as it is much more expensive to run a business.

maybe you find out your living expenses (rent, or mortgage) and make that say 30% of your income....figure it out from there.

I would personally laugh at 100K/yr to work in fort crack.

say u need 2500/month for accomadations and you don't want that to be more than 30% of your net income. You would need to net approx. $2080/wk. if your deductions were around 35% (to be safe) you would need to make $3205/wk gross or 167K per year. So if OT is garaunteed you can factor that into it.

On the lower end say you wanted to rent some space for $1500/month and you were ok with that being 40% of your income....then with like 32% tax rate you would need about $1340/wk or 70k per year gross. but that would f'n suck.

[brucebanner]

Originally posted by JRSC00LUDE


Why bother? He still hasn't proven his towel rack is over 48" a.f.f.

Haha I forgot about that all together.

I just find it amusing that people don't think that better money doesn't exist in the northern part of Alberta(or that everyone bullshits about it). I could work 5 minutes from my house in a mod yard but I would instantly take a $10/hr pay cut and be starting fresh again in another company). Yeah, I'd be home every night etc etc. However, I think the abundance of time off and increase in wage make up for being home every night. For the time being and foreseeable future anyway.

[mslbebiz]

Thanks for all the input guys! Definitely getting more responses about this than I originally expected. I just hope I didn't sell myself short now, after getting even more feedback.

To put it into perspective, it's basically a starting wage of $48/hr including cost of living allowance and works out to $100k/year at 40 hours a week. And there should be enough O/T days whenever at site to bump that up by at least $20k or so. Not a bad place to start I don't think, as I made stipulations to ensure a top rate of the usual $55/hr or so, plus cost of living allowance which would end up around $62/hr -- or about $130k for 40 hours a week before O/T.

Sure, I could make $100k/year in Edmonton or Calgary but it would require a lot of O/T. That kind of income puts you into the top 1% of Canadians and isn't something to take lightly.

[spike98]

Originally posted by mslbebiz
Thanks for all the input guys! Definitely getting more responses about this than I originally expected. I just hope I didn't sell myself short now, after getting even more feedback.

To put it into perspective, it's basically a starting wage of $48/hr including cost of living allowance and works out to $100k/year at 40 hours a week. And there should be enough O/T days whenever at site to bump that up by at least $20k or so. Not a bad place to start I don't think, as I made stipulations to ensure a top rate of the usual $55/hr or so, plus cost of living allowance which would end up around $62/hr -- or about $130k for 40 hours a week before O/T.

Sure, I could make $100k/year in Edmonton or Calgary but it would require a lot of O/T. That kind of income puts you into the top 1% of Canadians and isn't something to take lightly.


Im not sure if you read my post or what not but im in inspections, working 40 hours a week, in medicine fucking hat and i just tip toed over 100k. Honestly man, unless you are new in the game and have at best a lvl 2 NDT ticket, your selling yourself short.

[mslbebiz]

Spike, that's really good for Medicine Hat! How long have you been in the game, and with what tickets?

So I was in Ft Mac this weekend for the day to check it out, and I really don't get what all the fuss is about. Except for busy traffic, a lot of dirty, smelly looking guys (as my wife put it lol) and the cost of housing (freaking retarded to say the least), we didn't mind it at all. Downtown was definitely dumpy in parts though, too. But overall, the countryside and surroundings were a huge improvement compared to Edmonton and reminded us of being in the mountains.

The newer neighborhoods and parts of town were pretty nice, too, and seemed very similar to any new neighborhood in Calgary or Edmonton. If the money was right to afford housing we think it would definitely be doable if we lived in one of the newer parts of town.

Maybe we had the blinders on? But we both went expecting to hate it based on what we'd heard, and it definitely wasn't the case so I dunno :dunno: . Maybe we just dislike Edmonton that much lol.

[spike98]

Originally posted by mslbebiz
Spike, that's really good for Medicine Hat! How long have you been in the game, and with what tickets?

So I was in Ft Mac this weekend for the day to check it out, and I really don't get what all the fuss is about. Except for busy traffic, a lot of dirty, smelly looking guys (as my wife put it lol) and the cost of housing (freaking retarded to say the least), we didn't mind it at all. Downtown was definitely dumpy in parts though, too. But overall, the countryside and surroundings were a huge improvement compared to Edmonton and reminded us of being in the mountains.

The newer neighborhoods and parts of town were pretty nice, too, and seemed very similar to any new neighborhood in Calgary or Edmonton. If the money was right to afford housing we think it would definitely be doable if we lived in one of the newer parts of town.

Maybe we had the blinders on? But we both went expecting to hate it based on what we'd heard, and it definitely wasn't the case so I dunno :dunno: . Maybe we just dislike Edmonton that much lol.

I have been in inspections for almost 10 years. I am CGSB MT2, PT2, UT1 certified. I have my API 510 and ABSA IPV. Currently i am getting my NACE Corrosion 1 and working on my CWB 1 as well.

There has been a few guys from big players up there try and scoop me up. The offers have been around the $140k-$150k mark with fly-in/outs. Its good money and tempting but i just can't beat what i get now and being home every night. Working a 8-4:30 job is nice, busting out 12x12's before a day off would probably kill me.

[Q-TIP]

I gotta say, if you're working 40 hour weeks year round I have to agree with people that you should be looking for a bit more cash up there. I don't know what tradespeople make but I know that a lot of the drilling/completions trades are making at least that much up there with a lot lower qualifications.

I'd shoot for 120 before overtime. But if you can't find something else like that, 100k is still a pretty good amount of income. It amazes me how many people on Beyond seem to make over that number. I do, I know it's possible, but it just seems suspicious that all the ballers in Alberta end up on this site.

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by mslbebiz
*snip*

There is nothing wrong with Ft Mac physically besides the smell of bitumen constantly.

If you are the kind of person who doesn't really have a life (and by that, I mean do anything outside of the city or make plans a year in advance for stuff), then Ft Mac wouldn't seem like a bad place. :dunno:

If I had nothing better to do, I'd go up and work there. But I have other things besides work going on in my life to occupy my time.

[Darkane]

Yeah there's not much wrong with the town itself. It has all the amenities, there just isn't a lot of Choice.

Whatever, money up here is retarded. People will say it's less to convince themselves, or jealousy perhaps.

When I move back to Calgary I'll be in the 50-60% of what I make up here. I've been in McMurray for 5 years, and with 12 months or so to go I've payed my dues and The fort has treated me awesome.

Never regretted it for one second.

[CompletelyNumb]

Originally posted by M.alex


Scan a copy of them and post them in this thread rather than making a claim nobody will take you up on.....


It's 100k. Are you serious? A monkey can make 100k in Alberta.

[msommers]

^^With a lot of hours, yes. What is amazing is how nonchalantly people talk about making $100,000. That is a LOT of money people!

[Cos]

.

[msommers]

You're disagreeing that 100K isn't a lot of money?! I know what you were getting at and yes if you want to work fieldwork (like I do) or crazy hours you can make great cash. It just amazes me how $100,000 isn't a big deal to Albertans in O&G but the rest of the province's jobs and the rest of Canada that is a LOT of money! How much do nurses, teachers, barbers, social workers etc make after 10 years? Some people dream of making money like that and are in no way stupid but rather in an industry that society needs but somehow doesn't seem to need to pay well for. Sorry it just bugs me when I hear people (not here just in general) complain about only making a measly 100K/yr. Now I'm way OT :rofl:

[mslbebiz]

Just to clarify, it was Spike with the 10 years experience not myself. I'm currently nowhere near $100k a year in Edmonton based on 40 hrs/wk, and it takes a lot of O/T to get there at my current wage. I have about 2.5 years experience in the industry. So asking for $100k or approx $48/hr to start still feels like a lot to me. As long as the base rate increased to the $150k range within a year's time so I could afford the same quality of life up there I think I could make it work (IE own a similar home to what I have now).

[Cos]

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[msommers]

I see what you mean, Cos. Fuck 250K? Damn. Maybe if I worked almost everyday of the year...fuck that shit :rofl:

[leftwing]

Sorry for a derail of this thread, but I don't want to start another one, and everyone in here seems to know what they are talking about.

I am not too familiar with the O&G industry, but is starting out working on a rig at the entry level (roughneck) and doing that for a 5 or so years a legitimate/common/reasonable way to make your way into the office. By 'office' I mean into a job that requires less travel/more stable. I am thinking about applying to some rigs next fall/winter and wouldn't mind doing that for a while (while i'm young and have no obligations), in the hopes I can eventually have a career in the same line of business that doesn't require as much radical shift work and travelling. Or does a roughneck just get you up to higher positions on the rig and thats about it.

[thinmyster]

Originally posted by leftwing
Or does a roughneck just get you up to higher positions on the rig and thats about it.

I think this.

Most of the skills you learn on the rig are not transferrable to any office work. Maybe tool push which is basically office work but at the rig.

[leftwing]

Originally posted by thinmyster


I think this.

Most of the skills you learn on the rig are not transferrable to any office work. Maybe tool push which is basically office work but at the rig.
I should also mention I have a bachelor degree in finance.

The reason I am thinking of this route is because of the great earning potential available at the entry level

[msommers]

You could work your way up the ladder at the rig to tool push, directional or company man and move into the office for drilling operations or well planner. Most guys stay out there because the amount of money you make is addicting.

[thinmyster]

That will definitely help but if you aren't practising I think 5-10 years down the road it will become a less valuable asset.

[mslbebiz]

Get into MWD. It's not hard to get on as an MWD hand regardless of everyone that seems to think it is (I've tried and had multiple offers with zero rig experience but decided against it). You'll make way more money, do way less work, be much warmer in the shack 99% of the time and can easily move into a MWD coordinator office position in a couple years in Calgary or Edmonton.

[leftwing]

Originally posted by msommers
You could work your way up the ladder at the rig to tool push, directional or company man and move into the office for drilling operations or well planner. Most guys stay out there because the amount of money you make is addicting.

That is exactly why I want to try the industry. Right out of high school I got a construction job making 17/hr+OT and I thought that was a lot of money. Im certainly driven by money and i could see myself getting 'addicted' to it, and willing to work hard for it. But i cant see myself being ok with being away from my family and stuff my whole life.

[msommers]

Originally posted by mslbebiz
Get into MWD. It's not hard to get on as an MWD hand regardless of everyone that seems to think it is (I've tried and had multiple offers with zero rig experience but decided against it). You'll make way more money, do way less work, be much warmer in the shack 99% of the time and can easily move into a MWD coordinator office position in a couple years in Calgary or Edmonton.

I like this idea more. Despite what the yahoos at Halliburton in the field told me, I think you should try this route. More money right off the bat and way better working conditions.

[vengie]

X3 on the mwd.
I will be finishing up my PET at SAIT, and from
There I will try to find an MWD position for a couple years before making the transition to the office.

[Redlined_8000]

Whats MWD stand for? Measurements While Drilling???


^^ GJ on the PET btw!!!

[CompletelyNumb]

money while dreaming.

easy work. would never tell anyone not to do it.

[thinmyster]

M.W.D. Masturbating while drilling
M.W.D. Movie watching dude

[cosmok]

Originally posted by mslbebiz
Get into MWD. It's not hard to get on as an MWD hand regardless of everyone that seems to think it is (I've tried and had multiple offers with zero rig experience but decided against it). You'll make way more money, do way less work, be much warmer in the shack 99% of the time and can easily move into a MWD coordinator office position in a couple years in Calgary or Edmonton.
With the way industry in Alberta is projected to be for the next few years this would be very easy to accomplish.

If you wanted to go the finance route there is a niche for people that understand the fundamentals of rig operations and are good at computers / cost management. A few of the majors are going the route of an experienced consultant and a "Wellsite Assistant," a guy that basically does the paperwork. After you spend enough time in that role the transition to Supervising wouldn't be that difficult if you were so inclined. With no rig experience, it took me three years to become a Wellsite Supervisor after I graduated.

[Cos]

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[Xtrema]

1 in 10 people make over $100K in Alberta. That's 360,000 people.

I'm sure majority of that are in Calgary. So that's why we all have a perception of $100K is nothing. Anywhere else in the country, it's a big deal.

And we got to remember, we have shit load of self employed contractors that are paying themselves in dividends or minimum wage. So it entirely possible the number of people making over $100K is twice as many as census reported figures.

[msommers]

My accountant was mentioning of new tax rules for incorporated consultants paying themselves via dividends. Some will be perfectly fine and carry on as per usual. Others might be in a world of hurt depending if they qualify as a Personal Service Business (PSB) which is easy to avoid by paying yourself salary but then less benefits, like saying FU to CPP which I'd love to opt out of anyways somehow.

[CompletelyNumb]

90% of "consultants" in alberta fall under PSB rules. All in for a world of hurt if they get audited.

[swest1970]

Originally posted by Xtrema
1 in 10 people make over $100K in Alberta. That's 360,000 people.

I'm sure majority of that are in Calgary.

Also the perception of big coin depends on your social circles...

I work in O&G EPCM, and practically everyone in our office who has been out of school for more than 3-4 years is making 100k.

If I worked at Sobeys as the Bakery Manager, I'm sure the perspective would be different...and 100K would be huge cash.

One of my pet peeves with Fort Mac is trying to go out for dinner to a "nice" restaurant. Even the Keg has a 2 hour minimum wait on any weeknight any time after 4. :rolleyes: