realiable cars :P

[r3ccOs]

I've been plagued with bad luck it seems... or just timing

well one I know was the result of engine overheating and damages then inccurred when offroading and losing my water pump as my accessory belt broke thanks to a crappy idler pully
as such, it simply starts to burn oil and coolant and is a candidate for a head job, but also the life of my timing chain was signifcantly reduced and it broke as expected (started making sounds for about 20k there after)
So as its an interference engine, its done... and it wasn't worth overhauling as I can find these engines pretty cheap

the other... my SE-R's vq35de, is apparently misfiring and according to a mechanic, it is a bank 1 intake cam sprocket issue...
It doesn't seem common, I don't bag the car, and because the misfiring is intermittent (not present when cold, and goes away even when warm if I rev the engine)
the CPS is reading fine (phaser) so it is advancing/retarding that intake cam as it should, but the cam sprocket is apparently so worn, it is off by 8 degrees

I dunno... I am going for a second opinion, but if it is a situation also where the exhaust or intake valve are open at the same time well... its a flame thrower and can toast my poor cat's on the exhaust manifold
so, his suggestion is not to do a timing chain/cam sprocket job, but to replace the VQ... :P

at this point, I'm just stumped, and perhaps a new car or a lease is a good idea, to have and keep the car until its bumper or powertrain warranty expires

but really its cause I drive about 50k each way (100k) a day to work and back, and its in the dead heat of traffic which is just added problems (clutch... and auto trans issues as well)

no way to avoid this unless I buy a new car (I will likely repair both vehicles as well) and if I do buy a new one, I will get some little ecobox like a mazda 2

OR
would it be worthwhile to do something like buy a crown vic? parts are available, and I can repair most on that modular vehilcle itself (I am fixing my 4x4 myself, and doing a swap there as well)

or get something like a late 90's volvo and shoehorn a 302... which I know fits, with a proper driveshaft lenth and if I put in a dana 35 rear end, should be pretty solid and I can likely couple that together for pretty cheap as well

[Kardon]

Mazda 2 vs Crown vic vs v8 swap volvo?
:dunno:

[Disoblige]

lol....

that was really tough to read by the way.

[soccernut]

What the hell does the OP currently drive? a bunch of letters and numbers? My psychic powers are weak.

I hear Honda and Toyota make some reliable cars for the most part.

[ExtraSlow]

That was hard to read. What's your primary motivation here?

Put these in order for your priorities.
- Reliable
- Cheap to purchase
- Cheap to operate
- Fun/fast/unique

If you just want cheap transport, then beaters are the way to go. Buy something for less than $2000 that runs, make zero modifications and drive it till it dies. Donate to Kideny foundation and buy another one.

kijiji has over a hundred cars under $1500 bucks right now.

[J-hop]

Originally posted by ExtraSlow
....make zero modifications and drive it till it dies....

This, you ask about reliable vehicles and then Start talking about swapping a 302 into a late 90s volvo (which won't work btw, I believe all late 90s volvo were fwd or AWD, and the 302 would not be an easy swap at all, you are thinking of late 80s/early 90s 240s,740s,940s)

Why not instead of spending 1000+ on a beater put that same amount of money into maitenance for your SE-R??? I personally would much rather put that kind of money into a car I know than one I don't.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[Graham_A_M]

Originally posted by soccernut

I hear Honda and Toyota make some reliable cars for the most part.

Yeah, I dont think the OP wants some inanely bland transportation appliance. :rolleyes:

[CanmoreOrLess]

Get a Prius or other hybrid, 100 km a day in stop and go is the only vehicle that makes sense. 100 km a day on the highway, buy a VW diesel. Drive both into the ground.

Or buy a mid 90's Jag and have some fun.

[Neil4Speed]

http://calgary.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-cars-trucks-1995-Lexus-LS-Sedan-W0QQAdIdZ356800194

Pretty reliable, nice, good highway cruiser.

[Deetz]

Not sure any of the cars you mentioned will be ultra reliable.

The most reliable cars i have ever onwed were a 1998 Accord 5 speed, put 200K on it and only replaced a timing belt and a few bulbs.

The other, i still own, a 2002 Acura RSX. I bought it 10 years ago, and changed two bulbs in it, "That's it"!! I plan to swap in a relatively stock K24A2 with a couple bolt on's for some nice hp numbers, and it should still continue to be reliable and quick

[K3RMiTdot]

hondurr

[r3ccOs]

lol, my apologies for the long post...

in shorthand, 2 vehicles need new engines (one for sure, the other to get a 2nd opinion)

I guess the option to me is to lease a cheapo eco-box, but it sucks buying a vehicle just for work and really for the sake of work

the other is to build or buy something thinking of some solid chassis that is easy to repair on my own, such as a crown vic... but I'm not sure I'll be happy with that, but the total cost of ownership would be less, concidering I wouldn't be buying anything more than basic insurance and fuel.

[Graham_A_M]

^ Dude, why are you so hung up on a Crown Vic? Fuck sakes....

" Hey babe, need a ride? hop in the back". :nut:
No fun to drive, BIG cars and you look like goof driving one.
Easy cars to work on for sure, and yes they have a lot of parts available considering how many old cab's you'll find at Pick & Pull, but asides from that.... :dunno:
Here, go scour Kijiji and post up cars that interest you, and we can steer you from there.

I'd stay away from anything European. Their nice cars when their new, but with Jag's, Audi's & Merc's after they get older (at least old enough to fit your budget); thats when they typically start to have asinine repair bills, and generally be quite unreliable.

Kind of wish I had my old beater I could sell or give to you. It wasn't the nicest but it had a heart of gold and never broke down once (bought it new). I just got tired of driving it so I sold it when it rolled over 330k.

[AE92_TreunoSC]

VQ sprockets are common, the cam will get stuck in a phase position and trigger a code.

Often if its stuck 8 degrees out its a stretched chain.

Both trigger cam codes.

It takes a really experienced nissan tech to tell the difference.

[M.alex]

If it isn't a V8 and it isn't American built it's wrong and will break. That simple.

[r3ccOs]

Originally posted by AE92_TreunoSC
VQ sprockets are common, the cam will get stuck in a phase position and trigger a code.

Often if its stuck 8 degrees out its a stretched chain.

Both trigger cam codes.

It takes a really experienced nissan tech to tell the difference.

well with either... its the same type of work I would assume? and being that the valves were open off phase, it could cause ring damage I would assume

[revelations]

Originally posted by M.alex
If it isn't a V8 and it isn't American built it's wrong and will break. That simple.

Odd, my rice burning Honda Civic has neither and has not broken :dunno:

[M.alex]

Originally posted by revelations


Odd, my rice burning Honda Civic has neither and has not broken :dunno:

It's broken, you just don't know it :nut:

[HO2S]

Originally posted by r3ccOs


well with either... its the same type of work I would assume? and being that the valves were open off phase, it could cause ring damage I would assume

The engine is designed to have the intake and exhaust valves open at the same time for a few degrees. Its called valve over lap, the in coming fresh air helps push out the old exhaust.

Sticking cam phasers do not warrant replacing a engine. Definatly get a second opinion. Find a tech that has a two channel scope and knows how to read wave forms.

[Graham_A_M]

Originally posted by HO2S
Find a tech that has a two channel scope and knows how to read wave forms.
You know your shit... very impressed. :thumbsup:

[HO2S]

Originally posted by Graham_A_M

You know your shit... very impressed. :thumbsup:

Thank you! Im flattered.

[r3ccOs]

Originally posted by HO2S


The engine is designed to have the intake and exhaust valves open at the same time for a few degrees. Its called valve over lap, the in coming fresh air helps push out the old exhaust.

Sticking cam phasers do not warrant replacing a engine. Definatly get a second opinion. Find a tech that has a two channel scope and knows how to read wave forms.

yea... well the cam phasers are reading right and the oil passages are fine... the cam on b1 at idle was off by upwards of 35 deg

apparently it is very common with the vq's to have worn cam sprockets, and as such... I was quoted more to replace the cam sprockets, timing chain, replaces valves and essentially do a head job, also warranting that I don't have ring issues, where that cannot be determined until they pull the heads out, and as such if required would need to have the cylinders resleaved

plus we need to see whether the CAT on the first stage (exhaust manifold) are still in good shape or whether they've burnt out

I guess they can always pull the cat's out of the intake manifold and just put a bung resistor for the 02 sensor

I'm also going to source a new vq

[J-hop]

Originally posted by HO2S


The engine is designed to have the intake and exhaust valves open at the same time for a few degrees. Its called valve over lap, the in coming fresh air helps push out the old exhaust.

Sticking cam phasers do not warrant replacing a engine. Definatly get a second opinion. Find a tech that has a two channel scope and knows how to read wave forms.

Just to clarify, intake/exhaust valve overlap is to use exhaust gas velocity to bring in intake charge (not the other way around) which increases the volumetric efficiency of an NA engine.

If you had the intake open on a compression stroke you may have issues which is what I think the OP may be getting at?

OP are you referring to the catalytic converter? That won't be on the intake manifold side, and you won't have an O2 on the intake side either. If you have a temp gun you can test the cat yourself by measuring inlet and outlet temps, i forgot what difference between the two would indicate a dead cat but google can provide that.

[HO2S]

Originally posted by r3ccOs


yea... well the cam phasers are reading right and the oil passages are fine... the cam on b1 at idle was off by upwards of 35 deg

apparently it is very common with the vq's to have worn cam sprockets, and as such... I was quoted more to replace the cam sprockets, timing chain, replaces valves and essentially do a head job, also warranting that I don't have ring issues, where that cannot be determined until they pull the heads out, and as such if required would need to have the cylinders resleaved

plus we need to see whether the CAT on the first stage (exhaust manifold) are still in good shape or whether they've burnt out

I guess they can always pull the cat's out of the intake manifold and just put a bung resistor for the 02 sensor

I'm also going to source a new vq

You really need to find a new shop.
There is no way you can check the oil passages with out pulling the cams. The cam phaser is sticking, no big deal all that it needs is cam phasers and a timing chain kit. Why would it need valves? why would the piston rings be worn? Why does it need a cat? You can go into mode 6 and test the cat to see how much life is left on on it. You can do leak down/compression tests to see the integrity of the cylinders. Ive have yet to see sticking cam phasers cause anything more than runabilitly problems. Never seen one kill a engine. I had a F-150 a month ago were both phasers where stuck a +54 degrees and no engine damage at all.
It sounds like you have been feed many lines of bs.

Edit.
After re-reading your post, are you throwing a p0420 (catalyst efficiency code)? or it the shop going off the fact the engine is missing so its going to need cats? You dont just guess a car needs $1500 of cats, there are many ways of testing them. The shop will not cut out the cats, that is illegal. You have to keep in mind that this is not 1996, a o2 resistor or emulator is going to screw so much stuff up.

[Neil4Speed]

Originally posted by M.alex
If it isn't a V8 and it isn't American built it's wrong and will break. That simple.

Ever heard of a 1UZ?

[r3ccOs]

Originally posted by HO2S


You really need to find a new shop.
There is no way you can check the oil passages with out pulling the cams. The cam phaser is sticking, no big deal all that it needs is cam phasers and a timing chain kit. Why would it need valves? why would the piston rings be worn? Why does it need a cat? You can go into mode 6 and test the cat to see how much life is left on on it. You can do leak down/compression tests to see the integrity of the cylinders. Ive have yet to see sticking cam phasers cause anything more than runabilitly problems. Never seen one kill a engine. I had a F-150 a month ago were both phasers where stuck a +54 degrees and no engine damage at all.
It sounds like you have been feed many lines of bs.

you really may be right...

and I don't want to sound silly, but I was quoted $3100 for the job @ nissan (fish creek) + potential for a head job and a new exhaust manifold w/ cat's on b1

would phasers not potentially advance the intake valve timing the the point where it could possibly hit something with an interference engine?

the ring/heat thing was what I was told... was that the unburn gas being throwin into a hot exahust manifold would spike the temp's in the cat beyond its tolderance (like a flame thrower) and that it could then affect the rings with any kind of blow back of debris

[HO2S]

Originally posted by r3ccOs


you really may be right...

and I don't want to sound silly, but I was quoted $3100 for the job @ nissan (fish creek) + potential for a head job and a new exhaust manifold w/ cat's on b1

would phasers not potentially advance the intake valve timing the the point where it could possibly hit something with an interference engine?

the ring/heat thing was what I was told... was that the unburn gas being throwin into a hot exahust manifold would spike the temp's in the cat beyond its tolderance (like a flame thrower) and that it could then affect the rings with any kind of blow back of debris

You just answered my edit in my previous post.
Im not going to bash any shop, but you should go to brasso its worth spend a bit more money on diagnostic time and get it diagnosed correctly.

[r3ccOs]

Originally posted by HO2S


You just answered my edit in my previous post.
Im not going to bash any shop, but you should go to brasso its worth spend a bit more money on diagnostic time and get it diagnosed correctly.

you are very possibly correct, now I'm being told that the oil levels were low, which caused the oil driven cps to sense phase wrong and caused premature wear on the phasers, and also means that the rings are likely worn...

that being said, it should be easy to test for compression, but because the phase is wrong, can you still do a downward compression test for the 7% loss, if you can't really get the valves closed @ TDC?

as for the Cats? I definately hope I don't need to replace them :( but no codes did indcate any kind of cat failure, it was just "their" guess

the quote for the timing chain kit, cam sprocket & labour was at min $3100

I got a quote for a 50k vq for $4200... which is why I am thinking of going that route :(

[HO2S]

Originally posted by r3ccOs


you are very possibly correct, now I'm being told that the oil levels were low, which caused the oil driven cps to sense phase wrong and caused premature wear on the phasers, and also means that the rings are likely worn...

that being said, it should be easy to test for compression, but because the phase is wrong, can you still do a downward compression test for the 7% loss, if you can't really get the valves closed @ TDC?

as for the Cats? I definately hope I don't need to replace them :( but no codes did indcate any kind of cat failure, it was just "their" guess

the quote for the timing chain kit, cam sprocket & labour was at min $3100

I got a quote for a 50k vq for $4200... which is why I am thinking of going that route :(

When there is no oil pressure the cam phasers are on their lock pins at 0 degrees. Seeing that its not stuck all the time, Ide say you would get farly accurate compression numbers.
They are saying it may need a engine because when the light off cat breaks up, the pieces can get sucked up the egr tube and back into the engine. A leak down test will show if there is any damage. Thats a huge assumption. They are calling everything to cover their ass because they havent spent the time to properly diagnose it.

If you put a used engine in, this is a common problem and it could happen again. Imo your better off fixing what you already have.

[r3ccOs]

Originally posted by HO2S


When there is no oil pressure the cam phasers are on their lock pins at 0 degrees. Seeing that its not stuck all the time, Ide say you would get farly accurate compression numbers.
They are saying it may need a engine because when the light off cat breaks up, the pieces can get sucked up the egr tube and back into the engine. A leak down test will show if there is any damage. Thats a huge assumption. They are calling everything to cover their ass because they havent spent the time to properly diagnose it.

If you put a used engine in, this is a common problem and it could happen again. Imo your better off fixing what you already have.

do you know what the ball park cost it would be to just the timing chain kit & phasers?

everywhere I've been quoted was like $3100+ and if a new 50k engine w/ 3 month/15k warrant is available for a grand more, I'm leaning towards that option

[HO2S]

Originally posted by r3ccOs


do you know what the ball park cost it would be to just the timing chain kit & phasers?

everywhere I've been quoted was like $3100+ and if a new 50k engine w/ 3 month/15k warrant is available for a grand more, I'm leaning towards that option

OK all throw down some numbers.
labour for timing kit and phasers, 10.8 hours.
remove and replace engine 15.6 hours.
The hourly rate at my shop is $130 an hour,some dealers are up to $150 an hour.
I cant get part prices because im at home, but I think the phasers are a few hundered each, and the timing kit is also a few hundred. These should be genuine nissan parts.

Replacing the engine with a used unit or fixing yours will probably be about the same price. Just keep in mind you dont know the history of the used engine. Phasers like to fail from a lack of maintenance. You could put the used engine in and have the same problem in 10 000km. Used engine warrantys dont cover labour so you will be paying twice.

[r3ccOs]

Originally posted by HO2S


OK all throw down some numbers.
labour for timing kit and phasers, 10.8 hours.
remove and replace engine 15.6 hours.
The hourly rate at my shop is $130 an hour,some dealers are up to $150 an hour.
I cant get part prices because im at home, but I think the phasers are a few hundered each, and the timing kit is also a few hundred. These should be genuine nissan parts.

Replacing the engine with a used unit or fixing yours will probably be about the same price. Just keep in mind you dont know the history of the used engine. Phasers like to fail from a lack of maintenance. You could put the used engine in and have the same problem in 10 000km. Used engine warrantys dont cover labour so you will be paying twice.

So my mechanic is having an issue with the wreckers, who keep shipping VQ's from 05/06 Maxima's and not the SE-R that they said they had...

This is just the engine and not a full drivetrain assembly, so my mechanic thinks that there are slight variances between them, including tune and between the reading of the crank position sensor and the tranny sensors and wants to be sure....

I may just take your advise and may just get him to do a fully compression leak test to see if I have any valve or ring issues, and being that the engine is out of the car, he can do the cam phasers and timing chain...

Also, the wife is at this point wanting a reliable car that's roomy and effecient... based on what I've read I've unfortunately narrowed it down to two vehicles which lack a "driving experience"
and that is the

Prius V and Golf Wagon TDI

IMO... as the Prius's synergy drive and battery have been remarkable since the 1st gen, and the engine is pretty much without any accesorry drive, uses electric water pumps etc... an atkinson cycle engine... I've herad this is perhaps the most reliable design you can find, and the milage for such a big wagon is very impressive... (4.4/4.6)

I like the Golf's and the 2.0 seems to be very well reviewed, though it is worse on gas, I think I'd prefer the manual tranny and the beefy torque it provides. On the other hand, I hate VW's electrical issues, and the TDI doesn't bold any simpler maintenance than any conventional engine and god damnit I hate chaning the water pump and timing belt on em.

[HO2S]

Originally posted by r3ccOs


So my mechanic is having an issue with the wreckers, who
IMO... as the Prius's synergy drive and battery have been remarkable since the 1st gen, and the engine is pretty much without any accesorry drive, uses electric water pumps etc... an atkinson cycle engine... I've herad this is perhaps the most reliable design you can find, and the milage for such a big wagon is very impressive... (4.4/4.6)


Hybrids are the least reliable vechials on the road plain and simple. Your nissan is way cheaper to fix than a hybride. With most manufacturers they do not sell parts for the hybride drive system. If you have a $12 axle seal leak, you get to replace a $12000 drive system. At the end of the day the dealer will loose money on every hybride they sell. They just build them so david suzuki will shut up. And besides building the hybride batteries kills the environment way more than than any gas engine ever will.

[JZS_147]

Originally posted by Neil4Speed


Ever heard of a 1UZ?


Any UZ for that matter!

[corsvette]

Originally posted by HO2S


Hybrids are the least reliable vechials on the road plain and simple. Your nissan is way cheaper to fix than a hybride. With most manufacturers they do not sell parts for the hybride drive system. If you have a $12 axle seal leak, you get to replace a $12000 drive system. At the end of the day the dealer will loose money on every hybride they sell. They just build them so david suzuki will shut up. And besides building the hybride batteries kills the environment way more than than any gas engine ever will.

A replacement battery for a Chevy volt is $87,000!!! A Partsman at GM showed this to me on his computer last week.

[Canmorite]

Originally posted by HO2S


..vechials...hybride...hybride...the dealer will loose money on every hybride...hybride...

:rofl:

[CapnCrunch]

Originally posted by Canmorite


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[HO2S]

opps, I are good at spelling.

[r3ccOs]

Originally posted by HO2S


Hybrids are the least reliable vechials on the road plain and simple. Your nissan is way cheaper to fix than a hybride. With most manufacturers they do not sell parts for the hybride drive system. If you have a $12 axle seal leak, you get to replace a $12000 drive system. At the end of the day the dealer will loose money on every hybride they sell. They just build them so david suzuki will shut up. And besides building the hybride batteries kills the environment way more than than any gas engine ever will.

from talking to taxi driver, who've been shuffling me around downtown in their Prius's, they love it

sounds like they're incredibly reliable, and one guy running an '10 with 360k and has done nothing more than brakes and fluids...

that being said, they just lack the driving characteristics I want, and outside of the V, don't provide the function I need...

ended up going the volvo route

[Kolbatron]

Looks like you didn't need any advice after all......:facepalm:

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

Originally posted by corsvette


A replacement battery for a Chevy volt is $87,000!!! A Partsman at GM showed this to me on his computer last week.

I can verify this.

[r3ccOs]

Originally posted by Kolbatron
Looks like you didn't need any advice after all......:facepalm:

I fixed my se-r and bought a Volvo to provide reliability and function...

What can I say?

:dunno:

[r3ccOs]

Originally posted by Twin_Cam_Turbo


I can verify this.

I gotta wonder how much nissand, mitsu and Chevy are loading with each event sale...

I think the Prius is a different story as its not a plugin or full plugin yet... its not contingent on full battery charge/discharge