Strange Battery Question

[GreyFox]

So I rode to work yesterday, this was probably my 3rd ride of the season so far. Battery was disconnected over the winter, properly charged in spring before taking it out again.

I started it up in the morning as usual, no choke needed and started on the first try...no issues. Rode in the work, about a 5km ride and parked it for the day. Went to leave work, same deal, started no problem at all, no choke or anything needed. Rode to the gas station which is about 0.7km away. Fueled up and went to leave and it wouldn't start.

It's not like it was trying to start and just wouldn't turn over, the battery was DEAD. Got the clicking noise once of twice when I tried and after that it was so dead that there was no clicking noise and no display information even.

After a fellow biker helped me out with an allan key to open my seat cover, I checked the connections and they were fine. Every few minutes I tried it again and sometimes the display info would come back, sometimes it wouldn't, but no matter what this thing wasn't going to be starting.

My dad came to help with his truck just incase we needed to haul it somewhere and we took the battery completely out, put it back in and triple checked all the connections were solid. Still nothing. Tried to push start it and couldn't get it the first 2 times but with the help of another young lad who was fueling up and offered to give a hand we got it going.

Once it was running I had the choke on all the way and it was struggling to stay running. I had to keep my hand on the throttle the whole time otherwise it would die. Managed to get it home and decided to take the long way (16th ave, deerfoot, memorial) to try and get at least 10 minutes or so in with a decent speed to help charge.

Got it home and it seemed to be running like normal again; choke off all the way it was idling just fine. Turned it off for about 5 minutes then tried to start it and it worked like a charm, no issues, no choke needed.

I'm confused.

Do batteries just suddenly die like that? I was at the pump for all of 3 minutes and it was just completely toast. I did some googling and some similar issues have happened but everything just said the battery was toast. Strange thing is though, for the past 4 years and for the 10 minutes before I got to the pump the battery seemed in perfect working order; absolutely no signs of it becoming old and useless.

Is this normal for a battery or does anybody have a clue as to what else this could be?

[mr2mike]

1 of 2 things. Your battery isn't holding a charge or your alternator is on the out.

But it does sound more alternator related. Happened in a vehicle at the in-laws winter getaway place.
Car sits for months (I bought him a trickle charger which, never seems to be on the car whenever I go down there) then they either get it started or need to charge it.

This time, it started fine, drove fine, stopped for 5 minutes and the car wouldn't start at all.
Got a boost from a charging machine, started no problem and drove off.
Car died again going onto freeway.
Got help, got another boost and away we go.
Progressively got shorter and shorter between boosting and dying.
I ended up taking the wheel and driving the car at very high RPM in 2nd and made it to a fix it place (as it's not my vehicle and I'm not wasting my holiday fixing other's ignorance) they changed out the alternator and it was fine.

So long story short, I would bet on the alternator

[Supa Dexta]

First of all there is no alternator on a bike

Secondly I'd be getting a voltage reading on that battery to know where to start.

[turbotrip]

get the battery load tested at canadian tire for free. if the battery is fine then look at your charging system (stator and R/R).
there is a slight chance that since it was such a short ride and if you have something that requires a lot of voltage on your bike then maybe it was just a random occurrance, but not very likely.

[Zigo]

90% its the battery.

If its not, look at the rectifier / stator.

[Graham_A_M]

May be a connectivity issue as well. If you have a loose connection somewhere, the bike may work intermittently and not others, as in if the connection was lost.

I have doubts its the battery as judging by the kind of issues you have; that doesn't seem battery related. Batteries dont go from being fine, to just dying then "come to life again".
So that tells me perhaps the positive battery cable isn't connecting properly at one of the terminals or you have some other problem somewhere along the line.
The fact that the display came on intermittently then went back out again is likely from there being a connection issue. The fact that you tried to start it, and nothing happened likely means what very weak connection there was allowing the ECU/Display to power up was quickly lost when you tried to start it/created a big current draw.

Check the positive cable along the route over to the starter itself and make sure all the connections & terminals are good.

There is that part that when signaled by the start button: it allows the path of electricity directly from the battery to connect to the starter. I forget what its called as its been SO long since I worked on any of that, that my brain is jello right now. :(

[revelations]

How old is the battery?

[GreyFox]

Graham, that's exactly what I was thinking....batteries aren't perfectly fine one second and completely dead the next. I'll check along that wire and see if I find anything. Although I'm a complete idiot when it comes to this stuff so I'm not exactly sure what I'm looking for unless it's super obvious.

Revelations, I have no idea. I bought this bike almost 4 years ago now and it's the same one that I got it with. No clue how long it's been in there prior to that point. I'll see if I have time on the weekend to bring to Crappy Tire for a volt test and report back with the findings.

[Graham_A_M]

Whoah, most batteries last two or so years, so it may be a wise idea to look for a replacement. You'll likely be needing a replacement soon anyway so you may want to try that and see what happens. Blackfoot sells a special gel battery (I forget what it's called) but it has a very long warranty, and is quite a bit better then the typical lead/acid batteries that all bikes come with. It really isn't too much more them a typical Yuasa battery, like $20 more. Just ask the guys at the parts counter, they'd know. Destination cycles up in Airdrie sells them too.

Kind of too bad, I'm out in sask right now otherwise I'd give you a hand to fix the problem.

[Graham_A_M]

Finally found it as a banner on a bike forum I'm on.

here it is.
http://www.ballisticparts.com/products/batteries/batteries.php

^ I'd get one of those if you haven't already. I REALLY should have this spring when I had to replace the battery in my Triumph, but didn't even know about them until after I bought it.

[Zigo]

^ I've only had returns on those batteries, no one seems to like them.. Or maybe I just got a bad bunch?

[Graham_A_M]

^ fuck seriously? what kind of returns?

[Zigo]

I had two that kept overcharging the bike, few that didn't hold a charge.

I had a few that came back with broken (rattling) insides - maybe they dropped them?

if you wana try one out; I'd help ya get a deal on one. I should have some here.


Blackfoot has some kind of special type of lithium batteries that they can only get.

[GreyFox]

So I went to Canadian Tire to have the battery tested. It was obviously dead when I brought it to them so they had to charge it first before testing it. I went close-ish to their closing time so it wasn't possible to charge it fully (would take an hour or so) but it sat on their charger for about 40 minutes. They took the reading and told me I need a new battery. They gave me the reading results but it's all foreign to me. Can anybody tell me what these numbers mean? Is the battery completely gone or is it just in the process of dying? That makes a pretty big difference when trying to troubleshoot what the actual problem is here....

"Battery Test Results:
REPLACE BATTERY
Voltage: 12.83V
Measured: 162 CCA
Rated: YT12B-BS
Temperature: -40C

Battery fails to meet industry accepted standards and should be replaced"

Does the fact that it wasn't fully charged have a great impact on how accurate the reading is? I just don’t want to go and buy a new battery, put it in and then find out that's not even the problem. By the sounds of things I'll likely have to replace the battery soon anyways but I'd prefer to do it later rather than sooner if possible.

Secondly, where's the best place to pick up a new battery? I don't want to wait for something to be shipped in so I just want to go somewhere where they have batteries in stock. Is every place going to have roughly the same prices on the same type of battery? Or should I take a few days and be shopping around?

[Graham_A_M]

At even a half charge, 160ca is low. The test sees how well the battery can handle a big discharge, which yours obviously can't. Yes you should get a new battery, since the last thing you want is to be stuck at work or somewhere in a similar situation. I've had that happen, and its quite a bit to ask your co-workers (or god-forbid random strangers) to give you a push to get you started. If you ever tried that yourself you'll find out the true meaning of "out of shape". Besides, $80-100 really isn't much money. Get stranded somewhere and I think you'll quickly agree. Trust me I've been in your situation many times and it's never worth being cheap over.

Blackfoot and Destination cycles in airdrie are good places for batts, just ask what else they have (or call ahead) as typical lead-acid batteries suck.
That's what I'm running unfortunately as I didn't know Blackfoot carried lithium batts until after I bought and installed it:( and it gets very annoying replacing the batt every couple years. (And yes I take very good care of my batts regardless). Im flat out amazed yours has lasted 4 or more. Thats insane.

Think about it this way, you need a new batt, that's a given. If replacing it fixes the problem then great! Otherwise at least you have a solid platform to start trouble shooting from, and you've saved a LOT of headaches potentially.
Trying to troubleshoot starter/battery issues with a shit battery is about as tactful as trying to start a campfire in the pouring rain.

[RedlineMS]

You need a new battery.

Don't buy anything except Yuasa or lithium and for sure don't buy a Crappy Tire battery. We have sold probably 20 Balistic lithium batteries already this year with no problems. I've been using a lithium battery for two years in my race bike with no problems at all so I think the fear around the lithium is not justified. Your charging system may not be working but I would buy a decent battery first and then test with a voltage meter. You can't check your charging system with a bad battery in the bike BTW. It should be charging around 14.2. Make sure that if you buy a lead acid Yuasa that the shop conditions it first before you take it. Conditioning takes at least 4 hours and should be done overnight. Lithiums do not need conditioning.

A cared for Yuasa battery should last 5 years. Lithium, not sure but they are supposed to last for longer than 2000 complete drain/recharges - so that's a long time.

[GreyFox]

Thanks for everything guys. Went to Walt Healy today and they just sold out of batteries. I really, really wanted to get this thing started before tomorrow as I have a few trips coming up tomorrow and on the weekend that I would love to use the bike for.

As per usual I tried calling Blackfoot 3-4 times before going there but couldn't even talk to anybody on the phone. I've successfully managed to never buy anything from Blackfoot so far as every time I go there I seem to have a terrible, terrible customer service experience.

Got there, the battery was $20 more than it was at Walt but they had it ready to go.

Got home, popped it in and she started up without the slightest hesitation!

So for the time being it seems like the battery was the problem all along. All the insight and help is much appreciated and I'll be sure to head straight back here if I go to leave the gas station and it won't start again!