Quebec Student Protests

[FraserB]

Time to give Quebec what it wants and cut them off from Canada. This is ridiculous, the amount of entitlement that these children are showing is beyond belief.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/05/21/hundreds-arrested-in-quebec-as-protesters-defy-emergency-law/

Oddly enough; the business, engineering, finance etc.. students are not protesting the $25/month hike. Maybe that English Lit degree will look better with a few criminal charges tacked on.

Personally, boot ALL the protesters out and bar them from returning to a Canadian post secondary institution. Don't drop the criminal charges and make the fines stick.

[vengie]

Amen.

[flipstah]

One of the comments said it best,


In the 60s we protested war. Now the students want things for free. Big difference.

[KrisYYC]

Time to end transfer payments to Quebec.

[Maybelater]

Originally posted by flipstah
One of the comments said it best,



Yah because that was really all only what the 60s hippie movement was really about :rolleyes:

[syritis]

I say let them protest. they'll get arrested one by one and hopefully locked away until they learn what the bare minimum is.

[Supa Dexta]

Originally posted by Maybelater


Yah because that was really all only what the 60s hippie movement was really about :rolleyes:

Well that and protesting literacy.

Also, I'd like to see more horse tramplings at these events.

[cancer man]

Like we did'nt see this coming?Come on guys every 10 years minimum.
It's in their genes.

[Supa Dexta]

edit

[heavyfuel]

I'm from Montreal and I generally don't like this anti-Quebec bullshit, but in this case, fuck em right to hell.

[Masked Bandit]

What's next? They protest when the don't get $85,000 a year jobs handed to them on a plate 10 minutes after graduation?

[ZenOps]

France just went full commun... I mean socialist. Nothing says socialist like a free education.

Rob Anders would be proud, China is now heavy on the right and the white folks are all cramming to the left.

Personally I say let them protest. Its a national pastime, and at least they are being honest about what they want.

[spikerS]

Brett Wilson posted the following on his FB, have to mostly agree with him here.


Struggling to understand the justification for the protests in Quebec - this has gone way beyond raising a point - which democracy provides for. Three months of ever increasing confrontation - property damage - and infringement of (and terrifying) the rights of other citizens - is not acceptable.

Issues of corruption - raise the issue - civil disobedience worked for Mandela and Apartheid and Ghandi's fight over British rule.

Protesting - while masked - over tuition increases that are both huge (% wise) and equitable ($ wise) - is a weekend or two - raise awareness - make your point - then work/vote - for change.

Imagine one of the protestors going through a tough work appraisal in the real world - and THEN storming around his employers office - maybe masked - terrorizing all staff - demanding more pay for a shorter work week.

Not so good eh?

[DRKM]

I disagree. We live in a democracy, let them protest.

Fuck, kids pay almost double what I paid for uni. Its a fact that educated societies breed innovation and higher standards of living.

[TimG]

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a3/zillathegorilla/Blog%20pics/artsmeme.jpg

[Canmorite]

Originally posted by DRKM
Its a fact that educated societies breed innovation and higher standards of living.

True. However, should we just throw caution to the wind when assessing tuition rates and make everything free?

IMO, something that is free has little value. Tuition should be accessible to all-not free. I believe education is already 70-80% subsidized by the Government depending on the province.

Co-pay creates a vested interest from the student. If they're not willing to contribute for something very valuable, whether it be 10% or 20%, how committed are they? :dunno:

[Spoons]

I really don't get people these days.

"Go to school you have to!"

So then you get a bunch of kids who feel obligated to go to school, so then they take art and literature and stuff they enjoy, or simply take because it's easiest and they feel again, obligated to go.

"You hippies and your art and literature degrees! Worthless"

Well what were we expecting here? We as a society make it so kids feel it's necessary to go to school as I already pointed out.

"Speak up and voice your opinion! But try not and be violent..."

So we have world leaders and people of power that move to war as a solution all the time. It is an unfortunate thing, but violence is at the root of our society. We were built on violence. So of course when you have protests and people feel they are not being heard, they move to violence. What happens when talks and what not fail on an international scale? Violence.

"Your complaining about higher tuition prices? Stop bitching and pay your money!"

Baby boomers had it fucking easy. And guess who is the majority of the ones complaining as such? A majority of baby boomers are in their positions with little to no schooling. The hoops that kids now have to jump through were absolutely non-existent back in the day.

Anyone going to school at the moment knows exactly what Quebec knows, but it hasn't gotten as bad yet in other places. Tuition is high, and for no apparent reason. I heard a comparison the other day, and the way tuition has increased would be the same as a school back in the 50's to just randomly triple their tuition.

I took 1 year of engineering. 1. I didn't enjoy it at all and decided against continuing (I did not fail out)... Now I am stuck with a 10K debt for it. Absolutely absurd for a single year of schooling.

I have friends graduating now facing a 50K debt. I was apart of the residence students association when I was at U of C and had to deal with the inner workings of the uni as the business manager. Trust me, the way the decide these things is ridiculous. On an off point, they increased their rez prices because "everyone else was charging more"...... Well yeah, they were charging more because they had way nicer rez's that didn't date pre 80's. I barely had hot showers. And they felt that they could raise the prices.... Because they can.

People of an older generation are making it incredibly difficult for the younger generations to be successful. So then when enough is enough and we follow the ways of that people have set before us, we are outrageous and should be dealt with swiftly.

I fear we are hopeless at times.








But sure lets try and break up a nation and divide that which was once a great stride, to stretch from coast to coast. We are fucking Canadians for god sakes, we are better than this. Everyone can sit on their horse and say what they wish, but instead how about we start putting our fucking foot down, stop thinking about numbers and how greedy we all are, and fucking do something about it.

The situation isn't going to get better, only worse if we keep heading the direction we are headed.

[flipstah]

Originally posted by Spoons
I really don't get people these days.

"Go to school you have to!"

So then you get a bunch of kids who feel obligated to go to school, so then they take art and literature and stuff they enjoy, or simply take because it's easiest and they feel again, obligated to go.



Uhh what? People chose to go to post-secondary because they feel that it's going to give them a competitive edge. If you don't think it is, then you shouldn't have and thought of other ways to make yourself stand out from the workplace.

No one held a gun to your head and say, 'study accounting!'


Originally posted by Spoons

"Speak up and voice your opinion! But try not and be violent..."

So we have world leaders and people of power that move to war as a solution all the time. It is an unfortunate thing, but violence is at the root of our society. We were built on violence. So of course when you have protests and people feel they are not being heard, they move to violence. What happens when talks and what not fail on an international scale? Violence.

You can't really compare war and protesting; different scales of stupidity.

Everyone has the right to protest and that's what makes this country awesome. At least respect other people when you're doing so and don't deface the city that they love by destroying shit.


Originally posted by Spoons

"Your complaining about higher tuition prices? Stop bitching and pay your money!"

Baby boomers had it fucking easy. And guess who is the majority of the ones complaining as such? A majority of baby boomers are in their positions with little to no schooling. The hoops that kids now have to jump through were absolutely non-existent back in the day.

Anyone going to school at the moment knows exactly what Quebec knows, but it hasn't gotten as bad yet in other places. Tuition is high, and for no apparent reason. I heard a comparison the other day, and the way tuition has increased would be the same as a school back in the 50's to just randomly triple their tuition.

I dare you to tell that to a baby boomer's face. WE have it easy. Everything is spoon-fed to us and frankly, it raises an entitlement generation that I don't approve of.

"Gimme this; gimme that"... Where's the proof that you earned it?


Originally posted by Spoons

I took 1 year of engineering. 1. I didn't enjoy it at all and decided
against continuing (I did not fail out)... Now I am stuck with a 10K debt for it. Absolutely absurd for a single year of schooling.


Just like everyone in life, you learnt the hard way. I learnt that sometimes in life, materials won't bring you happiness; only memories? How did I learn that? Look at my credit card bills.

Decisions have consequences. Deal with it.


Originally posted by Spoons

I have friends graduating now facing a 50K debt. I was apart of the residence students association when I was at U of C and had to deal with the inner workings of the uni as the business manager. Trust me, the way the decide these things is ridiculous. On an off point, they increased their rez prices because "everyone else was charging more"...... Well yeah, they were charging more because they had way nicer rez's that didn't date pre 80's. I barely had hot showers. And they felt that they could raise the prices.... Because they can.

I hope you did something about that or were you also a sheep for the SU shepherd? Don't get me started about the UofC Student Union.


Originally posted by Spoons
People of an older generation are making it incredibly difficult for the younger generations to be successful. So then when enough is enough and we follow the ways of that people have set before us, we are outrageous and should be dealt with swiftly.

But sure lets try and break up a nation and divide that which was once a great stride, to stretch from coast to coast. We are fucking Canadians for god sakes, we are better than this. Everyone can sit on their horse and say what they wish, but instead how about we start putting our fucking foot down, stop thinking about numbers and how greedy we all are, and fucking do something about it.

The situation isn't going to get better, only worse if we keep heading the direction we are headed.

The government is trying everything they can to have togetherness but the French are just too proud and want sovereignty while leeching off the successes of others.

FYI: Quebec still has the lowest tuition rates compared to other provinces and Canada as a whole, has subsidization.

Just ask any foreign exchange student and tell them how much you're suffering.

[-relk-]

Im not against letting them protest, but the reasons behind the protests are absurd imo.

First, they are already paying the lowest tuition in the country. Someone told me (and this could be way off, but from googling it, it appears to be true) that they pay somewhere around $2000 dollars a YEAR for tuition. The proposed "hike" is supposed to bring that number up to around $5000 by 2017. I pay more than that at this very moment for my schooling in Lethbridge, and my tuition still increases every year (which I am sure it does everywhere). You don't see anybody else in the country complaining? So why should the students currently with the lowest tuition (and that still won't change) be the ones protesting? Doesn't make sense to me.

By all means, go and protest if you feel that you are so entitled to keeping your tuition at less than half of anywhere else in the country, but don't go around breaking shit and causing damage to businesses and public facilities that have nothing to do with the tuition hike. Not to mention going to disturb classes that students are actually paying for.

Edit: My facts could be off, as I am not an expert on the subject

[kenny]

You cannot understand the whole situation by just comparing tuition costs. Quebecers pay much higher provincial income taxes that allow stuff like tuition and costs of day care to be lower (its not because of Equalization payments as many seem to think)

Their first tax bracket rate is 2-3x that of the Canadian average (16% for first 40k) (BC/Ontario are about 5% for first 40k)

[Spoons]

Originally posted by flipstah
...

I was going to try and respond but I'm bowing out.

1) You missed my points on so many different levels, I don' even want to take the time to tell you where.

2) This thread is going to turn into a joke pretty soon, so I'm just not even going to bother.

3) I'm not trying to be rude, and I completely respect your opinion, I just realized how futile arguing this over the internet would be.

I said my opinion and I'm done. Quebec does have the lowest tuition rates, but my point of the being is this sort of stuff needs to happen everywhere. Prices are absurd.

[JRSC00LUDE]

I don't know Spoons I read your coments and I too think you just have a somewhat skewed view of reality to be honest, partly due to your age I would suggest.

And as far as your/your friends debt goes......sorry man but cry me a fucking river. I know people that finished uni with debt-loads that high. I also know people that finished uni with essentially no debt. Not because they were given a free ride, because they worked two jobs the whole time they went to school and slaved their asses off all summer making money doing whatever jobs they could.

[Canmorite]

Originally posted by JRSC00LUDE
I don't know Spoons I read your coments and I too think you just have a somewhat skewed view of reality to be honest, partly due to your age I would suggest.

And as far as your/your friends debt goes......sorry man but cry me a fucking river. I know people that finished uni with debt-loads that high. I also know people that finished uni with essentially no debt. Not because they were given a free ride, because they worked two jobs the whole time they went to school and slaved their asses off all summer making money doing whatever jobs they could.

The debt amount can be a non-issue if you graduate and are making 60-100K/yr a few years out of university as well. You are borrowing to buy earning potential in the future.

There are about 10 protestors on Stephen Ave and 1st SW. I think they are protesting in 'solidarity' with the students right to protest. Didn't see much else or stop to ask...

[speedog]

Spoons, you made my day as I am one of those baby boomers/older generation that is totally enjoying fucking you over very chance I get.

Just don't forget that you might need to start bending over a bit more because I am getting older and just don't have the mobility and reach I used to when trying to ram my point home.

[flipstah]

Originally posted by Spoons


I was going to try and respond but I'm bowing out.

1) You missed my points on so many different levels, I don' even want to take the time to tell you where.

2) This thread is going to turn into a joke pretty soon, so I'm just not even going to bother.

3) I'm not trying to be rude, and I completely respect your opinion, I just realized how futile arguing this over the internet would be.

I said my opinion and I'm done. Quebec does have the lowest tuition rates, but my point of the being is this sort of stuff needs to happen everywhere. Prices are absurd.

I respect your opinion as well but I'm quite curious as to where I had faults in.

I would like to know more; only way to learn is to know where you get burnt.

[tenth]

Originally posted by kenny
You cannot understand the whole situation by just comparing tuition costs. Quebecers pay much higher provincial income taxes that allow stuff like tuition and costs of day care to be lower (its not because of Equalization payments as many seem to think)

Their first tax bracket rate is 2-3x that of the Canadian average (16% for first 40k) (BC/Ontario are about 5% for first 40k)
While they are taxed much higher, approximately 15% of their revenue comes from equalization payments from the government, which is a giant number for a province that big ($8-9 billion a year in equalization payments). 33% of their revenue in general is federally sourced. At least according to their 2011-2012 budget plan (had difficulties finding revenues for the 2012-2013 budget).
http://www.budget.finances.gouv.qc.ca/Budget/2011-2012/en/documents/BudgetPlan.pdf

[BananaFob]

Originally posted by Spoons


I took 1 year of engineering. 1. I didn't enjoy it at all and decided against continuing (I did not fail out)... Now I am stuck with a 10K debt for it. Absolutely absurd for a single year of schooling.



Sorry, going to have to call you out on that one.

http://forums.beyond.ca/showthread.php?s=&postid=3011226#post3011226

You make it sound like someone forced you to go to school. No one did, and no one forced you to slack off and fail linear algebra either.

It totally is a question of entitlement. Taxpayers shouldn't have to foot a bill whether it's $10,000, $5,000 or $1,000 for people to search for what they want to do in their lives.

[Spoons]

Originally posted by BananaFob


Sorry, going to have to call you out on that one.

http://forums.beyond.ca/showthread.php?s=&postid=3011226#post3011226

You make it sound like someone forced you to go to school. No one did, and no one forced you to slack off and fail linear algebra either.

It totally is a question of entitlement. Taxpayers shouldn't have to foot a bill whether it's $10,000, $5,000 or $1,000 for people to search for what they want to do in their lives.

There is also a whole lot of context and a whole lot that went on with that situation. That thread proves absolutely nothing. FFS it isn't even my thread, just a comment I made.

You also assumed that I slacked off and failed linear algebra, for that you can fuck yourself. You're digging for a point. You literally had like 2 posts to determine something that I dealt with for over 2 months.

Again my point is being missed. I've moved my discussion with flipstah to PM so it doesn't get all beyondified.

[schocker]

Originally posted by BananaFob


Sorry, going to have to call you out on that one.

http://forums.beyond.ca/showthread.php?s=&postid=3011226#post3011226

You make it sound like someone forced you to go to school. No one did, and no one forced you to slack off and fail linear algebra either.

It totally is a question of entitlement. Taxpayers shouldn't have to foot a bill whether it's $10,000, $5,000 or $1,000 for people to search for what they want to do in their lives.
Lol, called out :rofl:

I did two years at uofc eng before I did the reverse transfer program to sait and that did cost quite a bit for that lesson. I did my two years at sait after though and came out with no debt due to living at home and starting working at 16 and saving away.

I do question the spelling in the thread title though
:rofl:

[JRSC00LUDE]

Originally posted by BananaFob
It totally is a question of entitlement. Taxpayers shouldn't have to foot a bill whether it's $10,000, $5,000 or $1,000 for people to search for what they want to do in their lives.

The entitlement thing is exactly that. Life has been made so god damn easy for the current 18-21 or so range while they "grew up" that they think they have it bad when they have to work for something, struggle for something, go without for something, etc. Nothing is their fault, everyone is a victim and the world owes them a thousand different things by virtue of their being born.

Like it or not Spoons, your comments/viewpoint are just painting you to be one of them. I'm not insulting you for it, it's not likely your fault but see if you stand by those opinions in 10 years.

[BananaFob]

Originally posted by Spoons




You also assumed that I slacked off and failed linear algebra, for that you can fuck yourself.


http://forums.beyond.ca/showthread.php?s=&postid=2735254#post2735254

ORLY? I didn't assume, I just remember you whining about this 3 years ago + the other thread where you went on and on about how it was the professor's fault that you didn't do well. This again reinforces MY point about how its the blame everyone else first, me me me mentality of this generation.

Tuition prices SHOULD be high to weed people out so that there is a significant financial burden should you so choose to slack off and do poorly. No one else should have to pick up that tab except the person making the choice.

[Tik-Tok]

I bought a car for $10g, without doing any research into it and it's a total lemon, that had 12 accidents!!! It's not even driveable!

Society has told me I should own a car... why the fuck isn't the government paying this POS off for me?

[Agent_Oorange]

Originally posted by Tik-Tok
I bought a car for $10g, without doing any research into it and it's a total lemon, that had 12 accidents!!! It's not even driveable!

Society has told me I should own a car... why the fuck isn't the government paying this POS off for me?

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[flipstah]

Originally posted by BananaFob


http://forums.beyond.ca/showthread.php?s=&postid=2735254#post2735254

ORLY? I didn't assume, I just remember you whining about this 3 years ago + the other thread where you went on and on about how it was the professor's fault that you didn't do well. This again reinforces MY point about how its the blame everyone else first, me me me mentality of this generation.

Tuition prices SHOULD be high to weed people out so that there is a significant financial burden should you so choose to slack off and do poorly. No one else should have to pick up that tab except the person making the choice.

Fuck, it's like going back in time! Reliving the highs/lows of university.

I miss it. :(

[Spoons]

I was going to... But I decided not to.

I don't have time for Beyonds silly antics today. Especially not in this realm as it will turn into a shit show.

... albeit I'm still clueless on what you were trying to get at banana... Because some how someone failing a class and blaming it on a professor means I'm an entitled little shit.

[Mibz]

Originally posted by Spoons
I don't have time for Beyonds silly antics today. Then stop fucking posting, holy shit.

[clem24]

Originally posted by Tik-Tok
I bought a car for $10g, without doing any research into it and it's a total lemon, that had 12 accidents!!! It's not even driveable!

Society has told me I should own a car... why the fuck isn't the government paying this POS off for me?

Fuck you that car was only invovled in NINE accidents, not 12... ;)

[Silviawannab]

Interesting...

[CapnCrunch]

Life's hard and expensive. :whocares:

[Graham_A_M]

Originally posted by Tik-Tok
I bought a car for $10g, without doing any research into it and it's a total lemon, that had 12 accidents!!! It's not even driveable!

Society has told me I should own a car... why the fuck isn't the government paying this POS off for me?

Quebec, the Greece of the western world. :rofl:

[borN]

Originally posted by Mibz
Then stop fucking posting, holy shit.

:rofl:

[HyperZell]

Originally posted by Tik-Tok
I bought a car for $10g, without doing any research into it and it's a total lemon, that had 12 accidents!!! It's not even driveable!

Society has told me I should own a car... why the fuck isn't the government paying this POS off for me?

This just won the thread.


Spoons, you're cool and all, but you should rethink this one. Your comments have "entitlement" and "blame others" and "wah" written all over them.

[JRSC00LUDE]

Originally posted by HyperZell


This just won the thread.


Spoons, you're cool and all, but you should rethink this one. Your comments have "entitlement" and "blame others" and "wah" written all over them.

Stop with the antics. Beyonder.

[FraserB]

People on the corner by city hall with some big banner.

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by schocker

due to living at home

You are a joke.

While Spoons may or not be an entitled individual, ANYONE who lives at home while attending post secondary has no right to say anything on this subject. Education is cheap compared to living expenses in this province.

[psycoticclown]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1


You are a joke.

While Spoons may or not be an entitled individual, ANYONE who lives at home while attending post secondary has no right to say anything on this subject. Education is cheap compared to living expenses in this province.

Uhhh... wtf does that have to do with anything? Just because you lived at home, your opinion doesn't count? :facepalm:

Choosing what school you go to and where you live is a decision too, if you can't afford to move out and go to a school in an expensive city and you have a school in your hometown, you can only blame yourself if you are in debt. Nobody forced you to move out, plenty of people live at home because they know they can't go to a school in a different city or move out.

[Spoons]

Originally posted by JRSC00LUDE


Stop with the antics. Beyonder.

:rofl:

While I stand by my opinion, today was a really rough day and I didn't portray it exactly correct. By no mean did I want to sound like an entitled little snot because I'm in no way not.

I've bought the clothes on my back and the food in my belly since I was 16. I've paid rent (even living with my parents) since I was 18. I am in no way entitled and have worked damn hard for everything I have and proud of it.

My main point was that as much as people say it is, it really isn't as easy as a lot of you are making it out to be. Most of you on here come from relatively wealthy families. You work hard and can afford to pour your money into school but a lot have a fall back. I have nothing to fall back on. Just me myself and I.

I will step out of this one for good now, but I didn't want to apologize if I came off in the way that it looks like I did.

[Toma]

This country DESPERATELY NEEDS free education.

Way too many fucking idiots. (especially Alberta).

However, 2 subjects we MUST teach kids right from elementary.

Social psychology (propaganda, persuasion and influence techniques).

Philosophy-Logic (specifically subjects that relate to critical thinking)

Education is an essential service, like health care.

[flipstah]

I'm still waiting for my rebuttal.

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by Toma
This country DESPERATELY NEEDS free education.

Way too many fucking idiots. (especially Alberta).


Educated idiots are still idiots. I fail to see how giving them free education to squander, when they have no idea what kind of career they want, will help the country.

Perhaps if the "free" education was for 25+ year olds.

[HyperZell]

Originally posted by JRSC00LUDE


Stop with the antics. Beyonder.

Thanks for the new sig. Beyonder.

[Unknown303]

Originally posted by Tik-Tok


Educated idiots are still idiots. I fail to see how giving them free education to squander, when they have no idea what kind of career they want, will help the country.

Perhaps if the "free" education was for 25+ year olds.

I know a group of "Canadians" that already get free education and see how well that's panned out for them.. I'm talking about the original Canadians BTW... The more free shit you give people the worse off they become. Make a person responsible for their direction and they will be way better off in the long run.

[Weapon_R]

Originally posted by Toma
This country DESPERATELY NEEDS free education.


Strongly disagree with this. First, education in this country is DIRT CHEAP and heavily subsidized, but more importantly, the $60k in loans I have make sure I wake up every morning to go to work so I can be sure to pay them off.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by Toma
This country DESPERATELY NEEDS free education.

Way too many fucking idiots. (especially Alberta).

However, 2 subjects we MUST teach kids right from elementary.

Social psychology (propaganda, persuasion and influence techniques).

Philosophy-Logic (specifically subjects that relate to critical thinking)

Education is an essential service, like health care.

Education is basically free til grade 12.

There should be free education for kids showing potentials. We do have a pretty good scholarship system already but not good enough to get someone thru undergrad for free. But there should be.

Free for all post secondary is just a waste of money. As someone in the IT industry, I don't think my degree help much in my career. Nor do I held degree highly when I interview noobs/interns.

[blitz]

Originally posted by psycoticclown
Choosing what school you go to and where you live is a decision too, if you can't afford to move out and go to a school in an expensive city and you have a school in your hometown, you can only blame yourself if you are in debt. Nobody forced you to move out, plenty of people live at home because they know they can't go to a school in a different city or move out.

I'd just like to point out that not all cities have post secondary. The only degree I could have gotten in my hometown was in "Communications" :rofl:

[busdepot]

Here's my take. As someone who actually went to school in Quebec, and also went to school in Alberta, there are some distinct differences in the mentality that happens there.

Bachelor degree programs are only 3 years long for students as they have to do two years in CEGEP, which is grade 12 & first year university combined. CEGEP's out of province tuition fees are around $1,200 per semester. This is the cost of two classes any where else in Canada. Students in Quebec only go to CEGEP if they're planning to attend post secondary, be it a degree program or a trade. Now stop. There's a large population of CEGEP students who are protesting these tuition increases. These kids are 17-19, meaning a lot of them have never paid for anything in their lives and are completely sheltered. Just like those maggots vandalizing cars in McKenzie. So there's a first problem; maturity.

My tuition in QC was $1,350 per semester, which is a small increase. They want to increase tuition by roughly 22% accross the board for students. I have friends who live in Montreal and are studying there. There are very few, if any, students from trades, engineering, sciences, finance, commerce or accounting who are part-taking in these riots. This leaves CEGEP kids, and the kids studying French Literature from the 1600's. Anyone who's has actually gone to school will know that the chances of getting a good job outside of school with these non-commercial programs is difficult at best. So, they feel that by jacking up their tuition, they're being robbed even further.

Quebec also has a significantly higher income tax rate for residents. Alberta has a flat provincial rate of 10%. Quebec has a tiered rate which starts at 16% and goes to 24% (53% income tax in the top rate vs 39% here). Not that anyone rioting is making money, but that's where some of the entitlement comes from.

Quebec also has an exceptional post secondary system. Some of the schools in Quebec are among the highest ranked schools in the world. McGill is reknowned world wide, HEC Montreal is one of the top 10 Non-US business schools worldwide (compared with Oxford and Warsaw). So all of the sudden, it gets to be way more expensive, I'd be a little rattled too. While no one in the rest of Canada feels sorry for them, myself included, it's not fair to paint all of QC with the same brush. There is some background to it. The riots are a bunch of bored kids who want to be all teenage-angst-y and cause a stir. They should all just shut the fuck up and go back to working at the Belle Province and getting me my poutine in a hurry. Because that's where 95% of those rioters are going to be. "Veux-tu les frites?". It's just like Vancouver. Blah blah, car on fire, we're so bad ass, wait no one gives a shit... okay...

Tuition should never be free. It's a barrier that keeps it from being taken for granted, which for the youth in Western society, is a huge problem. By keeping a financial boundary, it does help to weed out some of the kids who don't really want to be there. While it does keep a small number of kids out for financial reasons, many of these challenges can be overcome. I know many students who paid their own way through school and living on their own working at Starbucks who were poorer than dirt because they wanted a good job and good life and weren't afraid to actually work for something. So don't spread that bullshit. It can be done. Debt? You're going to school to get a job. Canadian students could rack up $90,000 in debt with a 4 year degree. You could pay that off in 8 years with a good job out of school. It's called growning the fuck up and being a responsible adult. I did it. Lots of others do it. Deal with it **cat with sunglasses**

The rich kids who get handed their tuition typically have a much harder time in university and realize by the end that they're not God's gift to the world when they flunk their stats classes. Daddy won't be able to buy them intelligence. Sure, they'll flunk out and get a good job at dad's oil company anyways. Putting them right back to where they would've been had they not even bothered going to school.

This leaves a high number of kids graduating who wanted to be there and leaves Canada with a good professional work force of people who actually know what they're talking about. I don't want to dilute the value of my education by letting everyone in. I worked fucking hard for the paper and letters behind my name and so did everyone else who actually went to school. There's a reason why Canadian Chartered Accountants and Professional Engineers and Tradespeople are respected world wide. That didn't happen over night. They worked for those titles and reputations. I'm not going to let my credentials dilute themselves by opening it and just giving it to everyone. I'm all for accessibilty, but that giving it away just does not work in North American Psyche. It works in Scandinavia but those kids aren't raised the same way as they are here. Making it free, will turn it into like getting free t-shirts. The value of education will be cheapened just like everything that's cheap here. Free tuition will never work in North America. Period.

/rant.

[Unknown303]

Originally posted by busdepot
Here's my take........

/rant.

You combined words well. Solid arguement/statement.

[effingidiot]

Originally posted by Unknown303


You combined words well. Solid arguement/statement.

I agree. Involuntary servitude and debt bondage FTW :thumbsup:

[schocker]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1


You are a joke.

While Spoons may or not be an entitled individual, ANYONE who lives at home while attending post secondary has no right to say anything on this subject. Education is cheap compared to living expenses in this province.
Ya I am a joke. I would have been living in a cardboard box outside of uofc/sait. I am glad you are my banker and know how much money I have :facepalm:

[revelations]

Originally posted by busdepot
I'm all for accessibilty, but that giving it away just does not work in North American Psyche. It works in Scandinavia but those kids aren't raised the same way as they are here. Making it free, will turn it into like getting free t-shirts. The value of education will be cheapened just like everything that's cheap here. Free tuition will never work in North America. Period.

/rant.

Very well said.





I am from Finland; the society as a whole (in most Nordic countries) generally promote collective success, rather than individual success.

While they have added fees to tuition in many of the Nordic countries (for the reasons you mentioned), its still far cheaper there.

[frizzlefry]

First world problems for you frenchie students. Boo hoo. I swear you better get a decent degree if the gov't caves. My sister got an Arts Degree. Acting. She has appeared in national sitcoms and commercials. She has done off-Broadway and been an understudy for a main Broadway show. She keeps her arts diploma in the can with a glass frame that says "break in case of emergency". She admits its useless. And this is worth protesting over? Hell, even kids with art degrees know they are worthless. I would hope engineers would know better than to not protest. No firm I know of will hire a f’ing whiner.

[Maybelater]

I'm going to try and make my way through this thread without wasting a whole lots of time. So here it goes.

First thought I get when the education debate comes up is the thought if these same subjects all occurred when people like Napoleon decided to create free primary education systems across conquered Europe. Planting seed for future projects across the West. Did people all whine that it would be a waste of money to educated people who were not going to do much more then toil soil?


Originally posted by flipstah
Uhh what? People chose to go to post-secondary because they feel that it's going to give them a competitive edge. If you don't think it is, then you shouldn't have and thought of other ways to make yourself stand out from the workplace.

No one held a gun to your head and say, 'study accounting!'

I doubt that was his point at all. He was pointing that society pressures young people very heavily these days into school, most parents think their children have failed for not wanting to get a higher education. Additionally, society has glorified the idea of being a white-collar baller so much nobody has any pride in blue-collar trades anymore.

Just look at the attitude on this forum, people seem to think people who work with their hands for a career are instantly a drunk living in a NE trailer park when we all know that lots of those careers are actually very stable middle-class jobs.

So with all this pressure plenty of young people make a impulsive and likely immature decision when it comes to schooling (these are people just getting to know themselves and the world outside of home).



Originally posted by flipstah

You can't really compare war and protesting; different scales of stupidity.

Everyone has the right to protest and that's what makes this country awesome. At least respect other people when you're doing so and don't deface the city that they love by destroying shit.

I do agree, but I don't see how war got involved into this. Some of our greatest rights have been afforded to us by civil resistance.


Originally posted by flipstah
I dare you to tell that to a baby boomer's face. WE have it easy. Everything is spoon-fed to us and frankly, it raises an entitlement generation that I don't approve of.

"Gimme this; gimme that"... Where's the proof that you earned it?

Ha, why wouldn't I? The boomers are the entitlement generation. They had the highest rates of trade unionism, they brought about the vast free healthcare system, they hold the highest levels of debt today, they are all up in arms about retirement 55 being a myth. They all bitch and complain about peoples entitlements in tea-parties down south the border, yet they all seem to think they still deserve medicare, medicade and old age security.

They had it easier and after they used the upward mobility afforded to them through the system set up by society then they pulled up the ladder they used with them.


Originally posted by flipstah

Just ask any foreign exchange student and tell them how much you're suffering.

Non-tax payers who are going to likely never use their skills in Canada are totally irreverent to this conversation. Canadians schools should be taking in Canadians first and foremost instead of depending on foreigners from overseas for hard dollars.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------


Originally posted by Graham_A_M


Quebec, the Greece of the western world. :rofl:

Greece is in the Western world, it is the root of Western philosophy and society.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------


Originally posted by busdepot
I don't want to dilute the value of my education by letting everyone in. I worked fucking hard for the paper and letters behind my name and so did everyone else who actually went to school. There's a reason why Canadian Chartered Accountants and Professional Engineers and Tradespeople are respected world wide. That didn't happen over night. They worked for those titles and reputations. I'm not going to let my credentials dilute themselves by opening it and just giving it to everyone. I'm all for accessibilty, but that giving it away just does not work in North American Psyche. It works in Scandinavia but those kids aren't raised the same way as they are here. Making it free, will turn it into like getting free t-shirts. The value of education will be cheapened just like everything that's cheap here. Free tuition will never work in North America. Period.

/rant.

The Scandinavian system is based off scholastic competitiveness. This system is by far superior to financial competitiveness.

Removing the financial requirement would create an influx of intelligent people who are otherwise not capable of attending school due to the financial burdens of higher education. It would also allow for people to continue education longer as they would be free from crippling debt that might stop them from achieving full potential.

Just because education is free doesn't mean that more people are going to be enrolled as a result. If education was free the bar for enrollment would be raised, not lowered due to the influx of demand for a limited amount of positions. The hardworking ones will get in after they do what it takes to get in, that proves more seriousness then how much money you or mom and dad can throw around.

[Maybelater]

If anyone is interested, here is some real hard numbers.




http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/personal-finance/2012-vs-1984-young-adults-really-do-have-it-harder-today/article2425558/

2012 vs. 1984: Young adults really do have it harder today

All young adults who think they’re getting a raw deal in today’s economy, let me tell you about how it was back in my day.

In 1984, my final undergraduate year of university, tuition cost more or less $1,000. I earned that much in a summer without breaking a sweat.

When I went looking for a new car in 1986, the average cost was roughly half of what it is now. It was totally affordable.

The average price of a house in Toronto back in 1984 was just over $96,000. I wasn’t buying just then, but it’s worth noting that the average family after-tax income back then was close to $50,000. Buy a first home? Easy to imagine for new graduates of the day.

I had it easier than today’s twentysomethings, and I have no problem saying so. But quite a few others can’t see what all the fuss is about when it comes to the financial concerns of today’s young adults.

This became clear as responses poured in to last week’s column tying the Quebec student protests to the financial challenges faced by people who are trying to make the jump from college and university into the work force.

Some responses were heartfelt, like the one from a 78-year-old gentleman who said he grew up “in abject poverty on a farm” and worked to pay for his education. But other comments reflected a view that today’s young adults should just grow up.

My sense is that’s what they’re trying to do. But it’s tougher out there than some of you might know.

After earning a three-year BA (majoring in political science) at York University in Toronto back in 1984, I landed a summer job as a copy editor at The Canadian Press, the national wire service. I earned enough to spend a year in Ottawa earning a bachelor of journalism degree at Carleton University. I had to work the Christmas holidays at CP to top up my savings, but I was financially self-sufficient and incurred zero debt.

Today, financial self-sufficiency is impossible without taking breaks from school to work. The Bank of Canada’s handy inflation calculator tells us that my $1,000 tuition back in 1984 would cost $2,028 today if it increased just by the inflation rate annually. But according to Statistics Canada, the latest read on average tuition fees is $5,366.

In Ontario, the minimum wage is $10.25. A student who puts in a 40-hour work week for 12 weeks would stand to make about $4,900. That’s a sizable shortfall on tuition, never mind the cost of student fees, books and living expenses. As a parent of an 18-year-old heading to university out of town next year, I can tell you that budgeting $18,000 to $20,000 per year is prudent.

Buying a house is another point where the experience of older Canadians is unlike what today’s younger generation faces. Canadian Real Estate Association data show the average national price of a home in mid-1984 was $76,214. If houses kept up with inflation – and that would be a pretty good result all on its own – the average house would now cost $154,587. In April, the actual average was $369,677.

That’s an annualized gain of 5.8 per cent across the country. In cities like Toronto and Vancouver, the yearly increases are even more pronounced.

House prices themselves are an abstract number – the real question is how affordable a home is. Data from a 2011 Conference Board of Canada study on income inequality shows the average family after-tax income in 1984 was $48,500. In 2009, the latest date included in the study, income levels had risen to $60,000. In 1984, a house might have cost a family 1.6 times its annual income. Today, we’re looking at a multiple of something around six.

Not everything is more expensive for today’s young adults – mortgage rates were in double digits back in 1984 (but then again so were savings rates), and cars have pretty well risen in price along with inflation. And not everything is worse, at least on the surface. Today’s headline unemployment rate of 7.2 per cent beats the rate of almost 12 per cent back in the mid-1980s. Look deeper into those numbers and you find a youth unemployment rate of 18 per cent back then and 13.9 per cent today. Young adults haven’t benefited nearly as much as the overall population from declining unemployment trends.

Back in my day? Economically speaking, life was easier for the young adult.

Those were the days


http://i46.tinypic.com/2dlve3p.png

[Maybelater]

Double post.

Sorry.

[Ergo-Sun-Tzu]

http://www.calgaryherald.com/business/energy-resources/20says/6656100/story.html

Ha, there's no reason for Canadians to go to school or get work anymore. When a company can hire TFW for 15% less why protest at all.

[FraserB]

Originally posted by Maybelater
Just look at the attitude on this forum, people seem to think people who work with their hands for a career are instantly a drunk living in a NE trailer park when we all know that lots of those careers are actually very stable middle-class jobs.

So with all this pressure plenty of young people make a impulsive and likely immature decision when it comes to schooling (these are people just getting to know themselves and the world outside of home).



Looking down on people with trades or who work in a non-office environment is hardly a common attitude on this forum. People like Dave and Tire Bob who do not work "white collar" jobs are not looked down on. There are a ton of people who work on the field side of the oil and gas industry and you don't see threads talking about their lack of a "real" job. I think that overall, the old attitude towards trades is rapidly changing and if you still think that the trades are not a great option, you're retarded.

As far as making an impulsive decision about school, by the time someone is 18 or 19 they should have a decent idea of what they want to do with their life. The people who are protesting decided of their own free will that they want to pursue a degree with very limited employment opportunities, but for some reason don't think they should pay for it. After they graduate, they will be protesting that no one will hire them. It's called personal responsibility and the vast majority of people aged 17-25 need to figure out what it is.

[sputnik]

http://i46.tinypic.com/2dlve3p.png

I think they should show what the average mortgage PAYMENT was in 1984 compared to 2012.

My parents had a 15% mortgage in 1984.

Lets take the $94,154 house in Calgary. In 1984 you would need 25% down so your remaining mortgage would be $70,615.

This would leave you with a payment of $880/month in 1984 dollars after saving nearly $25,000 in cash. How much were people making in 1984? Was it easy to save that kind of money?

Now lets assume that you buy the $409,000 house in Calgary today. To be fair we should require a down payment equal to 25% of the inflation adjusted house (since houses would be cheaper today if 25% down was required). So throw $50,000 at the $409,000 house and at todays rates you would have a payment of about $1700/month.

Sure it is a higher number. However I would venture to say that household incomes are double today what they were in 1984.

So do we really have it that much harder from a month to month perspective?

[Sugarphreak]

...

[ipeefreely]

There are always two sides to every story…


Note to Quebec students, debt-ridden Eurozone counries: Life has always been hard, for most people, most of the time

Boomers shouldn't feel guilty in era of entitlement (http://www.edmontonjournal.com/business/Lamphier%2BBoomers%2Bentitlement/6646890/story.html)

[DRKM]

I'm not sure I agree with raising tuition costs to "keep slackers out". Why not raise requirements ?

the price of university is enough to cause serious harm to the academic experiance. University is work, and when you can not put time into it, your learning suffers. Your grades may not be terrible, but the level of fundamental understanding is great,y diminished.

I know this cause I worked full time all throughout university. It sucked. Sure I had no debt, but by having to work I missed out on countless classes and many research opportunities.

Raising the cost only makes it harder for those who have low income backgrounds (like me) in school and when graduated. It creates inequality at university. Makes university a place where your brain is valued, not the economic status of your family or how much debt you were willing to take on.

[busdepot]

Originally posted by Maybelater
[Napoleon] was pointing that society pressures young people very heavily these days into school, most parents think their children have failed for not wanting to get a higher education.

Napoleon didn't have today's youth in mind. He would have been more interested in improving basic literacy for his empire to function. This is hardly comparable to offering free post secondary.


Originally posted by Maybelater
Additionally, society has glorified the idea of being a white-collar baller so much nobody has any pride in blue-collar trades anymore.

You obviously don't have any tradespeople friends. Tradespeople in Canada are the people who get things done. This is what blue collar is. I can sit in my office and organize away, but I can't weld or wire up a building. Tradespeople are very proud of what they do and they should be. Even if you're not a Red Sealed person, and you're working a real job, I doubt very much you would not be proud of what you do. Calgary is one of the most white collar cities in Canada, that's why there's a perceived glorification to it. Go visit Markham, Ontario, you're view will change.



Originally posted by Maybelater
Just look at the attitude on this forum, people seem to think people who work with their hands for a career are instantly a drunk living in a NE trailer park when we all know that lots of those careers are actually very stable middle-class jobs.

Graduating high school and starting a 'landscape company' like so many kids do is exactly that. Tradespeople work with their hands and are paid handsomely for that. Kids who finish high school and get a job as a warehouse employee or a sales clerk, isn't what most of the people want. Look at your audience on Beyond, too. You're talking to a crowd who likes cars. Nice ones, too. Those are expensive, you need to have a good paying job to afford that. If you're happy with $22/hr to run a fork lift, go nuts. I'm not, I have a mortgage to pay and two Lexus (Lexae?) to mod. I worked hard for those.


Originally posted by Maybelater
Ha, why wouldn't I? The boomers are the entitlement generation. They had the highest rates of trade unionism, they brought about the vast free healthcare system, they hold the highest levels of debt today, they are all up in arms about retirement 55 being a myth. They all bitch and complain about peoples entitlements in tea-parties down south the border, yet they all seem to think they still deserve medicare, medicade and old age security.

They had it easier and after they used the upward mobility afforded to them through the system set up by society then they pulled up the ladder they used with them.


Are you being serious right now? Boomers are hardly the entitlement generation. So, so many of them came from farms where they didn't have cell phones or Facebook. They had to go to school, then come home and work on the farm for zero dollars. Most boomers I know worked their asses off to get to where they were with nothing but a shirt on their back. They also had to buy their first homes at +18% interest. Do you know what that does to your mortgage? It's easier today then it was then. Boomers are all retiring leaving so much for potential for anyone with even an ounce of ambition.



Originally posted by Maybelater
The Scandinavian system is based off scholastic competitiveness. This system is by far superior to financial competitiveness.

Removing the financial requirement would create an influx of intelligent people who are otherwise not capable of attending school due to the financial burdens of higher education. It would also allow for people to continue education longer as they would be free from crippling debt that might stop them from achieving full potential.

Just because education is free doesn't mean that more people are going to be enrolled as a result. If education was free the bar for enrollment would be raised, not lowered due to the influx of demand for a limited amount of positions. The hardworking ones will get in after they do what it takes to get in, that proves more seriousness then how much money you or mom and dad can throw around. [/B]

The Canadian system is also based on academic competition. It always has been. In the US, this can be circumvented with a sizeable donation, but in Canada it doesn't really work like that. What's the transfer average GPA needed to transfer into Finance or Accounting at Haskayne these days? High 3's? I'm pretty sure that isn't easy. Academic competition is already there. You think that kids in university aren't already smart? They're just a bunch of kids who had a pile of money sitting around? I don't know too many who didn't work through university to get by.

You would have kids going just because it was free. You wait in line to get a free slice of pizza, you'll wait in line to get a free degree. We don't pay the tax rates to merit 100% subsidized education. Move to Norway and pay 65% income tax then we'll chat. It doesn't work that way here, we live comparably cheaper than any country that has this.

As it's been brought up, $25,000 for a degree program is not expensive. Many people have no problem going to buy a $35,000 Honda Accord. Tuition is Canada is cheap already. Look at other tuitions from around the world, even in the "Communist" European countries. ESCP, a well known European university, costs 9,400 Euro per year. We're getting a bargain.


Originally posted by FraserB


Looking down on people with trades or who work in a non-office environment is hardly a common attitude on this forum. People like Dave and Tire Bob who do not work "white collar" jobs are not looked down on. There are a ton of people who work on the field side of the oil and gas industry and you don't see threads talking about their lack of a "real" job. I think that overall, the old attitude towards trades is rapidly changing and if you still think that the trades are not a great option, you're retarded..

:thumbsup: Word.

[busdepot]

I'm on a Montreal car forum as well (I lived there for a good long time), and even they're thinking it's a bit ridiculous. Here's a pic from the riots. Got bitches, got beers, got a protest, gon' be a fun day.

http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/485809_10151759832535164_602000163_24411438_519827527_n.jpg

[LOLzilla]

I think its great that a large body of Canadians are exercising their right to assembly and expression. I wish more Canadians were doing the same aside from voting once every four years.

[Mibz]

I think it's great that thin women are walking around topless. I wish more were doing the same.

[Zephyr]

Originally posted by LOLzilla
I think its great that a large body of Canadians are exercising their right to assembly and expression. I wish more Canadians were doing the same aside from voting once every four years.

I think I read something yesterday saying there is an emergency law being considered in which protests must be pre-approved by local police? Not sure if that is 100% accurate, but dam that sucks if it's true.


Originally posted by Mibz
I think it's great that thin women are walking around topless. I wish more were doing the same.

:thumbsup: Just like those stupid PETA campaigns that ask women to bare it all. Doesn't matter, saw tits.

[clem24]

Originally posted by Zephyr


I think I read something yesterday saying there is an emergency law being considered in which protests must be pre-approved by local police? Not sure if that is 100% accurate, but dam that sucks if it's true.


Sort of and already in effect. Any gathering over x number of ppl (was it 30 or 50?) they need to notify the police 8 hours ahead and they need a detailed plan of the protest route. I guess places in TO and LA already have these kinds of bylaws in place. They definitely can't pass a bylaw whereby protests must be pre-approved as that will never hold up against the constitution, which trumps all.

[Zephyr]

Originally posted by clem24


Sort of and already in effect. Any gathering over x number of ppl (was it 30 or 50?) they need to notify the police 8 hours ahead and they need a detailed plan of the protest route. I guess places in TO and LA already have these kinds of bylaws in place. They definitely can't pass a bylaw whereby protests must be pre-approved as that will never hold up against the constitution, which trumps all.

Kinda seems like a form of oppression. Regardless if the protesters are right or wrong, trying to force citizens to be quiet is pretty scary. To me this seems like a bigger issue than tuition hikes.

[FixedGear]

I don't think they are forcing the students to be quiet - they just want to stop them from breaking laws and disrupting the rest of society by smoke bombing traing, blocking bridges, access to universities, etc.

It's on thing to express your opinion, but it's another thing to interrupt the lives of everyone else around you.

[Zephyr]

Originally posted by FixedGear
I don't think they are forcing the students to be quiet - they just want to stop them from breaking laws and disrupting the rest of society by smoke bombing traing, blocking bridges, access to universities, etc.

It's on thing to express your opinion, but it's another thing to interrupt the lives of everyone else around you.

I just read another article saying they are trying to impose harsh fines and shut down universities if there are protests

This is the article: http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the_americas/emergency-law-considered-in-quebec-as-thousands-of-students-protest-tuition-122-arrests/2012/05/17/gIQA5ElxVU_story.html

It's pretty brief on what the proposed law is, if someone has a better one please link it.

But doesn't that seem like oppression? Regardless if the students are right or wrong, why isn't the government trying to look at the root of the problem and try to come up with something in which both sides are happy. Instead it just seems like "oh hey, don't do that, if you talk back, I'll make sure you get punished for doing so."

[codetrap]

Originally posted by Zephyr

But doesn't that seem like oppression? Regardless if the students are right or wrong, why isn't the government trying to look at the root of the problem and try to come up with something in which both sides are happy. Instead it just seems like "oh hey, don't do that, if you talk back, I'll make sure you get punished for doing so."
Seems pretty simply to me. Quebec can't afford to continue to pay 80% of the post secondary costs, so they're cutting back on paying. The students are throwing a big hissy fit because their relatively free education is going to cost them a bit more money. There's no way the students will be happy, the lawmakers know that, and so they're shutting them down.

[Zephyr]

Originally posted by codetrap

Seems pretty simply to me. Quebec can't afford to continue to pay 80% of the post secondary costs, so they're cutting back on paying. The students are throwing a big hissy fit because their relatively free education is going to cost them a bit more money. There's no way the students will be happy, the lawmakers know that, and so they're shutting them down.

But doesn't the shutting down part bother you? After reading a little bit more, it seems like the law just requires notification to police of a protest, not approval. But now Bill 78 is requiring approval before protesting.

I just found this:
http://www2.publicationsduquebec.gouv.qc.ca/dynamicSearch/telecharge.php?type=5&file=2012C12A.PDF

Bill 78.

Division 3, article 16-17 - regarding protest route planning and protest legality;
Division 4, article 20 - the provision allowing the government to cut funding to student associations convicted of violating Bill 78;
Dvision 4, articles 22-23 - the assignment of civil liability to students and student associations preventing access to schools;
Division 5, article 26 - criminal liability for individuals violating articles 16-17.

I don't really care about the tuition hike, but the emergency bill being passed to put the fire out seems kinda oppressive.

[codetrap]

Originally posted by Zephyr
But doesn't the shutting down part bother you? After reading a little bit more, it seems like the law just requires notification to police of a protest, not approval. But now Bill 78 is requiring approval before protesting.

I do think people have the right to protest. However I don't think they have the right to interfere with other people going about their lives. The protestors were getting completely out of hand with the destruction of private property, and with preventing students from continuing to go to school. I also don't see them stopping the protests, only making sure that the protestors have informed the police prior to the protest happening. Prior to that, students wearing masks were invading the campuses disrupting classes and assaulting students and teachers. That can't be allowed.


Bill 78 summary
Fines of between $1,000 and $5,000 for any individual who prevents someone from entering an educational institution.

Penalties climb to between $7,000 and $35,000 for a student leader and to between $25,000 and $125,000 for unions or student federations.

Public demonstations involving more than 50 people have to be flagged to authorities eight hours in advance, include itinerary, duration and time at which they are being held.

Police can order the protest move to a different spot.

Offering encouragement for someone to protest at a school, either tacitly or otherwise, is subject to punishment.

[clem24]

They aren't oppressing anything. The students brought this onto themselves by being idiots about it. This law wouldn't have been necessary if students were peaceful. Instead, they smash windows, disrupt classes in session, show boobies, and wear masks to hide their identities (jee wonder why they'd need to do that except to stir up shit).

The only thing I think they should be allowed to is protest peacefully (while showing boobies).

[Zephyr]

Originally posted by codetrap

I do think people have the right to protest. However I don't think they have the right to interfere with other people going about their lives. The protestors were getting completely out of hand with the destruction of private property, and with preventing students from continuing to go to school. I also don't see them stopping the protests, only making sure that the protestors have informed the police prior to the protest happening. Prior to that, students wearing masks were invading the campuses disrupting classes and assaulting students and teachers. That can't be allowed.



If a student damages something (ie set a cop car on fire, breaks windows etc) I think they should be 100% liable for it and should be punished/pay for it. However, that Bill 78 also punishes the student union in which the student is apart of. There's no way for that student union to control all the protesters. Yeah they can issue warnings to ask the protesters to be peaceful, but we all know eventually there will be a few bad eggs.

And requiring approval for protests seems absurd. The government can pretty much say no to every protest from now on, thus there really is no other way to voice your opinion other than vote every 4 years.

[FraserB]

The student unions are the ones who are organizing these "protests" and egging them on. Fine the students, then the union and then go after the union executive. Bar them from post secondary until all jail time is served and fines are paid in full. Maybe when they are trying to repay $10,000 in fines at the only minimum wage job they can find with their HS diploma and criminal record, they will realize it might not have been worth it over a $25/month increase.

[Zephyr]

I do agree that the protesters are being immature and dumb

This is what they sent to the police when they requested a map of their route:

http://i.imgur.com/tH9Kn.jpg

Really immature response.

[dirtsniffer]

^LOL, fuck that's funny. Not saying I agree but :rofl:

[1barA4]

Originally posted by FraserB
The student unions are the ones who are organizing these "protests" and egging them on. Fine the students, then the union and then go after the union executive. Bar them from post secondary until all jail time is served and fines are paid in full. Maybe when they are trying to repay $10,000 in fines at the only minimum wage job they can find with their HS diploma and criminal record, they will realize it might not have been worth it over a $25/month increase.

Pffft, they'd still get off cheaper than a student here :banghead:

[phreezee]

http://www.cbc.ca/strombo/images/quebec-tuition-infographic-full.jpg

[ZenOps]

Edumucation is 'spensive.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/47565202

Its one of the rare things that actually more or less adheres to the "six percent rule", or six percent inflation rate.

US:

"The findings? In 18 years, the average sticker price for a private university could be as much as $130,428 a year (See chart.) The situation isn’t much better if you go the public route. Sending your child to a state university could set you back at least $41,228 a year."

If you are considering having a child now, are wages going to increase by 6% per year for the next 18 years to compensate?

Quebec kids probably have it right, go for free or nothing at all.

[clem24]

Not F1!!!

http://sports.nationalpost.com/2012/05/28/canadian-grand-prix-could-be-next-target-for-montreal-protests/


MONTREAL — Social unrest and an ominous call to action from a student association could hurt Montreal’s most profitable weekend.

From June 8 to 10, more than 300,000 spectators are expected to flock to the Circuit Gilles Villeneuve race track to witness the extremely popular Canadian Grand Prix.

The weekend generates an estimated $100-million in revenues to the city, as tourists soak in the various festivities that accompany the race.

Crescent Street, an important artery in the heart of downtown, is home to a large number of merchants whose bread and butter is the Grand Prix weekend.

Die-hard F1 fans, racing cars and concerts give the street a real carnival atmosphere during the three-day period.

With the race barely two weeks away, there is little end in sight to a student-government conflict that has resulted in more than 2,500 arrests and more than 100 days of protest.

Despite that, the president of the Crescent Street Merchants Association, Steve Siozos, isn’t worried by the targeted disruptions.

”We understand the threat — we’ve already lost a lot of revenue because of the protests — but it wouldn’t make sense to attempt to disrupt business that weekend,” he said.

”First of all, there is always a heavy police presence that weekend. Secondly, there’s no room to move because there are too many people.

”It wouldn’t suit their needs. I’m really hopeful it’s resolved by then.”

According to Siozos, businesses in his association have suffered a 20% decrease in revenue this year, a number he atrributes mainly to the student protests.

How seriously are Montreal officials taking the threat of disruption to the F1 and other summer events such as the city’s popular jazz and comedy festivals?

On Sunday, the Montreal Chamber of Commerce invited various business and political personalities to a meeting to discuss ways to protect not only the F1 race, but also the other events that attract thousands and thousands of tourists to the city.

Montreal Mayor Gerald Tremblay and Quebec Finance Minister Raymond Bachand were among those in attendance.

Downtown merchants aren’t the only ones who could potentially suffer from the any disruptions.

The Montreal Beer Fest, one of the world’s largest gatherings of beer enthusiasts, is also taking place that weekend.

Katia Bouchard, director of communications for the festival, says organizers aren’t worried about the current unrest but that precautions are being taken to ensure a successful event.

”We’ve had talks with the people from Place Bonaventure (where the festival takes place) ahead of the event, like we always do,” she said.

”We discuss security measures and the current student situation came up. We’re not worried, though, because many of the protesters are people who come to our festival on a yearly basis.”

One group encouraging havoc that weekend is the faculty of arts student association of the Universite du Quebec a Montreal. During a general assembly meeting on May 9, it unanimously adopted a resolution to propose a weekend of disruptions.

”The AFEA-UQAM suggests that the C.L.A.S.S.E. (the student federation the faculty belongs to) organize a weekend of disruptions in order to cancel the Formula 1 Grand Prix and its jet-set events of June 8-10 which represent sexist, anti-environmental, elitist and economic values that must be abolished.”

Camille Toffoli, student life coordinator for the faculty, confirmed that various measures will be taken via social media networks to ensure a large participation.

The faculty proposition seems to have gained popularity as of late. A recurring chant during the nightly protests warns Quebec Premier Jean Charest about the Grand Prix weekend.

“Charest! You’re laughing now, but wait and see what happens to your Grand Prix!”

Anarchists such as Jaggi Singh have also thrown their hats into the ring of public discourse.

Singh, a perennial figure in Canadian activism and known for his involvement in social justice causes, announced through his Twitter account on May 23 that ”Rich douchebags are going to be disrupted by night demos,” referring to the Grand Prix weekend.

A security memo issued by the U.S. Consulate in Montreal in April warned American tourists of possible “unforeseen violence,” “vandalism” and “arrests” in Montreal caused by social unrest. It remains unknown whether it persuaded a considerable amount of tourists to avoid Montreal.

John Atkinson, a Montrealer who has tickets to the F1 qualifying session, is optimistic about the weekend.

”I’d be really upset because I don’t attend sporting events unless I’m given tickets,” he said.

”But if it’s cancelled I won’t go riot with those other people because it would make me just as bad as they are.”

[codetrap]

I saw those Quebecois cocks down at the lilac festival yesterday cutting little red squares while sitting on a blanket. I had a real strong urge to stop for a piss on their carpet to show them how I really felt about their protest.

As it was, I just spat on the ground in front of them and continued on my way.

[-relk-]

”The AFEA-UQAM suggests that the C.L.A.S.S.E. (the student federation the faculty belongs to) organize a weekend of disruptions in order to cancel the Formula 1 Grand Prix and its jet-set events of June 8-10 which represent sexist, anti-environmental, elitist and economic values that must be abolished.”

This has absolutley zero relevance to tuition hikes, but lets protest against it anyway!

:banghead: :banghead:

This is starting to get ridiculous...

[clem24]

http://www.montrealgazette.com/business/Quebec+student+protests+students+government+resume+negotiations+after/6695215/story.html

LOL look who they are being supported by:


Joining major student organizations will be the Public Service Alliance of Canada, the Canadian Auto Workers' union and the Canadian Union of Postal Workers.

[Toma]

Still loving this!

[Zephyr]

http://i.imgur.com/9lXQl.jpg

Only way I know this picture isn't in America, the police are not beating the shit out of them already.

[sabad66]

although it's from reddit (typically always biased towards any sort of protests), lots of good thoughts here:

http://www.reddit.com/r/canada/comments/u4prw/when_will_the_rest_of_canada_realize_that_the/

not as black and white as us albertans may think.

[clem24]

Originally posted by sabad66
although it's from reddit (typically always biased towards any sort of protests), lots of good thoughts here:

http://www.reddit.com/r/canada/comments/u4prw/when_will_the_rest_of_canada_realize_that_the/

not as black and white as us albertans may think.

WTF.. Now they're trying to find another excuse for their protest? I dunno, but smashing windows, burning police cars, and yelling at students trying to learn and disrupting classes doesn't really sound like protesting corruption to me. Sounds like the view of 1 person trying to make it sound it's the view of the majority.

[schocker]

Originally posted by clem24


WTF.. Now they're trying to find another excuse for their protest? I dunno, but smashing windows, burning police cars, and yelling at students trying to learn and disrupting classes doesn't really sound like protesting corruption to me. Sounds like the view of 1 person trying to make it sound it's the view of the majority.
:werd:
That is completely different from what is being conveyed by the student protests. Unless they are smashing windows of corrupt individuals and setting fire their vehicles :rofl:

[Toma]

Originally posted by Zephyr
http://i.imgur.com/9lXQl.jpg

Only way I know this picture isn't in America, the police are not beating the shit out of them already.
bahahahaha. baiting them with donuts. Fucking genius :thumbsup: