Just a little more towing power please

[Masked Bandit]

I find myself in need of just a bit more power when towing our trailer. The weight of it falls well within the acceptable limit of the vehicle but it seems short on power when hitting much of a hill. I would like to try a few small things before I go and spend $30,000 on a newer truck.

1. A programmer / tuner (Bullydog, Predator, etc.). I've never owned or used one of these things. I know they can have a dramatic effect on diesel trucks but seem to have SOME impact on a gas motor. My biggest concern is fuel consumption. Not while towing, but while normal daily driving. I don't want to add a bit of towing power but get hit in the fuel constumption the rest of the year. 98% of this truck's life is back & forth to the office and general family duty. So who has had a programmer installed on a regular gas V8 engine? Did it provide any noticable increase in power? What, if anything, did it do to the fuel consumption?

2. CAI & exhaust. On every vehicle I've ever fooled around with it always seems to hurt fuel consumption. Is this something that maybe with the programmer at the same time could keep level or maybe even improve fuel consumption?


I'm sure that someone is going to read this and say "diesel or nothing for towing" and yes, that is true. However A) That's a big financial commitment and B) Spending 18,000 / 20,000 KM a year driving back & forth to the office and running to Costco is no life for a diesel.

TIA

[ercchry]

take the lead out of your foot! :rofl:

tuner, cai, exhaust makes your engine more efficient, which in return gives you more usable power which SHOULD give you better fuel consumption... if you keep your foot out of it

[Masked Bandit]

Originally posted by ercchry
take the lead out of your foot! :rofl:

tuner, cai, exhaust makes your engine more efficient, which in return gives you more usable power which SHOULD give you better fuel consumption... if you keep your foot out of it

I know that's the normal cause of the post-modification decline in fuel consumption but that's honestly not the case with me. Two trucks and a bike that have been messed up have me gun shy.

I'm not worried about the fuel when towing, that's going to be a gong show no matter what. I just don't want to be the guy doing 50 km up a hill with the foot on the floor leaving bits of tranny all over the road.

[ercchry]

i think your best bet is to reprogram your shift points. that shouldnt affect cruising mpg but when you are hard on the gas it should help with getting up those hills

[GOnSHO]

a Tuner will wake up your truck dramatically...

after driving my truck and my buddies with a Diablo Predator tuner.. im going to go spend the 300 on the tuner!! its a huge difference...

The CAI and exhaust will help when the tuner is on, but without the tuner you will very little noticeable difference

[KRyn]

http://chevyavalanchefanclub.com/cafcna/index.php/board,108.0.html

Get reading!

[jonnycat]

I read that avalanches can vary in tow ratings from 5400lbs to 8100lbs. :eek:

My first guess though is if you are bogging down to 50kms on any hill, it is either because your truck isn't downshifting properly or because it is simply too heavy.

[Masked Bandit]

Originally posted by jonnycat
I read that avalanches can vary in tow ratings from 5400lbs to 8100lbs. :eek:

My first guess though is if you are bogging down to 50kms on any hill, it is either because your truck isn't downshifting properly or because it is simply too heavy.

It depends which rearend is in it. I've got the tow package (4.10 gears), tow / haul mode and HD tranny cooler.

Shift points seem to be quite good. That's all the tow / haul mode really is, it holds the shift points to higher in the RPM range to maximize the usable power that's already there. I'm good for the 8000 lbs (on a flat road...lol). I just want to be more comfortable in the mountains.

[Masked Bandit]

Originally posted by KRyn
http://chevyavalanchefanclub.com/cafcna/index.php/board,108.0.html

Get reading!


I'm actually a member on there and I've been reading that section quite a bit over the last couple of days, that's where I got the idea from. You have to take what's on that board with a grain of salt though because:

A) It's Chevy fanboys
B) It's Amuricans (fuk ya!) for the most part
C) Our altitute does shitty things to engine performance. Going into the mountains sure isn't going to make it any better!
D) I was hoping to get a referral to a local shop that someone on here had personal experience with.

[GOnSHO]

Originally posted by Masked Bandit



I'm actually a member on there and I've been reading that section quite a bit over the last couple of days, that's where I got the idea from. You have to take what's on that board with a grain of salt though because:

A) It's Chevy fanboys
B) It's Amuricans (fuk ya!) for the most part
C) Our altitute does shitty things to engine performance. Going into the mountains sure isn't going to make it any better!
D) I was hoping to get a referral to a local shop that someone on here had personal experience with.

Mopac sells a good assortment of tuners, where ill be buying my Diablo from.. as for CAI and exhaust, you can probably order from them, if its not already in stock..

[jonnycat]

When you hit a hill, what gear are you typically in?

[Masked Bandit]

Originally posted by jonnycat
When you hit a hill, what gear are you typically in?

3rd (of four).

I should clarify. On the little hills that are around Calgary the truck will stay up to 95 KPH - 100 KPH without too much issue. But heading West I suspect would be ugly.

[jonnycat]

If you can stay at 95kms/hour with a loaded trailer up the hill just south of calgary, you'll be fine anywhere.

[corsvette]

Originally posted by Masked Bandit


3rd (of four).

I should clarify. On the little hills that are around Calgary the truck will stay up to 95 KPH - 100 KPH without too much issue. But heading West I suspect would be ugly.

You can try a few bolt on and programmer, when we had the 5.3 Yukon it was a bit taxed on hills too. I had a magnaflow exhaust and cai but no programmer, it just did not like going up hill fast. I have the Denali with the 6l engine now and its much more powerful without any worse fuel economy than our 5.3 got.

A Diesel would be best, even a nice clean used one can be had for a good price. Any gas truck will struggle towing uphill, if you go gas in a new truck go with the 6.2's from GM or Ford.

[Masked Bandit]

Originally posted by corsvette


You can try a few bolt on and programmer, when we had the 5.3 Yukon it was a bit taxed on hills too. I had a magnaflow exhaust and cai but no programmer, it just did not like going up hill fast. I have the Denali with the 6l engine now and its much more powerful without any worse fuel economy than our 5.3 got.

A Diesel would be best, even a nice clean used one can be had for a good price. Any gas truck will struggle towing uphill, if you go gas in a new truck go with the 6.2's from GM or Ford.

On the Sierra Denali (AWD), isn't the tow rating lower than that of a standard truck due to the AWD?

I've been looking at a newer GM 6.2 in a Sierra / Silverado but that means spending another $20,000 over what I'll get for my truck. I'm just trying to see if I can avoid doing that.

Although a new truck sure would be nice........

I knew the diesel comment would have to come out at some point. The extra maintenance is hard to justify considering it will mostly be driven back & forth to the office. That seems like cruel & unusual punishment for a diesel that's meant to work.

[HuMz]

I know alot of the Frontier guys who do alot of towing buy a tuner(bullydog seems to be popular) to remove the WOT restriction...not sure id that will apply to your avalanche though.

[Masked Bandit]

Is the WOT restriction similar to the TM (torque management) stuff that all the GM guys piss & whine about? If so I don't think I would be removing that function as I'm not looking to smoke tires all over the place.

[ramminghard]

Originally posted by Masked Bandit


On the Sierra Denali (AWD), isn't the tow rating lower than that of a standard truck due to the AWD?

I've been looking at a newer GM 6.2 in a Sierra / Silverado but that means spending another $20,000 over what I'll get for my truck. I'm just trying to see if I can avoid doing that.

Although a new truck sure would be nice........

I knew the diesel comment would have to come out at some point. The extra maintenance is hard to justify considering it will mostly be driven back & forth to the office. That seems like cruel & unusual punishment for a diesel that's meant to work.
I am pretty sure my 09 Sierra Denali can tow 9,400. I have not towed with it but with the amount of power the 6.2L has and the 6spd trans I cannot imagine towing to be any issue at all.

[corsvette]

^^^ The Denali is around 9000#, a friend tows his 28ft 5th wheel with his Denali and never complains about lack of power.

Bandit- You're right about the max tow cap on the Denali, Its a bit lower (couple hundred lbs) because of the AWD.

[lauphman]

Don't programmers have other maps available, one for more power and one for better fuel economy? When it's time to tow hook it up and go for power and when you come back put it on economy?

[n1zm0]

forced induction an option? :D

[Masked Bandit]

Originally posted by n1zm0
forced induction an option? :D

That's a lot of money to throw into a 7 year old truck. I'd be better served buy just buying a different truck me thinks.

[78si]

How many speeds is your tranny? My tundra tows really well with the 6 speed. Its always in the right gear.

[Masked Bandit]

Originally posted by 78si
How many speeds is your tranny? My tundra tows really well with the 6 speed. Its always in the right gear.

It's a four speed. GM didn't go to six speed in a half ton until 2009. Three quarter ton got the six speed in either 2005 or 2006, possibly earlier.

[Alak]

Superchips tuner really woke up my truck bill, but I got that fancy 5.3L. When I was doing reading about increasing the engines ability to tow better, Camshaft was mentioned many times. An exhaust, CAI, and chip will make a considerable difference in towing power, but a cam will really wake it up. But thats alot of work. A new truck could be an option at that point (as thats what Im looking at only Im looking at a diesel). The problem is mileage on gas engines. Yah the EPA says it gets a fair amount, but in reality it gets, not so good. People report less than 10MPG towing, as Im sure you know. In terms of a diesel, yah its not good to just boot around town, but thats because of the emmissions equipment. If you consider eliminating the equipment and getting a tuner, you can have all the towing power you need, and all the mileage to spare. I drove a dodge on the weekend that recorded over 34MPG highway and 22-24MPG in the city. Pretty good for a 1 ton crew cab.

By comparison my 5.3L gets about 18-20MPG highway and 16ish city, thats driving very conservatively.

Its alot to consider. But them new Duramax/Allisons are sure nice......

[Supa Dexta]

What engine do you have?

I have a 6.0/6spd/4.10 I've had 24k behind my truck at times. As with any gas engine keep the revs to her.

http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/3072/bales1.jpg

[Masked Bandit]

Originally posted by Supa Dexta
What engine do you have?

I have a 6.0/6spd/4.10 I've had 24k behind my truck at times. As with any gas engine keep the revs to her.

http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/3072/bales1.jpg

lol...I'm guessing you're not pulling that out on the highway! :D

It's the 5.3 L w/ 4.10 / 4 speed. Classic GM 1/2 ton powertrain in those years.

I think I'm going to give the tuner / programmer a chance before I spend big money on a new truck.

[Supa Dexta]

Not highways, but 80kmh secondaries. Towed 15k from AB to NS one time also, just ran the scales.. lol

[coop3rr]

If youre ever in the market for a half ton with good towing power, i have the new 2012 ecoboost f150, it hauls 8000lbs No problem. hills included. i just pulled 8900lbs on the long weekend from calgary - Jaffrey BC, just shy of 500km to a tank towing, according to my onboard l/100km i was getting 17.8-18.5 AVG

[Anomaly]

Originally posted by Masked Bandit
Is the WOT restriction similar to the TM (torque management) stuff that all the GM guys piss & whine about? If so I don't think I would be removing that function as I'm not looking to smoke tires all over the place.

As far as the torque management goes, I used the Diablo to remove it from my previous 5.3 truck. Since the torque management pulls timing around shift points, you should see a decent improvement.

[Masked Bandit]

Originally posted by coop3rr
If youre ever in the market for a half ton with good towing power, i have the new 2012 ecoboost f150, it hauls 8000lbs No problem. hills included. i just pulled 8900lbs on the long weekend from calgary - Jaffrey BC, just shy of 500km to a tank towing, according to my onboard l/100km i was getting 17.8-18.5 AVG

That's crazy good milage while towing with a gasser. I wouldn't expect to see that unless I was running a diesel. What do you get for L / 100 KM normal driving?

[jonnycat]

Originally posted by Masked Bandit


That's crazy good milage while towing with a gasser. I wouldn't expect to see that unless I was running a diesel. What do you get for L / 100 KM normal driving?

No kidding I just averaged 35.2L/100kms towing to Crowsnest and back (6.7MPG)

The ecoboosts are monsters though. I've heard nothing but bragging around here at work where a few have them

[corsvette]

Originally posted by jonnycat


No kidding I just averaged 35.2L/100kms towing to Crowsnest and back (6.7MPG)

The ecoboosts are monsters though. I've heard nothing but bragging around here at work where a few have them

About the only thing good I've heard about the f150 |Ecoboost is awesome power when empty, other than that only heard about poor fuel economy both empty and towing and tranny issues.

[masoncgy]

How heavy is your trailer?

I used to pull our 20' Holidaire TT with my old 2003 Avalanche 5.3L 4 spd and never noticed any sort of towing challenges with it, other than the fact that pulling weight up a slope does feel like the truck is overwhelmed a bit.... but it never actually had problems keeping a reasonable speed. That trailer was around 5500 lb fully loaded.

Is this your first time pulling a TT by chance?

Just wait until you get a strong head wind.... lol. I remember pulling down the #2 from Red Deer during such and getting about 5 mpg in the process.

[Masked Bandit]

Originally posted by masoncgy
How heavy is your trailer?

I used to pull our 20' Holidaire TT with my old 2003 Avalanche 5.3L 4 spd and never noticed any sort of towing challenges with it, other than the fact that pulling weight up a slope does feel like the truck is overwhelmed a bit.... but it never actually had problems keeping a reasonable speed. That trailer was around 5500 lb fully loaded.

Is this your first time pulling a TT by chance?

Just wait until you get a strong head wind.... lol. I remember pulling down the #2 from Red Deer during such and getting about 5 mpg in the process.

The trailer is a 28' bumper pull, about 5500 lbs empty, somewhere around 7300 lbs loaded. It's a bigger trailer than I was planning on buying but it was too good of a deal to pass up.

[Masked Bandit]

Originally posted by corsvette


About the only thing good I've heard about the f150 |Ecoboost is awesome power when empty, other than that only heard about poor fuel economy both empty and towing and tranny issues.

Really? That seems to be exactly opposite from what coop3rr was saying. Someone has their wires crossed somewhere.

Has anyone every heard of a dealership letting you hook up a trailer on a test drive? I would be some kind of pissed if I paid $45,000 for a new truck that didn't pull much better than my current one. I think I would want to try that first.

[510-Trevor]

One thing to consider if you go the tuner route is that most of the tunes will require premium fuel and to get the most out of them you need to add the CAI, headers, cat forward and cat back. Add all that up with a summer of towing and your extra costs might get you into a better truck.

[Alak]

The new Ecoboost Fords are amazing towing machines compared to other half tons. Couple guys here have them, including my boss and they love them for towing (compared to their old half tons).

If your not a chevy guy at heart, it might be worth looking into one. But beware, loaded F-150's are pretty up there in price. When I compared gas to diesel, if you catch a sale they are very competitively priced to each other.

[coop3rr]

Normal driving in the city is about 13.2l/100km. Highway when I went to banff minus trailer was 12.4

[coop3rr]

Originally posted by corsvette


About the only thing good I've heard about the f150 |Ecoboost is awesome power when empty, other than that only heard about poor fuel economy both empty and towing and tranny issues.




I had absolute shit fuel economy for the first 5000km, and the tranny issues are usually due to people not realizing thy the transmissions are adaptive to driving style. If for a week you drive it nice then all of a sudden start beating the shit out of it the trannywill shift like a bag of shit. If you continually change your driving style it will stress the transmission out. This problems.


I discovered this online, and when I did I simply tried to keep my foot out of it for a week and everything wentback to normal.

Fuel mileage on my fx4 is fantastic. I have zero complaints. Going from a Subaru that averaged 300km/tank for 65$ to 800 ish for 100$, can't complain with the practicality and the fuel mileage.

[jonnycat]

Originally posted by Masked Bandit


Has anyone every heard of a dealership letting you hook up a trailer on a test drive? I would be some kind of pissed if I paid $45,000 for a new truck that didn't pull much better than my current one. I think I would want to try that first.

First try to get the truck for the day, then go home and hook up your trailer. If you cant get it alone and they won't let you try towing, I'd try and rent one for the week, as long as you can find the right engine / rear end combo.

[GOnSHO]

meh, pulled pretty much the same trailer that he has with my 09 Ram 1500 and had NO issues what so ever. I get 12.3-12.5L/100Km on the highway cruising at 120/130ish without trailer... 15-16L/100Km cruising at 110ish with the trailer..

[Alak]

Originally posted by jonnycat


First try to get the truck for the day, then go home and hook up your trailer. If you cant get it alone and they won't let you try towing, I'd try and rent one for the week, as long as you can find the right engine / rear end combo.

Just be sure if you like it, dont buy that specific truck. Your not supposed to tow for the first 8000k or something lol.