A cheap DIY patio...

[dflamzer]

want to get some opinions on this. I personally like the idea as it's going to save me a few thousand dollars in the long run. wife isn't totally sold on it.

We had some quotes on a 12x12 patio being poured with colored stamped concrete. The price is crazy in my opinion. Most of the quotes were right around the $3,000-$4,000 mark.

We happened to see these wonderful composite decking tiles at lowe's and the idea got me thinking of simply building a small deck type patio where the cost would be under $1,000 with all supplies considered.

I was thinking of putting in 9 footings using 6" tubes with concrete and then running 4x4 posts to create three 12' beams. I'd then put 2x4x12 joists on top of the 4x4 beams spaced 12" apart and then finish it off with pressure treated plywood on top. I'd then put the composite deck tiles on top for a nice clean finish.

Supplies all in would be right around $800-$900.

Can you really think of any negatives as to doing it this way as opposed to a concrete slab? I would think durability wise it would be good maybe even better as we wouldn't nee to worry about anything cracking. The only issue I could think of is that the 4x4 main beams would only be 1-2" max off the ground.

Input?

[Kloubek]

I am not a construction guru by any stretch of the imagination, but if I was to build this I would consider the deck piers you can purchase at any hardware store. You could set 4X4 posts in them and then run that up to your beam, or just lay the beam down on the piers. (If the ground is perfectly flat only). For your beam I wonder if the 4X4's are sufficient, and would probably consider using doubled up 2X8's.

[dflamzer]

That's the main issue she is having is will it be low enough to look like a patio.

That is why I really wanted to use 4x4's for the main beams. I would think a 4x4 beam would be strong enough. Overall surface area would indicate they are equal to a 2x8.

The 2x4x12's are where I start to have some questions. I would think if I'm putting in 9 footings and having them spaced every 12" it may be ok to not see any significant bow.

The spacing between the footings is 37" on each side, so roughly 3 feet span. I would assume a 2x4 would be ok for that???

It's the only way I can envision this not being too high off the ground. I like the way the composite deck tiles look. Need to sell the idea on my wife though as she still thinks this is going to look like a small deck that's like a foot off or maybe even more off the ground.

I'd be running the 4x4 beams straight across so there would basically be no posts at all. The 4x4x12 would be connected to 3 footings with the 2x4 running on top as a joist.

We found a place that has the deck tiles for 470 dollars for all we'd need.

I'm not really a huge fan of the floating deck blocks myself. Always preferred to dig footings 4 feet deep. Not sure why but it always seemed way more permanent.

[blitz]

Don't use 4x4 as beams, even stacked, and don't use 2x4 as joists.

In your case the smallest I would consider would be two 2x8's laminated as beams and 2x6 joists. Don't use deck piers either, they suck.

[dflamzer]

I'm using 6" footings for sure. I already have the 9 holes dug for it. the tubes are 48" under ground.

Why would you personally say two laminated 2x8's as opposed to the 4x4? According to code they say I could run a 2x6 beam and 2x6 joist. I would think if there is just 3 feet of space between each footing it would allow for a little leeway as opposed to using 2x8....

wife just wants an outdoor patio set. Basically plastic wicker furniture.

[BrknFngrs]

I recognize that you've already dug a few holes, but did you consider interlock? Would give you the ground level patio the wife is shooting for and might even come in cheaper than the deck.

[CanmoreOrLess]

Can't the Lowes employees help you out with advice? When I need something like this I head to Home Depot and speak to a qualified employee, never been easier. Had a plumbing situation, replaced a few parts and the employee was a qualified plumber, all too easy.

You know you will never win if your wife is not onboard, come one frost and anything happens she will be saying the mantra...."I told you so....I told you so".

Love your determination and willingness to learn as you go, for once I would like to hear "I told you so" go the other way. Just for once. I did a very detailed (small) wood deck a few years back, took four months and was all ready for the first snowstorm. Never heard the end of that one, "the lost summer".

Interlock is a good idea as above.

[dflamzer]

Yeah I've been going off the building code that I see plus the deck building plans available at lowe's.

It does sound as though using 2x4's is doable as the span isn't overly long. That's the reason I wanted to use 9 footings which is extreme overkill for a 12x12 area lol.

Wife doesn't want brick unfortunately. I'd go that way if I could.

[ExtraSlow]

I've got some of those composite tiles down over concrete, I like the look.

If I was putting this on a wooden deck, I wouldn't use plywood as a subfloor, I'd use something that would drain, like 2x4's with small gaps. Even pressure treated plywood isn't really supposed to have pooled water on it, and trust me, it will.

[CD007]

Why not get patio bricks and lay it yourself?

[dflamzer]

Nah plywood is all good. You just need to ensure there is a 1/4" slope going away from the house. Not to mention the entire thing will be covered with a gazebo the entire time so moisture on the top really isn't the concern I have.

For me it's really the sub structure I was more worried with. I think the idea would be pretty hot overall and saving 3k is enough to buy a massive king shit BBQ.

[blitz]

Do you want this to last a decent amount of time? 4x4 and 2x4's will flex right off the bat and warp over time. At a very minimum do the 2x6 to bring you to up to code.

I would also not do pressure treated plywood. Being this close to the ground, it will trap moister underneath (think of tent with moisture in it on a hot day). It would be much better to use deck boards and cover those with the composite deck tiles.

[dflamzer]

Code actually states the 2x4's are ok in this case due to the fac t the span is so little and it's less than 12" off the ground. The 4x4 is where I do have some reservations as the 2x6's may be the better solution.

I never did thing about the moisture lock though. Definitely a good point to consider.

Maximum span for a 2x4 is 6'6". I'm spanning each one 3'4".

[sxtasy]

Wood will rot eventually, especially being so close to the ground. Since you are already pouring concrete I would suggest pouring an exposed concrete pad, very easy to do and cheap. Based on a 12x12x4" pad, that is only 1.2 meters, plus your piles you will probably be at around 4-$500 for concrete. Most trucks have a 2-3 meter minimum anyways. Add $150 for forming materials and rebar and you have a deck better than most contractors will build for you.

Exposed is really easy to do, no finishing skills required, just screte and hit with a pressure washer after initial setup. Easier and cheaper imo

[nonofyobiz]

I think paving stones are the way to go. I think u could do it for around a grand?

For those who have done a paving stone patio, ....is it hard to do? Ive been wanting to do one for a few years now. Im looking at prob 12' x 15' ish plus a side walk to the front. It jusr seems like a ton of labour getting all that grass out of there and excavating. Thoughts?

[codetrap]

I did a floating deck attached to the house. Used 2x8 as the sub structure, then skinned it with 1x6 deck boards. All pressure treated. Cost me about $900 in materials.

[bspot]

Your wood will rot for sure. Rebuild that thing again in 5 or 10 years and I bet you are getting close to the total you would have spent pouring it.

[Ntense_SpecV]

Originally posted by nonofyobiz
I think paving stones are the way to go. I think u could do it for around a grand?

For those who have done a paving stone patio, ....is it hard to do? Ive been wanting to do one for a few years now. Im looking at prob 12' x 15' ish plus a side walk to the front. It jusr seems like a ton of labour getting all that grass out of there and excavating. Thoughts?

You can rent a grass/sod cutter that will slice approx. 2" down and cut the grass into strips. You end up taking out what you would lay down when first installing sod.
I am just starting to excavate for my patio but I'm doing a raised patio with allan block walls around and essentially filling in the middle with paving stones as my yard slopes too much to just put the paving stones down. Most everything outside is a lot of labour, but it sure is a lot cheaper than hiring a landscaper to do it all.

[codetrap]

Originally posted by bspot
Your wood will rot for sure. Rebuild that thing again in 5 or 10 years and I bet you are getting close to the total you would have spent pouring it. Is this really an issue? So in 10 years he'll have to look at rebuilding his deck, that cost is $1000 vs $3000+ for a concrete pour, that in 10 years he'll probably have to have re-poured or fixed.

[dflamzer]

Ya I'm not doing concrete. I also think the 10 years is being a little agressive as pressure treated wood even in crazy exposed situation has a better life span than that.

Concrete will crack over time and the last patio we had we saw issues with it's surface chipping and was nothing but a small nightmare.

I'd rather do a pressure treated base with the composite top.

AND FOR THE RECORD.

It wouldn't be $1,000 to re-do. Not even close to it. The supplies to build the deck area itself are only $300. The vast majority of the expense is in the composite tiles.

[sxtasy]

Good thread! You ask for opinions but you are set on what you are going to do anyways. Good luck with your 2x4 deck, let us know what the wife thinks and be sure to post pics!

[dflamzer]

No I'm set in my mind that concrete is not the way I want to go with it at all. I still have decided if I want to do 2x6 or 2x4 to be honest.

[Ntense_SpecV]

Originally posted by dflamzer
No I'm set in my mind that concrete is not the way I want to go with it at all. I still have decided if I want to do 2x6 or 2x4 to be honest.

I would personally use 2X6's...but I'm sure you can get away with 2X4's. They just don't have the strength I would feel comfortable using as deck framing material. Plus who wants to build a brandnew deck only to have it flex and be bouncy.

[topher91]

Subscribed!

Doing the same thing next week... didn't realize there is code to go by. Was gonna build about a 16x16 lower level to my existing deck which stands about 3ft off the ground.

Going with a floating deck for the lower part though, have the blocks sitting gravel, or something like it for drainage.

Where can I find these building codes?

OH and when do I have to get a permit?

[dflamzer]

City of Calgary should have them for you. It tells you what span you are allowed for what size of wood and spacing of footings.

Not a huge fan of deck blocks though. Especially for a patio where the amount of weight isn't really significant.

[gogreen]

Originally posted by nonofyobiz
I think paving stones are the way to go. I think u could do it for around a grand?

For those who have done a paving stone patio, ....is it hard to do? Ive been wanting to do one for a few years now. Im looking at prob 12' x 15' ish plus a side walk to the front. It jusr seems like a ton of labour getting all that grass out of there and excavating. Thoughts?

It's not overly technical, but it is very time-consuming. In addition to the removal of any sod (the sod cutter that Ntense_SpecV mentioned is a good idea), you have to dig down 4 to 6 inches (and haul out the soil), lay down some road crush (sand/gravel mix), tamp it down solid, lay down a layer of sand and level it, then set up some strings as guides for placing your pavers. Placing the pavers is time-consuming in itself and it can take some work to get them perfectly flush and straight. When it's all done you throw some more sand on top and run the tamping machine over top again to work the grains into the gaps between the pavers.

However, if you do a thorough job on the prep it will look good and won't take much if any maintenance. The advantage of pavers is that when (not if) the ground heaves the bricks will move independently, unlike a solid concrete slab that is prone to cracking.

[barmanjay]

Back to concrete,...

Has this crossed your mind?

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-dCLNqv5fmAE/ThubDgdYDbI/AAAAAAAAAsE/zj4kf-b2nUw/s1600/2011-05-21%2B19.12.21.jpg

http://www.lowes.com/images/LCI/Planning/HowTos/walk_maker.jpg

http://images.quickblogcast.com/0/2/6/2/0/310019-302620/concretestart.jpg?a=97