Top Gear reviews BRZ/FRS/GT86 - does Clarkson hate it?

[Khyron]

I think not.

http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/7598/speedweek1.jpg

http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/4555/speedweek2.jpg

http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/4739/speedweek3.jpg

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/6681/speedweek4.jpg

http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/7208/speedweek5.jpg

http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/1483/speedweek6.jpg

I love love love mine. :D:thumbup:

Edit: Docs for the resolution-ly challenged:

https://docs.google.com/folder/d/0ByYi9u-PA7SJQjdfazdhOFAwVnc/edit?pli=1

[MGCM]

U should take me for a ride sometime lol

[Khyron]

Haha just got back from doing bad things in the industrial park. :)

[MGCM]

By "industrial park" do u mean just off country hills blvd and deerfoot? Giant smooth paved empty lot up there.....opps did i say that out loud.....

[LilDrunkenSmurf]

Originally posted by Khyron
Haha just got back from doing bad things in the industrial park. :)

I'd love to go for a ride in it. If I could afford it, I'd trade my STi in for a BRZ in a heartbeat.

[superlative]

Well that was obvious! (GT86 wins its class) The other three cars were FWD.

RWD > FWD all the time.

[superlative]

Originally posted by LilDrunkenSmurf


I'd love to go for a ride in it. If I could afford it, I'd trade my STi in for a BRZ in a heartbeat.

?? Why?

An STI would out-accelerate and out-handle a BRZ.

[Cos]

.

[bourge73]

Drive the Airport detour road off Barlow pretty fun early am or late pm...

[LilDrunkenSmurf]

Originally posted by superlative


?? Why?

An STI would out-accelerate and out-handle a BRZ.

Which I use all the time on the street. :rolleyes:

I bet you the BRZ will out handle my STi, and it'll be more fun as well.

[Khyron]

Originally posted by superlative
Well that was obvious! (GT86 wins its class) The other three cars were FWD.

RWD > FWD all the time.

Re-read the last page. It was a 24 car shootout.

Guy on the GT86 forum has a tuned EvoX as well. The X is faster but he's driving the 86 more.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[Khyron]

700/year - my Santa is 500/year, both are on the policy as drive-to-work not just leisure. I want to say it's 200 bucks more than the 02 Jetta?

But I'm old and married - I bet a 20 year old might find it a lot higher than a comparable Civic. If not right away, next year after more history is figured.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[heavyD]

Yawn. Wake me when the car has more power than a Civic and can lap faster than a V6 Mustang.

[LilDrunkenSmurf]

Originally posted by heavyD
Yawn. Wake me when the car has more power than a Civic and can lap faster than a V6 Mustang.

Except that's not the intention of the car. It's meant to be.. wait for it... FUN! It's a cheap, fun, RWD car. It's not a race car at all. They even picked shitty tires so it would break loose easier.

V6 mustang is 210HP and 3400lbs
BRZ is 200HP and 2600lbs.

Which one do you think would have a faster lap time?

[mucat]

Originally posted by LilDrunkenSmurf


Except that's not the intention of the car. It's meant to be.. wait for it... FUN! It's a cheap, fun, RWD car. It's not a race car at all. They even picked shitty tires so it would break loose easier.

V6 mustang is 210HP and 3400lbs
BRZ is 200HP and 2600lbs.

Which one do you think would have a faster lap time?

Horse theft.

[Mista Bob]

Originally posted by LilDrunkenSmurf


Except that's not the intention of the car. It's meant to be.. wait for it... FUN! It's a cheap, fun, RWD car. It's not a race car at all. They even picked shitty tires so it would break loose easier.

V6 mustang is 210HP and 3400lbs
BRZ is 200HP and 2600lbs.

Which one do you think would have a faster lap time?

While I think the FRS would be a great car and wouldn't mind one myself....
Jeez, if you are going to do a comparison at least compare new to new.

V6 Mustang has 305 HP and close to twice the torque available at a much lower rpm. Also weighs about 3500lbs.
And with the handling packages that are available will more than likely beat the FRS around most tracks time wise.
It's also cheaper.

Also you should compare curb weight vs curb weight. 3500 is the V6 Mustangs curb weight, 2758 is the FRS's.

[Khyron]

They are within spitting distance of each other - fr-s gains quite a bit with proper extreme tires like the v6 gets.

Of course, not the point - or do you really think the 8 magazine reviewers, with mp5, m5, 911, exige, etc were actually saying "If only we had a v6 mustang, it would have won this comparison"? Again, I think not.

[95teetee]

Originally posted by Khyron
do you really think the 8 magazine reviewers, with mp5, m5, 911, exige, etc were actually saying "If only we had a v6 mustang, it would have won this comparison"? Again, I think not. of course not- like every other magazine reviewer, they were saying "if someone else had paid us more, they would have won this comparison".

[heavyD]

Originally posted by LilDrunkenSmurf


Except that's not the intention of the car. It's meant to be.. wait for it... FUN! It's a cheap, fun, RWD car. It's not a race car at all. They even picked shitty tires so it would break loose easier.

I fully realize the car's intentions but really it's a Miata coupe for all intents and purposes. The Miata has been offering a small, fun, cheap RWD car for decades. Am I surprised that a sub-3000 lb RWD car is fun to drive? Of course not. Do I really care though considering it's really slow in this day and age where Ralliarts, WRX, Mustang V6, MS3's etc are all ripping off 0-60 times near 5 seconds. Not really. Speed isn't everything but it's a very important part of the equation for most people.

[A3GTiVR6SC]

Well said^

[r3ccOs]

Originally posted by heavyD


I fully realize the car's intentions but really it's a Miata coupe for all intents and purposes. The Miata has been offering a small, fun, cheap RWD car for decades. Am I surprised that a sub-3000 lb RWD car is fun to drive? Of course not. Do I really care though considering it's really slow in this day and age where Ralliarts, WRX, Mustang V6, MS3's etc are all ripping off 0-60 times near 5 seconds. Not really. Speed isn't everything but it's a very important part of the equation for most people.

I personally think that the 135 (even w/o M package) is the grownup version of this vehicle... but have they done a comparison?

[gpomp]

Originally posted by heavyD
Yawn. Wake me when the car has more power than a Civic and can lap faster than a V6 Mustang. :werd: this car doesn't have enough power. plain and simple

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

Originally posted by r3ccOs


I personally think that the 135 (even w/o M package) is the grownup version of this vehicle... but have they done a comparison?

Interesting you say that, at Auto X today there was a BR-Z and I was also there in the 135i, I got a comment about how the BR-Z and 135i looked fairly similarly composed on course although my car had a lot more problems putting it's power down if you drive it right it does seem like a kind of grownup BR-Z or FR-S.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[superlative]

Originally posted by LilDrunkenSmurf


Except that's not the intention of the car. It's meant to be.. wait for it... FUN! It's a cheap, fun, RWD car. It's not a race car at all. They even picked shitty tires so it would break loose easier.

V6 mustang is 210HP and 3400lbs
BRZ is 200HP and 2600lbs.

Which one do you think would have a faster lap time?

Are you still living in 2009? V6 Mustang has over 300hp. The humble V6 Mustang (2011 MY) also beat the BRZ's bigger brother - the WRX STI around VIR (google "Lightning Lap"), so we don't even need to think what has the faster lap time, we know already.

[LilDrunkenSmurf]

Originally posted by superlative


Are you still living in 2009? V6 Mustang has over 300hp. The humble V6 Mustang (2011 MY) also beat the BRZ's bigger brother - the WRX STI around VIR (google "Lightning Lap"), so we don't even need to think what has the faster lap time, we know already.

The STi is not the big brother of the BRZ in any way shape or form. Same manufacturer, and that's about it. Completely different chassis, different needs, different markets.

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak


how did the RAW times compare between the two?

No timing on the Revwerks day, I think the BR-Z with the same tires as me would murder me though, I can't for the life of my put power down.

[rage2]

There was no timing at the AutoX.

I was there till around 1pm and watched both cars run. The driver of the 135 looked to be a more experienced driver, so even with timing, you couldn't really compare the cars. The BR-Z was taking it a lot easier while the 135 was going balls out.

One thing I did note on the BR-Z was that it didn't look to have as much understeer as everyone else. It looked rather neutral when approaching the limit.

[superlative]

Originally posted by LilDrunkenSmurf


Which I use all the time on the street. :rolleyes:

I bet you the BRZ will out handle my STi, and it'll be more fun as well.

Why do people go on about handling all the time? Almost all modern performance cars handle so well that these "super-handlers" are useless on the streets. I was coming back from Golden going 170-200km/h in some twisty sections on highway 1 and I felt nothing. There was no way I was going to feel ANY excitement going around a corner that some of you handling-obsessed people go on about, unless I was on a track.

Raw power on the other hand, can be enjoyed on the street.

On the track, I get the advantages of handling; but on the street where 99% of BRZs will be used, all that extra handling cannot be enjoyed. At least with an STI, it will be entertaining all year round.

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

Originally posted by rage2
There was no timing at the AutoX.

I was there till around 1pm and watched both cars run. The driver of the 135 looked to be a more experienced driver, so even with timing, you couldn't really compare the cars. The BR-Z was taking it a lot easier while the 135 was going balls out.

One thing I did note on the BR-Z was that it didn't look to have as much understeer as everyone else. It looked rather neutral when approaching the limit.

I wouldnt say I was going balls out but I was going decently, tires are expensive and my main goal yesterday was to be smoother with less understeer than in June. I really like the track yesterday though. It would have been fun to trade with the gentleman in the BR-Z for a run to compare but ive only met him once before at a meet back in June so I doubt he would agree to that.

[Khyron]

Originally posted by superlative


Why do people go on about handling all the time? Almost all modern performance cars handle so well that these "super-handlers" are useless on the streets. I was coming back from Golden going 170-200km/h in some twisty sections on highway 1 and I felt nothing. There was no way I was going to feel ANY excitement going around a corner that some of you handling-obsessed people go on about, unless I was on a track.

Raw power on the other hand, can be enjoyed on the street.

On the track, I get the advantages of handling; but on the street where 99% of BRZs will be used, all that extra handling cannot be enjoyed. At least with an STI, it will be entertaining all year round.

You've got it totally backwards. The whole point of the skinny 215 tires and the high reving motor is that you can break it loose at legal speeds on an off-ramp, you get the carving feeling without risking a suspension or court date. A 997 turbo you get about 3 seconds of WOOSH before you're either backing off or risking jail.

If you don't want all that, slap on 245 star specs and have grip grip grip instead.

And I guarantee a BRZ/FR-S is going to be boat-loads more fun this winter than a WRX.
:devil:

A lot of modern cars you can't even fully disable the ESP/Stability/TC/dick-holder/etc anymore. Bleh.

I guess another way to put it is do you pick the slower manual transmission or the magic DSG that does everything for you and let's you shift faster than any human? If you're getting paid to win then the choice is obvious, but for sheer fun?...

[Anomaly]

Originally posted by Khyron


You've got it totally backwards. The whole point of the skinny 215 tires and the high reving motor is that you can break it loose at legal speeds on an off-ramp, you get the carving feeling without risking a suspension or court date. A 997 turbo you get about 3 seconds of WOOSH before you're either backing off or risking jail.


It's okay, I used to say that when I drove a slow car. ;)

[Khyron]

Originally posted by Anomaly


It's okay, I used to say that when I drove a slow car. ;)

You still do.

[Redlyne_mr2]

Omg no more track testing comparisons, we don't have a track and when we did 8 people on beyond used it lol.

Driving enjoyment is subjective, some people love the torquless ITR's that scream while others need mustang Torque. Those blinded by Toyota marketing fooled into thinking that the FRS is the end all be all of handling are wrong and those bashing the FRS because of all the hypes it's getting are wrong (IMO of course :)). It's a great car for the money

If I was in the market for one however I'd hold off for the turbo version if that ever does happen. That would be a perfect car IMO.

[Cos]

.

[heavyD]

Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2

If I was in the market for one however I'd hold off for the turbo version if that ever does happen. That would be a perfect car IMO.

I have nothing against the car. In fact I hope it succeeds to breed more of its kind as I'm a car guy and the last 15 years have been a little depressing watching automakers focus almost solely on SUV's. On a personal level the car is simply too slow for me to consider. I'm not asking for a lot in that 250-260 HP would probably suffice as long as the weight stays the same but I just can't go back to 1990's straight line performance no matter how well the car handles. I'm shallow that way.:burnout:

[Khyron]

My bet is 3 months or less for a 40hp SC or turbo kit for under 3K. Already a few promising dev threads on ft86club.

[Mista Bob]

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6349

[Sugarphreak]

...

[ExtraSlow]

There is a bit of a point there. My minivan would stack up favourable against most "sports" cars from the 1970's in terms of both accelleration and handling. Modern cars are simply very good compared to both recent history and the ability of the average person to operate them.