Only losers need automatic and launch control to win the 1/4 mile...

[superlative]

I'm surprised this is not a more popular notion, but why isn't it naturally frowned upon to use launch control and automatic shifting in 1/4 mile races?

It's like using robots to swing the golf club for you, or using hyper-hitting ultrasonic tennis racquets. The 1/4 mile to me, and especially for anyone who's participated in it, a very difficult challenge of coordination and reflexes and all these nanny launch controls and automatic shifting takes all the skill away.

I scoff at GTRs because it's only the car that's fast, not the driver.

Am I the only one who feels this way? Who knows, maybe in the future cars will drive themselves and drivers can sit in the audience and brag whose car has the better robot driver?

[J-hop]

This topic has been beat to death over and over and over and over and over again that is why you don't see these threads anymore.

[superlative]

I remember one time in the drag strip line-up, I asked this guy in a GTR what he got, and in his most douche-bag expression he could muster he said "I'm in the 11s". The first thing I thought was "no the Japanese engineers programmed your car into the 11s. You're still a zero."

My point is that I couldn't believe the gall of this guy to feel proud when he didn't require any real skill to achieve 11s, and people seem to still admire this. When someone lines up in a 60s Camaro and gets 11s - that's when I'm genuinely impressed.

[superlative]

Originally posted by J-hop
This topic has been beat to death over and over and over and over and over again that is why you don't see these threads anymore.

oh? I wasn't aware. What was the conclusion?

The reason why I brought this topic up was because I happened to click on a youtube video of a GTR in a drag race, and some owner was going on about how great he was and the time he got. It was apparent that he was completely oblivious to how much skill it actually took to launch and shift manually and that's what makes the 1/4 mile challenging.

On a track, there are many skills being used so nanny controls might be more forgiven; but in a 1/4 mile - the launch and shifting is IT. If you take that away with a computer, you are left with nothing.

[KRyn]

To quote Dom.... "Ask any racer, any real racer. It doesn't matter if you win by an inch or a mile; winning's winning."

Bro, me and my computer driven R35 GTR are going to smoke you and your crappy manual transmission whip.

:rofl:


Originally posted by superlative
When someone lines up in a 60s Camaro and gets 11s - that's when I'm genuinely impressed.

Who cares when you are impressed, you appear to be a giant butt hurt loser.

[lilmira]

Challenge your opponent to a 100m dash. A true test to one's true strength and determination.

[Modelexis]

The name of the game is how fast can you get to the end of the track (and not break out of your time if you're racing bracket).

You could just as easily say, 'only losers need massive turbos and nitrous and slicks to win the 1/4 mile'

If auto's are cheating, what about a dog box? what about a sequential shifter?

This is not 1985 anymore, there is such diversity out there on the track that you cannot impose your subjective preferences on an entire scene.

[rage2]

Why do you use drag tires in a drag race? To me, that's just taking the skill away. You've never experienced a 1/4 mile until you've done it on 4 spare donuts.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[gretz]

Originally posted by superlative
When someone lines up in a 60s Camaro and gets 11s - that's when I'm genuinely impressed.

And the majority of them run Turbo 350/400s or powerglides...

[superlative]

Originally posted by KRyn
To quote Dom.... "Ask any racer, any real racer. It doesn't matter if you win by an inch or a mile; winning's winning."

Bro, me and my computer driven R35 GTR are going to smoke you and your crappy manual transmission whip.


No, the Japanese engineers who programmed your car might whip me but you have done nothing of the sort. That's like saying I beat Tiger Woods in a golf video game. Yawn.

You might get some respect from ignorant people, but none from me and others who actually have to use some human skill to get good 1/4 mile times.

[TomcoPDR]

Originally posted by KRyn
To quote Dom.... "Ask any racer, any real racer. It doesn't matter if you win by an inch or a mile; winning's winning."

Bro, me and my computer driven R35 GTR are going to smoke you and your crappy manual transmission whip.



Who cares when you are impressed, you appear to be a giant butt hurt loser.

You must have NOS


Op it's because in today's world, there aren't as many diehard fans such as yourself. Things are becoming more and more mainstream and people just jump on band wagons. It sounds like you like to live a quarter mile at a time. Once you're in the drivers seat, it feels like nothing else matters in life right? Not the mortgage, not the wife, not the kids. And for those 11 sec of your life, it's like you're free.

[superlative]

Originally posted by Modelexis
The name of the game is how fast can you get to the end of the track (and not break out of your time if you're racing bracket).

You could just as easily say, 'only losers need massive turbos and nitrous and slicks to win the 1/4 mile'

If auto's are cheating, what about a dog box? what about a sequential shifter?


No, because those are still passive mechanical components that don't actually have any active component in the race. They are passive components that still require an active component (the driver) to use them properly.

The shifting and launching of the GTR is in the order of milli-seconds, far beyond the ability of humans and completely programmed and active components in the race.

[sputnik]

Originally posted by KRyn
Who cares when you are impressed, you appear to be a giant butt hurt loser.

I got $20 that he is under 20 year old... or at least has the intelligence of one.

[superlative]

Originally posted by TomcoPDR


Op it's because in today's world, there aren't as many diehard fans such as yourself. Things are becoming more and more mainstream and people just jump on band wagons. It sounds like you like to live a quarter mile at a time. Once you're in the drivers seat, it feels like nothing else matters in life right? Not the mortgage, not the wife, not the kids. And for those 11 sec of your life, it's like you're free.

I disagree. Most racing competitions out of Europe have these rules on what is and is not allowed. Most every other sport have banned some sort of performance enhancer.

In the 1/4 mile, the main factors requiring skill are the launch and the shifting and it's a pretty lame sport if you don't even do that any more.

I'm not expecting everyone to agree with me, but I am expecting the majority of people who enjoy the "sport" of it. However, I seem to be the minority - that's the weird part.

[rage2]

Originally posted by superlative
No, because those are still passive mechanical components that don't actually have any active component in the race. They are passive components that still require an active component (the driver) to use them properly.

The shifting and launching of the GTR is in the order of milli-seconds, far beyond the ability of humans and completely programmed and active components in the race.
How about a LSD? Is that cheating too? Or do you have a 4th pedal that controls torque distribution?

[superlative]

Originally posted by sputnik


I got $20 that he is under 20 year old... or at least has the intelligence of one.

There's always someone who's sole participation in a discussion is making fun of age for lack of any meaningful contribution to the discussion. Well done for that being "that" guy.

[sputnik]

Originally posted by superlative
You might get some respect from ignorant people, but none from me and others who actually have to use some human skill to get good 1/4 mile times.

The majority of the skill you speak of is while holding a wrench under the hood or perhaps milling your own cam shaft on a lathe.

Can you see how ridiculous that this argument can get?

A race is a race. A combination of car against car and driver against driver. If you don't like it, stick to cruising around high schools picking up chicks.

[superlative]

Originally posted by rage2

How about a LSD? Is that cheating too? Or do you have a 4th pedal that controls torque distribution?

The line has to be drawn somewhere, like it is in all racing competitions. What's the line for the 1/4 mile?

For me the difficulty has been getting the timing and pedal position right throughout the launch sequence and then shifting. That's why it baffles me that people will drive cars that have that completely computerized and then they pat themselves on the back when their car wins.

[superlative]

Originally posted by sputnik


The majority of the skill you speak of is while holding a wrench under the hood or perhaps milling your own cam shaft on a lathe.



You've obviously never done the 1/4 mile on a strip.

Can ignorant people please stay out of this?

And if "a race is just a race" - explain why every other "race" competition have rules?

Again: I understand why there are people who think like you do, but I'm just wondering why there aren't more people like me who think there should be some line drawn in the sand against cars doing all the skill part on behalf of the driver for the 1/4 mile.

It's the 80/20 rule. At least 80 should have a "purist" opinion of the 1/4 mile and maybe 20 should have the "no rules" opinion, but it seems to be the opposite.

[Sentry]

My old Civic could cut 1.7 60fts on slicks. All I did was wind it up to 6500 and let the clutch out. For shifting all I did was stab the clutch with my left foot and shift, kept my right foot planted.

Not a lot of skill there.

Who gives a shit about launch control and fancy transmissions.

If you want to complain about something, complain about fancy AWD and stability control systems.

[rage2]

Originally posted by superlative
The line has to be drawn somewhere, like it is in all racing competitions. What's the line for the 1/4 mile?
Oh what? There's a line? If so, let's refer to the NHRA, the de-facto standard for rules of drag racing, to see where the line should be drawn.

Look at that, LSD's and automatic transmissions are allowed in NHRA rules up to Pro Mod. So unless you drive a Pro Mod car like this:

http://nitromoose.ca/moosetracks/uploads/_MG_1690.jpg

Automatic transmissions are fair game. Or are you just looking for an excuse because you lost to an auto car?

(it's a slow Monday, and I'm not even a GT-R fan haha)

[benyl]

*grabs popcorn*

[95EG6P]

Originally posted by lilmira
Challenge your opponent to a 100m dash. A true test to one's true strength and determination.

:clap: lol

[superlative]

Originally posted by rage2

Oh what? There's a line? If so, let's refer to the NHRA, the de-facto standard for rules of drag racing, to see where the line should be drawn.

Look at that, LSD's and automatic transmissions are allowed in NHRA rules up to Pro Mod. So unless you drive a Pro Mod car like this:

http://nitromoose.ca/moosetracks/uploads/_MG_1690.jpg

Automatic transmissions are fair game. Or are you just looking for an excuse because you lost to an auto car?

(it's a slow Monday, and I'm not even a GT-R fan haha)

I haven't lined up against an automatic car. Why do people assume that someone who wants to discuss something does so because they "lost" in something? I'm just interested in exploring the philosphical elements of it.

Thanks for bringing up the NHRA rules, I don't agree with them - hence this discussion.

[Sentry]

I don't think you own a car.

[georgemagana]

Originally posted by rage2
Why do you use drag tires in a drag race? To me, that's just taking the skill away. You've never experienced a 1/4 mile until you've done it on 4 spare donuts.

Priceless!!!! lol

[superlative]

Originally posted by Sentry
My old Civic could cut 1.7 60fts on slicks. All I did was wind it up to 6500 and let the clutch out. For shifting all I did was stab the clutch with my left foot and shift, kept my right foot planted.

Not a lot of skill there.

Who gives a shit about launch control and fancy transmissions.

If you want to complain about something, complain about fancy AWD and stability control systems.

I don't know many people who can bang out the same times every single time. In my experience there can be variability of 1-2 seconds just based on botched shifts and launches - but guess what, none of that botching is possible if there is no human intervention in shifting and launching.

[J-hop]

just give it a rest, this is a topic that has no right answer. I'm not saying I don't agree with some of what you've said but a lot of it comes across as very naive.

I know a local guy who has a 1400+hp drag car, he runs an auto, are you calling him a poser?

[repncalgary]

Hey Superlative do you use a synchronized transmission? You do right? Why not go to an unsynchronized transmission and stop cheating?

[Sentry]

Originally posted by repncalgary
Hey Superlative do you use a synchronized transmission? You do right? Why not go to an unsynchronized transmission and stop cheating?
Haha granny shiftin not double clutchin like you should.

[benyl]

Originally posted by rage2
You've never experienced a 1/4 mile until you've done it on 4 spare donuts.

HPh90yNX-mY

[rage2]

Originally posted by superlative
Thanks for bringing up the NHRA rules, I don't agree with them - hence this discussion.
Well, if we're ignoring rules and discussing over opinions, why are we even talking about drag racing in street cars? You're not even using the middle brake pedal in the race! The skills required are minimal. Going in a straight line for 2 blocks? Please...

You want a challenge, forget the auto/manual debate. Try making some turns and braking on a roadcourse and see how fast and consistent you can go then.

[superlative]

Originally posted by Sentry
I don't think you own a car.

How the hell is that even relevant to the discussion?

[Mibz]

I thought superlative was an old member turned troll. Not so much anymore. He's got a bigger mouth than Mar, and more opinions. Hilarious.

[Redlined_8000]

Its not frowned upon because some very skilled engineers put many many hours of R&D into those computer systems and launch control to allow the car to preform at a astonishing level. Its the evolution of performance cars, in a way.... Why should that be frowned upon?
If a person is happy to buy a car with all these state of the art performance electronic luxuries, more power to him!


This is a troll thread.....

[Sugarphreak]

...

[superlative]

Originally posted by repncalgary
Hey Superlative do you use a synchronized transmission? You do right? Why not go to an unsynchronized transmission and stop cheating?

Again, there has to be a line drawn somewhere. If you take away the ability for the driver to make mistakes in shifting and launching, the sport of the 1/4 mile becomes meaningless.

It then becomes a challenge of who has the better build and bigger wallet. The way some of you guys are not taking this seriously affirms what I said before: I get why there would be SOME who disagree with me, I just don't get why MOST people disagree with me.

In the 1/4 mile, the most difficulty I had was launching and shifting. If shifting and launching was done for me, the 1/4 mile would be boring to me and unchallenging. And when I say "difficulty" I mean "I can't get the lap times that other drivers can get with the same car" - obviously there is room for improvement.

[schocker]

Originally posted by Mibz
I thought superlative was an old member turned troll. Not so much anymore. He's got a bigger mouth than Mar, and more opinions. Hilarious.
Throw some numbers at him to see how he really competes.

[superlative]

Originally posted by Redlined_8000
Its not frowned upon because some very skilled engineers put many many hours of R&D into those computer systems and launch control to allow the car to preform at a astonishing level. Its the evolution of performance cars, in a way.... Why should that be frowned upon?


Because the only two skills that are being tested in the 1/4 mile is in the areas of launching and shifting - if these are taken away then there's no challenge any more. We might as well quote magazine times and be done with it.

[Mibz]

You seem to be completely ignoring RT, or do you not care about a head's up race?

Bottom line, why do you give a shit what anybody else is doing for fun? Jesus.

[rage2]

Originally posted by superlative
Again, there has to be a line drawn somewhere. If you take away the ability for the driver to make mistakes in shifting and launching, the sport of the 1/4 mile becomes meaningless.
How about steering? You'll need to steer if you don't have sticky tires to keep the car straight. So why don't you have a problem with drag slicks?

[Mibz]

And really, if you've got an under-powered car then RWD and AWD are cheating. All drag cars should be FWD. No LSD.

[superlative]

Look guys, I'm not here to argue. I have my opinion, and you have yours. I'm not here to convert anyone, and the tone of many of the replies tells me that you think that.

I'm just wondering why (as I've repeated numerous times) there aren't more people who value the manual aspects of driving in the 1/4 mile.

[superlative]

Originally posted by Mibz
You seem to be completely ignoring RT, or do you not care about a head's up race?

Bottom line, why do you give a shit what anybody else is doing for fun? Jesus.

You seem to not understand the meaning of "forum". It's precisely for discussion. Why are you so annoyed about talking?

:rolleyes:

[Mibz]

So why the dramatic thread title? Seems to me you expected a bunch of people to agree with you and stroke your e-peen but now that you realize that the opposite is true you're trying to be friends.

You're asking why people have fun a certain way and it's ridiculous. Not because you're attacking them (despite the thread title) but because it's an impossible question to answer. One that anybody with some sense wouldn't ask. Smarten up.

[benyl]

The title of your thread is an argument. I have fed the troll.

[CSMRX7]

Originally posted by superlative
Look guys, I'm not here to argue. I have my opinion, and you have yours. I'm not here to convert anyone, and the tone of many of the replies tells me that you think that.

I'm just wondering why (as I've repeated numerous times) there aren't more people who value the manual aspects of driving in the 1/4 mile.

Really your not here to argue:rolleyes:

Reread your thread title and then get back to us on who is being aggressive and argumentative?

[superlative]

Originally posted by rage2

How about steering? You'll need to steer if you don't have sticky tires to keep the car straight. So why don't you have a problem with drag slicks?

I already answered you. You're just being argumentative now.

[CSMRX7]

Wow beat to the punch twice :D

[Kg810]

Originally posted by superlative
Look guys, I'm not here to argue. I have my opinion, and you have yours. I'm not here to convert anyone, and the tone of many of the replies tells me that you think that.

I'm just wondering why (as I've repeated numerous times) there aren't more people who value the manual aspects of driving in the 1/4 mile.

Lol you set the tone with the title of this thread, dumbass.

I bet there are guys who build their own project cars from scratch and they think you're a loser because you had to buy a mainstream vehicle to race. They probably think real men build their own cars and think losers have to buy one. So really, who the hell cares.

edit - oh god everyone else mentioned it before me hahah

[Mibz]

Originally posted by CSMRX7
Wow beat to the punch twice :D My computer has launch control and an automatic transmission.

[CSMRX7]

Originally posted by Mibz
My computer has launch control and an automatic transmission.

:rofl:

Best post of the thread

:rofl:

[Kg810]

Originally posted by Mibz
My computer has launch control and an automatic transmission.

LOL :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[lilmira]

Originally posted by Mibz
My computer has launch control and an automatic transmission.

Loser! Real winner uses dial-up. ;)

[gretz]

Originally posted by superlative


Because the only two skills that are being tested in the 1/4 mile is in the areas of launching and shifting - if these are taken away then there's no challenge any more. We might as well quote magazine times and be done with it.

Spoken like a true ignorant "racer" / rookie lol... as mentioned, R/T, proper burnout, proper staging depending on launch (roll-out), handling the car down the track, what happens when you have an overpowered car and can't hook between gears? No skill needed there lol

What is the fastest ET / Trap speed you have hit?

[arian_ma]

I'm really surprised that more people aren't agreeing with the OP here.

Other people make good points as well, but I think he's right in saying that there has to be a line drawn somewhere, if only for a drag race. There's really no point in lining up if you know you're going to get the exact same quarter mile time within a 1/4 of a second 10 times in a row, and all you gotta do to get that is plant your foot before the race starts...


Originally posted by gretz


Spoken like a true ignorant "racer" / rookie lol... as mentioned, R/T, proper burnout, proper staging depending on launch (roll-out), handling the car down the track, what happens when you have an overpowered car and can't hook between gears? No skill needed there lol

What is the fastest ET / Trap speed you have hit?
Are any of the problems you mentioned here apparent when drag racing a Nissan GTR for example?

[superlative]

Originally posted by CSMRX7


Really your not here to argue:rolleyes:

Reread your thread title and then get back to us on who is being aggressive and argumentative?

good point. I thought I was being dramatic for the sake of a headline, but clearly it's annoyed many people.

[rage2]

Originally posted by arian_ma
I'm really surprised that more people aren't agreeing with the OP here.
Because in competition racing, the point is to go as fast as possible within the rules.

If you're talking about just going out to have fun, then ya, a manual would probably be more fun than just stomping it in a GT-R.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by superlative
I'm just wondering why (as I've repeated numerous times) there aren't more people who value the manual aspects of driving in the 1/4 mile.

Because evolution?

If everyone is like you, we would still be driving and racing Model-T's.

And the fact is, manual will be retired like carburetor. And in the past, someone may say turbo is cheating. 20s 1/4 used to be the benchmark at some point. But eventually, it's all history and people moves on.

[rage2]

Originally posted by superlative
good point. I thought I was being dramatic for the sake of a headline, but clearly it's annoyed many people.
I doubt any of us are annoyed. Like I said, it's a slow Monday, and it's good entertainment going over a 10 year old debate.

[Disoblige]

Anyone remember Ron's DSM?
http://forums.beyond.ca/st/340730/project-2g-dsm-8s-and-street-driven/

[superlative]

Originally posted by gretz


Spoken like a true ignorant "racer" / rookie lol... as mentioned, R/T, proper burnout, proper staging depending on launch (roll-out), handling the car down the track, what happens when you have an overpowered car and can't hook between gears? No skill needed there lol

What is the fastest ET / Trap speed you have hit?

Everything you've mentioned is incorporated in the launch sequence and shifting! When I say shifting, I mean timing of shifts and coordinating that with acceleration control.

Fastest ET for me is 12.5s, trap at 126mph. I have very bad 60' time though, at about 2.3s because of traction and an iffy shifter that choaks on the 1-2 shift.

And that's my motivation for this post - the things I get wrong and that I'm working to improve are completely obsolete in the face of computerized launch control and shifting. When I eventually figure it out, it will be a triumph of skill (for me) - something that the GTR driver will never understand despite the fact that he will pat himself on the back for a job well done.

[gretz]

Originally posted by arian_ma

Are any of the problems you mentioned here apparent when drag racing a Nissan GTR for example?

I've never had the pleasure of driving one, however, OP said there are only 2 skills in drag racing, which what my post was in response to...

[CSMRX7]

Your making a huge assumption that the GTR driver is so dumb that he doesn't know his car has technology that gives him an advantage. For all you know he could also have a 69 Camaro that runs 11s.

I would have to say that most GTR owners are gear heads and have likely owned a lot of other cars, and understand what it takes to be a good driver.

[heavyD]

Originally posted by superlative


Everything you've mentioned is incorporated in the launch sequence and shifting! When I say shifting, I mean timing of shifts and coordinating that with acceleration control.

Fastest ET for me is 12.5s, trap at 126mph. I have very bad 60' time though, at about 2.3s because of traction and an iffy shifter that choaks on the 1-2 shift.

And that's my motivation for this post - the things I get wrong and that I'm working to improve are completely obsolete in the face of computerized launch control and shifting. When I eventually figure it out, it will be a triumph of skill (for me) - something that the GTR driver will never understand despite the fact that he will pat himself on the back for a job well done.

It's not that you get them wrong and it's not a triumph of skill as all your issues are related to overcoming the deficiencies of your car. Get a car with a solid manual transmission and tires and any 'skill' you attain with this car will not be required.

[BananaFob]

Originally posted by superlative


Fastest ET for me is 12.5s, trap at 126mph. I have very bad 60' time though, at about 2.3s because of traction and an iffy shifter that choaks on the 1-2 shift.

And that's my motivation for this post - the things I get wrong and that I'm working to improve are completely obsolete in the face of computerized launch control and shifting. When I eventually figure it out, it will be a triumph of skill (for me) - something that the GTR driver will never understand despite the fact that he will pat himself on the back for a job well done.

... you trap at 126mph and run a 12.5s 1/4 mile and yet you feel qualified to rag on GTR drivers patting their backs eh? :rolleyes: Don't get better tires though, that would be cheating.

[Laoz]

Originally posted by Modelexis
The name of the game is how fast can you get to the end of the track (and not break out of your time if you're racing bracket).

You could just as easily say, 'only losers need massive turbos and nitrous and slicks to win the 1/4 mile'

If auto's are cheating, what about a dog box? what about a sequential shifter?

This is not 1985 anymore, there is such diversity out there on the track that you cannot impose your subjective preferences on an entire scene.

I know a small amount about cars but I think what he's saying is true. It's just evolution, the car industry is evolving with better technology and if a an automatic car built with launch control can get a decent time at the track then you really have no one to blame, maybe the engineers?:dunno:

[Darkane]

Originally posted by superlative
Look guys, I'm not here to argue. I have my opinion, and you have yours. I'm not here to convert anyone, and the tone of many of the replies tells me that you think that.

I'm just wondering why (as I've repeated numerous times) there aren't more people who value the manual aspects of driving in the 1/4 mile.

As of the latest Model of the GT3-RS (3.8 and 4.0), Porsche values it, well for the track. Not necessarily 1/4.

Only manual, although the 991 series may be PDK.

:drama: :drama:

[max_boost]

I bought my 911 because it was automatic. True story!

[Disoblige]

If Beyond was a cooking forum:

"Only losers use a hand blender for their lentil soup. I skilfully use a rusty old whisk."

Discuss.

[ercchry]

this whole thread is pointless... why? cause 1/4mile is still the worse forum of motor-sport in existence

you want to show off your leet mad tyte skillzz? hop in a formula 1 car

/thread

[ichewyou]

I'm guessing superlative drives a DeLorean DMC-12

^and F1 uses sequential gearbox which won't float OP's boat in shifting is a key skill.

[SKR]

You still have to tune the car so you can put the power down. I think the OP is overlooking that part. In many forms of drag racing, and I think that includes getting into the 11's like was talked about earlier, if your car isn't set up right it doesn't matter if you're banging gears or just holding it on the floor.

I think drag racing has always been more about the car than the driver.

[bart]

i am all for dsg if it makes you faster, better fuel economy too!

whats worse is taking out spare tire and seats only to put them back in after the 1/4 :rolleyes:

[JZS_147]

This thread is dumb.

Why would you not use launch control? To impress snobs? Why not use technology to your advantage?....just to keep it real yo

Auto's are faster in the 1/4, if you're building your car strictly to be competitive in this form of racing, why would you not do it?

I guess everyone should run carburetors too, just to keep drag racing competitive. :rofl:

[Xtrema]

Using calculators are cheating after I spend years on perfecting my abacus skill.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/af/Abacus_6.png for life!


Originally posted by superlative
And that's my motivation for this post - the things I get wrong and that I'm working to improve are completely obsolete in the face of computerized launch control and shifting. When I eventually figure it out, it will be a triumph of skill (for me) - something that the GTR driver will never understand despite the fact that he will pat himself on the back for a job well done.

Appreciate your passion but eventually technology will beat human in everything. But you shouldn't be discouraged that you got beat by tech. If it weren't for tech, we won't be having all these insanely powerful cars from the factory in the first place.

[M.alex]

LSD? Automatics? ECU driving the car? Manuals?

OMFG, what a bunch of nancy-ass pansies in this thread.

Unless you've built your car from the chassis up, and installed everything single component yourself - fuel, wiring, suspension, etc..., you're not driving a real car....you're just driving a heartless piece of metal a machine on an assembly line made

Okay, carry on :angel:

[MrSector9]

losers.

http://www.crankmotoring.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/top_fuel.jpg


only 1 forward gear definantly takes away all the control from the car.

[know1edge]

So is it ok to use an automated program to get tickets on ticketmaster faster?

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by know1edge
So is it ok to use an automated program to get tickets on ticketmaster faster?

It is if you are Ticketmaster
http://www.ticketsnow.com/

[Mitsu3000gt]

This thread makes me laugh. Apparently "the line" is drawn precisely at the point at which the OP is likely to lose a drag race, but everything else is OK :rofl: .

[hampstor]

bitch please...

No suspension
No power steering
Solid axles
Organic brakes



http://hooniverse.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/13.jpg

[Disoblige]

^^ Cheating. Look at all that extra traction.

[dirtsniffer]

awdtsi, is that you?

[rage2]

Originally posted by hampstor
bitch please...

No suspension
No power steering
Solid axles
Organic brakes

http://hooniverse.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/13.jpg

Originally posted by Disoblige
^^ Cheating. Look at all that extra traction.
It's cheating so much it's been banned.

http://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/yabba-dabba-dont-flintstones-replica-car-banned-from-german-roads/

[guessboi]

5 pages in a day. Epic thread. :D

[sputnik]

Originally posted by lilmira


Loser! Real winner uses dial-up. ;)

http://www.virtualmv.com/virtualMe/vMe_mv/v2/v2com/v2gr/v2gr_sw/in_trump.gif

[superlative]

Originally posted by Laoz


I know a small amount about cars but I think what he's saying is true. It's just evolution, the car industry is evolving with better technology and if a an automatic car built with launch control can get a decent time at the track then you really have no one to blame, maybe the engineers?:dunno:

Look most of you guys are focusing on how "stupid" my post is, but I think it's a legitimate point that there has to be some line drawn in the sand that determines human skill in the equation.

Some of you are implying that there's absolutely no skill involved in drag racing and any idiot can do it which leads me to believe you've never done it.

Some of you are using inequivalent arguments about LSD. LSD is not an interactive touch point. The shifter/clutch/gas-pedal are - and the interactions with which change dramatically with launch control and automatic. Synchro gears is an equivalent argument - I'll grant you that but no cars come out without synchro gears. I will say that some cars cannot achieve their posted performance numbers without electronic nannies and synchro gears is more a factor of convenience rather than achieving those posted performance numbers.

The very basic interactive touch points of a car in drag racing are the accelerator, clutch, steering wheel and shifter. In an automatic, you've removed the need for the clutch and shifter. Am I in the 0.001% of this forum that gets the significance of that? It's like removing the need for legs in playing tennis - the experience is completely different. If I didn't have to shift or regulate the accelerator when launching - there's nothing left for me to do.

Why am I alone in seeing this point? You guys are making fun of me as if I am a total idiot for thinking that. It's so obvious to everyone here that the less we have to interact with the car the more awesome everyone is, and I'm the idiot for thinking the opposite.

[rage2]

Originally posted by superlative
Synchro gears is an equivalent argument - I'll grant you that but no cars come out without synchro gears. I will say that some cars cannot achieve their posted performance numbers without electronic nannies and synchro gears is more a factor of convenience rather than achieving those posted performance numbers.
GT-R doesn't come with a manual transmission, so using your argument, that would be perfectly fine, just like synchro gears.


Originally posted by superlative
The very basic interactive touch points of a car in drag racing are the accelerator, clutch, steering wheel and shifter. In an automatic, you've removed the need for the clutch and shifter. Am I in the 0.001% of this forum that gets the significance of that? It's like removing the need for legs in playing tennis - the experience is completely different. If I didn't have to shift or regulate the accelerator when launching - there's nothing left for me to do.

Why am I alone in seeing this point? You guys are making fun of me as if I am a total idiot for thinking that. It's so obvious to everyone here that the less we have to interact with the car the more awesome everyone is, and I'm the idiot for thinking the opposite.
It's because most of us have already mastered manual transmissions, and have moved on years ago. There's other interactions with a car aside from manual shifting, but you'll have to get past the drag racing part to see it.

[Sentry]

Originally posted by rage2
It's because most of us have already mastered manual transmissions, and have moved on years ago. There's other interactions with a car aside from manual shifting, but you'll have to get past the drag racing part to see it.

Ding ding ding ding

The reason OP is being made fun of is because his posts all sound like someone who just learned to drive manual/a car.

[superlative]

Originally posted by guessboi
5 pages in a day. Epic thread. :D

I know right? Discussion is healthy, but in any forum there are forum nazis who are just itching to chime in and shut down the discussion before their heads explode. Apparently it's easier for them to write a post about that than simply ignoring the thread, either that or they have an irresistable compulsion to control any thoughts that are in opposition to their world-view.

[superlative]

Originally posted by rage2



It's because most of us have already mastered manual transmissions, and have moved on years ago. There's other interactions with a car aside from manual shifting, but you'll have to get past the drag racing part to see it.

The context of this discussion is drag racing, not track racing. So talking about anything else kinda defeats the purpose of this discussion. I don't recall any post of mine in this thread bemoaning the use of launch control/automatics in track racing - do you?

[sputnik]

Originally posted by superlative


I know right? Discussion is healthy, but in any forum there are forum nazis who are just itching to chime in and shut down the discussion before their heads explode. Apparently it's easier for them to write a post about that than simply ignoring the thread, either that or they have an irresistable compulsion to control any thoughts that are in opposition to their world-view.

Got any pics of your car or videos of your drag racing skills to share with the non-believers?

[superlative]

Originally posted by Sentry


Ding ding ding ding

The reason OP is being made fun of is because his posts all sound like someone who just learned to drive manual/a car.

I must have over a million kilometers under my belt. I think it's sheer arrogance for you guys to dismiss the idea I am presenting merely because you are offended by the notion that I oppose automatics/launch control in the 1/4 mile probably because that's what you need to be any good.

Even IF I have just learned how to drive a car or a stick shift, that is irrelevant to the topic. The consistency in which some of you like to go on a tangent and digress shows that you don't really have a good enough argument that can stand on it's own merit.

From anecdotal "evidence", I know there are people who would never buy a sports car with an automatic. Are they idiots? Because it sounds like many of you think they are for being stupid enough to think there's value in increasing the level of interaction between driver and car.

[J-hop]

Originally posted by superlative


I know right? Discussion is healthy, but in any forum there are forum nazis who are just itching to chime in and shut down the discussion before their heads explode. Apparently it's easier for them to write a post about that than simply ignoring the thread, either that or they have an irresistable compulsion to control any thoughts that are in opposition to their world-view.

Superlative, that isn't at all the case, you are talking with some people that have been on beyond from the beginning, do a google search on beyond threads and as I mentioned in the first reply to this thread you'll see this has been argued since the dawn of beyond. This isn't some epic thought provoking thread it is just another kick from a horse that just wont seem to die.

There is no right answer because what you want out of a car is (and should be) different from what the person next to you wants, you can't ask people to change personal preference like that, just move on.

No one is trying to silence you, just coming on here and calling everyone a loser who doesn't agree with your exact opinion is rather childish and annoying to say the least....

[superlative]

Originally posted by sputnik


Got any pics of your car or videos of your drag racing skills to share with the non-believers?

Yes, but no I am not going to share it because I know how these things go: the discussion ends up getting personal and the level of tangential personal jabs at me leads me to believe it would be a stupid idea.

The video I have is crap. It was my first time and my time was something like 14s. I have found a deserted road and used an Aeroforce Interceptor to get the 12.5s I posted earlier.

I know for a fact that if I had launch control I would be in the 11s as there are newer versions of my car with launch control. For me to go into the 11s is fricking tough without changing my tires, so if I actually did get into the 11s (without changing tires) - wouldn't that be a triumph of skill?

[Mibz]

It's not arrogance, it's just that we've had this conversation a dozen times before and a good number of us have just gotten past the "Gotta have a manual" phase of our lives. Some people never get out of it, some people never have it in the first place. Simple as that. I don't think anybody is going to argue that a MT is harder to take down the strip than an automatic. What we're saying amounts to nothing more than "Who cares?".

The reason people are getting offended is because of the way you're attacking everyone. From the thread title to this accusation of arrogance, you've doing a hypocritical dance. You tell people they're dismissing you out of hate or jealousy, at the same time dismissing them for reasons unknown and then insulting them. Don't get mad at people for getting defensive when you've been on the offensive the entire time.

I've already told you, you're asking people to objectively justify why they like something, or why they care/DGAF about something, and that's silly. What answers did you honestly expect? And that's a serious question. What are some examples of responses you expected?

EDIT: LOL @ trusting a gauge for your 1/4 mile time.

[Disoblige]

Originally posted by superlative

Can ignorant people please stay out of this?

hdKr1jlDzW4

[superlative]

Originally posted by J-hop


Superlative, that isn't at all the case, you are talking with some people that have been on beyond from the beginning, do a google search on beyond threads and as I mentioned in the first reply to this thread you'll see this has been argued since the dawn of beyond. This isn't some epic thought provoking thread it is just another kick from a horse that just wont seem to die.

There is no right answer because what you want out of a car is (and should be) different from what the person next to you wants, you can't ask people to change personal preference like that, just move on.

No one is trying to silence you, just coming on here and calling everyone a loser who doesn't agree with your exact opinion is rather childish and annoying to say the least....

The thread title was a little childish and attention-getting, I agree. But like any good headline it was merely to draw attention to the thread - I didn't use the word "loser" in the discussion (as far as I recall).

Again - I'm not asking people to change their stance, I'm just wondering why it's not a more pervasive notion that launch control and automatics be frowned upon in the quarter mile.

I recall the earlier version GTR was banned from some races because of AWD, and magnetic suspension is banned from other types of races; so there is obviously some merit to the notion of tradition in racing. But in the sport of drag racing, the notion of "tradition" seems antiquated judging by how many people think that automatics and launch control are "okay".

I'm fine with the discussion ending here.