Pressure Treated Deck Size?

[CorollaXRS]

HI All,

I am not sure if my Installer is telling me the truth about this comment,

We want an 18' x 14' Deck, and he had selected Pressure Treated Wood and start working, but then he start saying,

The maximum size of the PT deck can be build is 16.10' x 14', so he can't do what we request.

I would just like to know, is there a such maximum size on the PT deck? Also, he is starting to work, and now is asking for more money to completed the work...

[Ntense_SpecV]

Originally posted by CorollaXRS
HI All,

I am not sure if my Installer is telling me the truth about this comment,

We want an 18' x 14' Deck, and he had selected Pressure Treated Wood and start working, but then he start saying,

The maximum size of the PT deck can be build is 16.10' x 14', so he can't do what we request.

I would just like to know, is there a such maximum size on the PT deck? Also, he is starting to work, and now is asking for more money to completed the work...

You should be able to build any deck any size - before it's treated it's still just regular wood, and I've seen decks much bigger than 18'x14'. All it takes to make a bigger deck is larger framing members which will add to the bottom line. I'm speculating that your contractor quoted a little low and is now concerned he will not make any money on this project or end up losing money. Oh and if your contractor is already asking for more money already - fire him. Get rid of him quick as he will drag this out as long as possible and ask for more money over the course of the project.

[CapnCrunch]

Originally posted by Ntense_SpecV


You should be able to build any deck any size - before it's treated it's still just regular wood, and I've seen decks much bigger than 18'x14'. All it takes to make a bigger deck is larger framing members which will add to the bottom line. I'm speculating that your contractor quoted a little low and is now concerned he will not make any money on this project or end up losing money. Oh and if your contractor is already asking for more money already - fire him. Get rid of him quick as he will drag this out as long as possible and ask for more money over the course of the project.

+1!!!

Fire him asap or you'll have to chase him down in court.

[blitz]

Typically 16' is the maximum length of 2x10, which is what you'd use for joists.

Do you want the deck to extend 18' from the house? Because that would be a lot more difficult than 16'.

[ExtraSlow]

This guy is a clown. If he didn't do the proper planning beforehand, that's a bad sign. If he can't afford to finsih the work without being paid in installments, that's a bad sign.

Fire this guy.

[wtf im nameless]

My pressure treated deck is 18x25 :dunno:

[Sugarphreak]

...

[CapnCrunch]

Originally posted by blitz
Typically 16' is the maximum length of 2x10, which is what you'd use for joists.

Do you want the deck to extend 18' from the house? Because that would be a lot more difficult than 16'.

2-16' joists = 32'.

[blitz]

That's true, but it complicates the framing. If you're doing a 24 or 32' deck it's part of the game, but IMO it's not worth the hassle for an extra 2' to go to 18'.

[Ntense_SpecV]

Originally posted by blitz
That's true, but it complicates the framing. If you're doing a 24 or 32' deck it's part of the game, but IMO it's not worth the hassle for an extra 2' to go to 18'.

Which is why I think you are correct with your first post. Single beam with joist style framing which is why the contractor is only allowing for 16' deck max. in this case. I will totally agree with ExtraSlow in that this guy didn't even look at the design or home owner wishes before agreeing to do it. Now he's crying foul after the fact.

[FiveFreshFish]

He quoted a price for an 18'x14' deck and now he wants to charge more for a smaller one?

As others have said, fire him and find a company that knows what they're doing.

[dflamzer]

To be truthful as I know quite a bit about this.

You can max out on single 2x10's at 18 feet span off the deck nailer of the home.

You are allowed to let your joists span 16 feet and then another 2 feet for overhang off the main support beams.

So 18 feet is the MAX you could do using a standard 2x10x16 joist. For that span it has to be a 2x10 and nothing smaller.

So yes he's screwing you. Either he has limited deck building knowledge or he's just trying to squeeze you for more money.

[samo147]

On a similar note.

Has anyone used any reputable companies to build a deck for their home?

Would appreciate some good references as I too am looking to hire someone to build a deck.

[ddduke]

Originally posted by dflamzer
To be truthful as I know quite a bit about this.

You can max out on single 2x10's at 18 feet span off the deck nailer of the home.

You are allowed to let your joists span 16 feet and then another 2 feet for overhang off the main support beams.

So 18 feet is the MAX you could do using a standard 2x10x16 joist. For that span it has to be a 2x10 and nothing smaller.

So yes he's screwing you. Either he has limited deck building knowledge or he's just trying to squeeze you for more money.

What about running a 20ft joist with multiple beams set at lets say 12ft then again at 18ft? That could also work.

You must have hired a general contractor and he probably doesn't know much about deck building because you can get all sorts of sizes that are larger then 16ft. It also sounds weird that he started building before you guys had a solid plan made up.

I personally have both cedar and treated 20ft boards in 5/4x6, 2x6, 2x8 and 2x10 in stock right now so he is definitely trying to pull some shit.

[dflamzer]

Nah I've worked with a company that does decks year round and often the preference is single joist structures unless they are doing something exotic.

The second you start sistering joists together to increase the span you need to start putting in significantly more deck footings to make it work. Not saying it's not there but a lot of companies will prefer single joists as they can get that deck done a whole lot faster.

[CapnCrunch]

Originally posted by dflamzer
Nah I've worked with a company that does decks year round and often the preference is single joist structures unless they are doing something exotic.



No offense, but if you agree to build me an 18ft long deck, I don't give a fuck what's easier for you to build.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[Kloubek]

Focus 4 does pretty good work from what I've seen; they built the fence for our neighbor and were one of the only ones to use metal brackets, where most don't use any at all. It also seems pretty darn solid, and I would imagine their decks are similar.

My only beef with them (and why they are not building my fence) is because my neighbor got their fence for $31/lf last fall and they insisted on charging me more. I asked them to reduce it just $1/lf to get closer to the $31 my neighbor paid and they refused and did not explain why it had to be more. I decided not to go with them on premise; the price would still have been on par with most other companies.

[dflamzer]

Originally posted by CapnCrunch


No offense, but if you agree to build me an 18ft long deck, I don't give a fuck what's easier for you to build.

Oh you will care once you realize one method is going to cost you a lot more. and I mean a heck of a lot more as you are going to double the number of footings and then sister together every single joist. It will virtually increase the cost of your deck by at least 30% if not more.

Also if you want a good company, you can check out paradise landscape. They built our fence and did a wicked job for a good price.

[CapnCrunch]

Originally posted by dflamzer


Oh you will care once you realize one method is going to cost you a lot more. and I mean a heck of a lot more as you are going to double the number of footings and then sister together every single joist. It will virtually increase the cost of your deck by at least 30% if not more.

Also if you want a good company, you can check out paradise landscape. They built our fence and did a wicked job for a good price.

If you followed this thread, a price was already agreed upon.

Are you saying it's ok to quote a price for an 18ft deck, then come back and ask for more money? Or even worse, assume I'm an idiot and say you can't build a pressure treated deck over 16ft?

This guy is a piece of trash, I'm not sure why you're defending him.

[dflamzer]

We aren't defending him. I've actually clearly said the guy is wrong.

But, you seem to think there is no difference in building a deck with single joists as compared with sistered joists over a long span, where as the difference is huge and should be asked before they proceed.

Sistered joists means double the lumber for the joists, larger hangers, more screws, and double the footings. That was my point as you said it doesn't matter, it does.

The person he has hired obviously either doesn't:

A) Have a vast amount of deck knowledge to know you can span single 2x10x16 beams for an 18 foot deck or

B) Is trying to screw the client out of money.

Neither option is good. All you need to do is check the city deck code to get that information. So it's there for anybody to see. However, for whatever reason this doesn't seem to stop an endless numbe rof idiots from using 2x6 joists and 4x4 posts or trying to use 24" joist spacing just because they say you can.

You should also avoid any company that gives you a quote on a deck based purely on the square footage of the deck as it is not an accurate way of addressing the realistic cost of the deck. If somebody does give you a quote per square foot ask them why it is what it is and to break it down for you.

[ddduke]

Originally posted by dflamzer
You should also avoid any company that gives you a quote on a deck based purely on the square footage of the deck as it is not an accurate way of addressing the realistic cost of the deck. If somebody does give you a quote per square foot ask them why it is what it is and to break it down for you.

This is the biggest pile of shit that I have ever heard. As long as a customer chooses a standard size then there is no problems with charging per square foot (with a minimum price, ofcourse). Also, there's 20ft joists out there, so you can use single joist construction up to 20ft.

[CorollaXRS]

Well, now we have talked with him and he is agree to do his best to get the 18'. Hope he know what he is doing, and make sure the 18' can support the weight that will be put on top of it. I am worry, he will give you 18' but then the piles are not strong enough to support the BBQ equipment and a party of people and collapse.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[dflamzer]

Originally posted by ddduke


This is the biggest pile of shit that I have ever heard. As long as a customer chooses a standard size then there is no problems with charging per square foot (with a minimum price, ofcourse). Also, there's 20ft joists out there, so you can use single joist construction up to 20ft.

Sorry it totally is not unless you are unedcated.

You can't quote a deck price in overall square footage as there are a lot of factors that play into the total cost.

Depends on the direction of the joists, if you have a deck nailer or are making floating un-attached deck, what kind of system you want to use to secure deck boards, the kind of deck boards you want to use, how many footings you need, etc. Sorry there is no one simple way to make a basic price on square footage.

Also 20' single span joists are against cost in our province.

[CapnCrunch]

Originally posted by dflamzer

But, you seem to think there is no difference in building a deck with single joists as compared with sistered joists over a long span, where as the difference is huge and should be asked before they proceed.



I'm not saying there is no difference at all. I'm just saying it's not the customers responsibility. He obviously doesn't know much about decks or sistering joists or piles or footings. That's why he's paid a "professional" to do it. That's my only point and nothing more.

[ddduke]

Originally posted by dflamzer


Sorry it totally is not unless you are unedcated.

You can't quote a deck price in overall square footage as there are a lot of factors that play into the total cost.

Depends on the direction of the joists, if you have a deck nailer or are making floating un-attached deck, what kind of system you want to use to secure deck boards, the kind of deck boards you want to use, how many footings you need, etc. Sorry there is no one simple way to make a basic price on square footage.

Also 20' single span joists are against cost in our province.

Yes, there is and you're just talking out of your ass. You just have to base everything on different per foot rates.

For example, someone wants a deck that's treated, size is 10x10, has 17ft of railing, 3ft stairs (3 risers), and wants the entire deck skirted vertically.
100sq/ft of deck at $14 = $1400
17ft of basic wood rail at $18 = $306
9ft of stairs ($25/ft per step) = $225
34sq/ft of skirting at $25/ft = $850
Pulling permit = $600
TOTAL: $3381 + GST

I have a price list with hundreds of potential options that someone can come up with. There's different pricing for different types of railing, wood, whether stairs wrap corners. There's also pricing for overages that may come up when planning, like needing an extra beam, extra posts, using upgraded fasteners like trimhead screws. If you follow your basic formula then you can always come up with a fair price, there's something wrong with you if you think otherwise.

How else would you price it? Figure out how much materials cost then off the top of your head decide what a fair labour price is? Give me a break.

[dflamzer]

No. Any intelligent deck builder that isn't screwing you and knows what they are doing will want to quote you for:

# of joists
# of footings
# of stairs
# of deck boards
# of screws
# of hangers

Not to mention the number of man hours it'll take to construct the deck. Not sure where you pulled that permit price either.


It's all variable depending on the exact deck plan beingbuilt. So to say you can purely give an accurate estimate on cost without the exact plan is a little unrealistic.

Seriously a big difference in cost between 12", 16" and 20" on center joists or a deck that can be literally 1 foot longer and yet require 4 extra footings. This is exactly why you can't guestimate the cost of the deck without doing a run down of the supplies needed as every deck will be different.

Also no word of a lie, too many people these days messing around with 24" on center joist spacing just because code says you can.

[ddduke]

I'm done arguing with you, you obviously know nothing about estimating and this isn't going anywhere.

I've been in the deck and fence game for over a decade (decks and fences, nothing else), every year I get a handful of quotes from competing companies, so I know how people price and every big player goes by square footage. Also, I can count on one hand how many times I've seen a deck with 2ft centres being built, it's not as common as you say. You probably spent a summer building decks and think you know everything.

[dflamzer]

Let me guess you also can give me a really good estimate on a house just based on square footage too.

Basing any price on simple square footage is what retards do that refuse to give somebody an honest accurate quote. These are the type of contractors that come back and tell the client, oh by the way, it's going to cost an extra $1200.

It's idiots like you that represent what the OP is originally posting about. People that think they can give an accurate cost with being provided a really basic description.

Sorry but you are utterly incorrect as there are so many factors that go into building a deck of which you obvious know absolutely nothing.

Important factors that come into pricing a deck for a quote. Honestly, call other reputable companies you'll find the same answers.

1. How high off the ground is the deck.
2. Is the ground primarily clay or is it rocky.
3. Do you have a deck nailer.
4. What type of material would you prefer.
5. What type of fasteners would you prefer.
6. What type of railing would you prefer.

You can't give an honest quote without knowing this type of information because....

1. The height of the deck will effect just what type of support beams you should be using.

2. If the ground is clay it's never a problem however there are a lot of communities where after two feet you'll encounter a lot of solid rock that isn't exactly easy to put footings in.

3. Without the deck nailer you'd most likely recommend a floating deck system which will increase the number of footings and support beams you require.

4. Material, fasteners and railing are HUGE in the overall finish and quality and unless all you are doing is providing a standard PT deck then well you shouldn't even be in business anyways.

The expectation when hiring a contract should be a seamless installation that looks like a pro did it. Not like some smuck that just builds decks on the side. Again if you were a pro you'd know this. I've worked for companies all while going through school that did nothing but build decks.

There is no such thing as a simple and accurate quote for a deck as there is a lot that goes into providing a client a real quote.

And REAL COMPANIES will give you a quote that won't change a penny. They'll know the exact cost not an estimate based on simple square footage.

[ddduke]

Originally posted by dflamzer

1. How high off the ground is the deck.
2. Is the ground primarily clay or is it rocky.
3. Do you have a deck nailer.
4. What type of material would you prefer.
5. What type of fasteners would you prefer.
6. What type of railing would you prefer.



You're a moron buddy and I stand by my original point of you not knowing a thing about estimating. BTW, are you an estimator and do you own your own deck company or did you just work for one and assume that you know everything?

1. How high off the ground is the deck.
-we have 4 different per square foot rates for this, whether it's ground level, basic height of 16inches to 5ft, walk up height of around 6ft or walk out height of 8ft plus.

2. Is the ground primarily clay or is it rocky.
-this makes no difference to us, we have bobcats.

3. Do you have a deck nailer.
-If you do then regular square foot rates apply, if you don't we have additional charges for extra holes and beams to make a floating deck.

4. What type of material would you prefer.
-We offer kayu, treated (2 prices for 5/4 or 2x6), cedar (2 prices for 5/4 or 2x6), composite (different square foot rates depending if it's top screwed or has hidden fasteners) and bamboo. Each material has a different square foot rate.

5. What type of fasteners would you prefer.
this only applies on certain products, kayu and composite based on install only get one type of screw from grk fasteners. Otherwise all basic wood types are priced with regular coated screws and we charge an additional square foot cost for things like trimhead or hidden.

6. What type of railing would you prefer.
Each type or railing we have has a different per foot rate. ie: 2inch aluminum is $35/ft installed, basic treated (we show samples of product) is $18/ft, same product in cedar is $23/ft.

Obviously you're not reading my posts, I have a price list of hundreds of different potential deck options. When you're with a customer and they want something custom, you draw out a plan with them, then you use the square footage off the plan to come up with a formula of different variables to come to an end price. The only time you're kind of right is when someone makes a completely out of the ordinary request such as a granite counter or an outdoor fire place, in this case we figure out how much materials cost and time to install then we charge materials + 10% for sourcing/pick up + amount of hours to install(basic hourly rate of $50/hr for the first guy and $30/hr for every additional man).

Also, you're an idiot for thinking I would EVER overcharge a client. I have done work for over 20 different beyonders and have NEVER gone over my original quote. Right in our policies (that I read to EVERY customer) it says that:

a) we do not take deposits, we cover all the cost of materials and labour and then make sure you are satisfied before you pay

b) we guarantee that what we quote is what you pay. In our contract (that EVERY customer has signed) it says our our final price directly followed by _____ ________ (company name) agrees to honor this price.

EDIT:
Based off this thread:
http://forums.beyond.ca/st/356858/a-cheap-diy-patio-/

You obviously don't know shit, so now this argument is really done.

"According to code they say I could run a 2x6 beam and 2x6 joist. I would think if there is just 3 feet of space between each footing it would allow for a little leeway as opposed to using 2x8...."

You're asking the general public how to build your own deck and whether your "plans" will cut it, then you start a fight with me like you're a pro. Pull your head out of your ass.

[FraserB]

Jesus ddduke, you make me want to buy a house just to build a deck lol

[Sugarphreak]

...

[CapnCrunch]

Originally posted by ddduke


You're a moron buddy and I stand by my original point of you not knowing a thing about estimating.


Pull your head out of your ass.

You win this thread, good sir. :thumbsup:

:rofl:

[Ntense_SpecV]

So ddduke what you're saying is that you have built a deck or 20 in your time - LOL. I was curious to know about the Kayu decking and how it weather's here in Calgary? It looks like a beautiful product.

[blitz]

Originally posted by ddduke

EDIT:
Based off this thread:
http://forums.beyond.ca/st/356858/a-cheap-diy-patio-/

You obviously don't know shit, so now this argument is really done.

"According to code they say I could run a 2x6 beam and 2x6 joist. I would think if there is just 3 feet of space between each footing it would allow for a little leeway as opposed to using 2x8...."

You're asking the general public how to build your own deck and whether your "plans" will cut it, then you start a fight with me like you're a pro. Pull your head out of your ass.

Jesus Christ, I didn't realize that was the same guy.

I'm building a Kayu deck right now at my house. Everyone I've talked to recommends going with 4" boards in Calgary to avoid cupping. Amazing wood.

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t191/FrinkOctane/Deck.jpg

[Crystalrw]

Wow blitz, that deck is sexy!! Are you doing that yourself? Any deck building experience?

We bought a house and the person who owned it before us did a deck DIY and it looks like shit.

The cement pilings all sunk into the ground and they kept shimming it with cinder blocks and 2x4s to keep the whole deck from sinking.

I desperately want a new deck but have seen quotes all across the board and the cost is a hard pill to swallow.