Apple v. Samsung, who copied who? The court battle begins.

[ZMan2k2]

http://www.shawconnect.ca/NewsArticle/Tech/6442472194_198/Apple,_Samsung_face_off_in_US_court_over_patents_to_iPhones,_iPads/story.aspx

Pretty big stakes. 2.5Billion payout demand by Apple for copyright infringement. Samsung making similar demands in counter-suit. iOS v. Android. Discuss.

[FixedGear]

stupidest thing i've ever heard. fuck apple.

[Xtrema]

Nobody is innocent in this fight.

[kvg]

:facepalm: Apple. There has to be something more specific to the suit.

[FixedGear]

call me a godless commie, but IMO competition is a good thing.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[FixedGear]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
Apple stole all of its other technologies and interfaces from everybody from day 1, hard to believe they are the originator of the lawsuit.

LOL no doubt

[BerserkerCatSplat]

He said that even though the case will be decided by 10 jurors, the judge has the authority to overrule their decision if she thinks they got it wrong.

Wait what. Why even bother with the jury, then?

[-relk-]

Originally posted by FixedGear
stupidest thing i've ever heard. fuck apple.
:werd:

Huge waste of time and money :facepalm:. I did not read the article, but from my previous understanding of the issue, it is based on generic design ideas (ie. big screen, home button, etc...). I may be wrong on that though.

Maybe Apple should stop being so greedy, this lawsuit only hurts their reputation, and the design conflicts (as I understand them) are not why people buy Apple products, therefore not hurting their current stronghold on the market.

[ZMan2k2]

^^ That's what I thought too. They are disputing the overall design characteristics of the device itself, not the OS. Seems like a silly thing, there's only so many ways you can make a tablet or phone. Samsung, according to the article, is making the claim that Apple stole the design idea for the iPhone from Sony, who was making bar phones long before Apple jumped into the market. And Apple is claiming that Samsung is copying their designs for their phones. Almost seems childish. I wonder if Jobs had anything to do with this, or if the new CEO is searching for a new money stream?

[Kavy]

Apple really needs to start stepping up their products instead of spending all their time in the court room. The original Iphone was amazing, every single version after that has been a joke in terms of forward momentum.

25% of the parts in an IPhone are made by Samsung. Apple would not even have an IPhone if it wasn't for Samsung.

Don't get me wrong apple makes some very nice overpriced tech but the thinking that you can patent every single consumer product on the market is getting old.

[BerserkerCatSplat]

Originally posted by ZMan2k2
I wonder if Jobs had anything to do with this, or if the new CEO is searching for a new money stream?

According to the bio, before he died Jobs swore he would spend his last breath and every last penny of Apple's money to destroy Android via constant lawsuits.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-15400984
http://www.dailytech.com/Steve+Jobs+Im+Going+to+Destroy+Android+Because+Its+a+Stolen+Product/article23077.htm

He ran out of breaths, but Apple's still got lots of cash to throw at this.

[Zephyr]

Originally posted by Kavy
Apple really needs to start stepping up their products instead of spending all their time in the court room. The original Iphone was amazing, every single version after that has been a joke in terms of forward momentum.

25% of the parts in an IPhone are made by Samsung. Apple would not even have an IPhone if it wasn't for Samsung.

Don't get me wrong apple makes some very nice overpriced tech but the thinking that you can patent every single consumer product on the market is getting old.

In reality it's the patent system that is broken that even allows companies to patent certain things that are viewed as universal. Apple is simply just backing something that the patent office allowed them to have in the first place. If the patent system was fixed, then we wouldn't have this problem.

Yes their parts are made by Samsung Semiconductor, a separate division/company. Samsung mobile has to do the same and bid for parts with Samsung Semiconductor, just as Apple does.

[BerserkerCatSplat]

Originally posted by Zephyr


In reality it's the patent system that is broken that even allows companies to patent certain things that are viewed as universal.

This one is my favourite. (http://www.google.com/patents?id=T2QKAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4#v=onepage&q&f=false)

[1barA4]

Someone else posted this in the original thread a few months ago

http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/apple-we-totally-invented-slide-to-unlock.png

[Xtrema]

Base on Apple's theory, HP should sue Apple for huge amount of $ too.

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z241/expeditioncampers/mobile%20internet%20devices/Compaq_iPAQ_3630.jpg

[Kloubek]

I can just see this now....

"Kia sued for copying Ford's circular tire design."
"Lays sued by Old Dutch for producing a potato-shaped chip."
"Apple sued by IBM for developing a personal computer."

The possibilities are endless....

[frizzlefry]

Palm should come back from the dead and sue everyone.

[supe]

Surprised no one here is pro apple. The thing is this was apples strategy all along, they patented the crap out of the iphone and now are leveraging the patent system to muscle out the competition, all the while making LOTS of enemies along the way.

It will be interesting to see how this pans out.

[Zephyr]

Originally posted by Kloubek
I can just see this now....

"Kia sued for copying Ford's circular tire design."
"Lays sued by Old Dutch for producing a potato-shaped chip."
"Apple sued by IBM for developing a personal computer."

The possibilities are endless....

If there were patents on those, I'm sure they would of. Only reason this is getting attention is because Apple is doing so well, and some judges like the attention. Companies are somewhat obligated to protect their patents, if they don't, then why even have patents. Patent system is broken, and this is nothing but companies doing what they should do. After all, these are publicly traded companies and need to give results to share holders. There's also other lawsuits among other handset makers, yet not much attention is on that.

Here's an excellent article written by an actual IP lawyer:
http://www.theverge.com/2012/7/30/3199424/apple-vs-samsung-trial-guide

[dr_jared88]

I can't see how this will benefit Apple in anyway. It appears the vast majority think Apple is retarded for even bothering. Even if they win the suit, the negative press is going to hurt them more then what they'll gain.

On top of all this, I think most of realize their "innovative ideas" are typically nothing more then a renamed idea of someone elses. Just because you give something existing a fancy new name doesn't mean you invented it...

I used to be a big fan of Apple but now there is not one product out there I care to have. Everything they have, someone else has with more features, better specs at a better price point.

[Zephyr]

Originally posted by dr_jared88
I can't see how this will benefit Apple in anyway. It appears the vast majority think Apple is retarded for even bothering. Even if they win the suit, the negative press is going to hurt them more then what they'll gain.

On top of all this, I think most of realize their "innovative ideas" are typically nothing more then a renamed idea of someone elses. Just because you give something existing a fancy new name doesn't mean you invented it...

I used to be a big fan of Apple but now there is not one product out there I care to have. Everything they have, someone else has with more features, better specs at a better price point.

I haven't seen Apple say they invented something. The only thing they say is that they changed the way a certain existing item is done.

They changed the way tablets are seen now. They changed the way a smart phone operates. They changed our expectations on how a personal computer works. They have always been a company that strives on making products more accessible and friendlier to consumers.

What's wrong with them charging a premium. In any industry there is always a company charging more for something a competitor can sell for cheaper. If there is a market for it, then it will strive.

[sputnik]

Originally posted by Kavy
Apple really needs to start stepping up their products instead of spending all their time in the court room.

This.

I will give Apple credit for pushing the smartphone industry to new heights. However what is really that much different between the original iPhone and the iPhone 4S?

At the end of the day the only improvements were simple upgrades to things like processor speed, camera megapixels and screen resolution. Not exactly any new innovation here.

[arian_ma]

Steve Jobs was butthurt from day one over Bill Gates and Microsoft, and he took that to the grave with him, and in the process built a company full of resentment towards every other company.

Apple is like the Israel of the tech world: full of geniuses who are too proud of themselves to realize they are making themselves look horrible in front of the rest of the world.

[dr_jared88]

Originally posted by Zephyr


I haven't seen Apple say they invented something. The only thing they say is that they changed the way a certain existing item is done.

They changed the way tablets are seen now. They changed the way a smart phone operates. They changed our expectations on how a personal computer works. They have always been a company that strives on making products more accessible and friendlier to consumers.

What's wrong with them charging a premium. In any industry there is always a company charging more for something a competitor can sell for cheaper. If there is a market for it, then it will strive.

I never said there is a problem charging a premium or that they won't survive. I just believe their days of dominating the mobile market is going to quickly diminish if they don't change something soon.

The mobile market isn't like say the automobile market. Selling high priced disposable electronic devices (which is pretty much what a mobile device is) is not going to survive the way a high end car will. At least after 5 years the high end car is still worth something.

On top of all this, newer devices are rapidly catching Apple and now there are numerous devices for about half the price of an Apple that do nearly everything equal or better then the Apple.

They are riding off their name and unless they change something they could very likely end up like RIM. The only thing that is holding RIM up is their corporate infrastructure that so many companies are invested in. I don't know if Apple has quite this same life line.

[codetrap]

Originally posted by dr_jared88
I can't see how this will benefit Apple in anyway. It appears the vast majority think Apple is retarded for even bothering. Even if they win the suit, the negative press is going to hurt them more then what they'll gain.

On top of all this, I think most of realize their "innovative ideas" are typically nothing more then a renamed idea of someone elses. Just because you give something existing a fancy new name doesn't mean you invented it...

I used to be a big fan of Apple but now there is not one product out there I care to have. Everything they have, someone else has with more features, better specs at a better price point. 2Billion dollars + destroying your competition VS some negative press.

I'll take "Show me the money" for 2Billion please Alex.

[Toma]

Fuck apple.

The last apple product I owned, besides one gifted Ipod, was an apple IIc.

Always gotta try and muddy the water with their non standard, proprietary bullshit, and now they wanna sue Samsung for making rectangular thin phones? What? They didnt try and patent rectangular thin monitors, or keyboards? The whole fucking world is rectangles for fuck sakes.

Good grief.

If someone gave me an Iphone, I would sell it even before this fiasco.

It is mind boggling what a doped out of his skull hippy managed to create though. That is amazing.

[dr_jared88]

Originally posted by codetrap
2Billion dollars + destroying your competition VS some negative press.

I'll take "Show me the money" for 2Billion please Alex.

If they end up with 2 billion plus Samsung no longer exists after this, then by all means it's worth it. However I see this as a very very unlikely result of the lawsuit.

[SmAcKpOo]

How is the jury formulated in this case? If it consists of our peers I wonder how many hipster brainwashed Apple users will be in it.

[rage2]

Originally posted by SmAcKpOo
How is the jury formulated in this case? If it consists of our peers I wonder how many hipster brainwashed Apple users will be in it.
If you understand the court process, I'm sure that Samsung lawyers have dismissed jurors that are "hipster brainwashed Apple users". :rofl:

Samsung won't go away after this. Apple is only going after specific products that look really close to the iPhone/iPad.

[kenny]

Originally posted by rage2
Apple is only going after specific products that look really close to the iPhone/iPad.

25 of them :rofl:

[Seth1968]

Originally posted by Xtrema
Base on Apple's theory, HP should sue Apple for huge amount of $ too.

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z241/expeditioncampers/mobile%20internet%20devices/Compaq_iPAQ_3630.jpg

I did a double take when I saw this, then nearly fell over when I found out it wasn't a joke.

[Toma]

Originally posted by Seth1968


I did a double take when I saw this, then nearly fell over when I found out it wasn't a joke.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPAQ

no Joke. lol. My dad loved these things. I think he still has one or two lol

[Seth1968]

Originally posted by Toma


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPAQ

no Joke. lol. My dad loved these things. I think he still has one or two lol

So Compaq iPAQ then Apple iPod...WTF?

Why didn't Compaq sue?

[LollerBrader]

Originally posted by Seth1968


I did a double take when I saw this, then nearly fell over when I found out it wasn't a joke.

A joke?

One of the most popular pdas in the early-to-mid 2000s.

Great PDAs, but Windows mobile made the devices increasingly useless.

They were actually made by HTC, until HTC built up enough experience to break out on their own.

[HyperZell]

http://phandroid.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/original-1.jpg

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by Seth1968


So Compaq iPAQ then Apple iPod...WTF?

Why didn't Compaq sue?

For one, original iPod has no touch screen and strictly a music device and is nothing like an iPAQ.

iPod touch is on the scene almost 7-8 years behind iPAQ in form and function.

The failure of iPAQ is caused by Microsoft's inability to adopt Windows for the touchscreen world. Window CE is not a bad OS but the GUI is just retarded.

Most iPAQ these days are limited to business use. Mostly for warehouse scanners or any type of business software that too costly to rewrite for other platforms like the iPod Touch/iPhone.

HP acquired Compaq but retired the brand years later. iPAQ is the only legacy reference to the old company.


Originally posted by HyperZell
http://phandroid.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/original-1.jpg

Only a tech retard will fall for that argument.

Every car has a windshield, steering wheel and 2 paddles.

[Seth1968]

Xtrema,

I was referring to the name.

BTW- Ditto on the car analogy.

[Seth1968]

Originally posted by Xtrema
Only a tech retard will fall for that argument.



You've just described the judge and jury.

[Toma]

Motorola a1000

Technology has allowed bigger screens, thinner phones, cleaner layouts, better touch screens, very thin Li Ion batteries etc. It's a natural progression.

http://www.cellular.co.za/phones/motorola/2004/motorola-A1000.jpg

[Seth1968]

Originally posted by Toma
Motorola a1000

Technology has allowed bigger screens, thinner phones, cleaner layouts etc. It's a natural progression.

http://www.cellular.co.za/phones/motorola/2004/motorola-A1000.jpg

Agreed.

Fuck Apple. They patent evolution, then sue for humans naturally evolving.

[JRSC00LUDE]

Originally posted by Xtrema
Only a tech retard will fall for that argument.

Every car has a windshield, steering wheel and 2 paddles.

Not this car. This car has many paddles.

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l147/JRSC00LUDE/paddle.jpg

[Toma]

Samsung's phone prototypes that predated the Iphone. The bottom one on the right was originally named in Apples lawsuit, until they learned it came first, so they dropped that one from the case.

http://osnews.com/img/26230/s-phones.PNG

http://www.osnews.com/story/26230/Samsung_reveals_its_pre-iPhone_concepts_10_touchscreen_devices

[89s1]

Originally posted by Xtrema


Every car has a windshield, steering wheel and 2 paddles.

My car doesn't have paddles in it unless I'm going to or coming from a bow float.

[Seth1968]

I'm full of WTF's lol...

The judge can override the jury's verdict if she think it's wrong. WWWWWTTTTTTFUUUUUCKKK.



U.S. District Judge Lucy Koh in San Jose last month ordered Samsung to pull its Galaxy 10.1 computer tablet from the U.S. market pending the outcome of the trial, though the judge barred Apple attorneys from telling the jurors about the ban.

So guilty without trial based on one person, and the company loses billions. How the fuck can such a decision be made in what we call a "democracy"?

On a side note in regards to Apple: I've been in the computer repair industry for about 15 years. It's marketing propaganda that sells Apple products, as the same can be had for 1/2 to 1/3 of the price. Ditto on repair costs.

Don't even get me started on the myth that Apple computers are more reliable.

[SKR]

Originally posted by Seth1968
I'm full of WTF's lol...

The judge can override the jury's verdict if she think it's wrong. WWWWWTTTTTTFUUUUUCKKK.


I don't think that's new. I saw it on an episode of Law & Order once.

[5000Audi]

Originally posted by 89s1


My car doesn't have paddles in it unless I'm going to or coming from a bow float.


He probably ment foot peddles, and probably posted from his iPhone and the useless autocorrect got him!!

[msommers]

He probably doesn't give two ducks about it.

[Weapon_R]

Originally posted by Seth1968
I'm full of WTF's lol...

The judge can override the jury's verdict if she think it's wrong. WWWWWTTTTTTFUUUUUCKKK.



Yes. A judge can override a jury when it is so obvious that the jury got it wrong. It almost never happens, but its possible.

[sputnik]

Originally posted by HyperZell
http://phandroid.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/original-1.jpg

All that indicates is a shift towards full touchscreens and the colour black.

Please explain how to make a smartphone with a full touchscreen look that much different than an iPhone.

[Unknown303]

Originally posted by sputnik


All that indicates is a shift towards full touchscreens and the colour black.

Please explain how to make a smartphone with a full touchscreen look that much different than an iPhone.

Make it an orb completely covered in touch screen...

[dr_jared88]

Originally posted by sputnik


All that indicates is a shift towards full touchscreens and the colour black.

Please explain how to make a smartphone with a full touchscreen look that much different than an iPhone.

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTjap9ivxsQlDn3Dth6Vg6dcFRAO-it9snpI_uByC4B055ONAkO-NfdDJ38zQ

[ZenOps]

Didn't dolby try to patent the aspect ratio of 2.35:1? I think Hong Kong took out a patent on coins with scalloped edges (as opposed to round)

Patenting rectangles, yeah - might as well flush all the money down to the lawyers now.

[Feruk]

I'm confused. You can patent inventions, not the way products look...

I hope Apple's got a cool new product coming out for their sake. Currently I only own their Ipod, and rather than getting an Ipad, I'm looking to see what the Microsoft tablet is gonna be like. If they don't have something new coming out soon, they might start heading the way of RIM. Something new isn't this "Apple TV." Saw that, looked like crap.

[lilmira]

I'm applying for a patent on my table with built-in tooth picks which is a unique invention. I'm gonna sue everybody mothafucka.

[supe]

The word is Motorola and other legitimate phone manufacturers own many of the patents around LTE which is one reason why Apple hasn't put it in their phones yet. Its going to be interesting if Apple rolls the dice or works a deal for LTE in their next phone.

[Kavy]

Originally posted by Feruk
If they don't have something new coming out soon, they might start heading the way of RIM.

I don't think Apple will ever get to that point as they are normally only 1 generation behind the competition in hardware where as Blackberries are a good 3-4.

Apple believes in the idea that you don't have to be the fastest, smartest, or strongest horse in the race, just be the prettiest.

People will always be interested in pretty over practical this has been a social standing since the dawn of time.

[Zephyr]

Originally posted by sputnik


All that indicates is a shift towards full touchscreens and the colour black.

Please explain how to make a smartphone with a full touchscreen look that much different than an iPhone.

Here's an example:
http://i.imgur.com/AirsP.jpg

The OS layout isn't similar to iOS. That's how you make a different phone.


Originally posted by Feruk
I'm confused. You can patent inventions, not the way products look...

Yes you can patent designs. This is thanks to our patent system, whether that should be allowed or not is another debate, and is something that the patent office should decide. Apple is simply just doing what is already legally allowed.


Originally posted by supe
The word is Motorola and other legitimate phone manufacturers own many of the patents around LTE which is one reason why Apple hasn't put it in their phones yet. Its going to be interesting if Apple rolls the dice or works a deal for LTE in their next phone.

iPad 3rd generation has LTE. I don't think your rumor is correct.

[HyperZell]

Originally posted by sputnik


All that indicates is a shift towards full touchscreens and the colour black.

Please explain how to make a smartphone with a full touchscreen look that much different than an iPhone.

I wasn't arguing for or against any side in this case, I was just posting a pic that I saw and found interesting.

Here's the latest. Samsung was ordered by a judge to withhold evidence that the f700 was conceived before Apple announced the iPhone. Samsung said "screw that" and released the documents to the media. Judge was choked, but didn't do anything about it:

http://www.slashgear.com/samsung-infuriates-apple-with-iphone-evidence-leak-01241146/

[Toma]

Originally posted by Zephyr


Here's an example:
http://i.imgur.com/AirsP.jpg

The OS layout isn't similar to iOS. That's how you make a different phone.



Yes you can patent designs. This is thanks to our patent system, whether that should be allowed or not is another debate, and is something that the patent office should decide. Apple is simply just doing what is already legally allowed.



iPad 3rd generation has LTE. I don't think your rumor is correct.

iOS looks exactly like Palm OS.

[Zephyr]

Originally posted by Toma


iOS looks exactly like Palm OS.

http://i.imgur.com/0yR1w.jpg

Kinda, but palm OS is more so tiles, which I thought was an awesome OS..just shitty hardware. Plus the Palm Pre form factor was basically a pebble. Where as Samsung use the same grid OS formation, similar icons, and the phone was shaped to be identical.

[Kavy]

Originally posted by Zephyr
Where as Samsung use the same grid OS formation, similar icons, and the phone was shaped to be identical.

I have had this discussion before in another thread where Android was attacked.

Grid formation, yes android is similar, but Nokia and Motorola was grid formation as well as Sony years before the Iphone existed, just wasn't touch.

Similar icons, see above argument. What should Samsung (android or Win7) do for a phone Icon? Have a picture of a cats face? There is really only 1 way to describe a phone app and that's by having an icon of a phone or text saying phone.

Shape, again see argument above. All phones are rectangle (except for a extremely small few). Motorola beat Apple to the punch with the same form factor and several of Samsung s designs predated the Iphone as is shown in previous posts in this thread.

I am not a Google or Samsung fan boy. I own an Ipod, Iphone and an Ipad.

I do however think that if Apple continues this stupid attempt to prevent any competition in the market by suing instead of making a better product they will start seeing a decrease in the "sheep" following they have.

[rage2]

I doubt the sheep cares. But ya, all this has to do with the fact that the patent office are idiots for granting design patents that Apple got.

The usability patents in the next case, however, will be more interesting.

[Toma]

^^^ Exactly as windows has been on PC. Little Icons, and since I can remember, under the arrange feature, you could always choose "align to grid"

Had apple sued Atari or Commodore, and later IBM and Microsoft back in the day for "copying" this sort of concept, woulda made more sense, however, that stems from formal logic, and even math that has always used symbols to represent objects, ideas, and thing.

It's fucking stupid right down to it's core.

[Zephyr]

Hardware design comparison:

http://peanutbuttereggdirt.com/e/custom/Apple-vs-Samsung-1-Hardware-Design.html

Design Interface comparison:

http://peanutbuttereggdirt.com/e/custom/Apple-vs-Samsung-2-Interface-Icons.html

Packaging comparison:

http://peanutbuttereggdirt.com/e/custom/Apple-vs-Samsung-3-Package-Design.html

I really do think that the patent system is broken and needs to be fixed as stated previously.

[rage2]

When you look at all 3 of those comparisons, it's a little more obvious that Samsung is trying to mimic Apple as close as they can, down to the packaging. That's more than a few similarities.

Still don't agree that it needs an epic court battle tho haha.

[kenny]

The Samsung retail stores are also complete copies of Apple Stores. Same tables with products laid out with information displayed on tablets. Staff in blue shirts and khakis. Quite amusing to see.

Even the Samsung lawyers couldn't tell the difference between an ipad and galaxy tab in court.

http://gizmodo.com/5849803/even-samsung-cant-tell-the-difference-between-its-tablet-and-ipad

[Zephyr]

Originally posted by rage2
When you look at all 3 of those comparisons, it's a little more obvious that Samsung is trying to mimic Apple as close as they can, down to the packaging. That's more than a few similarities.

Still don't agree that it needs an epic court battle tho haha.

I don't think this court stuff is needed too. But Apple is doing what they are legally entitled to. So go ahead and sue? lol

After all, it is a publicly traded company so maybe some stock holders will be happy with this...

I really just want to see Samsung make their own stuff...just like what Motorola does, Nokia, HTC, etc. Everyone has their own taste on their smart phone..but Samsung..not sure about that one.

[FixedGear]

I agree that the products are very similar, but as consumers, that is something that we should want. this is a good thing. competition is good. if something becomes an industry standard (like icons are now standard in most gui operating systems), all of the manufacturers have to adopt it or no one will buy the product. I could give a fuck who thought of the idea first.... I mean really, if Turing were alive do you think he would be bringing lawsuits against every single computing hardware maker??????

[Kavy]

Originally posted by Zephyr
Hardware design comparison:

http://peanutbuttereggdirt.com/e/custom/Apple-vs-Samsung-1-Hardware-Design.html

Design Interface comparison:

http://peanutbuttereggdirt.com/e/custom/Apple-vs-Samsung-2-Interface-Icons.html

Packaging comparison:

http://peanutbuttereggdirt.com/e/custom/Apple-vs-Samsung-3-Package-Design.html

I really do think that the patent system is broken and needs to be fixed as stated previously.

That is a great comparison by a guy who owns apple stock.


I 100% agree that the Galaxy line products from Samsung hardware wise look very similar to Apple. The icons are the same on all devices so that's a crap shoot on who copied who there.

The packaging is an interesting point as HTC also uses the same packaging for their phones (or at least the ones I have used). I wonder if apple will target them next?

Don't get me wrong im not saying Samsung is innocent here, the first 10-15 times I saw the original Galaxy S i thought it was an IPhone.

I agree the Patent system is screwed to all high heaven.

[Unknown303]

Originally posted by Zephyr
Hardware design comparison:

http://peanutbuttereggdirt.com/e/custom/Apple-vs-Samsung-1-Hardware-Design.html

Design Interface comparison:

http://peanutbuttereggdirt.com/e/custom/Apple-vs-Samsung-2-Interface-Icons.html

Packaging comparison:

http://peanutbuttereggdirt.com/e/custom/Apple-vs-Samsung-3-Package-Design.html

I really do think that the patent system is broken and needs to be fixed as stated previously.

Wow it's like that guy was high when comparing some of those icons.. similar sure, but he puts check marks besides some things that don't match the description at all.

[supe]

Originally posted by Zephyr


iPad 3rd generation has LTE. I don't think your rumor is correct.

Interesting, you're right about the iPad, maybe because its not a phone?

Anyway here is my source, you can debate with BGR themselves.

http://www.bgr.com/2012/06/08/samsung-apple-lte-patent-suit-analysis/

[ZEDGE]

Originally posted by kenny
The Samsung retail stores are also complete copies of Apple Stores. Same tables with products laid out with information displayed on tablets. Staff in blue shirts and khakis. Quite amusing to see.

Even the Samsung lawyers couldn't tell the difference between an ipad and galaxy tab in court.

http://gizmodo.com/5849803/even-samsung-cant-tell-the-difference-between-its-tablet-and-ipad

How else do you display products? Go into a Best Buy mobile.. or a Sony Store.. hell any retail store you will see products on tables.. So Apple has patents on tables now too? Give me a break.. Also blue is Samsung's color, always has been.. Apple has a patent on blue shirts???

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-1DfPZTQf7I0/TXuAekrvkCI/AAAAAAAAAr8/bUCLhiRQqhY/s1600/samsung-logo.jpg

Seriously screw this shit. and F Apple.

[rage2]

Originally posted by ZEDGE
How else do you display products? Go into a Best Buy mobile.. or a Sony Store.. hell any retail store you will see products on tables.. So Apple has patents on tables now too? Give me a break.. Also blue is Samsung's color, always has been.. Apple has a patent on blue shirts???

Seriously screw this shit. and F Apple.
Spoken like a true Apple hater haha.

Your points are somewhat valid, but, collectively speaking, it's very similar and confuses consumers. Look at how it looks, Best Buy or Sony Store looks nothing like this:

http://cdn.imore.com/sites/imore.com/files/styles/large/public/field/image/2012/07/Samsung%20Apple%20Store%20Rip%20Off.jpg

vs Apple Store:

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/7/2011/02/applestoredrug.jpg

http://www.imore.com/samsung-opens-its-first-retail-store-north-america-looks-awfully-apple-store

It's an Apple logo short of a China knockoff Apple store.

[Unknown303]

Originally posted by rage2

Spoken like a true Apple hater haha.

Your points are somewhat valid, but, collectively speaking, it's very similar and confuses consumers. Look at how it looks, Best Buy or Sony Store looks nothing like this:

http://cdn.imore.com/sites/imore.com/files/styles/large/public/field/image/2012/07/Samsung%20Apple%20Store%20Rip%20Off.jpg

vs Apple Store:

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/7/2011/02/applestoredrug.jpg

http://www.imore.com/samsung-opens-its-first-retail-store-north-america-looks-awfully-apple-store

It's an Apple logo short of a China knockoff Apple store.

But they still at least have Samsung plastered over almost every surface.

[Disoblige]

What about Windows Store in Seattle?

Blatant copy of Apple store

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7263/7002695878_559c667762_z.jpg

[D'z Nutz]

Haha watch out, Microsoft store!

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2634/4045219683_406bec6b04_z.jpg

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2629/4045959186_e76ef909ab_z.jpg

[FixedGear]

I don't think those stores look anything alike. :dunno: I mean, they both have neutral colors and concrete floors and now one is copying the other? according to that logic, Sears should be suing The Bay... i mean, the bay has carpet and clothes racks too. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Disoblige]

Beat you :rofl:

But yeah. I think in the mall version, it's also like 2-3 doors away from the actual apple store too.

[rage2]

The store isn't part of the case. But it does go to show that Samsung tried to copy Apple all the way from product, to interface, to packaging, to retail.

[supe]

Originally posted by rage2
The store isn't part of the case. But it does go to show that Samsung tried to copy Apple all the way from product, to interface, to packaging, to retail.

I think the point is that the interface, the packaging and the retail are not proprietary, I commend Apple for creating a business model that works, but its nothing revolutionary and arguably not patentable.

In every other industry all competitors market package and deliver products in all the same way, why should it be any different in the mobile market?

[rage2]

Ya, all conversation pieces, that's all. Collectively, when you step back and look at it, it's pretty blatant, but you're right, packaging and retail are not patentable, and hence not part of the case.

The only patents in question are physical design, home screen design, and parts of the interface are before the courts. Patents are fucked, no different than Amazon's 1 click, which incidently, Apple pays licensing fees to Amazon to use that on their online store.

[Zephyr]

Originally posted by supe


I think the point is that the interface, the packaging and the retail are not proprietary, I commend Apple for creating a business model that works, but its nothing revolutionary and arguably not patentable.

In every other industry all competitors market package and deliver products in all the same way, why should it be any different in the mobile market?

No the actual point is that Samsung is trying to copy and ride the iPhone and iPad train.

The words iPhone, iPad are starting to be like Kleenex and Xerox. Here in the states, Kleenex and Xerox are two brands, but people use them as slang for any of the same category product. iPod is the same, when someone wants an mp3 player, they say "get an iPod".

These days when people think of tablets they think of iPads, even if that Samsung Tab isn't an iPad, it is that "iPad like thingy". So instead, lets just make it look similar, because we might be able to catch a portion of the market that doesn't know or care to know the differences, they just want the item. Old people do this all the time, uninformed teens do this, etc.

So screw it, instead of being innovative and make our own methods, designs, etc, lets just ride this hot gravy train.

Nokia phones look different, Motorola phones look different, Blackberry is different etc. Why can't Samsung?

The box designs were just to show Samsung knows exactly what it is doing.

[Kavy]

Originally posted by Zephyr

So screw it, instead of being innovative and make our own methods, designs, etc, lets just ride this hot gravy train.



I agree with a lot of what you are saying except this.

Apple has made its fortune taking something that was already in existence and making it pretty/upscale. Nothing wrong with it at all its just very pot-kettle.

[Zephyr]

Originally posted by Kavy


I agree with a lot of what you are saying except this.

Apple has made its fortune taking something that was already in existence and making it pretty/upscale. Nothing wrong with it at all its just very pot-kettle.

A4, A5 A5X chips are all blue printed and designed in house by Apple, and contracted out to Samsung Semiconductor to manufacture. Apple uni body aluminum cases are designed in house by Apple and contracted out to Foxconn to machine and make. Just because they don't manufacture the parts, doesn't mean they didn't design it. It's not feasible to construct a large manufacturing infrastructure when they can simply contract it out to existing companies with very capable systems.

Yes there are many Apple machines that use components from other companies, Intel chip sets, memory chips, hard drive, graphics chipsets. But I do know that chip sets they use are different from the rest of the industry due to their OS and also their own requirements, so everything is "tweeked" along side Apple engineers. I have quite a few friends that work for component companies, and three of them deal with this daily.

[Markll7]

I'm really interested to see how the outcome of this affects Apple's and Samsung's manufacturing relationship.

[Zephyr]

Originally posted by Markll7
I'm really interested to see how the outcome of this affects Apple's and Samsung's manufacturing relationship.

Nothing will happen. Samsung Semiconductor and Samsung Mobile are two separate independent divisions. Samsung isn't the only manufacturer in the world either.

[Kavy]

Originally posted by Zephyr


A4, A5 A5X chips are all blue printed and designed in house by Apple, and contracted out to Samsung Semiconductor to manufacture. Apple uni body aluminum cases are designed in house by Apple and contracted out to Foxconn to machine and make. Just because they don't manufacture the parts, doesn't mean they didn't design it. It's not feasible to construct a large manufacturing infrastructure when they can simply contract it out to existing companies with very capable systems.


Your post completely backs up what I said in my post. Apple made its fortune taking something already in existence and making it pretty/upscale.

So they made their own chip design, they didn't invent the CPU they only engineered it to work strongly with their devices.
They didnt invent the unibody design they made it sturdy and attractive even tho HTC, Sony, Motorola and nokia have all used unibody designs for many many years

I have a feeling this thread will go downhill as most threads that involve apple vs ______.



*on a side note I do agree design wise Samsung took the leader in the industry and put together a near identical looking lineup.

[Zephyr]

Originally posted by Kavy


Your post completely backs up what I said in my post. Apple made its fortune taking something already in existence and making it pretty/upscale.

So they made their own chip design, they didn't invent the CPU they only engineered it to work strongly with their devices.
They didnt invent the unibody design they made it sturdy and attractive even tho HTC, Sony, Motorola and nokia have all used unibody designs for many many years

I have a feeling this thread will go downhill as most threads that involve apple vs ______.



*on a side note I do agree design wise Samsung took the leader in the industry and put together a near identical looking lineup.

I'm talking about unibody laptops...which motorola, sony, htc and nokia don't have. I think sony might have one now as an ultrabook? Not 100% sure.

But what you said is basically Apple makes a computer, which everyone else does too, but they charge more. What I'm saying is that Apple makes a laptop but tweeks and also designs their own components.

Apple makes their own phone interface, designs the hardware style and interface icons. Samsung takes that style, and makes something similar to look somewhat identical, but has a different name. Why not just make your own and show me why your idea is better? That's what competition should be like.

I'll gladly use a Samsung phone if they came up with their own original ideas. I've had a Nokia Lumia for a little bit, that thing was decent.

[ZEDGE]

Originally posted by rage2

Spoken like a true Apple hater haha.

Your points are somewhat valid, but, collectively speaking, it's very similar and confuses consumers. Look at how it looks, Best Buy or Sony Store looks nothing like this:

[im]http://cdn.imore.com/sites/imore.com/files/styles/large/public/field/image/2012/07/Samsung%20Apple%20Store%20Rip%20Off.jpg[/img]

vs Apple Store:

[im]http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/7/2011/02/applestoredrug.jpg[/img]

http://www.imore.com/samsung-opens-its-first-retail-store-north-america-looks-awfully-apple-store

It's an Apple logo short of a China knockoff Apple store.

How does it confuse consumers? What kind of an idiot walks into a "Samsung" store full of Samsung products thinking they are buying an ipad? Apple must think their customers are complete morons.. oh wait. ;)

[Toma]

Originally posted by Zephyr


I'm talking about unibody laptops...which motorola, sony, htc and nokia don't have. I think sony might have one now as an ultrabook? Not 100% sure.

But what you said is basically Apple makes a computer, which everyone else does too, but they charge more. What I'm saying is that Apple makes a laptop but tweeks and also designs their own components.

Apple makes their own phone interface, designs the hardware style and interface icons. Samsung takes that style, and makes something similar to look somewhat identical, but has a different name. Why not just make your own and show me why your idea is better? That's what competition should be like.

I'll gladly use a Samsung phone if they came up with their own original ideas. I've had a Nokia Lumia for a little bit, that thing was decent.

"Unibody laptop"?? Like what the US military invented/developed?

What is your answer for the Samsung F700 that came before the Iphone?

Nothing Apple came up with in terms of phones is strictly novel.

Apple certainly does not build their own components either.

And then size.... Apple screens are lagging in size. Should someone patent screens over 4" on phones then Sue apple before it builds their new Iphone?

All still stupid.

[Zephyr]

Originally posted by Toma


"Unibody laptop"?? Like what the US military invented/developed?

What is your answer for the Samsung F700 that came before the Iphone?

Nothing Apple came up with in terms of phones is strictly novel.

Apple certainly does not build their own components either.

And then size.... Apple screens are lagging in size. Should someone patent screens over 4" on phones then Sue apple before it builds their new Iphone?

All still stupid.

Last time I checked, the US military used pretty beefy IBM laptops that were not uni body aluminum, but were heavy duty plastic of some sort.

I posted links that contain the F700 too :)

Honestly someone can probably patent a 4" screen and sue. Our US patent system would allow that easily.

[Unknown303]

Originally posted by Zephyr


Last time I checked, the US military used pretty beefy IBM laptops that were not uni body aluminum, but were heavy duty plastic of some sort.

I posted links that contain the F700 too :)

Honestly someone can probably patent a 4" screen and sue. Our US patent system would allow that easily.

I'm a little jealous I didn't patent a bunch of brutally obvious generic ideas so I could get paid.

Like having the icon for making phone calls being a picture of a phone... :banghead:

[Toma]

Originally posted by Unknown303


I'm a little jealous I didn't patent a bunch of brutally obvious generic ideas so I could get paid.

Like having the icon for making phone calls being a picture of a phone... :banghead: :rofl:

[Toma]

Originally posted by Toma
LOL.... the 1968 movie "2001 a Space Odyssey" shows an 'Ipad' in use ;) Fucking Apple should sue them too! :poosie:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f3/2001interview.jpg

[rage2]

Originally posted by ZEDGE
How does it confuse consumers? What kind of an idiot walks into a "Samsung" store full of Samsung products thinking they are buying an ipad? Apple must think their customers are complete morons.. oh wait. ;)
There's lots of uninformed consumers out there, not everyone is a techno-nerd like we are. Best Buy complained that people were buying Samsung products and returning them because they thought they bought an iPad. That's evidence in the case.

Fact is, kid wants an iPad, grandma goes to buy it and gets a Samsung one thinking it's the same thing. Guarantee you it happens everyday.

[Unknown303]

Originally posted by rage2

There's lots of uninformed consumers out there, not everyone is a techno-nerd like we are. Best Buy complained that people were buying Samsung products and returning them because they thought they bought an iPad. That's evidence in the case.

Fact is, kid wants an iPad, grandma goes to buy it and gets a Samsung one thinking it's the same thing. Guarantee you it happens everyday.

But that's how old people always are about everything. You tell them you want something specific and they turn around and buy something that costs less but fits into the same category. Like asking for an Xbox or PS3 and winding up with a Wii.

[btimbit]

Hey Apple, how about making some new products. And I don't mean a "new" iphone that is just slightly thinner and has all the same features.

Apple, the next RIM for sure. Riding out past accomplishments for as long as possible before somehow running out of money.

[Eleanor]

Originally posted by Toma
Apple certainly does not build their own components either. Very few people build "their own" stuff anymore. Crack open any modern electronic device, how many names on the components inside match the name on the outside?

And then size.... Apple screens are lagging in size. The reason they haven't made bigger screens is because of one handed usage: http://gizmodo.com/5847981/this-is-why-the-iphones-screen-will-always-be-35-inches

As for the whole battle, is Apple being a bully? Yes, undoubtedly so; however as already mentioned, the real culprit is the US patent system. It's so broken in the tech world that anyone can sue anyone else for almost anything.

[Unknown303]

Originally posted by Eleanor
The reason they haven't made bigger screens is because of one handed usage: http://gizmodo.com/5847981/this-is-why-the-iphones-screen-will-always-be-35-inches


LOL at people with small hands. I have the SII and can touch anywhere on the screen with one hand.