OMG I actually won a tournament on pokerstars!

[dflamzer]

Had to share it with the world. Been playing sit and go's and a few tournaments on a nightly basis and finally finally end up winning one.

$15 Holdem NL - 180 entrants. First place prize $795.

I have to say having won this I can see what goes into winning a tournament is a combination of luck, timing and the right cards.

I owe the win to a KK hand I got and somehow ended up getting the chip leader at the time to call and another guy to call both holding AQ and AJ. Luckily no Ace and I took a huge lead that I never really lost.

That being said how many of you here play on the site and do many of you win tournaments or is this a pretty rare occurence?


Up until now I had hit the final table at the 180 player tournaments maybe half a dozen or so times. From what I'm looking at I've been in the money in 12% of the 160 tournaments I've played in. Have to admit this totally gave me a lot more faith...

[Jetta-2.0]

its a nice feeling winning any thing in my book lol

[Type_S1]

I hate pokerstars (I 100% believe the odds are fked and games can be rigged by mods) but sometimes still do play on it.

From my spreadsheet I cash from 20-25% of the time in tournys (all of them added up, different player counts). I like playing live more because it cuts down the random "swings" of luck I feel pokerstars has.

Sounds like you are doing alright as long as you are up $$. I log my hours, investment, cash's etc to see if playing is even worth my time. I have done alright in the last year with Live+online mixed but overall I am trying to cut down because of the frustration and stress that sometimes come with it haha.

Edit: I do not usually win tournaments...I have only won 4 tourny's online in the last year. Not a very good stat haha.

[dflamzer]

I'd figure the odds of winning actual tournaments on a consistent basis wouldn't be that good. I think your odds of going far though increase drastically if you are able to double or triple up early so you aren't sitting all in more than you need to be.

I used to think the same thing with pokerstars as the swings were so bad, I mean so damn bad. I realized more and more it was just the cards I was playing with and the fact I thought hands like AJ and A8 were really good lol.

I played in the tournament at grey eagle this past week, the big $300 once a month tournament. I was one of the first eliminated on a horrible set of circumstances which leads me to believe online and live poker is just as random.

5th hand in at the grey eagle tournament I'm given pocket queens. Blinds are still minimum so how the heck do you get value.

I raised 5 BBs just to get something, and low and behold 4 callers... WTF I'm thinking....

Flop.

K clubs, 3 diamonds, J spades.

All I'm thinking is one of these guys has a K. They all check. I bet out a 10 BB raise. All but one guy folds. I instantly think he has the AK or KJ or AJ or something along those lines.

Turn card. Q clubs....

I get my set. Boy I'm happy but I don't want to scare him off. So I bet 20 BBs. He doesn't even hesitate calling....

So I'm confused, did he hit a straight or something?

River is the J clubs...

Jubiliation is going through me. I have a full house. How the fark can I lose. I'm thinking well he could have a straight, could have a flush, well, could have pocket jacks, but I think no chance in that.

I shove, he instantly calls.

Dealler calls out full house and straight. The other player instantly says, NO, its a straight flush.

The guy literally pulled runner runner for a straight flush all while giving me the exact cards I would have wanted.

Ever since that I can no longer view live and online as being different. They are literally the same.

[dflamzer]

Beginning to wonder what's going on. I've won 6 straight $100 HU sit and go's since winning this tournament. All the sudden the cards love me!

[JLau]

just know when to push your luck and when to back down..or you will end up giving it all back, thats all i have to say

[sexualbanana]

Originally posted by Type_S1
I hate pokerstars (I 100% believe the odds are fked and games can be rigged by mods) but sometimes still do play on it.

From my spreadsheet I cash from 20-25% of the time in tournys (all of them added up, different player counts). I like playing live more because it cuts down the random "swings" of luck I feel pokerstars has.

Sounds like you are doing alright as long as you are up $$. I log my hours, investment, cash's etc to see if playing is even worth my time. I have done alright in the last year with Live+online mixed but overall I am trying to cut down because of the frustration and stress that sometimes come with it haha.

Edit: I do not usually win tournaments...I have only won 4 tourny's online in the last year. Not a very good stat haha.

20-25% is a pretty good cash rate in tournaments. The swings you mention are just as pronounced live as they online. I've had shitty online swings that have lasted weeks (which is months online), and vice-versa.

The thing I've found with online is that my swings are more psychologically bearable because the hands move faster. In the time it takes me to fold 25 straight shitty hands pre-flop live, I would've probably had 2 or 3 playable hands online in that same time frame because I would've played hands at 4x the rate online.

[dflamzer]

I take it all back now after getting royally screwd last night. I mean ROYALLY. Playing in the $162 nightly fifty grand. Things are going well. I'm sitting top 10 in chips 3 hours into it. So around 60 players remain at this point. Top 36 places are paid. Top prize is 10k.

I get a pair of sixes in my big blind. Guy raises to 3 BB. I call.

Flop is...

6 4 Q

I start out with a 2 BB bet. He insta shoves....

I think for a few seconds. Did he just out flop me with a set? Certainly I think it's rare as all heck to see it happen.

I nearly max the timer out and call.

He shows a A J off suit. He's literally shoved with nothing. Absolutely nothing.

Then the fun, just how random can it be that somebody shoves with nothing and then proceeds to hit a K on the turn and a 10 on the river for a straight. Quite literally the only two outs he had.

I started looking at the odds and math on it and I got literally screwd. I really don't understand how some people just seem to know what cards are going to come. It's beyond amazing.

[CanmoreOrLess]

Originally posted by dflamzer
I take it all back now after getting royally screwd last night. I mean ROYALLY. Playing in the $162 nightly fifty grand. Things are going well. I'm sitting top 10 in chips 3 hours into it. So around 60 players remain at this point. Top 36 places are paid. Top prize is 10k.

I get a pair of sixes in my big blind. Guy raises to 3 BB. I call.

Flop is...

6 4 Q

I start out with a 2 BB bet. He insta shoves....

I think for a few seconds. Did he just out flop me with a set? Certainly I think it's rare as all heck to see it happen.

I nearly max the timer out and call.

He shows a A J off suit. He's literally shoved with nothing. Absolutely nothing.

Then the fun, just how random can it be that somebody shoves with nothing and then proceeds to hit a K on the turn and a 10 on the river for a straight. Quite literally the only two outs he had.

I started looking at the odds and math on it and I got literally screwd. I really don't understand how some people just seem to know what cards are going to come. It's beyond amazing.

Was he on a flush draw?

You can only do the right thing, which is what you did do. Remember you cannot hold your sane standards to those who are playing against you otherwise you'll go nuts. I'd make your call 100 times in 100, if the villain has pocket QQ so be it as this is the only hand killing me on the flop.

Lick your wounds, get back on the horse and have a short memory of the luck bucket.

[dflamzer]

No flush draw. It was a rainbow flop. I felt pretty safe with the exception as I mentioned being the pocket queens. I'm really lost for words on it all. My thinking is when your 3 hours into a tournament you stop making stupid moves.

So when somebody calls you 3X BB bet you'd understand they either have a pocket pair or an A + or two face cards. So for him to literally shove on that board was bordering on insanity.

I almost knew the second I saw that king on the turn that I was screwd. I mean well the guy now actually has 4 outs and go figure.

The real part I find odd about this is the guy was the chip leader by quite a good margin. I don't usually see chip leaders get that high up being that stupid lol.

[CanmoreOrLess]

Is he a winning player (I highly doubt it)? Check at PokerOptimizer or Sharkscope, etc.

[dflamzer]

There wasn't a lot of data on the name he had. Almost like he was a new player playing in a fairly big $162 entry tournament. It just seemed really fishy. I watched him for a good 30 minutes after I was knocked out and he was making odd ball calls and constantly hitting on the turn and river.

One hand in particular I watched him call a 5X BB bet with 9 7 off suit and he hit trip 9's on the flop against AK suited. I mean sure its great to get lucky cards but how does a person just know when to call at a stupid spot. He wasn't even in position lol.

[mugensix]

Once on pokerstars my pair ace lost to some guys full quad 2's boy was i mad! I never win :( good on ya!

[dandia89]

anytime i hear people complain about bad beats i just think about that video with ray romano where the guy lost quad aces to a royal flush

[dflamzer]

Except the Ray Romano video the guy physically had a reason to keep calling and when you hit quads you shouldn't be the aggressor as you really want your opponent to do all the damage themselves.

In this particular case it was literally drawing to a runner runner. I was around a 98% favorite on the flop. It doesn't really razz me as I'm up nearly $4,000 this week but still it was just the WTF aspect.

[Spoons]

Originally posted by dandia89
anytime i hear people complain about bad beats i just think about that video with ray romano where the guy lost quad aces to a royal flush

I've seen it happen a few times at the casino.

One was tough, guy had J of hearts J of diamonds other guy had K of spades and some garbage card I can't remember. Wasn't even a hand to play as I remember JJ came out hot pre-flop. But paid off.

Flop: A of spades - 10 of spades - J of spades

JJ obviously bit on this, and the guys with the K chased the royal flush at this point. I remember him betting heavy earlier which I thought was weird, but I don't think these guys were the greatest poker players either.

Turn: J of clubs

Quad jacks. I mean stupid not to play. I'm not the greatest poker player, but to me though I would have seen that MAYBE there is a royal flush out there. Quad jacks went all in and the K immediately called. I mean he is river chasing, but fuck it how often does it happen.

River: Q of spades

Guy hit on the river. Quad J Still won bad beat though, so he came out a winner. I think around 7 grand he won off that hand. I wasn't sitting at the table at the time, just watching which sucks cause everyone gets paid on bad beat. It was a fucking intense hand to watch though. People jumped out of their chairs after the river flipped.

[dflamzer]

Hit another top six finish this morning. Then while in another $15 sit and go tournament it happens again........


Down to 15 players. Always the chip leader, always for some reason. I'll never get it but whatever.

I get pocket 5's. I'm sitting 12/15 in the tournament so it's a shove situation. I just call to see the flop being a little cautious.

Flop.

5 10 10

I flop a full house.

I shove.

Other player thinks about it. Calls within about 2-3 seconds with..........

K Q off suit...

I'm like oh yeah, its mine. He'll need two runners.

Get this.... what are the bloody odds...

Turn.

10.

River 10.

Quads on board and his K players. Seriously unreal I tell you. At least I cashed on it but still a major WTF. Seem to find this in 25% of the tournaments I'm KO'd from.

I couldn't care that it happens. I accept it, but omg.


Currently sitting 1st in a tournament with over 5200 entrants 1 hour in. I must be doing something right.

[CanmoreOrLess]

Start posting these "Perfect Storm" villain hands using Boom! (hand sharing) on PS. You are running into some real head scratchers, I can see terrible players making the plays against you but players running late in a tournament (must have some skills) should not be able to have success in really bad odd hands.

Too bad Kobe was not on Beyond a bit more, I'd be interested to read his views.

[dflamzer]

Yeah I was reading the blog he had while he was still updating it. I find early on in the tournaments you see a lot of idiots and if you capitalize on it you can easily double or triple your chip stack. Just a matter of not playing stupid hands or making stupid bets.

I'm still just a novice I would say but I think I'm doing fairly well. Just about every tournament I've played in I've managed to crack the top 10 early on and then often sustain it past the bubble. In my books thats gotta be good lol.

Told my wife I'd really love to try the WSOP next year just for fun. I think it would be awesome to participate in even if nothing came out of it. In the last week though I've been in the money on 37% of the tournaments I've entered.

Could be I've started seeing things I was doing wrong and certain cards that honestly just work.

I'm still beside myself sorta on some of these hands I've seen. Not sure why but the players that do these odd ball shoves are always from Russia.

[-relk-]

Originally posted by Spoons
Guy hit on the river. Quad J Still won bad beat though, so he came out a winner. I think around 7 grand he won off that hand. I wasn't sitting at the table at the time, just watching which sucks cause everyone gets paid on bad beat. It was a fucking intense hand to watch though. People jumped out of their chairs after the river flipped.

What do you mean by everyone gets paid on a bad beat? The guy that lost the hand still got cash? I could imagine the commotion that hand would cause though, thats a once in a lifetime hand!

Anyone ever experience someone raging after a bad beat in the casino? I have never seen it, but I can imagine it happening. When I used to play PS a couple years ago, I would flip shit on bad beats from people who made stupid calls.

[colinxx235]

Originally posted by Spoons


I've seen it happen a few times at the casino.



Guy hit on the river. Quad J Still won bad beat though, so he came out a winner. I think around 7 grand he won off that hand. I wasn't sitting at the table at the time, just watching which sucks cause everyone gets paid on bad beat. It was a fucking intense hand to watch though. People jumped out of their chairs after the river flipped.

A "few times" really...?

I call BS on your story. Mainly because to win a bad beat BOTH hole cards have to be played. So I am not sure what you are referring to. That specific hand the guy is only playing his K of spades, so that is not a bad beat winning hand. Just shitty luck (assuming its true, which I doubt).

Sorry to deflate that one.

And I know this VERY well. Three summers back, had A/K, flop AAA, guy jammed me with queens, snap called. River hit a queen. His hole card was dead and he got screwed out of a monster pot. Both missed out on a max bad beat.

:devil:

[Kobe]

Originally posted by CanmoreOrLess
Start posting these "Perfect Storm" villain hands using Boom! (hand sharing) on PS. You are running into some real head scratchers, I can see terrible players making the plays against you but players running late in a tournament (must have some skills) should not be able to have success in really bad odd hands.

Too bad Kobe was not on Beyond a bit more, I'd be interested to read his views.

Sorry, in Europe and not checking beyond daily, but ya Poker is so rigged, everyone should just not play it.


PokerStars Hand #83740361567: Tournament #591292811, $57.67+$2.33 USD Hold'em No Limit - Match Round I, Level I (10/20) - 2012/07/23 13:03:05 ET
Table '591292811 1' 2-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: Tcarnage (1520 in chips)
Seat 2: piratepeaty (1480 in chips)
piratepeaty: posts small blind 10
Tcarnage: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Tcarnage [3c Kc]
piratepeaty: raises 40 to 60
Tcarnage said, "you have to admit, that play was pretty smooth? right?"
Tcarnage: calls 40
*** FLOP *** [6c 5c 8c]
Tcarnage: checks
piratepeaty: bets 90
Tcarnage: raises 130 to 220
piratepeaty: raises 560 to 780
Tcarnage: raises 680 to 1460 and is all-in
piratepeaty: calls 640 and is all-in
Uncalled bet (40) returned to Tcarnage
*** TURN *** [6c 5c 8c] [5s]
*** RIVER *** [6c 5c 8c 5s] [7c]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Tcarnage: shows [3c Kc] (a flush, King high)
piratepeaty: shows [2c 9c] (a straight flush, Five to Nine)
piratepeaty collected 2960 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 2960 | Rake 0
Board [6c 5c 8c 5s 7c]
Seat 1: Tcarnage (big blind) showed [3c Kc] and lost with a flush, King high
Seat 2: piratepeaty (button) (small blind) showed [2c 9c] and won (2960) with a straight flush, Five to Nine


OMG 1 outer.. OMG POKER ONLINE IS SO RIGGED,

Kidding obviously, but Piratepeaty and I hate each other, he is actually from Edmonton which made that hurt a little more..


Congrats on your win man, hope you win many more..

Any questions feel free to post in here and I'll check back in the thread..

On a sidenote a beyond member binked an MTT on stars for 60k ish awhile ago, plays for a living as well (at least used to)
Was a $55 tournament..

[Spoons]

Originally posted by colinxx235


A "few times" really...?

I call BS on your story. Mainly because to win a bad beat BOTH hole cards have to be played. So I am not sure what you are referring to. That specific hand the guy is only playing his K of spades, so that is not a bad beat winning hand. Just shitty luck (assuming its true, which I doubt).

Sorry to deflate that one.

And I know this VERY well. Three summers back, had A/K, flop AAA, guy jammed me with queens, snap called. River hit a queen. His hole card was dead and he got screwed out of a monster pot. Both missed out on a max bad beat.

:devil:

By a few, I mean twice. And you can call BS, I'm not trying to impress anyone by my sheer observation skills... It was an interesting story.

Bad beat at Cash doesn't need both hole cards to be played.

[colinxx235]

Originally posted by Spoons


By a few, I mean twice. And you can call BS, I'm not trying to impress anyone by my sheer observation skills... It was an interesting story.

Bad beat at Cash doesn't need both hole cards to be played.


Well I hear those stories all the time from new poker players and it is always easy to tell who is lying because its like "oh so you won 10 grand then?" and they stutter off, etc etc.

http://www.aglc.gov.ab.ca/pdf/handbooks/casino_terms_and_conditions.pdf

Section 10.3.14
Point l)

l) In order to qualify for the Bad Beat Poker Pot, a player
must hold at least a full house containing three (3) aces
and two (2) tens (or higher as set by House Rules) at the
showdown but loses to another player with four (4) of a
kind or better. (For Texas Hold’em, both cards in the
player’s hand must be used to make up his hand.)


I'll admit I don't play cash (cause its a shit hole). So maybe someone experienced like Kobe can input, but I don't see how a casino can ignore AGLC rules.... :dunno:

[CanmoreOrLess]

Originally posted by dflamzer
Told my wife I'd really love to try the WSOP next year just for fun. I think it would be awesome to participate in even if nothing came out of it. In the last week though I've been in the money on 37% of the tournaments I've entered.


What are you doing next week Aug. 22-Sept. 02?
2012 Canadian Open Poker Championships
$3.8 million in prize money on at The Deerfoot.

http://www.copc2012.com/index.html

[dflamzer]

Originally posted by Spoons


By a few, I mean twice. And you can call BS, I'm not trying to impress anyone by my sheer observation skills... It was an interesting story.

Bad beat at Cash doesn't need both hole cards to be played.

What casino do you play at? Most I know of do require both hole cards to qualify for a bad beat.

What you may or may not be realizing is quads no matter how you hit it, is quads. Three aces on the board is quads for a bad beat no matter what seeing as your second card acts as part of the quads.

For a straight flush though, you must have two cards of the straight flush for it qualify.


I wouldn't say rigged, it does appear some people make some awfully oddball decisions and some how hit miracle cards. So long as you win more than you lose right!

[colinxx235]

Originally posted by dflamzer


What casino do you play at? Most I know of do require both hole cards to qualify for a bad beat.

What you may or may not be realizing is quads no matter how you hit it, is quads. Three aces on the board is quads for a bad beat no matter what seeing as your second card acts as part of the quads.





Uhhh also wrong.... your kicker needs to play. Thats why when guys see those boards peel off they start cheering for super low cards and hoping that the guy with the Ace has a big kicker.
The AGLC pdf I posted explains it all. Both hole cards must be used no matter what the winning hand is. Which really sucks if you get counterfeited with it. Refer to my situation where the guy hit the Queen on the river. Only two cards ruined the bad beat, a king or a queen.

[dflamzer]

IF the board is AAA

and you have A 3

you have quads. Doesn't matter if you have AA and hit AA on the flop or if you have A 3 and hit AAA on the flop. It still is quads in a bad beat scenario.

The two card situation is only implied for a full house of aces or straight flushes and royal flushes. The quad situation actually makes it easier to hit it.

I had my first ever bad beat just weeks ago. By the way, to bet quads you need to be foolish. It's best to just sit back and let the other person do everything. The worst thing that can happen when you hit quads is that you'll make even more money.

[dflamzer]

Originally posted by colinxx235




Uhhh also wrong.... your kicker needs to play. Thats why when guys see those boards peel off they start cheering for super low cards and hoping that the guy with the Ace has a big kicker.
The AGLC pdf I posted explains it all. Both hole cards must be used no matter what the winning hand is. Which really sucks if you get counterfeited with it. Refer to my situation where the guy hit the Queen on the river. Only two cards ruined the bad beat, a king or a queen.


I know with certainty the rio in vegas doesn't require the kicker to play. So long as you have quads. I'd be shocked if other casinos were any different. The reason being your kicker doesn't make a single difference in quads. Whatsoever. It just happens to be the extra card you have.

[colinxx235]

^

I wasn't referring to Vegas or anywhere else. Because I know each province/state has their own set of gaming rules. I was calling out Spoons about his stories (not only the few times, due to extreme rarity) because a 1 card royal flush wouldn't give a bad beat.
In Alberta your quad aces require the kicker to play in order to get bad beat. You could win with A/3. Assuming the board is AAA22. Then other guy obviously need 10's, J's, Q's, K's.

[Spoons]

Originally posted by colinxx235



Well I hear those stories all the time from new poker players and it is always easy to tell who is lying because its like "oh so you won 10 grand then?" and they stutter off, etc etc.

http://www.aglc.gov.ab.ca/pdf/handbooks/casino_terms_and_conditions.pdf

Section 10.3.14
Point l)

l) In order to qualify for the Bad Beat Poker Pot, a player
must hold at least a full house containing three (3) aces
and two (2) tens (or higher as set by House Rules) at the
showdown but loses to another player with four (4) of a
kind or better. (For Texas Hold’em, both cards in the
player’s hand must be used to make up his hand.)


I'll admit I don't play cash (cause its a shit hole). So maybe someone experienced like Kobe can input, but I don't see how a casino can ignore AGLC rules.... :dunno:

I didn't win at all, just merely observing. I was sitting at another table and heard a commotion.

It could have happened differently, I'm recollecting events that happened years ago, but I promise truth.

[dflamzer]

Hard to say. I saw it at the rio and it was given out as quads vs a full house aces over jacks and they paid it when I was down there. I honestly can't recall the kicker he had though. The odds on the it playing are fairly good though for the most part.

[AaronK]

Congrats on the win, I 100% believe they rig it to have bigger hands to encourage bigger bets

[dflamzer]

Except it wouldn't make such sense in tournament play. Often a lot of the bigger hands you get aren't AK or AQ they are J 10, or 10 9 when you actually hit. It's fairly all over the place. I can tell that from that the tracking I've done on my hands. Sure KA or AA your most likely to win but often often a pair or two scenario where as the J 10 scenario spits out a lot of straights.

[dflamzer]

Originally posted by dflamzer
Except it wouldn't make such sense in tournament play. Often a lot of the bigger hands you get aren't AK or AQ they are J 10, or 10 9 when you actually hit. It's fairly all over the place. I can tell that from that the tracking I've done on my hands. Sure KA or AA your most likely to win but often often a pair or two scenario where as the J 10 scenario spits out a lot of straights.

Just for reference sake.

Against AA your not good having AK or AQ or whatever. The best hands to go up against AA with are actually hands like 7-8, 8-9 and 9-10. AA vs AK or AQ or KQ 9 times out of 10 is a win.

[Kobe]

Originally posted by dflamzer
Except it wouldn't make such sense in tournament play. Often a lot of the bigger hands you get aren't AK or AQ they are J 10, or 10 9 when you actually hit. It's fairly all over the place. I can tell that from that the tracking I've done on my hands. Sure KA or AA your most likely to win but often often a pair or two scenario where as the J 10 scenario spits out a lot of straights.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Graphs...

So much win in this thread...

Holy shit, this might have been one of the worst comments I have ever read in the history of reading about poker...

Play me heads up please..


Originally posted by Type_S1
I hate pokerstars (I 100% believe the odds are fked and games can be rigged by mods) but sometimes still do play on it.

From my spreadsheet I cash from 20-25% of the time in tournys (all of them added up, different player counts). I like playing live more because it cuts down the random "swings" of luck I feel pokerstars has.

Sounds like you are doing alright as long as you are up $$. I log my hours, investment, cash's etc to see if playing is even worth my time. I have done alright in the last year with Live+online mixed but overall I am trying to cut down because of the frustration and stress that sometimes come with it haha.

Edit: I do not usually win tournaments...I have only won 4 tourny's online in the last year. Not a very good stat haha.

If you are unblocked on Sharkscope i can give you exact % ITM on stars, broken down and everything..


Now my question is, do you think a company that brings in 1.4billion dollars a year in revenue gives a shit about your $1.

Do you think that a company that invests MILLIONS and has even taken hundreds of thousands from it's online pokerpro players for collusion gives a shit about your $2 in rake over one game, and need to "RIG" it for them to make more money?


Pokerstars just dished out 741million to buy out Full tilt poker for a poker licence for the USA, that's how rich they are...

[Kobe]

Originally posted by dflamzer


Just for reference sake.

Against AA your not good having AK or AQ or whatever. The best hands to go up against AA with are actually hands like 7-8, 8-9 and 9-10. AA vs AK or AQ or KQ 9 times out of 10 is a win.

Thanks Tips

AA vs AKs = 87.23% to 11.51%
AA vs AKo = 92.80% to 5:68%

AA vs JTs = 78.12% to 21.55%
AA vs JTo = 81.90% to 17.82


AA vs T9s = 77.07% to 22.61%
Etc etc you will see a pattern growing here


Now lets go

AKoff vs T9s = 58.61% vs 40.97%

As AA is the best hand possible in Poker, it is going to be a favorite very any two cards..

Can you now explain to me why the difference between

AA vs AK

and AA vs T9s is so large?

and being a 95% and 80% favorite preflop between does two is such a large difference?


Originally posted by dflamzer
Hard to say. I saw it at the rio and it was given out as quads vs a full house aces over jacks and they paid it when I was down there. I honestly can't recall the kicker he had though. The odds on the it playing are fairly good though for the most part.

Bad beat Jackpots are difference in the USA and Canada... and on online poker sites such as Partypoker...


/end discussion



There is also actually programs that calcuate "EV" (Expected value)

Programs such as Pokertracker 3 and 4 will show you your EV..


Here is the wikipedia link for the basis of how it works and is calculated.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expected_value

The beauty of this is, it works even when your hands do not go down to showdown and you do not see other players cards as well.

Not a topic I'm going to get into with you guys on beyond, but for any math kids it's actually a very interesting topic.

[dflamzer]

Against AA? The fewer face cards you have eliminate potential hands that would favor AA such as a K to 9 straight being drawn. That's why I was saying hands like 7-8, 8-9 and 9-10 are physically better heads up against AA. It simply increases the odds of you hitting a flush or a straight.

Not really sure what you mean of by the the 10 9 suited vs AK?

I know for instance there is set odds of either hand hitting a pair. The odds on a straight are physically higher with the 10 9 as you can hit a straight either way where as with AK you can't. You are also looking at a 6% chance of a flush with any suited card.

One of my favorite hands to play is actually J 10. I've seriously found the ROI on the hand is very high. Of course the percentage of winning hands isn't as higher but the overall return I've found to be great.

AA my stats show I am winning 83% of the time. I love AA obviously however....

I find people get really stupid with AA and don't know when to fold it.

[Spoons]

I don't think there is a point to argue with Kobe when he plays for a living...... And does quite well for himself doing so.

[C_Dave45]

Oh yay....more 'bad beat' discussions. Riveting.

[dflamzer]

No I'm not arguing. He was asking why 10 9 and such the odds get higher. I was simply answering.

And yes both cards must be used for the bad beat. There's a reason these pots get so high.

[dflamzer]

I think I just accidentally proved Kobe's stats right and almost pee'd myself at the same time.

I was sitting BB in the nightly fifty grand tournie. Literally 2nd or 3rd hand in. I had 8 6 off suit. Guy shoved. I hit the call button on accident thanks to my dog.

I shit myself to see AA. Literally flopped a straight. He did hit trip aces on the river but stil, kinda funny after having the same discussion.

[dflamzer]

First time I'd ever saw this today... Lucky I came out of it with the big win.

Playing in $13.50 KO tournament about 30 mins in.

I get QQ.

3 other people shove.... I think christmas....

AA

KK

JJ

Is this more a less a nightmare flop for all 4 of us since it's basically just luck of the draw? I would think for AA it would be a nightmare.

Flop.

7 8 Q

Turn

9

River

7

think I've seen AKQ on TV but never the top 4 pairs all going head to head.

[dandia89]

didn't want to make another thread for this... but i want to get back into online poker. i had some cash in fulltilt, but i guess its closed now. is there a way to get that money and whats the most common site these days?

[CanmoreOrLess]

Originally posted by dandia89
didn't want to make another thread for this... but i want to get back into online poker. i had some cash in fulltilt, but i guess its closed now. is there a way to get that money and whats the most common site these days?

Pokerstars has bought FT (last week it was formally announced), they ought to be up soon, Sept/Oct I would think, you can remove your cash or play as you wish. This all assumes you are playing outside the USA, online poker remains dead in the USA.

http://www.pokernews.com/news/2012/07/pokerstars-acquires-full-tilt-poker-assets-players-refunded-13146.htm

[Kobe]

Originally posted by CanmoreOrLess


Pokerstars has bought FT (last week it was formally announced), they ought to be up soon, Sept/Oct I would think, you can remove your cash or play as you wish. This all assumes you are playing outside the USA, online poker remains dead in the USA.

http://www.pokernews.com/news/2012/07/pokerstars-acquires-full-tilt-poker-assets-players-refunded-13146.htm

For now ;)


Why do you think Pokerstars dished out 700mill+ for Full tilt?
THey want to get a licence for the US

[sabad66]

All casinos in Calgary require you to use both hole cards for a bad beat, and you can't tie the board.

i.e.

A5 vs QQ, board AAA67 is NOT a bad beat (cuz your kicker with your quads would be the 7)
A5 vs QQ, board AAA45 is NOT a bad beat (cuz your kicker with your quads ties the 5 on the board)

[dflamzer]

Had my first real bad beat on pokerstars this morning. Final table at a tourney.

I had AA. Guy 3 bets me. I shove. He shows JJ.

Flop. J 3 J

Turn. A

River. 8

Seriously sick sick luck to see that kinda stuff happen.

[ringmaster]

I had a silly one yesterday playing a $15 sit and go.

I have AA and a few people fold after I raise 2 BB. One guy goes all in so I think "ok fine have it your way" and call.

He had me beat on the turn. Ended up getting a stupid straight with a bunch of low shitty cards. I just had to laugh.

[dflamzer]

The dumb call beats are a given. I played against one guy yesterday that seemed to know his card was coming on the turn and river. He'd call every time had had Q J or better and always hit on the turn and river. His luck ran out when he hit me against trip 2's. Makes you wonder sometimes though.

Saw a straight flush beat a straight flush earlier today at one of the $27 tournaments with fewer than 40 left. Both players used both hole cards to hit as well. Never thought I'd see it.

[Kobe]

Originally posted by dflamzer
The dumb call beats are a given. I played against one guy yesterday that seemed to know his card was coming on the turn and river. He'd call every time had had Q J or better and always hit on the turn and river. His luck ran out when he hit me against trip 2's. Makes you wonder sometimes though.

Saw a straight flush beat a straight flush earlier today at one of the $27 tournaments with fewer than 40 left. Both players used both hole cards to hit as well. Never thought I'd see it.

What's your stars nick? You need to move up limits to where they respect your raises, if you ever want to play $60 - $200 HU sngs with me feel free to PM me and we can set something up.

[dflamzer]

I'm only playing a lot of mid level stuff. I don't know why but when I playing for anything more than $100 online the way I play totally changes. Even when I play the big tournaments at grey eagle for $300 I'm really comfortable. Not sure why online higher stakes gets me going though.

I avoid the low level stuff since its honestly a crap shoot at the very best.

I did help my friend who is a poker newbie win a tournament last night though. He's only been playing for 1 week and hits the final table and basically gets my opinin on every hand at the final table. Really wish he had recorded the video since I'd like to think it was pretty good mastery of making good calls.

The hand that set him up for the win.

He had Q 8 suited in his big blind. With 3 players left mind you. He's sitting 1/3. Person sitting 2/3 raises to 2 BB. I tell him just to call.

Flop.

Q 3 10 all diamonds...

I tell him to bet 3 BB. Guy calls.

Turn 7 clubs.

Tell him to bet 3 BB again. Guy calls.

River 6 clubs.

Bets 3 BB again. Guy shoves.

My friend wants to insta fold this thinking he's beat by an overpair or a straight or a flush.

I tell him the pre-flop raise really doesn't tell me has KK or AA. Maybe something like A 10 or A 8 or a small pocket pair.

Tell him not to worry about the straight since I don't think many players are going to call a gutshot or a runner runner on the flop with 3 players left in a tournament.

So I tell him the only real thing he should worry about is that the guy may have had a pocket pair and hit a set.

Finally convince him to call with his Qs. Guy shows 4 4. His stack at the point was a 5:1 lead over the 2nd place.

He had never played heads up before and I told him its not like normal poker. Its totally retarded and not to think. Third hand in opponent shoves. I told him as a 5:1 chip lead he'll get at least 2 chances to knock the guy out before the stacks will be even. He had A 10 in his hand when the guy shoved.

Got him to call. He showed J 10. Both players missed the board and he wins his first tournament. He was pretty stoked and admitted without me it would happen. When he called me on the phone he was sitting 7/9 at the final table. I had to teach him how to get value out of hands and try to see when your opponent is bluffing.

He did get quad 9's on the final table and busted pocket Kings with it that helped but a lot of it was slowly chipping up.

It's a fun game when people don't play like tards. I hate people that watch TV and think every hand is an action hand. I think my stats show I play 18% of the hands which I think is high enough let alone these guys that are close to 50.

[Kobe]

Originally posted by dflamzer

The hand that set him up for the win.

He had Q 8 suited in his big blind. With 3 players left mind you. He's sitting 1/3. Person sitting 2/3 raises to 2 BB. I tell him just to call.

Flop.

Q 3 10 all diamonds...

I tell him to bet 3 BB. Guy calls.

Turn 7 clubs.

Tell him to bet 3 BB again. Guy calls.

River 6 clubs.

Bets 3 BB again. Guy shoves.

My friend wants to insta fold this thinking he's beat by an overpair or a straight or a flush.

I tell him the pre-flop raise really doesn't tell me has KK or AA. Maybe something like A 10 or A 8 or a small pocket pair.

Tell him not to worry about the straight since I don't think many players are going to call a gutshot or a runner runner on the flop with 3 players left in a tournament.

So I tell him the only real thing he should worry about is that the guy may have had a pocket pair and hit a set.

Finally convince him to call with his Qs. Guy shows 4 4. His stack at the point was a 5:1 lead over the 2nd place.

He had never played heads up before and I told him its not like normal poker. Its totally retarded and not to think. Third hand in opponent shoves. I told him as a 5:1 chip lead he'll get at least 2 chances to knock the guy out before the stacks will be even. He had A 10 in his hand when the guy shoved.


http://www.pokerstars.eu/poker/room/tos/



5.4. COLLUSION. Collusion between Users by sharing hole cards or by any other methods is strictly forbidden. PokerStars reserves the right, in addition to other measures, to restrict seating and/or to prohibit Users from playing at a particular poker table or in a tournament, including restricting two or more Users from playing together at the same table or in the same tournament. In addition, PokerStars reserves the right to consider any collusion between players (including Users) as a material breach of this Agreement and accordingly PokerStars shall have the right to terminate a User's account if a User engages or attempts to engage in any such activity, regardless of the outcome of such attempt.

Let us see how Pokerstars works in finding out your collusion with another player...

And a screenshot just in case you try to delete the information..

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/2171/screenshot1eo.jpg

[ringmaster]

Oh snap! was not expecting that!
:nut:

[colinxx235]

@KOBE


LOL :rofl: do you know his Pstars name as well?? That is too good

[Disoblige]

Huh? Obviously dflamzer was trying to take credit for his friend's success. He's known for that. IMO, none of that stuff is true, isn't that right dflamzer?

[Kobe]

Pea_soup - you are a moron and I'm offically done arguing with you...


It's to easy with IP matchs, as soon as Pokerstars asks Rage2 for an IP trace your screwed..

E-mail has been sent..

http://img837.imageshack.us/img837/5290/snitch1o.jpg


His ID is not needed because of the same IP addresses and a little research into the hand that he had posted.

Can't be two difficult seeing his friend was 3 handed in an MTT

[colinxx235]

Yah I don't know how old dflamzer is to these forums. But Kobe is probably the last person you would admit cheating/collusion towards. Considering it is/was his job...

[Kobe]

I love Pokerstars support, it's sooo quick, it's been forwarded to the investigation department already.

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/4774/starsreply.jpg

[dflamzer]

Collusion would mean I would have to be physically at the table and telling him what cards were in play. Big difference between coaching and collusion.

Pokerstars simply does not allow you to pay another person to physically play for you or for you to play at the same table as another player and share information.

It's not cheating when a new player is asking you for advice so they can learn. I suggest you go wiki the term collusion.

They actually have no literature regarding coaching. In fact you can read regarding collusion on their own site. It actually says we'd need to be sharing information regarding each others hands.

COLLUSION
Collusion is a form of cheating in which two or more players signal their holdings or otherwise form a cheating partnership to the detriment of the other players at the same table.

While on one hand it is easier to pass information between colluding players in online poker than it is in brick & mortar rooms, it is much more difficult to avoid eventual detection, as the cards for all players can be examined after the play.

No matter how sophisticated the collusion is, it must involve a play of a hand that would not be played that way without collusion. Our detection methods are aimed to catch unusual play patterns and warn the security personnel, who will then make a thorough manual investigation. We will also investigate all players' reports about suspected collusion.

If any player is found to be participating in any form of collusion his or her account may be permanently closed.

http://www.pokerstars.com/poker/room/features/security/

I've never cheated. Nor for that matter do I even use software as I only play the game for fun and don't do high stakes.

[Kobe]

Originally posted by dflamzer
Collusion would mean I would have to be physically at the table and telling him what cards were in play. Big difference between coaching and collusion.

Pokerstars simply does not allow you to pay another person to physically play for you or for you to play at the same table as another player and share information.

It's not cheating when a new player is asking you for advice so they can learn. I suggest you go wiki the term collusion.

They actually have no literature regarding coaching. In fact you can read regarding collusion on their own site. It actually says we'd need to be sharing information regarding each others hands.

COLLUSION
Collusion is a form of cheating in which two or more players signal their holdings or otherwise form a cheating partnership to the detriment of the other players at the same table.

While on one hand it is easier to pass information between colluding players in online poker than it is in brick & mortar rooms, it is much more difficult to avoid eventual detection, as the cards for all players can be examined after the play.

No matter how sophisticated the collusion is, it must involve a play of a hand that would not be played that way without collusion. Our detection methods are aimed to catch unusual play patterns and warn the security personnel, who will then make a thorough manual investigation. We will also investigate all players' reports about suspected collusion.

If any player is found to be participating in any form of collusion his or her account may be permanently closed.

http://www.pokerstars.com/poker/room/features/security/

I've never cheated. Nor for that matter do I even use software as I only play the game for fun and don't do high stakes.


COLLUSION
Collusion is a form of cheating in which two or more players signal their holdings or otherwise form a cheating partnership to the detriment of the other players at the same table.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[ringmaster]

Originally posted by Kobe


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

I'm not taking a side here but I think what dl is getting at is while he is a player on PS, he is not a "player" in regard to the alleged cheating. There is one player (his buddy) and he is saying he is the coach for that particular hand.

[colinxx235]

^

It definitely wasn't your normal collusion you are referring to. Two guys at the same table sharing card info. But coaching is illegal, obviously just impossible to track online... Admitting to it in detail as such could potentially have some issues. Time will tell

[Disoblige]

gave dflamzer an out, he decided not to take it. oh well.

[ringmaster]

Originally posted by colinxx235
^
But coaching is illegal, obviously just impossible to track online...

Is it actually illegal (as in against the law) and if so, I wonder what type of crime this would be? It's obviously going to be against PS T.O.S but I'd be interested to know if it's actually against the law.

[Kobe]

Originally posted by colinxx235
^

It definitely wasn't your normal collusion you are referring to. Two guys at the same table sharing card info. But coaching is illegal, obviously just impossible to track online... Admitting to it in detail as such could potentially have some issues. Time will tell

Coaching is not illegal, you are allowed to record yourself and let others discuss your play, however being at a table and being coached and being told what to do, is pretty much allowing someone else 2 play which is in fact against the rules..

[dflamzer]

Big difference Kobe.

I wasn't the physical person clicking the mouse button saying raise or fold. He was physically asking my advice as literally it was his 2nd day of playing poker, in person or online. Up until then he had only watched on TV.

So he had the final say whether he wanted to raise, fold, shove, etc. I was literally teaching him how to reason with what people have and when to tell if they may be bluffing.

I look forward to the pokerstars reply. Certainly they are going to fry him for coaching during a micro tournament.

[Disoblige]

Update? :)

[Super_Geo]

Kobe why are you going so far out of your way on something so insignificant?

[C_Dave45]

Originally posted by Kobe




COLLUSION
Collusion is a form of cheating in which two or more players signal their holdings or otherwise form a cheating partnership to the detriment of the other players at the same table.




:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


I'm curious to see where this goes.

Collusion is when two "players", meaning two different people playing at the same table, are secretly sharing hand info.
Having one person playing and someone else helping them with decisions on the hand is quite another, and is not collusion.
Of course PS are going to respond quickly and "look into it". They want their games run completely legit. But I'm very curious to see what actually was done about it, if anything.

[Disoblige]

I guess no update. dflamzer wins!

[StinkyMahoney]

If you have cash with Full Tilt I believe they are back in business November 6th.

Just read this thread....very entertaining!

[FraserB]

I have started playing the Turbo 50/50 STTs, pretty fun and easy to consistently cash in.