Alberta average (non mortgage) debt is $33,564

[Tik-Tok]

My household is 18% higher than that, lol. Oh well, it's coming down quick enough, without disrupting our normal quality of life.


CALGARY — The average consumer’s total debt in Canada reached an all-time high in the second quarter of this year, according to a report released Thursday by TransUnion. It found that total debt, excluding mortgage, rose modestly in the quarter by $192 to $26,221. “Although this continues the trend of inflationary growth seen in the past five quarters, (the second quarter) is still the highest debt level per person seen to-date. The nation has now experienced consecutive quarters of accelerated growth when comparing both quarter over quarter (0.74 per cent) and year over year (2.41 per cent) numbers, possibly marking yet another turning point in the directionality trend for consumer debt,” said the report. The average consumer debt in Alberta was $33,564, up 1.2 per cent from the previous quarter but down 1.5 per cent from a year ago. “On a year-over-year basis, only Alberta posted a decreased annual growth rate in (the second quarter this year) versus (the second quarter 2011), which constituted the third consecutive quarter where debt levels decreased from the prior year,” said TransUnion. “We are in a unique situation because while it is somewhat disconcerting to see average consumer total debt reach its highest level since we’ve been tracking this variable. Canadian consumers appear to be able to manage this debt as delinquency levels have dropped across all of the major credit vehicles,” said Thomas Higgins, TransUnion’s vice-president of analytics and decision services. “It’s quite possible that this is a trend that will continue as consumers take advantage of the low interest environment. However, if there are any sudden economic shifts such as a significant rise in unemployment, then it’s quite conceivable that delinquencies will rise with debt levels.”

source (http://www.calgaryherald.com/business/Consumer+debt+hits+record+high+Canada/7133043/story.html)

[superflychief]

If you factor a car loan into that equation, I don't think it's that bad. If that's straight CC type debt then that's horrible. My wife and I have zero debt besides the mortgage :D

[benyl]

I wonder if that includes all the wannabe ballers that have an LOC to pay for their toys?

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by superflychief
If you factor a car loan into that equation, I don't think it's that bad. If that's straight CC type debt then that's horrible. My wife and I have zero debt besides the mortgage :D

Actually, that's a good point, didn't think of it. They must include vehicles (which is 80% of our debt, only on LOC, instead of conventional loans)

[Hallowed_point]

Yes!! I'm well below the average but still broke as hell :rofl: And I thought I was screwed :eek:

[Phl0xed]

Originally posted by superflychief
If you factor a car loan into that equation, I don't think it's that bad. If that's straight CC type debt then that's horrible. My wife and I have zero debt besides the mortgage :D

Same here. Granted, my DD Cobalt is not the most beautiful thing on the road... Oh well! Haha. Time to kick the mortgage's ass! :guns:

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by benyl
I wonder if that includes all the wannabe ballers that have an LOC to pay for their toys?

If it's secured, does it count as mortgage debt?

[KappaSigma]

If that amount does not include autos...or is a LoC that is not for auto, house or investments (IE offset by assets)...that is a scary number.

[masoncgy]

That has to be credit card type debt, there's no way that number is accurate if it includes automobile financing, given how many vehicles cost over $30K to purchase.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[Cos]

.

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by Cos
Jesus. Besides mortgages I owe like 4 digits yo. Haha

Muscle car restorations aren't cheap, when done right. :(

[A790]

LOL I'm WAY higher than that if you throw the car into the equation.

Probably around 50k.

[flipstah]

Originally posted by superflychief
If you factor a car loan into that equation, I don't think it's that bad. If that's straight CC type debt then that's horrible. My wife and I have zero debt besides the mortgage :D

If it includes a car loan, then it's average. :thumbsup:

If it's solely CC debt, HOLY SHIT.

[carson blocks]

$0 non-mortgage debt for me. The average debt level of $33564 at an average 5% interest rate would mean $1678/year wasted on interest. My income is decent, but I certainly don't make enough to want to piss away $1678 a year just for the privilege of having something shiny and new before I can actually afford to pay for it.

Don't get me wrong, I use my credit card like a madman, but always pay it off before any interest is due. Cashback FTW. I occasionally have to use my LOC when I have outrageous work expenses and the company takes longer to pay than my CC's interest free grace period would allow. Cost of doing business I guess.

[sputnik]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
I owe sweet fuck all, so some sucker out there must owe 66,930$ to make up for it :D

Same here.

[guessboi]

That is crazy. I have no debt excluding my mortgage.

[HiTempguy1]

I think one thing you have to keep in mind (skimmed the article, it may have touched on this) is how relevant is this compared to Average income?

Presumably, people have more debt when they earn more money. I'd be curious to see the ratio of non-mortgage debt to income. That is a much more interesting stat.

[supe]

I would be at 0 too but 1.99 percent interest rate was so low I decided to finance.

[Euro_Trash]

Originally posted by guessboi
That is crazy. I have no debt excluding my mortgage.

+1 Car payments bug me, credit card payments scare me

[max_boost]

If that's credit card/department store/unsecured loc, that's a huge number.

:eek:

[Kloubek]

My wife and I have zero debt, excluding mortgage. (And I'm glad to hear many in here are the same).

When I didn't have the awesome credit I have now and made less money, I had to go into debt to make ends meet. Having to do this taught me the incredible amount of money one pays in interest and I vowed that once I got stable I would not do that again. Apparently, most have not learned that lesson yet.

[masoncgy]

Originally posted by max_boost
If that's credit card/department store/unsecured loc, that's a huge number.

:eek:

It has to be. The debt-to-disposable income ratio is over 150% in this country, a lot of people are seriously living beyond their means. I don't understand how people in Vancouver, Toronto, etc survive other than go into major debt to keep up.

Of course, not on Beyond. No one here except for the couple straight shooters we've heard from have any debt... lol... what a place!

[carson blocks]

Originally posted by supe
I would be at 0 too but 1.99 percent interest rate was so low I decided to finance.

That makes some sense to me, especially if you have an equivalent amount in investments, earning (hopefully) more than 1.99%. I'm allergic to paying interest, but it makes sense to use other people's money if you can get it 'cheaper' than your own.


Originally posted by supe
Of course, not on Beyond. No one here except for the couple straight shooters we've heard from have any debt... lol... what a place!

Some of us $0 debt guys fall in to the 'cheap prick' category, not the 'beyond baller' category. The reason I have no debt is because I can stick my arm through the rust holes in my front fenders.

[KappaSigma]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1
I think one thing you have to keep in mind (skimmed the article, it may have touched on this) is how relevant is this compared to Average income?

Presumably, people have more debt when they earn more money. I'd be curious to see the ratio of non-mortgage debt to income. That is a much more interesting stat.

Also too how much of that is student loan debt....

[ExtraSlow]

I'm also at zero debt aside from the mortgage. Doesn't make me a baller, in fact it wasn't that long ago that I got called out in a thread for owning a ten year old pickup and an entry level economy car.
Ah well, I'd rather drive an old truck that I own instead of driving the banks vehicles. The sum value of my two watches is under $100 too, which doesn't seem to be typical here.

Anyone who's compfortable taking on some debt to finance a lifestyle that they enjoy, well, more power to them. Myself, I can't enjoy a vacation if I feel like I'm borrowing the money to go. Hell, even having a mortgage bothers me, and I'm working on paying that down ahead of schedule.

Beyond has some legit ballers, and some pretend ballers, and I'll bet both catergories have more debt than me.

[Ntense_SpecV]

Originally posted by ExtraSlow

Beyond has some legit ballers, and some pretend ballers, and I'll bet both catergories have more debt than me.

This is very much true. That's why in the other thread I put myself as living average - which seemed to spur the ire of some other posters. Yes my wife and I make good money, but I own my 10 year old economy car outright. Next Christmas my wife's car will be paid off. I do have some consumer debt, and some debt from investments, but I certainly don't live high and mighty like others in my income bracket appear to do.

[CapnCrunch]

This includes student loans?

I could see 50K being a pretty easy number to hit for a new grad.

[revelations]

I'm close to that number when I combine student loans and investment loans (both tax writeoffs).

Other than that, I dont purchase anything on CCs that wont be reimbursed somehow.

[Thaco]

HAH i blow that number out of the water... rookies.

[Cos]

.

[ianmcc]

Wonder what constitutes the average consumer.
In a typical household with two adults and two pre-teen children is it two or four consumers?
Even with two adult consumers we have zero debt aside from mortgage so add our two to a typical couple ans someone is in debt $132 464 to make up for us!

[max_boost]

The bank owns my 911, B9 and GTI. I'll fire sale it here when the economy crashes.

My non mortgage debt on those 3 cars is probably around $110K. 3X the average. Fuck yea. :werd: :rofl:

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by ianmcc

Even with two adult consumers we have zero debt aside from mortgage so add our two to a typical couple ans someone is in debt $132 464 to make up for us!

People like Banerjee make up for a LOT of zero debt'ers

[ZenOps]

US seems to be warming up the dollar printing presses again.

Which means people in debt may come out of this ahead of anyone who actually attempted to save in the last decade (or four decades as it may be)

http://articles.nydailynews.com/2012-08-07/news/33087155_1_financial-assets-senior-citizens-cushion

Almost exactly half of all americans end up with just enough for final costs. Maybe its the way it should be? I dunno.

[Type_S1]

Originally posted by max_boost
The bank owns my 911, B9 and GTI. I'll fire sale it here when the economy crashes.

My non mortgage debt on those 3 cars is probably around $110K. 3X the average. Fuck yea. :werd: :rofl:

Dibs on the 911!

0 debt other then the mortgage...which is a pretty significant debt and the interest is like being kicked in the nuts every 2 weeks. I don't own a fancy car (until Max_Boost needs to sell) or $5,000 watches though :cry:

I am not sure how consumer debt gets so high unless you have some crappy circumstances like a single parent or live well outside your means :dunno: What does a consumer debt stat really matter though? Like really?

[Kloubek]

Originally posted by Type_S1
0 debt other then the mortgage...which is a pretty significant debt and the interest is like being kicked in the nuts every 2 weeks.

The thing is that in the "real world" (ie: after moving out from the parent's place), you gotta live somewhere. If you rent, you're paying someone else's debt. If you own, you're subject to a ridiculous amount of interest every 2 weeks/month. Unfortunately, it's a necessary evil. Of course, one could buy a cheaper place to have less of a mortgage, or really live spartan and pay it off quicker - and some do exactly that. I, for one, don't want to "live less" in the prime of my life so that when I'm old I'm mortgage-free faster.

At least we can take comfort in knowing that mortgage interest is about as low as you'll find anywhere.

[jdmXSI]

Originally posted by masoncgy


It has to be. The debt-to-disposable income ratio is over 150% in this country, a lot of people are seriously living beyond their means. I don't understand how people in Vancouver, Toronto, etc survive other than go into major debt to keep up.

Of course, not on Beyond. No one here except for the couple straight shooters we've heard from have any debt... lol... what a place!

I was in Van a couple weeks ago and saw people rippin' Round in "baller cars" and wondered to myself, how over extended must these people be just to show off status.

It would blow me away if I was that far in consumer debt. I think I have $2k on cc, $1k on a loc.

[flipstah]

Originally posted by jdmXSI


I was in Van a couple weeks ago and saw people rippin' Round in "baller cars" and wondered to myself, how over extended must these people be just to show off status.

It would blow me away if I was that far in consumer debt. I think I have $2k on cc, $1k on a loc.

Uhhh, they don't. Those are bought by their rich parents.

There is the rare one or two who earned those cars at a young age but most of the time, it was bought by overseas 'vintage' money.

[jdmXSI]

Originally posted by flipstah


Uhhh, they don't. Those are bought by their rich parents.

There is the rare one or two who earned those cars at a young age but most of the time, it was bought by overseas 'vintage' money.

I know not every is over extended, I'm sure there are quite a few though!

[flipstah]

Originally posted by jdmXSI


I know not every is over extended, I'm sure there are quite a few though!

I will always remember the time I saw a red F430 with a Chinese kid and a smoking-hot passenger; presumably his GF or sister.

I was envious until he drove away and I saw the green Z.

I laughed for a bit then I got sad. Then had a Japadog.

It was a good day.

[InRich]

33k is a joke, its nothing really, thats like financing on a new car. most new cars now sell for 40k+.

I thought it was much worse then that. I think my total dept is like 60k. then again... I'm finding more and more of my new clients needing financing to cover costs like new roofs, or painting their houses.

IMO i think people are over leveraging themselves, dunno why more people can't settle for living in normal single family homes, or drive civics rather then expensive 80+k Bmw's or something.

[Lex350]

Only a bit of CC debt for me. No morgage or car loans either. Not bad for coming through the other end of a 3 year divorce battle. My retirement plan took a big hit but then again it was worth it. It may of took 3 years but I managed to lose 112lbs. :D

[colinderksen]

275k left on mortgage. No other debt of any type.

[XylathaneGTR]

I saw on the news last night that this figure includes debt for vehicle financing.

[npham]

Originally posted by XylathaneGTR
I saw on the news last night that this figure includes debt for vehicle financing.

I'm surprised this number isn't higher when they include vehicle financing in there. Like InRich said, new cars are 40k, so this is low. Too many beyond ballers skewing the numbers.

[ExtraSlow]

If the Car costs $40k, would you guys normally finance the full $40k? Does nobody do downpayments anymore? I feel like I'm on a totally different wavelength than a lot of people.

[flipstah]

Originally posted by ExtraSlow
If the Car costs $40k, would you guys normally finance the full $40k? Does nobody do downpayments anymore? I feel like I'm on a totally different wavelength than a lot of people.

My logic is that the downpayment could be used somewhere else or some other thing that has potential to appreciate.

Yes, I realize putting down will positively impact your duration and/or lower your monthly payments.

However, if it's 0.9% interest, which is pretty much nil, and your plan is to comfortably pay it off in 5 instead of 4 years... Why not use that $2-10k down (approx.) towards a house or stocks?

[benyl]

Originally posted by ExtraSlow
If the Car costs $40k, would you guys normally finance the full $40k? Does nobody do downpayments anymore? I feel like I'm on a totally different wavelength than a lot of people.

A thread from the past:


Originally posted by InRich


hmmm thanks bro. Looks like I'll be needing to buy a new machine by the end of this week. I just needed your guy's opinions. I'll let you guys know how it all went.

Thanks for the opinions guys. and I'm not rolling or anything, I'll be taking a full out loan for this machine, so...

I'm dealing with a guy named John at Glenmore BMW. seems deece. He's pushing the 4.8s

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by npham


I'm surprised this number isn't higher when they include vehicle financing in there. Like InRich said, new cars are 40k, so this is low. Too many beyond ballers skewing the numbers.

You have to remember trade ins though. Most. People who buy a $40g car, had a 10g trade in. Not many people go from a 20 year old $500 vehicle to a brand new one.

[CapnCrunch]

Originally posted by ExtraSlow
If the Car costs $40k, would you guys normally finance the full $40k? Does nobody do downpayments anymore? I feel like I'm on a totally different wavelength than a lot of people.

With 0% financing, that would be rather silly.

[ExtraSlow]

Yeah, I get the theory of using the money for investment purposes. I know some people probably profit handsomely off that tactic. However, it's also more risky. Most of us on beyond would probably take that saved money and invest in equities, which as the last ten years have shown us, can go down.

Putting it down on the car may be a small (or zero) return, but it's also completely risk-free.

Another advantage is that it maintains your flexibility for the future, say if you were to lose your job. you don't have years of car payments to worry about.

I guess I'm just a financial simpleton, and I'm pretty comfortable with that.

[carson blocks]

Originally posted by Tik-Tok


You have to remember trade ins though. Most. People who buy a $40g car, had a 10g trade in. Not many people go from a 20 year old $500 vehicle to a brand new one.


... and remember that not everyone included in the average is on day 1 of their car payments. The average would include people who bought that $40k car 4.5 years ago and have it damn near paid off.


A small part of me wonders if info like this released by someone like transunion is an attempt to get the masses thinking "I have less debt than average, I guess it would be ok if I get a loan for a new car / renos / vacation"

[flipstah]

Originally posted by ExtraSlow
Yeah, I get the theory of using the money for investment purposes. I know some people probably profit handsomely off that tactic. However, it's also more risky. Most of us on beyond would probably take that saved money and invest in equities, which as the last ten years have shown us, can go down.

Putting it down on the car may be a small (or zero) return, but it's also completely risk-free.

Another advantage is that it maintains your flexibility for the future, say if you were to lose your job. you don't have years of car payments to worry about.

I guess I'm just a financial simpleton, and I'm pretty comfortable with that.

If you put it on bonds, the most boring investment available, it's minutely more risky but it's generating more cash than that car.

It'll take a lot to bring the Canadian economy down (knock on wood) and if it does, you're fucked regardless of how many years you saved with that down payment.

That's just my thoughts. :)

[max_boost]

Originally posted by ExtraSlow
If the Car costs $40k, would you guys normally finance the full $40k? Does nobody do downpayments anymore? I feel like I'm on a totally different wavelength than a lot of people. I would just HELOC that shit. Same shit different pile! Unless if the interest was <3.5% haha then I'll finance. It's all about cash flow, got the cash coming in, keep making payments. If I were to save up and pay cash for everything, holy that would suck.

[JLau]

i am sure that includes any outstanding loans excluding mortgages or HELOCs....

i am glad i am at 0 lol...

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by ExtraSlow
Yeah, I get the theory of using the money for investment purposes. I know some people probably profit handsomely off that tactic. However, it's also more risky.

Manufacturer finance/lease rate can be the lowest loan rate out there. So there is no reason to throw cash at depreciating asset.

If you have enough liquid and has a steady income to service debt, you have more latitude to invest it for gain. There are risks but no guts no glory.

[JLau]

leasing is the way to go, especially for euro cars

[max_boost]

I'm realistically about 3 years from being completely debt free and fuck that's gonna be an awesome feeling when EVERYTHING will be paid off.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by max_boost
I'm realistically about 3 years from being completely debt free and fuck that's gonna be an awesome feeling when EVERYTHING will be paid off.

Meh. Then you'll find something new to pay for.

SLS BS next?

:rofl:

[XylathaneGTR]

Originally posted by npham


I'm surprised this number isn't higher when they include vehicle financing in there. Like InRich said, new cars are 40k, so this is low. Too many beyond ballers skewing the numbers.
Keep in mind this is just an average. Seems like there's a lot of people out there [myself included] with zero CC or student loan debt skewing those numbers. For each one of us out there driving an old Subaru, there's another kid driving a new S4 w/ 0 down and 1600/mo payments.

[JLau]

Originally posted by max_boost
I'm realistically about 3 years from being completely debt free and fuck that's gonna be an awesome feeling when EVERYTHING will be paid off.

I am kinda debating about pulling out investments to pay off the house so i can be entirely debt free lol....but the only problem is, if i am debt free, i will start blowing money on toys and never put it back into investments >.<

[max_boost]

Originally posted by JLau


I am kinda debating about pulling out investments to pay off the house so i can be entirely debt free lol....but the only problem is, if i am debt free, i will start blowing money on toys and never put it back into investments &gt;.&lt;

You will be traveling around the world to golf and your wife will want more lv/chanel hand bags haha

[JLau]

Originally posted by max_boost


You will be traveling around the world to golf and your wife will want more lv/chanel hand bags haha

Thats probably true...then we will never retire..haha

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by JLau


I am kinda debating about pulling out investments to pay off the house so i can be entirely debt free lol....but the only problem is, if i am debt free, i will start blowing money on toys and never put it back into investments &gt;.&lt;

A lot of factors play into this, such as amortization, income tax bracket, income property vs primary residence.

But in most cases, it's better to end your mortgage (primary residence) and use HELOC to play because mortgage interest is amortized.

[KappaSigma]

Originally posted by JLau


I am kinda debating about pulling out investments to pay off the house so i can be entirely debt free lol....but the only problem is, if i am debt free, i will start blowing money on toys and never put it back into investments &gt;.&lt;

Question is...how much are you willing to lose to tax right now?

[JLau]

well a lot of the ivnestments are not in rrsp, so makes no difference...

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

I owe $166000 on my soon to be Mortgage, $20000 on my car, and I have $7000 in the bank with no other debts, i'm not doing too bad, no big purchases for me in the next year to 2 years other than furniture.

[flipstah]

Originally posted by Twin_Cam_Turbo
I owe $166000 on my soon to be Mortgage, $20000 on my car, and I have $7000 in the bank with no other debts, i'm not doing too bad, no big purchases for me in the next year to 2 years other than furniture.

Damn, either that's a cheap house or a big down. Congrats.

[jdmXSI]

Originally posted by Tik-Tok


You have to remember trade ins though. Most. People who buy a $40g car, had a 10g trade in. Not many people go from a 20 year old $500 vehicle to a brand new one.

If you start including trade ins, don't forget about all the people that carry $5-10k in negative equity into the new loan and not everyone owns their car out right either. I guess ts really a moot point, since they would mire or less balance each other out.

[KappaSigma]

Originally posted by JLau
well a lot of the ivnestments are not in rrsp, so makes no difference...

Your kidding right....unless they are all in a loss position youll be paying capital tax on them. Assuming when you say investments you are referring to equities, etc.

[JLau]

Originally posted by KappaSigma


Your kidding right....unless they are all in a loss position youll be paying capital tax on them. Assuming when you say investments you are referring to equities, etc.


some are under a company, some in bonds funds and equity

[Khyron]

Originally posted by rotten42
Only a bit of CC debt for me. No morgage or car loans either. Not bad for coming through the other end of a 3 year divorce battle. My retirement plan took a big hit but then again it was worth it. It may of took 3 years but I managed to lose 112lbs. :D

Once you get a bit older, divorce is one of the most expensive things to go through (Buddy did it not once, but twice!). A few of our non-divorced long term couple friends have their houses paid off.

We're under 100K left on 12 year amort that's still less than 1200/month. Want to pay it off but with rates sooo lowww it's hard to justify. No other debt!

[DEATH2000]

One guy i work with owes about $90,000 on his LOC. He paid $460,000 for his house which is now worth about $850,000 which is great return, but shit son, 90g on a LOC? my bank does not love me that much.

My total consumer debt load is less then $10,000 including my wife's consumer debt.

[max_boost]

Originally posted by DEATH2000
One guy i work with owes about $90,000 on his LOC. He paid $460,000 for his house which is now worth about $850,000 which is great return, but shit son, 90g on a LOC? my bank does not love me that much.

My total consumer debt load is less then $10,000 including my wife's consumer debt.

Maybe he did what I did and HELOC's a 911 Turbo.