Law School

[gatorade]

Has anyone on beyond attended law school, or have extensive knowledge? at U of C specifically?. I am completing my BA in December, have been told to go to grad school, but considering law school due to the earnings potential.

My two year gpa is pretty high, should have no problems on that front, however my extra curricular and volunteer work is almost non-existent, however I've been told applying based on minority status helps a lot. Right now I'm going to do some lsat studying and gauge the difficulty of the material and my ability to confront it.

Any experiences?

[davidI]

Why do you want to be a lawyer? It shouldn't just be for earnings potential as in my experience, lawyers don't make much on an hourly basis unless they're at a top firm or make partner.

Law school is a perfect fit for my knowledge and experience, but something I do not want to do in any way given the work most lawyers actually do (I've worked for a personal injury private practice and now within the legal group of a large E&P and have friends working litigation for Sullivan & Cromwell, arguably the top firm on law street, so I've seen many sides of law).

U of C's acceptance criteria is also more open than many other schools. Check out lawstudents.ca for a load of info on the various options within Canada.

[gatorade]

Earnings potential isn't the only reason, now that I'm finishing school, I want to take a more advanced step towards in my studies. I have no problem being in school and learning, as long as I am doing something that I like and am doing well in I don't mind spending the time.

Being a partner in a firm is not something I am interested in, I do not need to be making over 200 gs to be content, earning in the area of the high 90's to the low 100's is fine with me.

One of my friends currently at U of O, talks about his daily experiences in law school and from what I am hearing it sounds fun, productive, consistent with my skill sets and modes of thinking.

Although I do not want to get into criminal law, I have a social advocacy mindset where in which I think in a position with the abilities as a lawyer, one could expose and help reconcile such issues.

So in turn while I'd be making money that I could live comfortably with, I could also be doing something that is fun and socially productive.

[Marsh]

No offense, you sound like a typical naive undergrad. You should do as much research into what its actually like being a lawyer, by talking to current lawyers, not people in school. If you think its anything like you've seen on tv then your in for a surprise.

I'd start here:
http://www.chicagonow.com/chicagos-real-law-blog/2012/04/what-being-a-lawyer-is-really-like/

http://canadalawstudent.blogspot.ca/

http://lawstudents.ca/forums/topic/10345-is-being-a-lawyer-such-a-bad-thing/

PS. Not trying to sound like a jerk or anything, but Im just trying to point out that expectations dont always match reality, and just trying to make sure you know what your getting into before you spend your precious time and money earning a degree.

[gatorade]

I don't have any expectation at all that it is like TV, I come from a background to where I am already aware that most perceptions of anything, whether from the media or through discourse is bullshit. My expectation is that I will be a lawyers bitch doing articling and research.

I have no desire to be a litigator, I'd rather stick to my skill set in research and writing. Those are some very good links you posted, I will read them., thanks.

Also I am far older than most undergrads, I've spent years on one degree, then did a complete 180 and finishing that one right now.

[urrforce]

probably watches too much of this lol


http://reginecelinaaa.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/suits-4.jpg

[gatorade]

Actually I never watch any law based tv shows, so I can't gauge on what you are referring to, and I have no idea what show that picture represents.

Also if you paid attention to what I wrote earliar, I specifically said that my expectation is that I would be a lawyers bitch doing articling and research, which is probably not a representation of what is on that tv show.

[davidI]

Given what you described being interested in, perhaps you should look into pursuing a role in arbitration?? I believe there are different courses and designations for arbitrators.

It's a lot of work and money to finish law school if your end goal is to basically be a para-legal or mediator.

[gatorade]

Originally posted by davidI
Given what you described being interested in, perhaps you should look into pursuing a role in arbitration?? I believe there are different courses and designations for arbitrators.

It's a lot of work and money to finish law school if your end goal is to basically be a para-legal or mediator.

Not arbitration, but para-legal is something I have considered before, the education requirement isn't high and the pay is decent. However I think that taking that path would be a waste of my potential. Right now I constantly get harassed to go to grad school by profs, which is something I might still do, law school is the second possibility.

I'd rather have the designation, I do not intend, nor desire to ever spend any time in a court room. I'm content with a secondary role where I would research the the hell out of case law and legislation, and then apply it to a problem by writing it up in memos.

I am curious as to what industry you work in, I am assuming it is in oil and gas development?.

[davidI]

Yes. O&G. There are plenty of law jobs that do not involve any time in court and are basically office jobs.

In-house council for firms is the big one. Many lawyers are just glorified paper pushers. Contracts (for marketing, services, procurement, intellectual property etc.), tax law, family law (divorce, property etc.).

If you have the brains and background, I think there will be a huge future in intellectual property law. Just look at all the patent disputes that have recently been litigated. For every litigator, there is an army of associates doing the research.

Before signing up for law school, I think you should have a clear goal in mind. It may change once you hit the books, but if you at least have a law job in mind that will keep you happy for the next 30 years then it will make the time and expense of law school worth it.

As someone else said, I'd highly recommend you get in touch with some lawyers from various schools of law and determine if it's something you would enjoy doing.

[shakalaka]

I am articling at the moment. But I knew I wanted to be in criminal defence from day one and love being in court. That is what I do as I work at one of the top criminal firms in Edmonton and I can't possibly enjoy it more, even though it gets overwhelming lots of times. But litigation and being in court is where my heart lies so it doesn't feel like 'work' to me. In terms of the money, there is lots to make in this profession depending on how hard working you are, regardless of the kind of firm you're in.

I know senior lawyers that are billing over the 1 mil mark a year, as well as junior lawyers (just starting out) who make well under the 100K mark a year. Of course the potential and likelihood is there, it all depends on you. If you follow your interests, chase after success and excellence you won't have to worry about the money. It'll come on it's own.

If you have any specific questions, feel free to PM me.

[Destinova403]

I can speak from my experience on this. I finished my undergrad at U of C in 2011 and did quite well on the LSAT. I got accepted to a few law schools but ultimately once I spent more time working with an actual law firm in the field I realized that I did not want to do it for the rest of my life. (Currently studying a different professional program at U of C)

The reality on earning potential is that yes, some lawyers do make a boat load of money, but the vast majority make the same kind of money as professionals in any other field (accountants, engineers, etc.)

People go to law school because they have a passion for the Law. The people I know who chose the profession due to the money haven't made it through. Its a tough grind and it really has to be something that you are passionate about.

Spend some time working in a law firm and seeing what the real day-to-day life is for a young lawyer. I think you'll find that its 60 hours a week with your nose in a book for the first 10 years. Its a difficult grind, but if you have the passion you can definitely do well in it.

Please be aware as well, only the top students get good articling jobs or positions after they graduate. A majority of law graduates never end up practicing law at all. There just isn't enough articling positions out there to accept all of the new law graduates, especially in large cities. (2 New law schools opening doesn't help either)

I dont mean to discourage you, I'm just sharing my experience with the process and the research I put into it before I made my decision. The biggest suggestion I can give you is to take the time to work in a law firm and talk to Law grads (not students) and really understand if its right for you.

[chibwack]

Yeah, I read in National Post a few months back that a typical lawyer, on per hours worked, makes less than a high school teacher. You can make a lot more for doing a lot less...

[gatorade]

The lower end of earnings is not something I am that concerned with, as long as it is good enough for a middle-class lifestyle that is fine with me, I do not expect to or care to be the top end lawyer making six figures.

What matters more here to me is doing something past a BA, my choice right now is between getting a masters or a jd. While I understand that I could be making just as much if not more without this higher education, the educational approach opens more doors and networks.

[Destinova403]

Originally posted by gatorade
The lower end of earnings is not something I am that concerned with, as long as it is good enough for a middle-class lifestyle that is fine with me, I do not expect to or care to be the top end lawyer making six figures.

What matters more here to me is doing something past a BA, my choice right now is between getting a masters or a jd. While I understand that I could be making just as much if not more without this higher education, the educational approach opens more doors and networks.

The answer to that question becomes kind of obvious then IMHO. Spend some time talking to/working with lawyers and decide if its something that you want to spend the rest of your life doing. If your passionate about it then go for it.

Nobody on the board can tell you what you want to do.

If your GPA is over 3.4 and your LSAT is over 160-163 and you apply everywhere with a solid reference letter and average experiences you'll get into at least one law school. Each school has a different set of criteria that they look at. U of C for instance has an average entrance age of 26 (older than other law schools) because they focus on the soft aspects of your application rather than grades. (much more difficult to gauge your chances based on last years successful applicants). U of A on the other hand just uses an index score so its pretty easy to see if you'll get in or not based on what the cut off was last year.

Not sure if that answers your question regarding admissions. What I did when I was applying was make a spreadsheet of every law school, what their requirements were, and all their application deadlines. That might be helpful.

EDIT: In regards to applying as a special applicant or minority applicant, be very careful. If you are native than you have an advantage, but generally if you don't fit their criteria of what a special applicant is (learning disability, family loss, etc.) they will throw your application out. You won't get any sort of special treatment for being a visible minority generally as far as I know. The point of these applications is if you had to overcome a huge burden just to apply, or if a major event or disability impacted your grades.

[chibwack]

What was your major? You could always do the MBA thing, those are pretty open ended if you have any interest at all in finance or management or whatever

[gatorade]

My GPA shouldn't be a problem, I should be graduating with one above 3.7, it is 3.92 now if you include only my last ten courses.

I already have a few professors lined up who will do my academic references, but when they offered, they wanted me to go to grad school at U of A. I should have no problem getting into one or a few law schools, unless I somehow become incapable of doing well on the LSAT.

Also the same references that I have in mind, my friend also used. He also was accepted to multiple law schools, with a a gpa barely higher than mine. Eventually he decided on U of O.

My major is sociology, which is one of the main reasons I would want a masters, as a BA in that isn't very useful.

To destinova, what specifically about the field of law did you not like?.

[Destinova403]

Honestly I just found that it wasn't the right fit for me. Not everyone is cut out for every position. I'm looking for something different for my career.

The best advice I can give you is to try to talk to as many people in the potential careers that appeal to you, and really see if its right for you. Just don't be driven by earning potential.

My father always told me that if you enjoy what you do, then you can be damn good at it and the money will follow.

[Marsh]

Kind of curious actually...Anyone do a LLB from the UK? And currently practicing in Canada (or in the process of NCA exams)

[dirtsniffer]

I think Shakalaka did or something, read something a year or 2 ago about this.

[dirtsniffer]

Here let me find that for you. (http://forums.beyond.ca/st/352813/law-school-abroad/)

also surprised I remembered the user :nut:

[littledan]

Originally posted by Marsh
Kind of curious actually...Anyone do a LLB from the UK? And currently practicing in Canada (or in the process of NCA exams)

my fiancee just graduated from LLB in UK last year and is doing her NCAs in Jan and May