Any Oil and Gas Land Employees here? I have questions!

[Nickerjones]

I am currently a petroleum landman in the US. My wife is from Calgary and we were looking at moving to Calgary within the next year after my college degree is finished. I have been a petroleum landman for a year in a half and have worked in Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, and Colorado.

I am just wanting information on land work in Canada. It is my understand that an US landman and Canadian landman are two different things. I have heard a lot of the minerals up north are owned by the crown ( is this the correct term?) so the title , leasing, right of way, and curative work that I do down here wouldn't apply in the same way in Canada. Can you give me anymore info on this? What would my current position/experience's equivalent be when I moved to Calgary?

Whats the pay like , opportunities , etc?

[davidI]

I haven't been an active Landman for a while but can probably answer most of your questions.

There is still a lot of Freehold work done in Alberta in the belt between Calgary and Edmonton but usually the leasing is done by what we'd call Land Agents or Surface Landmen. Agents can work for one of the many land service companies (Look into Scott Land & Lease, Cavalier Land, Standard Land, Britt Land etc.) Land Agents / Surface Landmen usually take care of both Freehold Mineral Leasing and Surface Lease work (where the Crown owns Minerals, Farmers and Ranchers often have the Surface Rights so access agreements still need to be entered).

Those are probably your best bets. I'm sure a lot of the title / leasing / right of way / curative work would be very smiliar after you got over the intial learning curve.

Mineral Landmen in Canada tend to focus more on the negotiation of JVs, Farm-ins/-outs etc.

The thing with Surface Landmen and Agents is they tend to be on the road a lot. If you want to be based in Calgary and be office based with an E&P, you could certainly look at Land Admin type roles.

For opportunities, just Google "Calgary Land Services" and you should find a load of websites to peruse opportunities on.

It may not hurt to try and get involved with CAPL & CAPLA when you're here as well. CAPL is more directed towards negotiators and CAPLA towards administrators. I'm not sure if there is a surface land forcused organization. Olds College is the school that runs the land agent program, so it may not hurt to look into that as well.

I don't want to guess on salaries as it could range widely...my guess would be $50-$80k+ depending on your experience and role though.

[Type_S1]

Originally posted by davidI
I haven't been an active Landman for a while but can probably answer most of your questions.

There is still a lot of Freehold work done in Alberta in the belt between Calgary and Edmonton but usually the leasing is done by what we'd call Land Agents or Surface Landmen. Agents can work for one of the many land service companies (Look into Scott Land & Lease, Cavalier Land, Standard Land, Britt Land etc.) Land Agents / Surface Landmen usually take care of both Freehold Mineral Leasing and Surface Lease work (where the Crown owns Minerals, Farmers and Ranchers often have the Surface Rights so access agreements still need to be entered).

Those are probably your best bets. I'm sure a lot of the title / leasing / right of way / curative work would be very smiliar after you got over the intial learning curve.

Mineral Landmen in Canada tend to focus more on the negotiation of JVs, Farm-ins/-outs etc.

The thing with Surface Landmen and Agents is they tend to be on the road a lot. If you want to be based in Calgary and be office based with an E&P, you could certainly look at Land Admin type roles.

For opportunities, just Google "Calgary Land Services" and you should find a load of websites to peruse opportunities on.

It may not hurt to try and get involved with CAPL & CAPLA when you're here as well. CAPL is more directed towards negotiators and CAPLA towards administrators. I'm not sure if there is a surface land forcused organization. Olds College is the school that runs the land agent program, so it may not hurt to look into that as well.

I don't want to guess on salaries as it could range widely...my guess would be $50-$80k+ depending on your experience and role though.

Some surface landman (contractors) at my shop bill out at over $1000/day. They are the 10 year guys though that bring a lot to the table. Starting would probably be 50-80k as David said.

A US landman skills would transfer best to being a surface landman in Canada. You would have to take the course at Olds College and get your land agent licence to become one. To get the licence you also need to have 5-10 supervised negotiations under a landman already licenced.

You should also note that if you are coming from the US...living expenses in Calgary are extremely high.

[iron_man888]

Dave pretty much nailed it with his explanation. You pretty much have to decide whether you want to get into the surface or minerals side of land.

I'm a five year mineral landman so if you have any specific questions; feel free to post and I can try and answer your questions.

[iron_man888]

Originally posted by Type_S1


Some surface landman (contractors) at my shop bill out at over $1000/day.


This is pretty accurate. Our shop subs out all our surface and freehold leasing and most brokers are charging roughly $150 per hour. :eek:

[davidI]

Originally posted by iron_man888



This is pretty accurate. Our shop subs out all our surface and freehold leasing and most brokers are charging roughly $150 per hour. :eek:

+ expenses?

Agents usually rack up the vehicle / fuel / motel costs so if that's their all in rate, it's pretty reasonable. The Agent is likely only taking home 1/3 - 1/2 of the Broker's billable rate, regardless.

[Nickerjones]

Thank you guys for your quick answers. Definitely gets me going in the right direction for research. Im guessing the CAPL is just like the AAPL but just for Canada.


Originally posted by Type_S1


You should also note that if you are coming from the US...living expenses in Calgary are extremely high.

Yes yes, I have been coming to Calgary 2 or 3 times a year since '06. Her family still lives there so I am quite ready for the shock of the expense of living in YYC. Housing prices still amaze me there. Here in Oklahoma ( where I was born and raised) we can get a 2500sq ft house for 240-260k. Up there.. I would assume thats nearing the million dollar mark.

However... max Landman in the field here is probably billing out $500/day rate + expenses ( hotel, mileage, and food) so if Landmen are billing $1000/day there I would expect the cost of living to be higher. In house landmen can make 100-140k here but usually they average around 85k.

So do I have to take the course at Olds or could previous experience be used in lieu of the course? I did take a course here before I started and received a certificate of completion ( see piece of paper that says " Certificate of completion" lol )

[davidI]

AAPL is very similar to CAPL. In fact, AAPL held their conference in Banff in 2006 so I went up and got drunk and golfed with a bunch of American Landmen. Good times. Tried to tag down a cougar for Chesapaeke too, but not luck.

As far as becoming an Agent, a little Google research should sort you out:

http://eae.alberta.ca/labour-and-immigration/land-agents-licensing.aspx

http://eae.alberta.ca/documents/WIA/WIA-LAL-howto-landagent.pdf

[iron_man888]

Originally posted by davidI


+ expenses?




yup, the $150 is just the hourly rate. The extras like transportation expenses, cell phone use, paper (i.e. pulling title) etc, get tacked on after

[bspot]

I would give Devon a shot. The fact HQ is in your town might help you land a job for up here. The Devon office in Calgary is probably about 1000 people, and compensation is on the higher end for many jobs.

[davidI]

Originally posted by bspot
I would give Devon a shot. The fact HQ is in your town might help you land a job for up here. The Devon office in Calgary is probably about 1000 people, and compensation is on the higher end for many jobs.

Very good suggest bspot but I would suggest OP talk to current Land Agents in the Calgary office. Devon's had a load of turnover in their land group in the last year. I'm not sure if they've resolved the issues that led to so many people leaving or not...and perhaps the issues do not affect the agents as much as the admin / negotiators.

OP, I do still know a couple of people in Devon's Land Dept. so feel free to PM me if you want to get a contact.

[ExtraSlow]

I'm not on the land side but I do work for Devon in the calgary office (Drilling Superintendent). If you do decide to apply, I might be able to ask around and get you in touch with the right manager.
No idea if it helps, but you can also use my name in the "referred by" box on the website.

[Type_S1]

If you know any companies with a US base I would try getting them to send you up here to work for them as an expat. May be hard but worth a shot.

I believe you do need the olds course to become a land agent but not completely sure.

Good luck on the search and if you have any questions feel free to shoot me a PM as well.

[Nickerjones]

Holy crap... Thank you guys for the responses. I will get around to PM'ing everyone. I am back home for the weekend so I have to spend time with the wife and dog. It might take a day or two to get to PMs.

As for Devon here you pretty much have to have a 4 yr degree to even work in the mailroom. Im trying to finish my degree online as we speak.

I did do some digging online and turns out I do not have to take the course at olds. You just have to have 2 yrs of post secondary school. I have 71 hours of college course completed so that should suffice. I believe I would still have to apply for the license , take a test ( anyone have info on the test , is it pretty simple?) and be in a training program for a year.

"Enter into a Training Agreement with a person or corporation (trainer) willing to train you as a land agent. Please note - You must work under a trainer for at least 12 consecutive months prior to applying for a permanent land agent license. The trainer does not have to be a licensed land agent, however the trainer must ensure you are trained under the supervision of permanent land agent licensees who have been actively involved in land agent work during the three years immediately preceding the date of your interim land agent license application."


How hard is it to find a person or a company willing to train you? Is the training a paid gig? I know here in Oklahoma it is a pain in the butt to find a company to train you to run title. You have to know someone to get you in but then you still have to pay the dues like sitting at home when work is slow because you're low man on the totem.

Again guys... Thank you for your help. Maybe my wife is right when she says Canadians in general are more helpful and nice than Americans. I'm not going to admit it to her though. :D

[Cos]

.

[Type_S1]

Getting a company to train you will be a lot easier in my opinion because you have so much experience.

I think your best bet to start may be a land company (non E&P) such as Scott Land, Land Solutions, Britt Land etc etc.

Pretty much all the job postings on landman.ca right now are for surface guys. I would start shooting emails off explaining your situation to these companies and see where it takes you. At worst it is getting your name out there to companies in Canada.

[Nickerjones]

Originally posted by Cos


Just an FYI for you. I am not sure if this counts as much in land as it does in engineering but there are three 'levels' of education here.

1.) One year or less - Certificate
2.) Two years - Diploma
3.) Four years - Degree

So if they say you need 2 years it is probably a diploma as opposed to just having 2 years done without the paperwork.


In the states we have an associates degree which is just 2 yrs in a major study. Usually just your general studies. It's a pretty useless thing to have here but they do have them.

I found this :
http://eae.alberta.ca/labour-and-immigration/land-agents-licensing/publications.aspx

I guess a call to this place is in order next week.

It doesn't mention having "a diploma"
1. Post-Secondary Education Requirement
a) Applicants for interim land agent licenses are not required to have a post secondary diploma or degree but must have successfully completed credit courses equivalent to 2 years of a full course load in a diploma or degree program. This may be met through courses completed at one institution or through a combination of courses from multiple institutions.
b) The post secondary education must be relevant to the activities of a land agent. This could include any post secondary education related to the oil and gas, utility or transportation industries, agriculture, environment, law, management, business or resource development and conservation.
c) An official transcript is required from all institutions as proof of completing the post- secondary education requirement.
2. Definitions
a) Full Course Load
• Equal to the number of credits and courses required in the majority of full-time programs at the educational institution where the courses are completed;
• Normally 15 or more credits are obtained per semester;
• Normally enrolled in 5 or more credit courses per semester;