Smoking Bylaw (split)

[Zero102]

Shaolin, I second the smoking bylaw. I can't wait until everything is smoke free.
We shouldn't all have to breathe that shit because you guys decide to poison yourselves.
You should have to smoke in a freakin bubble.
Cigarettes should be illegal. And apparantly they make people stupid, because from the looks of it, all smokers are illeterate since they can't read either no smoking signs or the warnings on the packs.

I take great pride knowing that all the smokers will die of lung cancer 40 or 50 years before I die of old age.

[QuasarCav]

Originally posted by Zero102
Shaolin, I second the smoking bylaw. I can't wait until everything is smoke free.
We shouldn't all have to breathe that shit because you guys decide to poison yourselves.
You should have to smoke in a freakin bubble.
Cigarettes should be illegal. And apparantly they make people stupid, because from the looks of it, all smokers are illeterate since they can't read either no smoking signs or the warnings on the packs.

I take great pride knowing that all the smokers will die of lung cancer 40 or 50 years before I die of old age.


So are big fatasses illeterate too becuase they can't read the heart attack warnings?

I smoke and I agree that other people should not have to breathe it in, but I also agree with freedom of choice and if i want to smoke and die i will.

Not to bash but you cant just throw something like that out there and not expect opposition.

Oh and I think alcohol should be illegal because i don't like paying for DD accidents. But i guess you die a whole lot faster from a DD then from an asshole smoker.

[Zero102]

Okay, that is in need of a small rephrase.
Smoking should be illegal, but I am not opposing somebody's right to kill themself. Here's something to think about, if you smoke a pack a day every day, that's some serious money. Think of what you could do with another $2000/year. But I'm sure by now somebody has said that.

I have a serious issue with the people who smoke right outside doors, in no smoking areas, whatever.
In my opinion, making calgary smoke free is going to be one of the best moves the city has made in quite some time.

Now, the comment about smokers being illiterate. I am going to make reference to your example as well.
Fat people don't go to a no eating zone (bear with me) and sit there and eat, and by doing so, rub it in everybody's faces that they bear absolutely no respect for anybody else.
Yet you will always see smokers in front of a no smoking sign. That is just a lack of respect for everybody else. I don't think it's too much to ask, to be able to walk into a building (at the university especially) without having to walk through a crowd of smokers.
Now, obviously a no eating zone does not exist. And at the same time, you don't get cancer from working in a place where there are fat people, and for the most part they don't stink when you stand near them, etc.

Well in all fairness, if alcohol was discovered today it would be illegal, same with tobacco. I don't agree with drinking and driving, but at the same time, a drink at home is safe, and doesn't bother anybody else.

[ehos]

I love how everyone knocks on smoking, yet they're all fine with the number one drug, alcohol.

Alcohol kills more people, screws up more lives, and is everyway worse than smoking.

Yet, no one gives 2 shits about it. Why? Because I tells ya, I tells ya it's cause it's good business.

[ehos]

Yet you will always see smokers in front of a no smoking sign. That is just a lack of respect for everybody else.

[/B]

Kinda like people that speed are being disrespectfull? :)
Everything is relative.

'Other peoples money and our own intelligence always seems to be more than what it really is.'

[88CRX]

Originally posted by ehos
I love how everyone knocks on smoking, yet they're all fine with the number one drug, alcohol.

Alcohol kills more people, screws up more lives, and is everyway worse than smoking.

Yet, no one gives 2 shits about it. Why? Because I tells ya, I tells ya it's cause it's good business.


fuck that shit... i choose to drink responsibly (well most of the time ) however i dont choose to inhale your second hand smoke :thumbsdow so next time you light up lock yourself in a air tight room and save all the cancer for yourself :dunno:

[xkon]

Originally posted by Zero102
Okay, that is in need of a small rephrase.
Smoking should be illegal, but I am not opposing somebody's right to kill themself. Here's something to think about, if you smoke a pack a day every day, that's some serious money. Think of what you could do with another $2000/year. But I'm sure by now somebody has said that.

I have a serious issue with the people who smoke right outside doors, in no smoking areas, whatever.
In my opinion, making calgary smoke free is going to be one of the best moves the city has made in quite some time.

Now, the comment about smokers being illiterate. I am going to make reference to your example as well.
Fat people don't go to a no eating zone (bear with me) and sit there and eat, and by doing so, rub it in everybody's faces that they bear absolutely no respect for anybody else.
Yet you will always see smokers in front of a no smoking sign. That is just a lack of respect for everybody else. I don't think it's too much to ask, to be able to walk into a building (at the university especially) without having to walk through a crowd of smokers.
Now, obviously a no eating zone does not exist. And at the same time, you don't get cancer from working in a place where there are fat people, and for the most part they don't stink when you stand near them, etc.

Well in all fairness, if alcohol was discovered today it would be illegal, same with tobacco. I don't agree with drinking and driving, but at the same time, a drink at home is safe, and doesn't bother anybody else. \

i was a smoker, and i used to be the same way - "who gives a shit about those pansy ass non smoking idiots"

I agree now, that ive quit, that smoking is suicidal, and yes it should be banned in public places and should be dealt as an offence when it happens in those said places. But like i used to be, im willing to bet the smokers wont care!

[Zero102]

Don't get me started about speeders. Speeding is pretty bad as well. Speed limits are exactly that, a limit, not a challenge. However there are also some speed limits that should be raised. I am not going to argue about speeding, but yes, people who speed usually start cutting people off to get in traffic, then it gets very rude. I feel the same way about bad drivers. They have no right to endanger my life with their careless or outright reckless driving.

I thought I was going to get seriously flamed for this one, so I am a little surprised to even have an ex-smoker in agreeance with me.

xkon, perhaps you can get my brother to quit smoking =)

ehos, now I am not saying drinking is right. It is another substance, that if discovered today would be illegal. And I agree with that. Without a doubt drinking and driving kills many many people, and in that way it affects other people's lives.

But on the other hand, I don't feel that alcohol affects other people in the same way or quantity that smoking does.

I will say that I do drink, and I drink in my own home, in the evening, around people who it does not bother. I have no problem with people who smoke in their own homes, with other smokers. I have a problem when they bring it outside of their home.

[QuasarCav]

I try my best not to smoke in public places, because i know how annoying it is to non-smokers, good point though and thank you for phrasing it intelligently instead of just flaming.

So to re-iterate, if i am to smoke i will do it in my own house or car

if i am to drink same rules apply (not in car)

if i am to eat it shall only be in the designated eating zones:) :)

[rage2]

Originally posted by 88CRX
fuck that shit... i choose to drink responsibly (well most of the time ) however i dont choose to inhale your second hand smoke :thumbsdow so next time you light up lock yourself in a air tight room and save all the cancer for yourself :dunno:
So why don't you choose to go to a non smoking establishment?

[JAYMEZ]

Second hand smoke :thumbsdow

You know what pisses me off about it , i just finish working out , i walk outside and BOOM smokers :barf:

Smokeing inside someones house or car is fine to me , but i dont agree with smoking infront of non smoking areas.

As for alcohol , im not much of a drinker so i dont have a problem with it , but drunk driving :thumbsdow :thumbsdow

[88CRX]

Originally posted by rage2

So why don't you choose to go to a non smoking establishment?

outside the door at sait is a non-smoking area... hmmm... thats strange. maybe next time i'll just jump out a window

[xkon]

i used to smoke EVERYWHERE

i could care less if it was no smoking or not! i worked in a butcher shop, and guess what i did in the morning? :D

but, times change, and so does my view on it... i cant even stand 2nd hand smoke now, it pisses me off!

[rage2]

Originally posted by 88CRX
outside the door at sait is a non-smoking area... hmmm... thats strange. maybe next time i'll just jump out a window
Yes it is. Exits can be designated a non smoking area. Our building here at work, all exits within 5 meters I believe is a non smoking area. If you're so concerned, talk to SAIT and they can put a sign up and designate it as non smoking. If SAIT wants to keep the exits as a smoking area, then yes, you should jump out the window. That's SAIT's problem, not the smoker's problem.

Smoking areas IMO should be designated based on the owner of the establishment, not by the city. If they want to cater to smokers, then they should have the right to do so.

If they REALLY think smoking is bad and should be banned, then they should make cigarettes illegal. They shouldn't reap the tax benefits of cigarettes, yet enforce all these huge restrictions on the people that can purchase a legal product.

[MerfBall]

Isn't it in the bylaw that you cant smoke within x feet of any exit/entrance? or did that get revised?

[88CRX]

Originally posted by rage2

Yes it is. Exits can be designated a non smoking area. Our building here at work, all exits within 5 meters I believe is a non smoking area. If you're so concerned, talk to SAIT and they can put a sign up and designate it as non smoking. If SAIT wants to keep the exits as a smoking area, then yes, you should jump out the window. That's SAIT's problem, not the smoker's problem.

Smoking areas IMO should be designated based on the owner of the establishment, not by the city. If they want to cater to smokers, then they should have the right to do so.

If they REALLY think smoking is bad and should be banned, then they should make cigarettes illegal. They shouldn't reap the tax benefits of cigarettes, yet enforce all these huge restrictions on the people that can purchase a legal product.

all (or atleast most) exists at Sait are designated as non-smoking areas... and they ask that they take 15 step or something away from the door and smoke there. of course no one does this.

but why should we have to even ask for the commom cortesy for smokers to step away from the door. :dunno: we dont smoke for a reason. we dont want to have to breath in your second hand smoke everytime we exit a building and smokers should respect that.

[QuasarCav]

I don't think that smokers should be even allowed within 5m of a door.

There should be no smoking in public places, or at least one smoking door.

This is coming from a smoker.

[rage2]

Originally posted by 88CRX
all (or atleast most) exists at Sait are designated as non-smoking areas... and they ask that they take 15 step or something away from the door and smoke there. of course no one does this.

but why should we have to even ask for the commom cortesy for smokers to step away from the door. :dunno: we dont smoke for a reason. we dont want to have to breath in your second hand smoke everytime we exit a building and smokers should respect that.
Then call the cops on them. If they're breaking the law, then they should be punished.

We have guys here that park in our alley where it says no parking in alley. Blocks the alley so I can't get out. I call parking control and get them towed within 5 minutes.

Poeople that don't repect the law should be punished. So go do something about it instead of saying BAN ALL SMOKING IN CALGARY, because those guys will STILL break the laws.

[hjr]

Originally posted by ehos
I love how everyone knocks on smoking, yet they're all fine with the number one drug, alcohol.

Alcohol kills more people, screws up more lives, and is everyway worse than smoking.
can you give figures or are you talking directly out of your ass hole?

[T5_X]

Originally posted by 88CRX



fuck that shit... i choose to drink responsibly (well most of the time ) however i dont choose to inhale your second hand smoke :thumbsdow so next time you light up lock yourself in a air tight room and save all the cancer for yourself :dunno:

You could make the EXACT same argument against alcohol. Alcohol increases crime and motor vehicle accidents. Some people use it irresponsibly just like cigarettes. Am I going to give anyone else cancer if I have a smoke on the middle of a frozen lake? No, just like you're not going to get in a car and drive after you've had 6 drinks.
If you're prepared to support making cigarettes illegal, you had better be prepared to argue for pohibition of alcohol as well.

[Zero102]

I would tolerate prohibition if smoking were deemed illegal.
First of all, the argument about going to non-smokin establishments. There are VERY few places you can go that are completely non-smoking.
Especially if you are looking for somewhere to go to supper.
On top of that, even if wherever you go is non-smoking, you can be certain somebody is standing right outside the door smoking!
Yep, the bylaw does say (I believe) 3M from any enterance/exit. But that is far too little, should be 15M or so.
Next, about calling the police. Why don't you give it a shot buddy? Call up the police and cry that somebody is smoking, I would be surprised if they don't hang up on you. They get very grumpy about it.
Bylaw deals with it, and I have called on several occasions about many stores.
But the truth of the matter is, they are backed up for about 6-8 months on matters like this. So I am waiting for them to step in and clean some of these places up.

T5_X, go ahead, go out to the middle of a lake and smoke. It wouldn't bother me at all, it will just kill you even faster.
I have no issue with people who smoke in their own homes, or in a secluded area. But that is maybe 0.1% of smokers.
But I still don't understand the point of your argument. Smoking in the middle of a lake vs driving after 6 drinks?...
I hope I have not gotten too rude in all of my responses, but this is a very personal subject for me.

[88CRX]

Originally posted by rage2
Poeople that don't repect the law should be punished. So go do something about it instead of saying BAN ALL SMOKING IN CALGARY, because those guys will STILL break the laws.

I never once said ban all smoking in calgary... not once. All i said was give non-smokers the courtesy of staying the fuck away from the doors. Why do they need to make a law about it? Why dont you just do whats right and not give me cancer?



Originally posted by T5_X
You could make the EXACT same argument against alcohol. Alcohol increases crime and motor vehicle accidents. Some people use it irresponsibly just like cigarettes. Am I going to give anyone else cancer if I have a smoke on the middle of a frozen lake? No, just like you're not going to get in a car and drive after you've had 6 drinks.
If you're prepared to support making cigarettes illegal, you had better be prepared to argue for pohibition of alcohol as well.

First off, the alcohol analogy could be the most retarded thing i've ever heard. Alcohol only affects the persons drinking. Me slaming back 5 shots while standing beside you does not make you drunk. However you smoking 5 smokes beside me definately affects my health. And dont respond with then dont come to a smoking bar, cause to tell you the truth i try not to. All im arguing against is people who have to nerve to smoke at a bus stop or right outside a door which i HAVE to use.

[T5_X]

Originally posted by Zero102

T5_X, go ahead, go out to the middle of a lake and smoke. It wouldn't bother me at all, it will just kill you even faster.
I have no issue with people who smoke in their own homes, or in a secluded area. But that is maybe 0.1% of smokers.
But I still don't understand the point of your argument. Smoking in the middle of a lake vs driving after 6 drinks?...
I hope I have not gotten too rude in all of my responses, but this is a very personal subject for me.

Smoking in the middle of a lake vs NOT driving after 6 drinks, in both cases the person enjoys their substance responsibly.

I enjoy my right to smoke responsibly. I go through a pack of ultra light smokes about every 2 months, mainly consuming them walking home from a bar or out on fishing trips. I enjoy the flavor and feel of the nicotine, just as I enjoy a beer on a hot day after working on my car. Just because the occasional dick does not follow smoking bylaws, or drinks and drives should I have either of these rights taken away from me? Your 0.1% of smokers generalization is obviously far from accurate.

And the second hand smoke thing gets blown way out of proportion by way too many people. Yes, second hand smoke is a problem and it is atrocious that anyone should put another at risk due to thier addiction. However, many people think that a faint whiff of smoke from a person 10M away outdoors will give them cancer. Give me a fucking break! You are just adverse to the smell. Its like saying you should outlaw farting or not wearing deoderant.

[88CRX]

Originally posted by T5_X
And the second hand smoke thing gets blown way out of proportion by way too many people. Yes, second hand smoke is a problem and it is atrocious that anyone should put another at risk due to thier addiction. However, many people think that a faint whiff of smoke from a person 10M away outdoors will give them cancer. Give me a fucking break! You are just adverse to the smell. Its like saying you should outlaw farting or not wearing deoderant.

Sorry but its not up to you to decide whether or not i enjoy the smell of smoke. Sure it prolly doesnt affect my health much but its still fuckin sick :thumbsdow

[T5_X]

Originally posted by 88CRX



First off, the alcohol analogy could be the most retarded thing i've ever heard. Alcohol only affects the persons drinking. Me slaming back 5 shots while standing beside you does not make you drunk. However you smoking 5 smokes beside me definately affects my health. And dont respond with then dont come to a smoking bar, cause to tell you the truth i try not to. All im arguing against is people who have to nerve to smoke at a bus stop or right outside a door which i HAVE to use.


You obviously have no concept of empericism. If there was no such thing as alcohol, you would not be at risk of being hit by a drunk driver.
Alcohol does not only affect the persons drinking if the person drinking participates in an action which puts others at risk.

[88CRX]

Originally posted by T5_X



You obviously have no concept of empericism. If there was no such thing as alcohol, you would not be at risk of being hit by a drunk driver.
Alcohol does not only affect the persons drinking if the person drinking participates in an action which puts others at risk.

And if automobiles didn't exist we wouldnt have to deal with drunk driving at all :dunno:

[rage2]

Originally posted by Zero102
First of all, the argument about going to non-smokin establishments. There are VERY few places you can go that are completely non-smoking.
Especially if you are looking for somewhere to go to supper.
What are you talking about? Every single restaurant out there is smoke free.

Originally posted by Zero102
Next, about calling the police. Why don't you give it a shot buddy? Call up the police and cry that somebody is smoking, I would be surprised if they don't hang up on you. They get very grumpy about it.
Uhh, I've complained about small things, and they send out bylaw officers to take care of it right away. Smokers at the doors, gets ticketed. People that don't shovel their walks, bylaw officers show up and deal with it quickly. Or you can ASK the people to stop smoking there, before you call the cops. That's usually enough to make them stop. If you have to go as far as calling the cops, after a few tickets, they WILL get the idea.

btw - I'm an ex-smoker, and I'm sick of all the non smokers taking away smokers rights. They're people too. It's no different than say, banning all mods on cars, because it leads to street racing like they're trying to do in Ontario. Yea that's right, we're all against that! :rolleyes:

[T5_X]

Originally posted by 88CRX


Sorry but its not up to you to decide whether or not i enjoy the smell of smoke. Sure it prolly doesnt affect my health much but its still fuckin sick :thumbsdow

I'm not saying what you should enjoy or not, but taking away a person's right to smoke, not take a shower, fart etc just because you think its sick is not just.

[rage2]

Originally posted by 88CRX
I never once said ban all smoking in calgary... not once.
My bad. I was directing the comment at the folks that think banning smoking altogether is the answer.

[88CRX]

Originally posted by T5_X
but taking away a person's right to smoke

Once again.... i couldnt care less your dumb enough to give yourself cancer. But please, please, dont give it to others. Seems simple to me.

[88CRX]

Originally posted by rage2

My bad. I was directing the comment at the folks that think banning smoking altogether is the answer.

I hate smokers and i personally could never see smoking being completely banned. :nut:

[T5_X]

Originally posted by 88CRX


Once again.... i couldnt care less your dumb enough to give yourself cancer. But please, please, dont give it to others. Seems simple to me.

Which, if you have read my posts with the slightest bit of seriousness you would notice I agree with completely.

[88CRX]

Originally posted by T5_X


Which, if you have read my posts with the slightest bit of seriousness you would notice I agree with completely.

well fuck you too :D

[ZorroAMG]

Wow, so this thread is just a continuation of the Ask leo thread huh?

[Melinda]

Originally posted by 88CRX
all (or atleast most) exists at Sait are designated as non-smoking areas... and they ask that they take 15 step or something away from the door and smoke there. of course no one does this.

but why should we have to even ask for the commom cortesy for smokers to step away from the door. :dunno: we dont smoke for a reason. we dont want to have to breath in your second hand smoke everytime we exit a building and smokers should respect that.
:werd: it's retarded, and security doesnt do shit about it (that's who we're supposed to call when that stuff happens) I have no idea where the "strictly enforced" bullshit from the start of this year went, but by 2005, SAIT will supposedly be a non smoking campus...

[QuasarCav]

Originally posted by Melinda

:werd: it's retarded, and security doesnt do shit about it (that's who we're supposed to call when that stuff happens) I have no idea where the "strictly enforced" bullshit from the start of this year went, but by 2005, SAIT will supposedly be a non smoking campus...


yeah, enforcement is the key, or else there is no reason to make rules

[Zero102]

rage2, I don't know when you called the cops about things like that, but right now, if there is no injury involved, bylaw is backed up almost 6 months. I'm not trying to be rude, but here's my experience with it.
I made a complaint a long time ago, then recently I had a friend slip and fall on an icy sidewalk, and we made a complaint about that. Out of sheer luck, we got the same bylay officer as my previous complaint. The slip and fall was taken care of 2 hours later. When I spoke to the bylaw officer, I brought up my previous complaint, which after he looked up, he said he would get to it in about 2 months, and that they were backed up between 5 and 10 months depending on the nature of the complaint.

I have spoken to MANY smokers, some actually holding the door open while smoking, and the response I get from 99% of them is 'FUCK YOU' when I ask them to move. I am usually quite nice about it.
I have a hunch it's more that 0.1% of smokers, more like 10% of smokers that don't respect non-smokers.
Now, the argument of NOT driving after 6 drinks does make more sense. And I agree, if used responsibly, I have no issues with cigarettes. However this is rarely the case.

Not all resteraunts are smoke free in Calgary. Not even all family reseraunts are. Boston Pizza for example. They allow smokers to walk in from outside, through part of the resteraunt to the bar, with a lit cigarette. Even after I spoke to the manager, he told me that they are allowed to do so, and that he will not stop it.
There are tons of other resteraunts that do not abide by the bylaws, and most smokers that visit these resteraunts take advantage of it.

Wow, I forgot to check this thread for a while, and I missed a bunch of stuff.