2012 FORMULA 1 UNITED STATES GRAND PRIX - Sun 18 November 2012

[rob the knob]

who is going? not so easy fly to race from calgary. i thought easy but expensive now and need to stop over.




http://images.huffingtonpost.com/2012-11-09-austin_F1_map.jpg

[buh_buh]

I like how they have a Toyota on their flyer. Did they make these in 2009?

Also, weird that they come out and say they copy corners from other tracks on their track map. Where are the overtaking zones going to be? Turn 1 looked promising, but the uphill might make that difficult since the braking zone is shortened. Turn 11 and 12 claim they are overtaking zones, but the run ups look pretty short.

[Cos]

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[Redlyne_mr2]

I hope they do a better job with the event than they do with their flyer lol.

[urrforce]

maybe this race will be held at a decent hour so i can watch one lol

[xerooption]

Are the states known for making good circuits except for ovals....? lol (note: I did not use the world "great")

[Cos]

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[Mibz]

I fucking love Road Atlanta.

[EK 2.0]

I'm stoked for this weekend...Just to see lap times improve as the weekend progresses...correct me if I am wrong but as of now none of the drivers have physically driven the circuit yet outside of playing in F1 21012 right??...

The course doesn't seem to offer a lot of great passing areas as buh_buh mentioned...But we will have to see I guess once they all arrive...

[Kramerica]

Only one DRS zone :banghead:

Alonso had a simulator at his house, I think most teams have detailed simulators of the track, Pirelli even had a video of their simulation. FP1 will be boring but the rest of the weekend should be exciting as more and more rubber gets laid down.

[H4LFY2nR]

I'm flying to Houston, renting a car, and staying in San Antonio. It's not much longer of a drive to the track, and I'm told it's way nicer than Austin. Hotels are still cheap there, even on the riverwalk.

[Grogador]

Originally posted by H4LFY2nR
I'm flying to Houston, renting a car, and staying in San Antonio. It's not much longer of a drive to the track, and I'm told it's way nicer than Austin. Hotels are still cheap there, even on the riverwalk.

Austin is a younger funner party crowd, SA is more tourist/mature friendly.

[H4LFY2nR]

Any other beyonders going?

[diamondedge]

Originally posted by H4LFY2nR
Any other beyonders going?


...sigh the week after for a work trip. Missed out on tickets for USGP this time.

H4LFY2nR, get your BBQ on son!!

[Mibz]

LOL, Westboro getting in on some of that media.

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=47893


A group of religious fanatics plan to picket the Circuit of the Americas this weekend in order to... "remind this nation that God hates the wicked people of this land of vain idolaters and that they shall be turned into Hell"

The infamous Westboro Baptist Church faces a busy weekend as, other than the Grand Prix, its flock is due to picket the Grace United Church of Christ in Abilene, St. John's Episcopal Church in Abilene, the First United Methodist Church in Abilene, the Emmanuel Church (Methodist) in Abilene, and gigs in Kansas City featuring Bruce Springsteen and Aerosmith.

Explaining, the reason for the picket, of which there have been 49,254 to date, on its website, the group proclaimed: "WBC will picket Formula 1 racing at The Circuit of The Americas in Austin, TX to remind this nation that God hates the wicked people of this land of vain idolaters and that they shall be turned into Hell. These sporting events resemble the patriotic worship-the-flag pep rallies masquerading as soldier's funerals in that this Bible-ignorant fools worship these race car drivers like they are little gods! Shame on these people for worshiping these athletes instead of following the plain commandments of their God. They ought to obey today before it is too late. WBC knows they will not, never the less, we will kindly warn them to flee the wrath to come. These are the last days of all, Doomed America. Wake up before you find yourselves cast into the deep pit of endless fire!"

That will teach Kimi and Seb to swear on the podium.

[94boosted]

Looks like the race will only be broadcast on TSN2 @ 5:00pm MST. Are there any pubs in town that will be broadcasting it live @ noon?

[Cos]

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[lauphman]

Will be shown live on Ctv2, on shaw in HD at noon channel 212.

[urrforce]

sorry for the stupid question but what channel is ctv2?

[A2VR6]

Originally posted by urrforce
sorry for the stupid question but what channel is ctv2?

Channel 212

[rage2]

http://stream.speedtv.com/mercedes

Live onboards. FP2 is live right now.

[cycosis]

Looks promising for Vettel with him leading both P1 and P2

[EK 2.0]

Originally posted by cycosis

Looks promising for Vettel with him leading both P1 and P2


That it does...and makes me very happy to see...BUT, anything can still happen...which I dislike haha...

[rage2]

It's a Red Bull track. Championship is over, unless Alonso/Ferrari is flawless, and Red Bull crashes out or blows another alternator.

[Kramerica]

Originally posted by rage2
It's a Red Bull track. Championship is over, unless Alonso/Ferrari is flawless, and Red Bull crashes out or blows another alternator.

Don't forget that there are rumors Vettel also is running out of engines with race life in them, its highly unlikely considering they didn't take another engine in abu dhabi, but there is still a chance that they either didn't have time to put in a new engine or there wasn't one available. I suspect Ferrari's strategy since korea has been damage limitation without taking any major risks and hope Vettel either suffers an engine failure or has to take a grid penalty in brazil.

[buh_buh]

If they suffered another grid penalty they'd just start from the back again. :rolleyes:

[EK 2.0]

Originally posted by buh_buh

If they suffered another grid penalty they'd just start from the back again. :rolleyes:

Pit lane my friend...pit lane haha...;)

[Kramerica]

Originally posted by buh_buh
If they suffered another grid penalty they'd just start from the back again. :rolleyes:

Either that or set the car up for race trim and send it through qualifying with the new engine. That's assuming the engine even needs replacing, I highly doubt Red Bull would even mention it until after this weekend

[Cos]

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[93VR6]

Anyone watch the drivers press conference?

I would watch it just for Kimi, they ask him who's going to win the championship and his reply is "well whoever has the most points.."

It's seriously hard not to love that guy.

[Mibz]

http://i.imgur.com/sEtMW.jpg

AMERICA, FUCK YEAH

[Cos]

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[Kramerica]

Watched FP3, the Ferraris look like they're driving on ice. I don't think there was a lap where Alonso didn't lose the rear end.

[EK 2.0]

Originally posted by Kramerica

Watched FP3, the Ferraris look like they're driving on ice. I don't think there was a lap where Alonso didn't lose the rear end.

The prancing horses have been struggling with rear grip all season...a new un-rubbered track will only make that worse...

But, having said that I have been enjoying watching the "F1 Drifting" haha...

[Kramerica]

Originally posted by EK 2.0
But, having said that I have been enjoying watching the "F1 Drifting" haha...

Yeah I've been enjoying that as well, now we know why kimi went and did rallying

[Cos]

.

[Kramerica]

Another Mclaren failure :banghead:

Atleast Ferrari can consistently produce a crap car.

edit: well looks like Vettel's championship now, any way you look at it he has it in the bag. What the fuck were Ferrari doing with the car set ups?

[EK 2.0]

Whooo hoooooo Vettel on pole!!...

Great job by Hamilton closing that gap into the 1:35's though!!....

[buh_buh]

Vettel loves the pole.
Start Button from pit lane and race setup.

This season couldn't end any quicker.

[rage2]

Originally posted by Cos
Is it just me or are they really pushing the American stereotypes? It is bugging me a bit. All the music is southern rock, the have made wanted posters, just seems kind of rude to me. Lol
Southern rock FTW.

I wanna see Hamilton go for it all in turn 1. Nothing to lose. Fucking up Vettel's race will make brazil more interesting.

[herragge]

Originally posted by buh_buh
Vettel loves the pole.
Start Button from pit lane and race setup.

This season couldn't end any quicker.

Ditto. Vettel pole sucked the life out of this race for me.

[Cos]

.

[Kramerica]

Originally posted by Cos
WTF is up with Alonso? Massa making him look like an idiot sometimes. Crazy.

I suspect Ferrari did what they did in korea and gave Massa the newer parts with Alonso running the older set up (he confirmed he was basically in the same car that was in Abu Dubai). Once again they obviously had no clue what the parts did and just decided to take a gamble on Massa. Ofcourse Alonso could just be cracking under the pressure but who could blame him with the shambles of a car Ferrari has given him this season and his chances of being world champion slipping away.

At this point I'm just shocked at Ferrari's incompetence, They wasted the first 40 minutes of FP3 practising pit stops then decided to run and couldn't react when they saw that their cars were sliding all over the place. I still think they're DRS is set far too agressively and they're missing out big time in qualifying because of it. Alonso would've been better off not running at all and getting pushed up to 9th on the clean side of the track with a fresh set of tires.

[cycosis]

I have a feeling Hamilton would love to do just that, take Vettel out...

Pardon my newbness, but how different are the setups in terms of Webber's and Vettel's car? Does Vettel get the new parts first?

[ottamania]

they both have same car. thats what they were saying.

massa has a gear box penalty! team order :) alonso is starting 7th which is clean side of the track unless RBR does same thing and breaks webbers gear box seal :dunno:

[DJ Lazy]

Wow! Ferrari!

Replace the gear box in Massa's car, which causes him a 5place grid penalty and bumps Alonso onto the clean side of the track. All done on purpose! :rofl:

[Cos]

.

[Kramerica]

:rofl:

Just when I thought we weren't going to see any Ferrari antics this season

[EK 2.0]

Whooooo F1 drama!!....I so enjoy this stuff...haha...

[danno]

What channel is it on today. Speed is blackout and tsn doesn't have it

[scary_perry]

+1 what channel?

[danno]

Nevermind I found it on ctv2.

[scary_perry]

Originally posted by danno
Nevermind I found it on ctv2.

thanks!

that is 212 for shaw folk

[Kramerica]

https://twitter.com/F1PitRadio

Dunno if anyone would be interested in this, its occasional good for extra info

[DJ Lazy]

LEWIS!!!!!!!!!!!!! :clap:

Great fuckin race! MERICA!

[ottamania]

fantastic battles all around. great race for sure.

[rob the knob]

did lewis tell to vettel that vettel quit?

[EK 2.0]

Originally posted by DJ Lazy

LEWIS!!!!!!!!!!!!! :clap:

Great fuckin race! MERICA!


Agreed...GREAT drive by Lewis...I knew he had the pace on Vettel which bugged me haha...but I can admit when someone has a faster car and pulled off a better drive...

But we can't forget Button...he had a great race as well so props to him and Lewis and all of Macca...

Now off to Brazil to get Seb his championship haha...:D

[Kramerica]

Hamilton!!!

Definitely reminds me why I'm a Hamilton fan, never gave up and took advantage of every opportunity.

[herragge]

Wow, a great race surprisingly. And in America. Lots of passing, some without DRS even. Good result too because it keeps the championship open, but 13 points is a big gap. Alonso needs alot to go right, Seb needs alot to go wrong. Was surprised with Webber retiring. Good race for Hamilton, well deserved win.

[urrforce]

the cowboy hats at the end were cool lol

[Kramerica]

Originally posted by herragge
Alonso needs alot to go right, Seb needs alot to go wrong.

It just takes one alternator.

[rage2]

Originally posted by EK 2.0
Agreed...GREAT drive by Lewis...I knew he had the pace on Vettel which bugged me haha...but I can admit when someone has a faster car and pulled off a better drive...
Faster car? Typical Vettel fan lol. RBR was the class of the field this weekend. Lewis risked and pushed hard, to the point where his tires were shot after the 1st stint and was dropping over a second a lap to Vettel. Hamilton used more tires than he had to keep up to Vettel.

The better driver in the inferior car won today.

[rob the knob]

i would disagree.

none the less, you must consider that vettel was racing for championship with much to lose.


excellent drive for fred today.


Originally posted by rage2

Faster car? Typical Vettel fan lol. RBR was the class of the field this weekend. Lewis risked and pushed hard, to the point where his tires were shot after the 1st stint and was dropping over a second a lap to Vettel. Hamilton used more tires than he had to keep up to Vettel.

The better driver in the inferior car won today.

[rage2]

Originally posted by rob the knob
none the less, you must consider that vettel was racing for championship with much to lose.
Vettel was racing for the win today, not the championship, but that's Vettel. He's been lucky it hasn't bit him in the ass. He moved over on Hamilton during the pass, and he pushed all the way till the end. Took unneccessary risks IMO.

In related news...

http://ballsdot.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/f1h5.gif

[Cos]

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[syritis]

http://www.planet-f1.com/news/3213/8258628/Alonso-I-Am-Proud-Of-This-Decision

neat read. seems like Massa keep getting screwed to push Alonso through. too bad Massa deserved much better but i guess thats the name of the game.

[rob the knob]

thats is a good clip. embarrassing it was showed on tv.


i do not believe vettel raced for win. i will not argue.


i watched race then was away all day.


you may be right, i am willing to listen what is said..




comment: there is many good F! fans on this bbs. its is good.

[buh_buh]

RBR dominated FP1, 2, 3 and qualifying, and McLaren had the faster car? Give me a break. Vettel fans are just like Vettel, always have an excuse or something to complain about when things don't go 100% your way.

[That.Guy.S30]

Originally posted by buh_buh
RBR dominated FP1, 2, 3 and qualifying, and McLaren had the faster car? Give me a break. Vettel fans are just like Vettel, always have an excuse or something to complain about when things don't go 100% your way.

Yup. Seb reminds me of justin beiber. I find it entertaining that Alonso has been hounding redbull with a slow-ass car all season long.

Good race for Hammi. Horrible overall season for him though.

[Kramerica]

I dunno how you could watch that race and argue that either Mclaren had the faster car or that Vettel wasn't racing for the win. If you looked at the live timing Hamilton's times dropped off a cliff by the end of the first stint, he had basically cooked his tires trying to catch Vettel. Also if Vettel wasn't racing for the win why did he go on his little rant about being held up by back markers on team radio?

[rob the knob]

maybe no right or wrong.

seem like lewis is OBAMA, and you lewis FANS can see no other view.

congratulations LEWIS







Originally posted by Kramerica
I dunno how you could watch that race and argue that either Mclaren had the faster car or that Vettel wasn't racing for the win. If you looked at the live timing Hamilton's times dropped off a cliff by the end of the first stint, he had basically cooked his tires trying to catch Vettel. Also if Vettel wasn't racing for the win why did he go on his little rant about being held up by back markers on team radio?

[Cos]

.

[Mibz]

Not that Hamilton himself is any different.

[rage2]

Originally posted by rob the knob
maybe no right or wrong.

seem like lewis is OBAMA, and you lewis FANS can see no other view.
:rofl:

1/2 the people you're trying to argue with aren't even Hamilton fans.

[cycosis]

Very entertaining race to watch. Ah I enjoy the level of hate for Vettel on these forums hah. Great race by both him and Hamilton. And I would also say say Vettel was racing for the win (not necessarily championship). Its his nature.

[rob the knob]

this has made for an exciting final race.

[rob the knob]

Ferrari defend penalty decision
Monday 19th November 2012

Ferrari defend penalty decision
Stefano Domenicali is adamant Ferrari made the right call in penalising Felipe Massa in the US GP and that every other team boss would agree or they're lying.

In the build-up to Sunday's United States GP, Ferrari deliberately broke the seal on Massa's gearbox to ensure the Brazilian was hit with a grid penalty, dropping him behind Alonso.

The move, though, wasn't aimed at helping Alonso make up a position but rather it was done to put the Championship hopeful on the clean side of the grid.

Ferrari's decision paid off as Alonso, with better traction in the short sprint into the first corner, quickly moved up into fourth place before later putting his F2012 on the podium.

And as Lewis Hamilton beat Sebastian Vettel to the victory, the Championship will go down to the season finale in Brazil with Alonso trailing Vettel by 13 points.

Asked whether he believed Ferrari had made the right decision, Domenicali said: "Yes, otherwise we wouldn't have done it.

"I prefer to be totally transparent, because honestly something like that you can easily simulate something, if you want. But I felt it was more correct to say the truth, this is our style, my style.

"You can agree or not with that decision, but honestly at the end of the day it is something that is on our responsibility to do it.

"We knew before the start of the race that the difference in grip level of the two side of the grid was very high, and we knew that it was very important to be with the first cars in the first couple of laps, otherwise the race would have been almost finished."

The Italian insisted that "if another team principal is saying we didn't do the right choice, he's lying to you."

In fact, Domenicali revealed that Ferrari even had a few concerns that Red Bull would use the same trick to undo their strategy by deliberately hitting Mark Webber with a penalty.

"Yes, that's why we waited until the last moment to do it. It's part of the strategic things you have to decide. That's part of the game," he said.

[cycosis]

I really hope it rains next weekend and just makes for a messed up finale:D

[ottamania]

Originally posted by cycosis
I really hope it rains next weekend and just makes for a messed up finale:D

+1 that would be really interesting race if it rained. i hope vettel crushes regardless. :devil:

[buh_buh]

I'm ok with what Ferrari did.
Felipe's out of the championship, they did what they could to maximize Alonso's position, which pretty much has been their MO all year. I won't give them props for being honest about it, but at least they were honest about it this time.

[Mibz]

Originally posted by ottamania
i hope vettel crashes regardless FTFY

[cycosis]

Now now lets play nice....

[Inzane]

Originally posted by Cos
Is it just me or are they really pushing the American stereotypes? It is bugging me a bit. All the music is southern rock, the have made wanted posters, just seems kind of rude to me. Lol

I thought that was all for the TEXAS motiff, not necessarily America in general.


What a great race!

Anyone else a bit bothered by the TSN coverage? For example at the end of the race they cut to commercial during the victory lap and as far as I recall we missed the drivers getting out of their cars (and waving, hugging, Lewis checking out the other cars, etc.), the weighing, the back-room chit-chat among the podium winners (I was expecting we'd see Vettel pouting), the grid girls, etc.
Oh yeah, and most importantly, the TSN broadcast didn't even come on until late Sunday evening. WTF??

[Mibz]

TSN takes the BBC feed, which you could have watched live on CTV.

[Kramerica]

I always stream the Sky F1 feed so I can catch what's going on inbetween the commercials.

[scary_perry]

great race - my three fave drivers on the podium

awesome championship IMO for same reason

the last 2-3 F1 seasons have been the best since Prost/Senna IMO.

wonderful racing, awesome spectacle

the austin track is wicked too, going to buy the F1 game so I can 'try it.'

[Inzane]

I know it's probably been discussed before but I'm going to say it again anyway ---

What the hell happened to Mercedes this year?!? :dunno:

How could a team with the Schumi-Brawn combo get everything so very very wrong?

[Kramerica]

Originally posted by Inzane
I know it's probably been discussed before but I'm going to say it again anyway ---

What the hell happened to Mercedes this year?!? :dunno:

How could a team with the Schumi-Brawn combo get everything so very very wrong?

Double DRS. Brawn has been pretty open that they went down the wrong path with it. To start with most teams couldn't get it to produce any benefit and Mercedes basically had to design their whole car around it to get that benefit. From there they were boxed in for development of the car any radical changes would marginalize the Double DRS and basically not be worth implementing. This was fine at the beginning of the season, but when everyone figured out how to work the Pirelli tires better Mercedes couldn't do anything, which was why they were the only team that needed to do two pitstops last race. At the moment I think Mercedes are the only team designing a completely new car for 2013 which says alot about how much the Double DRS is integrated into the current car and how much of a failure it has been.

[rage2]

To add to what Kramerica posted, the DDRS system worked very well for Red Bull, their car is much faster than everyone else since they implemented the system. Mercedes' implementation maxxed out, and there was no time or resources to change directions or improve in other areas. Every other top team was able to focus resources to improve the car, which made Mercedes look like they were going backwards.

Same thing happened to Lotus last year with their front facing exhaust. While promising, it severely limited their options in improving the car by mid season.

Mercedes gave up several races ago. Everything they're doing now is to test stuff for next year.

[scary_perry]

But the RB is not the fastest car on straights?

[Kramerica]

Originally posted by scary_perry
But the RB is not the fastest car on straights?

That's a little bit misleading, there are degrees of agressiveness you can set up DRS, the more agressive you go the more unsettled the car becomes when it comes off. Red Bull have traditionally gone really mild so that they can use it throughout qualifying without unsettling the car when it comes off in the corners, the compromise is that they lose some speed out of DRS. Ferrari's DRS is really agressive and you can see they struggle through the corners in qualifying but can over take really easily during the race.

Should also mention that Red Bull traditionally gear their car for quicker acceleration through the corners and has never been a car that fast on the straights to begin with

[rage2]

The RBR implementation of DDRS isn't to maximize straight line speed. It's to get rear downforce back while reducing drag. It does so by channeling air when the wing is open into the rear diffuser. So basically, there's a very very small drag penalty, with huge gains in downforce.

RBR was able to open the DRS through the high speed triple apex in Austin, which is absolutely retarded in terms of laptimes. In qualifying, Vettel was 4/10ths faster than Hamilton in the final sector.

Mercedes, OTOH, used DDRS to blow the front wing for a top speed boost, as well as minimize downforce in the front wing to obtain better balance in low downforce corners.

[Mibz]

I read that part of Mercedes failure was because of how the DDRS affected the nose. While other teams were managing to do crazy things with flexible noses, MB couldn't due to their DDRS design. Take that for what it's worth.

[rage2]

Originally posted by Mibz
I read that part of Mercedes failure was because of how the DDRS affected the nose. While other teams were managing to do crazy things with flexible noses, MB couldn't due to their DDRS design. Take that for what it's worth.
Mercedes was not only limited to just flexi wings designs, but entire front wing design in general because they had to work everything around blowing the wing to reduce downforce.

A more detailed look at the DDRS implementations, when DRS is open, you have a huge inbalance of downforce. All of a sudden, you have a car that has loads of grip up front and nothing out back, which means if you turn, you'll spin like a top.

Mercedes decided to fix the imbalance by bleeding front downforce (for a small straight line boost), which allowed it to take high speed corners that doesn't require a lot of downforce with DRS open. Unfortunately, it was the wrong philosophy. There aren't that many high speed low downforce corners in the calendar, and if you've followed F1 long enough, downforce is king.

RBR as mentioned above, went in a different direction. They took a very small drag penalty to add more rear DF to correct the aero imbalance. That's much more useful, as it can be used pretty much anywhere except high downforce corners. As a bonus, there's no gadgetry on the front wing, and they're free to do anything they want there. The front wing has been very important in the last 2 years in overall performance, as that's pretty much the only place where there's free reign on designs. It does absolutely everything, from channeling air around tires, generating front downforce, and feeding all sorts of channels to maximize rear downforce.

While Mercedes was very smart in figuring out that rebalancing aero with DRS open would be an advantage, they just went the wrong way in doing it.

[ExtremeSi]

Originally posted by rage2

Mercedes was not only limited to just flexi wings designs, but entire front wing design in general because they had to work everything around blowing the wing to reduce downforce.

A more detailed look at the DDRS implementations, when DRS is open, you have a huge inbalance of downforce. All of a sudden, you have a car that has loads of grip up front and nothing out back, which means if you turn, you'll spin like a top.

Mercedes decided to fix the imbalance by bleeding front downforce (for a small straight line boost), which allowed it to take high speed corners that doesn't require a lot of downforce with DRS open. Unfortunately, it was the wrong philosophy. There aren't that many high speed low downforce corners in the calendar, and if you've followed F1 long enough, downforce is king.

RBR as mentioned above, went in a different direction. They took a very small drag penalty to add more rear DF to correct the aero imbalance. That's much more useful, as it can be used pretty much anywhere except high downforce corners. As a bonus, there's no gadgetry on the front wing, and they're free to do anything they want there. The front wing has been very important in the last 2 years in overall performance, as that's pretty much the only place where there's free reign on designs. It does absolutely everything, from channeling air around tires, generating front downforce, and feeding all sorts of channels to maximize rear downforce.

While Mercedes was very smart in figuring out that rebalancing aero with DRS open would be an advantage, they just went the wrong way in doing it.

Interesting. I was wondering what was going on with Mercedes this year too. Good explanation.

Should be very interesting to see what they do with Hamilton next year!

[Cos]

.

[urrforce]

Originally posted by Cos
I am liking just lurking in this thread. Please carry on. :D


lol me too i dont know much about F1 but it's cool to learn here about the background kinda stuff lol

[Kramerica]

Rage definitely is the go to source for F1 technical knowledge, I've been trying to catch up though.

[rage2]

I just read a lot haha. Glad I can help by regurgitate what I've read lol.