Review - FREE breastfeeding classes in CGY

[babiedoll]

Because I have been trolling Beyond's reviews religiously forever it seems, I have decided to give back and provide a review of the free 2-hr breastfeeding class I took from the Calgary Mother's Milk Bank at 103-10333 Southport Rd SW this past Tuesday night.

http://calgarymothersmilkbank.ca/classes.html

We are expecting our first child and have heard the horror stories of how breastfeeding is actually not easy and certainly not something that seems to be innate therefore causing many new moms to suffer emotionally and quickly give up in tears (I personally know many that have gone through this). Compound this with the "teat nazi" nurses and healthcare professionals who push/insist on breastfeeding and you've got a giant recipe for post-partum anxiety/depression, which I am proactively trying to avoid. Anyways, I met Karen at the recent Babies & Tots show and she is an LPN and lactation educator who teaches prenatal classes as well as volunteers at the Calgary Mother's Milk Bank, which is a not-for-profit organization that takes donations of human breastmilk and pasteurizes them for newborns who, for whatever reason, don't have access to breastmilk. Like most (I'm sure), I suspected that this 2-hr course will just be a marketing spiel about how this organization is great and why we should donate our breastmilk. However, to my surprise, it wasn't at all! Of course there was a mini-spiel as to what they do and how they get their funding (which BTW is 100% from donations and not gov't funding even though AHS uses them) and a mini-tour of the facility (the place is tiny), the intro was at most about 15 minutes long. Then we immediately got started on the how-tos of breastfeeding! The information was really geared towards the 1st week of breastfeeding, which I guess is a huge developmental time for both mom and baby to establish the skill of breastfeeding (I didn't know this prior to the class :dunno: ) and not on how long and why you should breastfeed. The focus was on how to get baby to latch to mom's breasts, recognizing the signs of hunger with a newborn (which again, I discovered I had NO idea!), how to hold the newborn when breastfeeding, etc. Apparently, once a mom figures out how to get baby to latch on, it's pretty easy from there and then will have the choice of how long or short she will breastfeed for afterwards...

To be honest, I learned a lot from this class and left feeling a bit more prepared for the arrival of our baby! It turns out that there is a bit to learn when it comes to breastfeeding and babies don't just latch on like a monkey! Karen did not push you to breastfeed for any length of time as this decision is ultimately up to mom (and dad, for some) and there was absolutely no negative connotation or implications that moms who don't breastfeed are inadequate. In fact, Karen blamed much of it on "mis-education" or lack of education, which I agree with. Karen also answered all of our questions (and almost all of us started it with "this might be a dumb question, but...." she validated us by saying they are not dumb questions and should be asked, which I appreciated) with a pure supportive & educational tone. She basically just wanted us to leave informed on how to breastfeed and I did feel informed and better educated, which unfortunately the hospitals just don't have the time to anymore. She even lightly addressed that at the hospital there is a time crunch so what they show you may not work at home (because feeding doesn't have to be rushed) AND validated that moms don't actually see a lactation consultant unless something is wrong, which means that some (if not many) moms are leaving the hospital without any teachings - and I have heard this from my new mom friends who were discharged without any breastfeeding "lessons", which we all assumed we would get. In fact, apparently prenatal classes focus mostly on labor and will gloss over breastfeeding but I can't verify this as we start our prenatal classes this weekend....

So for those who have heard about this class and are wondering if it is worth the 2 hours, yes I really thought so. I should also mention that Karen does seem a bit pushy on bringing along your support person/partner/whatever is PC these days, I went by myself and it was just fine! Some fathers are into this kind of thing (and that's great), some aren't and I didn't feel judged at all being there by myself..in fact, another mom was there by herself too! This class is not a social thing and we weren't expected to mingle much nor were we given the time to mingle, which I liked because I am not looking to make new friends. My only advice is to bring a bottle of water with you as they don't provide that and there is a washroom there so no worries about that either.

Sorry for the long post, but in conclusion, this proved to be a great resource for moms (& dads)-to-be when it comes to "how to breastfeed". I figure if it doesn't work for me, at least I was informed about it and won't feel like I didn't give it a fair and educated try.

[clem24]

I am all for breastfeeding and all but herein begins the feminization of Beyond.

[babiedoll]

That was not my intention...Just wanted to offer a review that I thought some might appreciate

[Maxx Mazda]

Might as well raise the question of breastfeeding in public...

Please, use a blanket of something. I don't just want to see a random titty in the mall with a kid attached to it. The wifey and I havent had a kid yet, so I still look at titties as something I enjoy, not a simple feeding appliance - lets keep it that way.

[babiedoll]

I completely agree! Breastfeeding doesn't need to be displayed and I don't totally agree with or understand that fight....:dunno:

This was also not discussed in the class which I also appreciated

[bourge73]

Right on. Any pics? or?

[Type_S1]

Haha first thing that came to mind when reading the title was "fucking woman who think breast feeding in public is okay". I see that has alright been addressed.

[Hallowed_point]

Originally posted by Maxx Mazda
Might as well raise the question of breastfeeding in public...

Please, use a blanket of something. I don't just want to see a random titty in the mall with a kid attached to it. The wifey and I havent had a kid yet, so I still look at titties as something I enjoy, not a simple feeding appliance - lets keep it that way.


:werd: :clap:

[GS430]

How the hell did our mothers, and their mothers learn how to breastfeed without classes?

I think parents now a days are clueless and over protective, and depend too much on these courses and help classes.

Just my 0.02$, but OP good for you that you care about your future child to be taking these classes I guess.

:dunno:

[ExtraSlow]

I'll go the other way. Covering up actually can be a pretty big hassle for the mother, depending on the habits of the infant. If the kid needs to be constantly relatched by the mom, for instance

My wife breastfeeds in public with no cover, and y'all can fuck yourself if you don't like it. She's been asked to cover up, and she's declined. :drama: :whocares: :drama:

Also, I will support the OP, breastfeeding can be a lot more difficult that it's made out to be by the teat nazis. It hurts, it's difficult, and even though it's natural, it sure as heck ain't "easy" for everyone.

[babiedoll]

Originally posted by GS430
How the hell did our mothers, and their mothers learn how to breastfeed without classes?


That's what I thought at first, but then started hearing many of my friends having all sorts of problems! IMO, it could be from the evolution of products that we buy in prep for baby that has made it difficult and confusing...ie. you lift the baby up to the boob and not bring the boob to baby (learned this in the class too and I did not know this prior) with the latter often caused by nursing pillows being at the wrong height. Another thing too is that back in the late 70s and 80s the good ol marketing gurus slammed breastfeeding in attempts to sell formula by saying that formula is better for babies because its fortified and etc. which may have caused some lost teachings between generations (I know I fall into this category as my mother bought into it so I was not breastfed).

[EK 2.0]

Ok...someone has to do this...not that I am condoning it for others...but better I do it before some immature user...

Boobs...haha...you said "boobs"...haha...

On a related note...I am actually very impressed to see a new level of maturity for beyond...

Good on ya guys...:thumbsup:

And to keep it on topic..."breast is best"...and thank you for sharing this review...Even though there might not be an abundance of ladies in the breast feeding demographic on beyond...I am sure there are a lot of husbands and bf's who can share and pass along this info...

[baygirl]

I am shocked there are 11 replies in a boob thread and only one request for pics:eek:

[se7en]

that's what I came here for....heh. I said came.

on a side note, I know someone who still boob feeds at age 2.5

[LollerBrader]

Originally posted by GS430
How the hell did our mothers, and their mothers learn how to breastfeed without classes?



An interesting question, with a not-so intuitive answer.

Women previously learned from the collective knowledge of other women, but over the last 2 generations, much knowledge has been lost due to agressive promotion of formula as superior.

In the start, formula was developed for those who were unable to breastfeet - But profit motive lead a compromised health care system to promote formula over breastfeeding.

Additionally, modern, mechanized practices such as C-sections interfere with the process of establishing breastfeeding.

There are a lot of factors against breastfeeding these days - Non-institutional resources are being made available to support those that take the road less travelled.

[LollerBrader]

Originally posted by Maxx Mazda
Might as well raise the question of breastfeeding in public...

Please, use a blanket of something.

Would you want to eat your lunch with a blanket over your head?

[sputnik]

Neither my mother or mother-in-law breastfed.

My wife relied on resources like this for help.

[Unknown303]

Originally posted by ExtraSlow
I'll go the other way. Covering up actually can be a pretty big hassle for the mother, depending on the habits of the infant. If the kid needs to be constantly relatched by the mom, for instance

My wife breastfeeds in public with no cover, and y'all can fuck yourself if you don't like it. She's been asked to cover up, and she's declined. :drama: :whocares: :drama:

Also, I will support the OP, breastfeeding can be a lot more difficult that it's made out to be by the teat nazis. It hurts, it's difficult, and even though it's natural, it sure as heck ain't "easy" for everyone.

:werd: I'm for breasts in public. With a kid on them or not it's all good in my books. :thumbsup:

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by GS430
How the hell did our mothers, and their mothers learn how to breastfeed without classes?


Because they had their mothers, and grandmothers, and other relatives close at hand to teach them their experiences. If my wife and I had children right now, we wouldn't have anyone close (proximity wise) to learn from.

[Kloubek]

Normally this is a thread which would hold absolutely no interest to us. But being I have a 1 month old, it is very much in line with what we've been dealing with.

The resources available really helped my wife breast feed. Initially, our son was totally rejecting it and simply screaming his head off. He still is an extremely restless little boy and hard to keep from crying but he's taking the breast with fervor which rivals only porn videos.

I think that classes are very useful, and we certainly would have attended them if we knew they were available when he was being so difficult feeding.

As for feeding in public - I figure, each to their own. There is nothing unnatural about breast feeding so if I'm feeling uncomfortable about someone doing it in public, that's kinda my own problem. The only reason it is an issue is because of our society which seems to want a rather sterile living experience.

With that said, my wife cannot and will not breast feed in public... or even with a cover. When we go out, we always have formula with us in case he gets hungry. Yet another symptom of marrying someone squarer than a Rubiks cube I figure...

[ExtraSlow]

The collective knowledge thing is pretty significant. My Mother had three kids by c-section and bottle fed them all with formula. that was the prevailing view of what was best back then.

My wife gave birth to two kids in our home, and breastfed both of them. She couldn't rely on her mom or my mom for support for this, as that knowledge had been lost.

Maybe in a couple of generations we'll have regained the ability to pass this stuff on to our sons and daughters, or maybe we'll have some new method that is deemed to be "best" at that time.

[LollerBrader]

Originally posted by ExtraSlow
The collective knowledge thing is pretty significant. My Mother had three kids by c-section and bottle fed them all with formula. that was the prevailing view of what was best back then.


What's interesting, is that this is primarily a Western phenom.

Breastfeeding is the default for Muslims.

Among breastfeeding mothers, there's a general disdain for the brand "nestle". Apparently there was some scandal a few years back where they provided free formula to moms in Africa, and then once their own mild stopped flowing, then started charging for it. Deaths ensued, as many moms couldn't afford to pay.

It was your typical predatory free-hits-until-dependence model.

//I'm sure I've missed some details - That's the gist of the story as I've picked it up from my wife and her titty friends.

//I've also tried breastfeeding my kids, but was rejected on the basis of "yucky!! Hairy!!"

[G]

Originally posted by LollerBrader


What's interesting, is that this is primarily a Western phenom.

Breastfeeding is the default for Muslims.

Among breastfeeding mothers, there's a general disdain for the brand "nestle". Apparently there was some scandal a few years back where they provided free formula to moms in Africa, and then once their own mild stopped flowing, then started charging for it. Deaths ensued, as many moms couldn't afford to pay.

It was your typical predatory free-hits-until-dependence model.

//I'm sure I've missed some details - That's the gist of the story as I've picked it up from my wife and her titty friends.

//I've also tried breastfeeding my kids, but was rejected on the basis of "yucky!! Hairy!!"

Formula is primarily a First World option because of the price...it cost as much as cocain.... :nut: We tittied both our kids and they are healthy as an OX.

The Nestle scandal is true also what made it worse was that most poorer countries used dirty water to mix with the formula and the mothers tend to over diluted the formula because of cost....basically starving the child to death...bastards are as evil as Mosanto.

[sxtasy]

Congrads Kloubek!!


I have a 5.5 Month Old Boy and totally understand the struggles with breastfeeding. The hardest part is feeding on demand vs. scheduled feedings. I also found it hard at first to do so in public, but as time went by I felt more comfortable and relaxed. As our son went through growth spurts, I had a hard time producing enough milk to keep up with his feedings. I am now using both breast/formula as a way to simplify our day by creating a flexible routine. Our household is sleeping much better as a result :clap:

(post from joyridder ;D)

[Unknown303]

Originally posted by sxtasy
Congrads Kloubek!!


I have a 5.5 Month Old Boy and totally understand the struggles with breastfeeding. The hardest part is feeding on demand vs. scheduled feedings. I also found it hard at first to do so in public, but as time went by I felt more comfortable and relaxed. As our son went through growth spurts, I had a hard time producing enough milk to keep up with his feedings. I am now using both breast/formula as a way to simplify our day by creating a flexible routine. Our household is sleeping much better as a result :clap:

(post from joyridder ;D)

I have a 5 month old. Breast and bottle really helps make the days a little easier for both parents that's for sure.

[babiedoll]

Can't deny that breastfeeding is more economical, which I am all for even though I live in the western world! I'm not against formula at all but am glad that breastfeeding is now acknowledged as a learned skill! I'm glad I was encouraged by my "mommy friends" to go to this free class because they all wished this resource was around when they had their first baby (Calgary Mother's Milk Bank opened its doors April 2012 so the classes are pretty new).

Kinda strange that breastfeeding is such hot button topic! :confused:

[R-Audi]

I have a 4 month old son, and we had BF classes included with our Midwife clinic. My Wife was pretty worried about the whole thing as she had nothing but horror stories from her friends... end of the day its been all pretty straight forward, and she is shocked that more people havent gone for help on day one.

[Kloubek]

I think a lot of the difficulty for new mothers is getting the baby to latch properly. If he/she isn't, then it gets all sore and sometimes bleeds... which I can't imagine is a lot of fun and I think is what leads a lot of mothers to stop breast feeding earlier than they really should. That, along with the baby itself getting frustrated then crying, etc. It certainly is a lot more work for the baby than to use a free-flowing nipple. That's why when we were having difficulties when we bottle-fed him we only used the natural nipples, which forced him to remember to suck rather than have it just flow into his mouth.

My wife tried the nipple guard as well - which was an entirely useless exercise. (Though the nurse indicated the success rate was very high)

That's a shitty story about Nestle....

[babiedoll]

Ya, that Nestle case is awful! But I guess not surprising....

Also, in addition to the pain and injuries that can come from BF there is such a wierd stigma surrounding it! The public doesn't want to see it, advocates want you to be proud and display it, teat nazis make you feel inadequate if you don't get it right away, mothers who can BF turn their noses up at you if you use formula, mothers who struggle with BF turn the green-eyed monster at you if you can BF.....

And then you have a screaming baby, which the class was also so kind to tell you that it is extremely difficult to get a screaming baby to latch on so you need to calm them down first. They taught us a few ways to hold a newborn that would get them to stop crying that I'm hoping works!

Again, I was really surprised at all the little things I didn't know...

[Thomas Gabriel]

Just want to say that anyone using formula needs to check the ingredients carefully. If it uses a soy-based protein, you are causing permanent changes to your baby. I would stay away from any bottle that isn't glass as well.

[Kloubek]

^ Soy based might be one's few options when it comes to lactose intolerance.

[Thomas Gabriel]

Originally posted by Kloubek
^ Soy based might be one's few options when it comes to lactose intolerance.

Then they have to breastfeed always.

Edit: egg protein is a good as well.

[babiedoll]

Originally posted by Thomas Gabriel


Then they have to breastfeed always.

Edit: egg protein is a good as well.

Why? is it because of the estrogen?

[littledan]

apparently breast feeding helps the new mom lose the baby weight much faster

[Kloubek]

This is apparently true. It releases oxytocin which is the body's way of being told it doesn't have to support the baby in the womb anymore, so it starts returning it back to normal.

My wife experienced contractions from breast feeding, which was her body reacting to the breast feeding and internally doing it's thing. The problem is that she had a C-section, which caused her significant pain when that was happening....

[Unknown303]

Originally posted by Thomas Gabriel
Just want to say that anyone using formula needs to check the ingredients carefully. If it uses a soy-based protein, you are causing permanent changes to your baby. I would stay away from any bottle that isn't glass as well.


Originally posted by Thomas Gabriel


Then they have to breastfeed always.

Edit: egg protein is a good as well.

Do you have references to back all this up?

[Thomas Gabriel]

Originally posted by babiedoll


Why? is it because of the estrogen?

Studies have found dramatic feminizing effects such as a smaller penis, lower testosterone levels, changes in bone structure and a more "female" brain (can you say future transgender?).

Of course that doesn't mean it's OK for female infants either. Studies on acute effects of soy on female infants haven't found many issues but you have to wonder - why are girls getting their periods earlier? Why is the rate of breast cancer (a cancer related to estrogen metabolism) increasing?

[Unknown303]

The high intakes of estrogen in soy formula may have an adverse effect on development. Currently, there are no long-term studies to support this theory. An independent committee of the National Toxicology Program Center for the Evaluation of Risks to Human Reproduction that investigated the effects of soy infant formula on human development concluded that the effects on infant development should be of minimal concern.

Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/368263-pros-cons-of-feeding-soy-to-babies/#ixzz2CzOnyPsF


and



In summary, although studied by numerous investigators in various species, there is no conclusive evidence from animal, adult human, or infant populations that dietary soy isoflavones may adversely affect human development, reproduction, or endocrine function.

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/121/5/1062.full

[clem24]

Originally posted by Kloubek
This is apparently true. It releases oxytocin which is the body's way of being told it doesn't have to support the baby in the womb anymore, so it starts returning it back to normal.

My wife experienced contractions from breast feeding, which was her body reacting to the breast feeding and internally doing it's thing. The problem is that she had a C-section, which caused her significant pain when that was happening....

Herein lies the beauty of the human body.. The oxytocin released by breastfeeding sends signals to the uterus to contract after birth, which is meant to stop bleeding and clot blood (remember the placenta was attached only moments ago and pumping huge amounts of blood to the baby, and it has just fallen out). Without it, mom would probably die from blood loss.

With breastfeeding, the problems are many fold. Mainly, because yes IT IS DIFFICULT. It may hurt, sometimes mom may not feel she's doing it right, baby isn't getting enough, and yes it's very inconvenient. Not only that, but breastfed babies need to be fed more often because mom's milk passes through the gut quickly as it's very easily digestible (unlike formula). So really, just about everything works against mom when mom is completely sleep deprived and stressed out, where formula is really just a step away.

However, the benefits are enormous. Mom burns TONS of calories while breastfeeding (this is basically the holy grail of losing weight - losing calories without actually exercising!), huge benefits to health of baby, huge benefits to health of mom, and finally, it creates that really strong bond between mom and baby. To top it off, it's free.

We actually breastfed our first 2 kids right until the milk actually stopped flowing (i.e. wife got preggers hahaha). So first kid was right to 1.5 years old, and 2nd kid was to 1 year old (BTW this is just a supplement as they were already on solids at this point). Our third kid.. We'll see when the milk stops. (This is another thing that North American parents do - they feel there's some magic number like age 1 when they should stop doing it but across the globe, it's VERY common to continue to breastfeed your kid right past 2 or even up to 3 - there was a debate a while back regarding this on here somewhere).

As for feeding in public, by now, my wife just whips it out whenever/wherever. She's fairly discrete about it (i.e. your chances are seeing nipple very slim hahaha). BUT.. If there are other people around in CLOSE QUARTERS, we do respect that it might cause them discomfort, so we either drape a blanket over top or just find a different spot. The thing is.. If we are to respect the public's acceptance of feeding in public (and we strongly feel it's the most natural thing in the world) we, on our side, also need to respect that not everyone is comfortable with it.

[Thomas Gabriel]

There are definitely studies concluding that soy is of no concern. I think you'll find that most studies take a conservative approach and say isoflavones might not be bad, but that more research is needed. e.g.

http://europepmc.org/abstract/MED/12919490/reload=0;jsessionid=Hyeiarnu174rexsg8deD.10

I agree with this study in their recommendation that "most would argue for a precautionary approach to be taken in situations where there are potential developmental effects from the consumption of pharmacologically active compounds in infancy and childhood."

Why on Earth would you feed an infant soy when it could potentially be harmful? Something to keep in mind is that the effects of smoking/nicotine on babies is still being studied to this day (a study got released last week relating it to decreased IQ). 20 years ago, no one knew for sure if smoking harmed babies. But I'm pretty sure they knew that exposing them to smoke was a bad idea regardless.

The Whole Soy Story by Dr. Kaayla T Daniel is a very interesting read on the subject. It has 40 pages of citations on the harmful effects of soy.

[Unknown303]

Originally posted by Thomas Gabriel
There are definitely studies concluding that soy is of no concern. I think you'll find that most studies take a conservative approach and say isoflavones might not be bad, but that more research is needed. e.g.

http://europepmc.org/abstract/MED/12919490/reload=0;jsessionid=Hyeiarnu174rexsg8deD.10

I agree with this study in their recommendation that "most would argue for a precautionary approach to be taken in situations where there are potential developmental effects from the consumption of pharmacologically active compounds in infancy and childhood."

Why on Earth would you feed an infant soy when it could potentially be harmful? Something to keep in mind is that the effects of smoking/nicotine on babies is still being studied to this day (a study got released last week relating it to decreased IQ). 20 years ago, no one knew for sure if smoking harmed babies. But I'm pretty sure they knew that exposing them to smoke was a bad idea regardless.

The Whole Soy Story by Dr. Kaayla T Daniel is a very interesting read on the subject. It has 40 pages of citations on the harmful effects of soy.

However there is a huge difference between feeding in infant soy, and feeding an infant a soy based formula that is fortified to overcome the shortfalls of soy alone. In everything I've read I've never seen something even come remotely close to saying smaller penises or changes in bone structure are a result of feeding a baby soy based formula.

We should really not pollute this thread with a Soy debate when it was a great review on a good subject.

[LollerBrader]

Originally posted by Unknown303


We should really not pollute this thread with a Soy debate when it was a great review on a good subject.

Nicely said.

I suggest that any substitute for breast milk will have negative consequences for the infant.

Comparing the individual shortcomings of such substitutes misses the point.

[R-Audi]

With the worst being the smell of the shit.

I think one of the best things about BF (Besides the guys not really having to do much) is the fact that your kids poo is virtually odourless!

[Unknown303]

Originally posted by R-Audi
With the worst being the smell of the shit.

I think one of the best things about BF (Besides the guys not really having to do much) is the fact that your kids poo is virtually odourless!

:werd: there was a huge difference.

[LollerBrader]

Originally posted by R-Audi
With the worst being the smell of the shit.

I think one of the best things about BF (Besides the guys not really having to do much) is the fact that your kids poo is virtually odourless!

Goodness - If I got the "lite" version, I would have hated to witness to formula version.

"It certainly didn't smell like flowers".

[R-Audi]

From my understanding, its basically like complete grown up type smell. Eff that!

[89s1]

I haven't seen anyone mention a breast pump yet.

They are a godsend. She can pump in between feedings to stimulate milk production, and dad can feed the pumped breast milk when mom isn't around or you can bring it along if you're not cool with boobs in public.


We pumped a LOT of extra, and planned to send it with her to daycare, but ended up donating 50-60 bottles worth to one mom who couldn't produce, then the rest to another mom not able to breast feed for another reason I'm unsure of.


Get a good one, spend a little bit on it, you'll be glad you did.