Water Softener...

[EK 2.0]

Hey everyone...just looking into some things here right now. In all honesty it's more of a thread to see if one is warranted or worth it.

I don't need information on what brand is the Range Rover of softeners, or which is the Ferrari or anything just yet...but just some pros and cons about them...

A bit of background...I have lived in Calgary for 32 years of my life (which is all of it haha)....and in any of the houses I lived in growing up we have never had one. I have heard that it makes the water nicer to shower with, and its better for appliances, doing dishes and laundry...but would having one (obviously a good quality one) make a discernible difference??...I mean in all my life the appliances I have dealt with have lived super long lives with no negative impact I would think from the "regular" water that the city provides homes...

So yeah, I am just looking for yes or no answers...but please elaborate and share personal experiences if possible....

Thanks for your time everyone...

[Aleks]

I notice a big difference when we run our of salt in ours vs when it's running. It's very noticable in the shower. I also notice my hands are less dry in the winter with the softener. I bought the house with the softener though so now I just have to remember to buy the salt.

[ercchry]

yes and no, less hard water build up is great for pretty much everything that has water come out of it. if you have sensitive skin. also helps... but

i find that with it my showers double in time since i never feel like i have got all the soap off

[JordanLotoski]

Yes

[EK 2.0]

Originally posted by JordanLotoski
Yes


Jordan, I know I was looking for "yes" or "no" answers...but also some elaboration....How does your wife like it??...(sorry it has been a while since I have hit on her haha)...

I am really curious as to why they are becoming more and more recommended. Has the "hardness" of Calgary's water gotten worse??...does it vary from quadrant to quadrant of the city??...

[JordanLotoski]

hahah alright alright....Its one of those products that once you use you wont ever want to live without. We dont include ours when we sell our home, we just keep moving it with us.

[TurboMedic]

Yes. Our water is extremely hard. I bought one primarily because I didn't spend thousands on an amazing espresso setup just to have it ruined in a few years by bad water. The effects otherwise are good, so good infact, it convinced my parents to go get one shortly after (my mother also loves hers). I actually like the taste of softened water, and you do have better skin and hair...

Just make sure you get a metered one, not a regen every Xdays style....

[rage2]

Everything you need to know about Calgary's water hardness.

http://www.calgary.ca/UEP/Water/Pages/Drinking-water/Water-quality/Water-Hardness-FAQ.aspx

Growing up, I've never used a water softener. When I moved out, I installed one and will never go back.

[lauphman]

Once you go soft, you don't go back.

[redblack]

ive had one for 3 years now and its fantastic. I paid ~800 for a sears one and did the install myself. So far i average about 2-3 bags of salt a year.

[G]

Yes Definately a difference. My son use to red blotches during the winter not anymore with softwater. Tub, showe and toilets dont have calcium buildup so its easier to clean. I piped regular cold water to the kitchen tap and fridge to drink and cook with.

[89coupe]

Yes

No calcium deposits
Clothes are softer
Skin is less dry
Less detergent used

[tirebob]

I had one installed a couple years ago and will never go without again. It is easier on the appliances and one of the things I find is you can use half of the soap/detergent you normally do with the washing machine and dishwasher, with better results, and your clothes come out a bit softer and last longer. Might not sound like much, but it is long term savings. I find my skin is less dry as well.

In the beginning you will think you are not rinsing all the soap off in the shower because your skin won't get that squeaky clean feeling to the touch, but it is clean and all the soap is gone... It is something you get used to and your skin will be the better for it.

Dooooo it bro! You won't regret it...

[R-Audi]

Is there much difference with the top of the line model vs say a mid or a low? WHat kind of thing do you look for?


Im in a 2 year old house, and we have noticed a few issues because of calcium build up... probably worth looking into!

[InRich]

I have a top end model. and I go through 1 bag a year.

[89coupe]

Originally posted by InRich
I have a top end model. and I go through 1 bag a year.

LOL, WTF?

Do you live by yourself and never shower, do dishes, or wash clothes?

I'm a family of 4 and I've been in my house since July of 2011 and have gone through at least ten 20kg bags so far.

[JRSC00LUDE]

^ I think they were separate thoughts, water softeners then women.

EK - I don't have one but have been considering adding one. It's just so nice! Like mentioned above though, it's wierd to get used to in the shower because of the different feel!

[ercchry]

Originally posted by 89coupe


LOL, WTF?

Do you live by yourself and never shower, do dishes, or wash clothes?

I'm a family of 4 and I've been in my house since July of 2011 and have gone through at least ten 20kg bags so far.

eh, depends...

you are averaging 1 2/3 bags per year per person...

1. we dont know if he is buying the same sized bags
2. we dont know if one of you is running your softener on hot and cold lines or just hot

[lauphman]

Originally posted by R-Audi
Is there much difference with the top of the line model vs say a mid or a low? WHat kind of thing do you look for?


Im in a 2 year old house, and we have noticed a few issues because of calcium build up... probably worth looking into!


In the end soft water is soft water. How efficiently is the difference.
The cheaper models will use more salt, water, and require a electrical plug in. They will regenerate every single day at a set time even if its not needed, whereas a higher end model like a waterboss or kinetico will meter the water and regenerate only when needed. Choosing a softner like a waterboss or any all in one package has only one resin tank so if it decides to regenerate during your shower, it will switch to hard water for the rest of your shower until its done regenerating 1.5-2hours. Also most all in one softners have a life span of 8-10yrs. Going to a high end softner like a kinetico means having 2 tanks so you're never out of soft water because it will switch to the second one when needed, life span is longer because of the 2 tank system which can also be taken apart to refill the resin making it last as long as you're alive, kineticos use less salt and with there high end models can regenerate in about 25minutes, have a dechlorinater/ softner combo, and use no electricity.

[EK 2.0]

Of course you have a top end model InRich...could I have expected anything less from you??...haha...

Thanks for everyone's replies...

So far I cannot see anything negative about having a softener aside from missing it when it's gone haha...

Gonna look into this a little more and I'll let you all know when and if I pull the trigger...

Also...not sure if it makes a difference now...but a few cats voted "no"....I am curious as to why...so if you are back in here reading replies please let me know??...

[benyl]

Almost every current softner is a meter type now.

Electricity is pennies.

I can buy 4 of my Fleck 5600 SXT systems for the price of a Kinetico. It also has a chlorine filter.

As I am currently travelling, I am showering in non-softened water. It sucks.

[Cos]

.

[89coupe]

Originally posted by benyl
Almost every current softner is a meter type now.

Electricity is pennies.

I can buy 4 of my Fleck 5600 SXT systems for the price of a Kinetico. It also has a chlorine filter.

As I am currently travelling, I am showering in non-softened water. It sucks.

How much did you pay for your system?

I paid $3200 for my Kinetico which included the chlorine filter as well.

[benyl]

$790

http://www.aquatell.ca/water-softeners/fleck-water-softeners/fleck-5600-sxt-metered-water-softener-48000-grain

[r3ccOs]

Originally posted by benyl
$790

http://www.aquatell.ca/water-softeners/fleck-water-softeners/fleck-5600-sxt-metered-water-softener-48000-grain

that's a pretty good price

mine is a 38000, which is more than sufficient for a family of 4 to ensure it goes through a brine cycle weekly

if you size too big (like my neighbor) you just end up hitting your scheduled date, as opposed to requiring a recharge on those resin beads

there is a measure to how it works, how hard your water is, vs how many gallons consumed per person per household per day and trying to keep a recharge performed every 5-7 days to ensure your resin beads don't go bad and break.

installing a softener is easy as fcuk...
pex is so easy, I'm surprised they even need plumbers to put in water lines these days

[JRSC00LUDE]

Originally posted by 89coupe
I paid $3200 for my Kinetico which included the chlorine filter as well.

No offense but, jesus sucker christ! :eek:

I just showed that to my buddy here tonight and he just about spit out his drink! His company does plumbing on over 300 new home builds a year and he said anything over $1500-2k and you're going from "needed" to "lifted truck syndrome", did they throw in a Q-ray bracelet?

[89coupe]

Originally posted by JRSC00LUDE


No offense but, jesus sucker christ! :eek:

I just showed that to my buddy here tonight and he just about spit out his drink! His company does plumbing on over 300 new home builds a year and he said anything over $1500-2k and you're going from "needed" to "lifted truck syndrome", did they throw in a Q-ray bracelet?

I'd love you to show me where you can buy my system for $1500.

[lauphman]

well the 2 tank softeners are $1000+ because its basically 2 softeners in one. while one is regenerating it will switch to the other one giving zero downtime on soft water unlike the cheaper options, making them last twice as long and also include whole home dechlorinators which are $500+ on there own...

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d50/lauphman/4040s_jpg.gif

vs

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d50/lauphman/1039-6616-fleck-5600-sxt-metered-water-softener-48000-grain-1.jpg

[r3ccOs]

Originally posted by 89coupe


I'd love you to show me where you can buy my system for $1500.

I have to say tho mate... show me how your system is 5 times better than the Kenmore one I installed?

the only difference is I have a electronically controlled, vs mechanically controlled valve, and you have the same capacity brine tank as mine, but 2 of them...

yes... my softener regenerates once a week, so there is a 50 minute downtime at 3:00 AM

if you set the right "grain" setting for your household your softener will never run out of soft water

[89coupe]

I wanted Kinetico, so really it didn't matter what else was out there.

Here is a photo of my setup.

http://www.bradstaylor.com/images/watersoftener.jpg

[yellowsnow]

i got the fleck 5600 too at aquatell.ca as well. came pre-assembled, just needed to plumb it in.

i was considering the kinetico system at the same time, but couldn't see how that system was worth 5x the price. it's just a water softener

[lauphman]

Originally posted by r3ccOs


I have to say tho mate... show me how your system is 5 times better than the Kenmore one I installed?

the only difference is I have a electronically controlled, vs mechanically controlled valve, and you have the same capacity brine tank as mine, but 2 of them...

yes... my softener regenerates once a week, so there is a 50 minute downtime at 3:00 AM

if you set the right "grain" setting for your household your softener will never run out of soft water

is the kenmore metering or did you just have it set to regenerate once a week? what if one week you use more water and run out before regeneration?

the kinetico 4040s regenerates fast 11 minutes, uses only 7 gallons of water and will have zero down time on soft water. It will also have a whole home dechlorinator.

brine tank is what holds the salt, not the resin tanks. 4040s has a small brine tank that's 20'' tall, and im sure the kinetico system will be 60-70% more efficient then a standard metered softener which means a lot of savings. 420lbs of salt;4150gals water.

[lauphman]

Originally posted by yellowsnow
i got the fleck 5600 too at aquatell.ca as well. came pre-assembled, just needed to plumb it in.

i was considering the kinetico system at the same time, but couldn't see how that system was worth 5x the price. it's just a water softener


aquakinetico or kinetico start at around the 1200 mark.

[benyl]

Originally posted by lauphman
well the 2 tank softeners are $2000+ because its basically 2 softeners in one. while one is regenerating it will switch to the other one giving zero downtime on soft water unlike the cheaper options, making them last twice as long and also include whole home dechlorinators which are $500+ on there own...

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d50/lauphman/4040s_jpg.gif

vs

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d50/lauphman/1039-6616-fleck-5600-sxt-metered-water-softener-48000-grain-1.jpg

http://www.aquatell.ca/water-softeners/fleck-water-softeners/fleck-9100sxt-twin-48000-grain-water-softenerhttp://www.aquatell.ca/sites/default/files/files/products/5893-6532-fleck-9100sxt-twin-32000-grain-water-softener.jpg

[lauphman]

i was going off the 790$ model and more or less referring back to JRSC00LUDE's post and your comment of 5 flecks for the price of one kinetico. Fleck is $1443.14 plus gst. kineticos from the 1200's. So basically the same thing except for the local kinetico service, and much higher efficiency on the more $$$ kineticos.

[JRSC00LUDE]

Originally posted by 89coupe


I'd love you to show me where you can buy my system for $1500.

I didn't say you could, I said spending that much on a system is spending money for the sake of spending money and unnecessary.

It wasn't said to argue. Personally, I'll trust the opinion of a pro on the subject. Some people buy the paint protection at the dealership or the extended warranty at future shop too, to each their own.

:)

[C_Dave45]

Does EVERYONE in Calgary have one?

I used to have one in the house. Had problems with it so I threw it out. Didn't really notice any difference and have been without one for the past 5 years.

Am I the only one?

[89coupe]

Originally posted by JRSC00LUDE


I didn't say you could, I said spending that much on a system is spending money for the sake of spending money and unnecessary.

It wasn't said to argue. Personally, I'll trust the opinion of a pro on the subject. Some people buy the paint protection at the dealership or the extended warranty at future shop too, to each their own.

:)

It's funny because my plumber buddy along with the plumber who installed my system and the plumber who installed my hot water tanks said they all use Kinetico and would not use any other system.

Everyone has an opinion. In the end it's whatever you are comfortable spending.

[JRSC00LUDE]

Originally posted by 89coupe


It's funny because my plumber buddy along with the plumber who installed my system and the plumber who installed my hot water tanks said they all use Kinetico and would not use any other system.

Everyone has an opinion. In the end it's whatever you are comfortable spending.

Exactly, it is just opinion, spend whatever you want as long as you're happy with the purchase. Some people will only buy BMW's, some with only buy Lexus. Like I said, not trying to argue.

The point of the thread was to give input as to whether or not it's worth it to get one for Arif. The consensus is yes it is, but my input was that you don't need to spend $3k+ to do it. You can, but you don't NEED to. Just like you can spend 2K on a watch or 10k, $60 on a steak or $160.00. There comes a point where you're paying for something intangible, beyond the quality of the physical product. It's true in every consumer good.

:thumbsup:

[Strider]

Originally posted by lauphman
i was going off the 790$ model and more or less referring back to JRSC00LUDE's post and your comment of 5 flecks for the price of one kinetico. Fleck is $1443.14 plus gst. kineticos from the 1200's. So basically the same thing except for the local kinetico service, and much higher efficiency on the more $$$ kineticos.

So if there's no difference between a $1400 twin tank Fleck and a $1200 aquakinetic, then what's the difference between a $1200 aquakinetic and the $3200 kinetico that 89coupe has?

Just curious, because I see no difference between my twin tank Fleck and the $3200 Kinetico (aside from $0.05 of electricity mine uses in a month and $2000 in my wallet).


OP: just get the softener. If absolutely nothing else, it's worth it just to cut down on cleaning hard water stains on the shower glass.

and +1 for www.aquatell.ca

[lauphman]

The kinetico 4040s will regenerate in 11 minutes using only 7 gallons of water and 1 pound of salt, meaning some families can use as little as a bag per year. Just a lot more efficiency is the difference in price.

[Strider]

Originally posted by lauphman
The kinetico 4040s will regenerate in 11 minutes using only 7 gallons of water and 1 pound of salt, meaning some families can use as little as a bag per year. Just a lot more efficiency is the difference in price.

Isn't regeneration time a non-issue with twin tank setups?
Is the $1200 kinetico much less efficient then?

End of the day, I use about 3-4 bags per year - so at most $15 per year more than the Kinetico 4040, plus $0.60 in electricity... It'll take a looong time to make up $2000.

I guess the "efficiency" sale is for the eco-yogis.

[ZeroGravity]

We installed a softener about a year ago, and we're on our third bag of salt. The initial bag which came with the softener / installation. And the two other, we bought from costco. We use a lot of water in washing due to having a newborn / toddler + those standard issued top load washers.

A bit off topic here... For those who have the kinetico system installed with dechlorinator and pre-filter, how did you get that pre-filter off? I want to replace the filter but I couldn't remove the cover at all. The whole thing (attached pipes + the tiny 4040 tanks) move when I try to put more force into unscrewing it. My last resort is to call Trail to send people out to replace it.

TIA.

[89coupe]

Originally posted by ZeroGravity
We installed a softener about a year ago, and we're on our third bag of salt. The initial bag which came with the softener / installation. And the two other, we bought from costco. We use a lot of water in washing due to having a newborn / toddler + those standard issued top load washers.

A bit off topic here... For those who have the kinetico system installed with dechlorinator and pre-filter, how did you get that pre-filter off? I want to replace the filter but I couldn't remove the cover at all. The whole thing (attached pipes + the tiny 4040 tanks) move when I try to put more force into unscrewing it. My last resort is to call Trail to send people out to replace it.

TIA.

Are you talking about the big orange canister with the filter inside? Just turn it, it takes some muscle but it will unscrew. Make sure you drain the water first and turn off your system before doing it, obviously.

[lauphman]

Originally posted by Strider


Isn't regeneration time a non-issue with twin tank setups?
Is the $1200 kinetico much less efficient then?

End of the day, I use about 3-4 bags per year - so at most $15 per year more than the Kinetico 4040, plus $0.60 in electricity... It'll take a looong time to make up $2000.

I guess the "efficiency" sale is for the eco-yogis.

Yes not a issue with downtime, but now it's how much water it's using. 11 minutes and 7gallons vs 1-2hours and up to 100gallons.

As for removing the filter housing there should be a bracket on top of it that can be screwed to the wall to make it a lot easier. If not try again and remember to push up on the housing while unscrewing because it locks into place while under pressure.

[ZeroGravity]

Originally posted by 89coupe


Are you talking about the big orange canister with the filter inside? Just turn it, it takes some muscle but it will unscrew. Make sure you drain the water first and turn off your system before doing it, obviously.

Yes, the orange canister. I guess I'm just a weakling :P

I tried with bare hands and even one of those rubberband type "wrench". But when I try to turn it, the piping attached to the filter moved along with the tanks :P

Thanks.

[ZeroGravity]

Originally posted by lauphman


As for removing the filter housing there should be a bracket on top of it that can be screwed to the wall to make it a lot easier. If not try again and remember to push up on the housing while unscrewing because it locks into place while under pressure.

my setup is not sitting against the wall, but good tip about pushing it upwards... thanks.

[maxout]

Well I have read everything that everyone mentioned and in works to purchase one as well.

By the information it does not really matter what you get as long as you have one.

Question is where to purchase one locally that can also do installs. I am not a handy person and hate doing things like install as I alway second guess my self.

Can someone recommend a place or person. Even a inside beyonder that sells these would be great. I looked at the mention above aquatell howeve then dont seem to be local.

TIA

[lauphman]

Any plumbing company can get one for you or you can order from online and have them install it. Trail installs whirlpool and kinetico softners. Emco offers The waterboss brand. installs start in the 150$ range and go up from there if bypasses are needed for the outside hose bibs and kitchen. Or you can do it yourself by renting the pex crimper from homedepot and buying the parts; 50$ or less.

[jav_]

how do the culligan water softeners compare to the previous brands mentioned?

[autosm]

Costco has a 40000 grain unit for a little over 400$.

[R-Audi]

Like $149.99 over $400?

http://www.costco.ca/.product.10369442.html?cm_sp=RichRelevance-_-categorypageHorizontalTop-_-PopularProductsInCategory&cm_vc=categorypageHorizontalTop|PopularProductsInCategory

[LOLzilla]

Anybody using a salt-less system?

Curious how good that Costco system is. Just getting my knowledge ramped up. I bought a house built in 1961 and I'm fixing a broken plumbing due to hard water build up.

EnRich which system are you using?

[autosm]

Originally posted by R-Audi
Like $149.99 over $400?

http://www.costco.ca/.product.10369442.html?cm_sp=RichRelevance-_-categorypageHorizontalTop-_-PopularProductsInCategory&cm_vc=categorypageHorizontalTop|PopularProductsInCategory


No it was not 549.00$, still a good price delivered.

[natty54]

I think I am alone on this one but I hate water softeners. Whenever I shower with it I always still feel soapy

[Khyron]

Always had one growing up, so we put one in our new build in cougar ridge. After 10 years, moved to an older house that had one previously but previous owners had disconnected when it stopped working. Thought I'd try without one.

Dishes were TERRIBLE - lot's of residue and crusties when they came out of the dishwasher, tried CLR, vinegar, jet dry, etc but no good. Kids rashes were worse, wife had worse dry skin.

So I caved and put a cheapish but decent unit in via Pete the plumber for ~1000 all in and everything was resolved. The dishes are spotless now. You have to figure all that crap was in the laundry, the fridge filter, the shower heads, etc. Water is cheap, so I regen at 2am - the fancy units try and reduce this but it's pennies so I don't care. Salt is trivial as well; bag every few months.

So yes, have one, never going back to not - at least not in Calgary.

[maxout]

That Costco one seems like a pretty good bargain for 40000 grain however what would a average home need/

will this suffice for 2 adults and 1 baby. Also if I have family come stay with me for summer will I run out or do I just have it regen more times a week?

Looking to pull the trigger to buy this by the end of this week.

TIA

[r3ccOs]

Originally posted by maxout
That Costco one seems like a pretty good bargain for 40000 grain however what would a average home need/

will this suffice for 2 adults and 1 baby. Also if I have family come stay with me for summer will I run out or do I just have it regen more times a week?

Looking to pull the trigger to buy this by the end of this week.

TIA


40000 @ 18gpg... you're pretty much good for a family of 4

[black_2.5RS]

For those of you that ordered your water softeners from Aquatell.

Did you guys get:
- Turbulator upgrade (I heard these things conceptually are great but mechanically fail regularly)
- Fine mesh resin upgrade (i'm thinking no since iron is treated at the water treatment plant)
- Brine grid (this one seems reasonable but i've never seen salt clump together in the tank at my parents house)
- Whole home cholorine removal (i'm thinking no to this since cholorine is treated at the water treatment plant)

[lauphman]

For everyone looking at buying a softner locally; emco currently has the waterboss for 749.99 which is a great softner aswell. All in one package design, chlorine filter, metering, and not too shabby on efficiency. Easy install aswell for the diy'ers. Only downfall is that's its not 2 tank system.

http://www.waterboss.com/watersoftenermodel950.shtml