new tsuu tina chief want toll ring road [Archive] - Beyond.ca - Car Forums

Toma

12-01-2012, 07:58 PM

I'm on the Indians on this one. Nothing obligates them to help out, or try and maximize their benefit. That is just good business.... versus the comments here, "block access" etc, well that's just revenge.

The City of Calgary has been run by cluster fucks, that plan to fail by failing to plan.

I had a sign that once hung at my work. It said:

"Failing to plan on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part."

Our government is reactionary, instead of pro active. The widening of roads, bridges, and new highways today, is what we needed last year or even 10 years ago lol. They should be planning 10 to 25 years in advance.

Sorry, no remorse for stupidity.

My favorite T-Shirt I wear;

http://www.bigdogs.com/shared/images/zoom/1102-2588-418.jpg

vengie

12-01-2012, 08:00 PM

I am so god damn tired of this bullshit. Block off access to their casino already, start playing fucking hardball!! Why is everyone so lenient against minorities! Who cares if they throw the race card!! You can't please everyone... This shit has been going on far too long

Maxt

12-01-2012, 08:30 PM

Originally posted by darthVWader
Nenshi should Indian leg wrestle him for the land. Best out of 7
Wouldnt work, Nenshi cant see his own legs.

jacky4566

12-01-2012, 08:39 PM

Toll Road! Make the road users pay for the roads? Just makes sense.

LRT riders have to pay for the system so why not road users.

syritis

12-01-2012, 08:53 PM

Originally posted by Toma
I'm on the Indians on this one. Nothing obligates them to help out, [...]

except for the land, the pay cheques and the privileged rights they've gotten to "help them out". yeah they have no reason to ever show some sort of appreciation or gratitude for being spoon fed by the tax payers that could really use that road.

Originally posted by jacky4566
Toll Road! Make the road users pay for the roads? Just makes sense.

LRT riders have to pay for the system so why not road users.

we do already pay to use the road with gas tax and registration fees. it's the cyclists that use them without paying a thing then belligerently demand they own the road.

effingidiot

12-01-2012, 09:01 PM

Originally posted by vengie
I am so god damn tired of this bullshit. Block off access to their casino already, start playing fucking hardball!! Why is everyone so lenient against minorities! Who cares if they throw the race card!! You can't please everyone... This shit has been going on far too long

You need to check your privilege.

CanmoreOrLess

12-01-2012, 09:09 PM

Will they take silver nickels?

ZenOps

12-01-2012, 09:26 PM

Originally posted by CanmoreOrLess
Will they take silver nickels?

Nope, but unlike the rest of Canada that takes $20 to $100 plastic meat tokens - they might take plastic beads.

Go4Long

12-01-2012, 09:34 PM

Originally posted by ZenOps

Nope, but unlike the rest of Canada that takes $20 to $100 plastic meat tokens - they might take plastic beads.

Or some small pox infected blankets? to far?

As an aside, toll roads for normal uses are an effective way to fund infrastructer projects. Coquahalla was a good example, and they're widely used throughout many states. Road projects get finished faster as they're private contractors instead of city workers, and the private company doesn't start making money until the project is complete so they're actually motivated to get it done in a timely fashion.

syritis

12-01-2012, 09:42 PM

Originally posted by Go4Long

Or some small pox infected blankets? to far?

As an aside, toll roads for normal uses are an effective way to fund infrastructer projects. Coquahalla was a good example, and they're widely used throughout many states. Road projects get finished faster as they're private contractors instead of city workers, and the private company doesn't start making money until the project is complete so they're actually motivated to get it done in a timely fashion.

all of Calgary's roads are built by contractors and the city seems to have no problem throwing more money at a half assed job.
the city/province would still have to pay for the job upfront, tolls are just a cash grab after the fact.

vengie

12-01-2012, 09:49 PM

Originally posted by effingidiot

You need to check your privilege.

Why? Because I told it like it is? I don't care to hear the "we put them in residential school" bullshit excuse! I have been on numerous reserves around Alberta as my aunt is a liaison for treaty 7, and my mother is a financial advisor for aboriginals.

Our handouts actually perpetuate the cycle natives are in. They end up living in dilapidated shambles because they do not value or respect the handouts the canadian gov offers. I challenge you to spend any amount of time on a reserve and come back and challenge me on my viewpoint.

Ps what about the natives checking THEIR privelage... Last time I checked I was not handed $xxx,xxx for turning 18, free housing, no taxes etc...

By the way, before you spout off about me hating natives, I am Metis.

Sophal

12-01-2012, 11:03 PM

08 InE]Originally posted by vengie

Why? Because I told it like it is? I don't care to hear the "we put them in residential school" bullshit excuse! I have been on numerous reserves around Alberta as my aunt is a liaison for treaty 7, and my mother is a financial advisor for aboriginals.

Our handouts actually perpetuate the cycle natives are in. They end up living in dilapidated shambles because they do not value or respect the handouts the canadian gov offers. I challenge you to spend any amount of time on a reserve and come back and challenge me on my viewpoint.

Ps what about the natives checking THEIR privelage... Last time I checked I was not handed $xxx,xxx for turning 18, free housing, no taxes etc...

By the way, before you spout off about me hating natives, I am Metis. [/QUOTE]

When I was a power line contractor and seeing everything first hand while working on many reserves/settlements I agree with every thing you said.

FraserB

12-01-2012, 11:07 PM

Fence (topped with razor wire) off the whole reservation and put a toll road into Calgary and toll foot paths into Calgary. Make the road into the casino a toll road. $20 a person to come into the city and $50 a car to go to the casino. Then the ring road can be a toll road through the reserve.

msommers

12-01-2012, 11:31 PM

Originally posted by vengie

Why? Because I told it like it is? I don't care to hear the "we put them in residential school" bullshit excuse! I have been on numerous reserves around Alberta as my aunt is a liaison for treaty 7, and my mother is a financial advisor for aboriginals.

Our handouts actually perpetuate the cycle natives are in. They end up living in dilapidated shambles because they do not value or respect the handouts the canadian gov offers. I challenge you to spend any amount of time on a reserve and come back and challenge me on my viewpoint.

Ps what about the natives checking THEIR privelage... Last time I checked I was not handed $xxx,xxx for turning 18, free housing, no taxes etc...

By the way, before you spout off about me hating natives, I am Metis.

I would tend to agree. But trying to sell reserves on "not giving you money from now on will help you in the long run" is a fucking hard sale to make. Sadly, I don't see things changing for generations to come.

vengie

12-02-2012, 03:45 AM

Originally posted by msommers

I would tend to agree. But trying to sell reserves on "not giving you money from now on will help you in the long run" is a fucking hard sale to make. Sadly, I don't see things changing for generations to come.

I agree, it simply will not happen. What I am saying is we as a society need to get tougher and learn to say "fuck off" enough is enough! Another example is Quebec and their equalization payments.

People are far too liberal nowadays and are afraid of offending anyone... But I'm sorry, that's not how the world works, and minorities are using that to their advantage, and that is unfair to the rest of us who actually pay taxes.

Unknown303

12-02-2012, 04:12 AM

ZenOps

12-02-2012, 06:30 AM

If the Tsuu Tina were smart, they would be giving out one free casino chip good for one pull at a nickel slot machine, and a free expired shrimp cocktail coupon to anyone using the road.

Just sayin.... ;)

Seth1968

12-02-2012, 07:50 AM

Great posts Vengie.

I suspect that I, along with the majority of tax payers, hold similar opinions to yours. Too bad are government doesn't seem to give a shit.

msommers

12-02-2012, 08:32 AM

I'm not sure that it's the government doesn't give a shit, becauselegally they can't stop giving money out.

Maxt

12-02-2012, 08:49 AM

Forget about the Tsuu T'ina alignment, tunnel it under the weaselhead. At least with a tunnel there wont be any future arguments about snow removal and winter maintenance on the road.

cancer man

12-02-2012, 08:56 AM

Give them like 10,000 feral pigs that will take their mind off things.

Seth1968

12-02-2012, 09:04 AM

Originally posted by msommers
I'm not sure that it's the government doesn't give a shit, becauselegally they can't stop giving money out.

It's the government that make the laws. They could also change the laws at any time based on the opinion of the taxpayers. Now that would be a true democracy. Too bad we don't live in one.

nonofyobiz

12-02-2012, 09:47 AM

Originally posted by vengie

I agree, it simply will not happen. What I am saying is we as a society need to get tougher and learn to say "fuck off" enough is enough! Another example is Quebec and their equalization payments.

People are far too liberal nowadays and are afraid of offending anyone... But I'm sorry, that's not how the world works, and minorities are using that to their advantage, and that is unfair to the rest of us who actually pay taxes.

People are just weak and afraid these days. Especially in Canada it seems. Afraid to stand for anything, afraid to speak out, afraid to inconvenience ourselves or anyone else, and especially afraid to offend.

Back on topic, I definitely think the city and province will end up giving WAY too much away to the Tsuu Tina. They were already offered a HUGE amount of land in exchange and a pile of money for this road ...and that wasn't good enough. They are holding out because they know the longer it goes on the sweeter its going to get for them. They don't need the ring road at all.

Sure, as someone said, you can't fault them for negotiating the best deal possible, but we can fault our politicians and bureaucrats for eventually being pushovers and giving up way too much

kertejud2

12-02-2012, 09:59 AM

Originally posted by Seth1968

It's the government that make the laws. They could also change the laws at any time based on the opinion of the taxpayers. Now that would be a true democracy. Too bad we don't live in one.
The problem is that it isn't that simple thanks to paired sections of the Constitution (Sections 25 and 35 to be precise).

Effectively one granted aboriginals certain rights and the other protected them from any rights being taken away. While that sounds redundant it has created some annoying precedents that have basically created a legal and legislative minefield for which is is exceedingly difficult to deal with. One of the precedents is that to change either of these sections the "simple" amending formula no longer applies as the government must now consult with aboriginal leaders before going through with an amending formula. And so on and so forth. We can thank Trudeau for that one.

And despite being one of the four holdouts for the UN's 'Declaration of Rights for Indigenous Peoples' (along with the U.S., Australia and New Zealand) we eventually caved because apparently people give a shit about what we do in the UN (see: Canada not endorsing a Palestinian state) which means we are supposed to "require governments to secure the consent of indigenous peoples regarding matters of general public policy" and "allow for the re-opening or repudiation of historically settled land claims". While there's nothing legally binding about the declaration, that hasn't stopped many aboriginal groups (and their lawyers) from pointing to it every chance they get in court. Which is a lot, because they have a lot of land claims they want re-opened.

Seth1968

12-02-2012, 10:26 AM

Originally posted by kertejud2

The problem is that it isn't that simple thanks to paired sections of the Constitution (Sections 25 and 35 to be precise).

Thanks for the reply, but the Constitution is just "laws" so to speak.

My point is, we are the taxpayers, and we should have the right to determine where our money goes (outside of necessities such as health care and infrastructure).

Just because a law or agreement seemed right 100 years ago, doesn't make it so today.

speedog

12-02-2012, 10:39 AM

Originally posted by Seth1968

Thanks for the reply, but the Constitution is just "laws" so to speak.

My point is, we are the taxpayers, and we should have the right to determine where our money goes (outside of necessities such as health care and infrastructure).

Just because a law or agreement seemed right 100 years ago, doesn't make it so today.
So Seth1968 - have you, as a taxpayer, exercised your right outside of anything more than just marking an X on the ballot sheet(s) come election time?

CanmoreOrLess

12-02-2012, 10:47 AM

Originally posted by Maxt
Forget about the Tsuu T'ina alignment, tunnel it under the weaselhead. At least with a tunnel there wont be any future arguments about snow removal and winter maintenance on the road.

I am all for a toll road, you want to use it, pay for it. The system works very well all over the world.

I am for this tunnel activity, Calgary can really feast on this for tourism, combined with the airport tunnel we will make Europe and their tunnels look like the work of gophers.

Calgary come for the Stampede, stay for the tunnels.ª

Calgary, far more than animal abuse ten days a year, we got's tunnels.ª

Calgary, cut us a deal or we go down on you.ª

Seth1968

12-02-2012, 10:56 AM

Originally posted by speedog

So Seth1968 - have you, as a taxpayer, exercised your right outside of anything more than just marking an X on the ballot sheet(s) come election time?

There is no Revenue Canada form that asks if I want part of my paycheck to go to people who just sit on their ass all day, alcoholics, drug addicts, and the coddling of criminals.

My whole point is that there SHOULD be such a form.

CanmoreOrLess

12-02-2012, 11:03 AM

Originally posted by Seth1968

There is no Revenue Canada form that asks if I want part of my paycheck** to go to people who just sit on their ass all day, alcoholics, drug addicts, and the coddling of criminals.

My whole point is that there SHOULD be such a form.

You could move to many countries where there is no social net or social anything, or perhaps join the military and go for free. Easier to complain than actually do something about it, right sport?

**Paycheque is how Wii due hour spellin' hear inn the north.

Toma

12-02-2012, 11:15 AM

Originally posted by syritis

except for the land, the pay cheques and the privileged rights they've gotten to "help them out". yeah they have no reason to ever show some sort of appreciation or gratitude for being spoon fed by the tax payers that could really use that road.

we do already pay to use the road with gas tax and registration fees. it's the cyclists that use them without paying a thing then belligerently demand they own the road.

My mistake, I thought reserves and financial help were a settlement for committing a genocide against them, murdering them by the millions, and stealing their land.

Toma

12-02-2012, 11:18 AM

So you guys disagree??

Poor future planning and reactionary governing by our government is the Natives fault.

They are trying to build today, what should have been built 10+ years ago.

It's like Hospitals. Shutting them down when our population was growing.

OU812

12-02-2012, 11:21 AM

Originally posted by nonofyobiz

People are just weak and afraid these days. Especially in Canada it seems. Afraid to stand for anything, afraid to speak out, afraid to inconvenience ourselves or anyone else, and especially afraid to offend.

agree 100000000000000000000000000%

speedog

12-02-2012, 11:21 AM

Originally posted by Seth1968
There is no Revenue Canada form that asks if I want part of my paycheck to go to people who just sit on their ass all day, alcoholics, drug addicts, and the coddling of criminals.

My whole point is that there SHOULD be such a form.
So what you're really saying is that you're just a taxpayer that votes and does nothing more to exercise his rights. You probably vote for the same party come every election and you probably do not make your voice/concerns known to many outside of some anonymous posts in on-line forums and such.

That said, I have to say that I agree with vengie - I have a good friend who is a full blood native who opted to move off of the reserve and get a career. This friend said it is all too easy of a trap too fall into - to stay on the reserve, take the handouts and continue to muddle along in the only lifestyle that he (as a child) and so many of his earlier generations knew.

So back to Seth1968's comments - things will only change if the majority of Canadians want this change to come about. Bleating about the problem anonymously in an on-line forum will accomplish exactly nothing - people will need to get up off of their asses and write letters, organize campaigns and actively nominate (and elect into office) political party reps whose feet can be held to the fire. Problem is that most of us are lazy slobs when it comes to issues that can only be resolved via a major mind-set shift amongst Canadians and those that we elect into power - we'd rather just sit on our fannies and whine from the sidelines.

Me, I am one of them lazy slobs for the most part - yeah, I've been involved in grassroots campaigns that have seen the the goals of their like-minded supporters come to fruition, but that has mostly only been at a civic level. To tackle things on a provincial or national level is a whole different beast. That said, while I take issue with the benefits that the Constitution allows our native peoples, it does not concern me enough to want to actively pursue getting the necessary changes in place to fix the problem. As such, if you Seth1968, wants such a CRA form, then start by at least writing a few letters to your elected reps and maybe even go a bit further by seeking out an organization that is fighting for what you want and support them is some fashion - anonymously commenting in a forum will do exactly nothing.

kertejud2

12-02-2012, 11:22 AM

Originally posted by Seth1968

Thanks for the reply, but the Constitution is just "laws" so to speak.

Well, no. Laws are easy to change, the Constitution is not. The Constitution determines whether or not laws are actually legal.

My point is, we are the taxpayers, and we should have the right to determine where our money goes (outside of necessities such as health care and infrastructure).

Taxpayers =/= citizens. Citizens have the right to determine where money goes regardless of how much in tax they pay or whether they pay tax at all. We can't determine whatever we want, even less right to determine how money is sent to natives.

Just because a law or agreement seemed right 100 years ago, doesn't make it so today.

While that may be true, it is unfortunately irrelevant for some things.

OU812

12-02-2012, 11:22 AM

Toma

12-02-2012, 11:29 AM

Originally posted by OU812

Like how mamy other similar events in history? Very few are still paying generations later.
I dunno, how many genocide of this caliber have we seen??

What's enough time for wiping out 20 million? 100 million?

And they are still here, and still have land here. It's their land. Why are we entitled to it?

The "problem" is the massive cultural and societal difference between us. It's not like the "bad ones" stay on the reserve.

I've worked with many natives, and the most common issue is leaving the reserve, trying to "make it" in our world, and many fail, and then go back to the reserve. These are the ones that seem to be worst off.

The reserve for many is a reactionary "security net" to fall back on if they cant overcome the cultural and societal differences.

I know you idiots think its easy.

But you know that old Native saying, something about walking in another mans mokasins lol ;)

CanmoreOrLess

12-02-2012, 11:32 AM

Originally posted by OU812

Like how mamy other similar events in history? Very few are still paying generations later.

What are these "events" you write of? I don't expect dozens of like situations, just three would be enough. Ought to be easy as you seem to have these facts close at hand. One hopes these "events" will be similar to what we have here in Canada for ease in understanding.

OU812

12-02-2012, 11:34 AM

Originally posted by Toma

I dunno, how many genocide of this caliber have we seen??

What's enough time for wiping out 20 million? 100 million?

Its closer to 3 - 4 million and that was all of North America,

speedog

12-02-2012, 11:34 AM

Originally posted by Toma
My mistake, I thought reserves and financial help were a settlement for committing a genocide against them, murdering them by the millions, and stealing their land.
Millions? I think not but you're welcome to refute this with any evidence you can make available via a link or two.

Per Wikipedia (yeah, I know), some fudging of the 2006 Canadian Census numbers would produce about 1,212,905 individuals of Aboriginal ancestry in Canada in 2006. Take away the 389,785 Metis who weren't part of what would have been originally considered an aboriginal way back when and you're left just under 825,000 full blood aboriginals. So it's kind of hard to believe that millions were murdered in Canada or what was to become Canada. Just saying.

Toma

12-02-2012, 11:40 AM

Originally posted by OU812

Its closer to 3 - 4 million and that was all of North America,

Uhm, no. The estimates Vary from ~6 million to 100+ million. There is compelling evidence for both.

But that number is largely irrelevant. Percentage wise, and given the population of the World in 1400 to 1600, its a GROSS amount.

OU812

12-02-2012, 11:48 AM

What % of Canada are immigrants post treaty? Why the fuck should they pay for something they were not involved in through any genetic lineage?

speedog

12-02-2012, 11:57 AM

Originally posted by OU812
What % of Canada are immigrants post treaty? Why the fuck should they pay for something they were not involved in through any genetic lineage?
So you're one of those people. Kind of like the ones who don't want to pay school taxes because they don't have any school aged children.

You do realize that there have been 24 treaties signed since 1975, right? And that there are still ongoing treaty negotiations, right? And because you may have immigrated here even recently, that you could be involved, either directly or indirectly, and therefore somewhat responsible by becoming a Canadian.

Toma

12-02-2012, 11:58 AM

Originally posted by OU812
What % of Canada are immigrants post treaty? Why the fuck should they pay for something they were not involved in through any genetic lineage?

It's a contract you enter into when you come to Canada. You pay your taxes, the government then does what it is obligated to do.

Don't wanna pay taxes, or contribute, stay wherever you are from.

Same as laws, rules etc.

That's why we have a government. In the event of a free for all, no one would pay for anything they do not directly see or care about.

Roads, Education, Social Services, Unemployment, Elderly care, care for the disabled, public works and infrastructure etc etc.

Seth1968

12-02-2012, 12:17 PM

Population growth for non-aboriginals: 4.9%
Population growth for aboriginals: 20.1%

http://www4.hrsdc.gc.ca/[email protected]?iid=36

...so we're going to keep shelling out more and more money for people to sit on their ass and destroy the houses that were given to them. With that kind of population growth, when is, "enough is enough"?

As far as the ring road goes, maybe they should be reminded that the people who need it, are the people that provide them food and shelter.

speedog

12-02-2012, 12:32 PM

Originally posted by Seth1968
Population growth for non-aboriginals: 4.9%
Population growth for aboriginals: 20.1%

http://www4.hrsdc.gc.ca/[email protected]?iid=36

...so we're going to keep shelling out more and more money for people to sit on their ass and destroy the houses that were given to them. With that kind of population growth, when is, "enough is enough"?

As far as the ring road goes, maybe they should be reminded that the people who need it, are the people that provide them food and shelter.
Numbers, schmumbers. I am quite sure one could dig deeper into Stats Can numbers and find what appears to be explosive population growth for other segments of the Canadian populace based upon regions or ethnicity and then pervert those numbers along with other supposed percs to show that a certain populace is getting more than their fair share of something. Kind of like the suburban versus inner-city versus downtown/beltline arguments we see here on Beyond - one can manipulate collected data into anything they wish to have to support their cause.

Maybe, just maybe, that 20.1% for the aboriginal growth is due to a lack of birth control devices on the reserves because of pro-life Caucasians not wanting to deliver such products or that the distribution chains being owned by non-Caucasians/non-aboriginals who don't believe there is enough of a profit margin to warrant sales of those products to stores on the reserves. Just saying.

Toma

12-02-2012, 12:39 PM

Originally posted by Seth1968

As far as the ring road goes, maybe they should be reminded that the people who need it, are the people that provide them food and shelter.

Are you really equating a ROAD, that is not an actual "NEED", with Food and Shelter?

Toma

12-02-2012, 12:40 PM

We give the First Nations about 2.4 cents per Federal tax dollar paid. This compares to:

•Canada Health Transfer (10 cents)
•Canada Revenue Agency (3 cents)
•Canada Social Transfer (4 cents)
•Children's benefits (5 cents)
•Crown corporations (4 cents)
•Defence (8 cents)
•Employment Insurance benefits (7 cents)
•Other major transfers to other levels of government (6 cents)
•Other operations (12 cents)
•Other transfer payments (14 cents)**
•Public debt charges (11 cents)
•Public Safety (3 cents)
•Support to elderly (13 cents)

The ways some of you cry about it, this amount represents the end of the world or something.

Seth1968

12-02-2012, 12:43 PM

Originally posted by speedog
Maybe, just maybe, that 20.1% for the aboriginal growth is due to a lack of birth control devices on the reserves because of pro-life Caucasians not wanting to deliver such products or that the distribution chains being owned by non-Caucasians/non-aboriginals who don't believe there is enough of a profit margin to warrant sales of those products to stores on the reserves. Just saying.

So now "the white man" is to blame for aboriginals shitting out kids at a far higher rate than the national average.

Maybe, just maybe they don't give a shit and realize that another neglected kid=more free money.

speedog

12-02-2012, 12:47 PM

Originally posted by Seth1968

So now "the white man" is to blame for aboriginals shitting out kids at a far higher rate than the national average.

Maybe, just maybe they don't give a shit and realize that another neglected kid=more free money.
Comprehending what you've read is apparently not your forté, eh.

Seth1968

12-02-2012, 12:52 PM

Originally posted by speedog

Comprehending what you've read is apparently not your forté, eh.

I didn't know if you were being literal, flip, or sarcastic. So I just picked one.

Toma

12-02-2012, 12:53 PM

The way I see it, since this pertains to Calgary, and Alberta.....

Our "Robust Economy" is the thing that is responsible for all the current strains on our roads, infrastructure, health, schools....

So instead of looking for minority groups to blame, I think we should just let this "Robust Economy" fix the problems it directly created.

Tik-Tok

12-02-2012, 12:57 PM

The only thing the minority is being blamed for, is greed. They've been offered some very sweet deals so far as I can tell.

I would gladly trade my current property in for something 5x its size, and a shitload of cash along with it.

speedog

12-02-2012, 12:59 PM

A wise band council should be able to see the potential benefits the band could realize through new commercial ventures located along side of the portion of the ring road that will cross their lands - commercial ventures that won't be tied down by near as much red tape as they would be in Calgary. They will, of course, have to balance that against the historical/cultural significance/value of the affected land to them as aboriginal peoples - no less so than the $280,000 us city of Calgary taxpayers are now spending to move that Eamon's Camp building (waste of money that is IMHO).

Toma

12-02-2012, 01:00 PM

Originally posted by Tik-Tok
The only thing the minority is being blamed for, is greed. They've been offered some very sweet deals so far as I can tell.

I would gladly trade my current property in for something 5x its size, and a shitload of cash along with it.

Ah, yeah, but your perception of it is not theirs.

I am not here to judge what is fair, or what is not. It's their land, their decision.

Would I trade my inner city property for 5x more out of City? Or would it take 100x more? 1000?

speedog

12-02-2012, 01:01 PM

Toma

12-02-2012, 01:02 PM

My original post has not been disputed by anyone, just hadsome "justifications" and "diversions", some heavily based on racist attitudes.

"The government planned to fail, by failing to plan". Reactionary government doesn't work. They had plenty of time to plan and build for the future. And lack of planning on their part, does not constitute an emergency or obligation on the First Nations part.

So, our own Government, mis management, and our "run away rat race" economy is the direct reason for this situation. Shifting obligation and blame are infantile games.

Seth1968

12-02-2012, 01:06 PM

Originally posted by Toma
We give the First Nations about 2.4 cents per Federal tax dollar paid. The ways some of you cry about it, this amount represents the end of the world or something.

Unless something is done, that 2.4 cents will increase significantly given the aboriginals high population growth.

So, when that number becomes 20, will you see my point then?

Toma

12-02-2012, 01:11 PM

Originally posted by Seth1968

Unless something is done, that 2.4 cents will increase significantly given the aboriginals high population growth.

So, when that number becomes 20, will you see my point then?
Ahhhh, the "what if" game.

What if in the future, our Government becomes self sufficient, and individual citizens pay no taxes?

Then I wont give a shit what they pay for anything.

cancer man

12-02-2012, 01:26 PM

If John Wayne was alive he would have an answer.

vengie

12-02-2012, 03:07 PM

Originally posted by Toma
My original post has not been disputed by anyone, just hadsome "justifications" and "diversions", some heavily based on racist attitudes.

"The government planned to fail, by failing to plan". Reactionary government doesn't work. They had plenty of time to plan and build for the future. And lack of planning on their part, does not constitute an emergency or obligation on the First Nations part.

So, our own Government, mis management, and our "run away rat race" economy is the direct reason for this situation. Shifting obligation and blame are infantile games.

That is because there is no dispute to it... IT WAS the reactionary government trying to contain the native populations to plots of land rather than INTEGRATING them into society.

The issue here Toma is these payments have been made for about 100 years. Remember the band chiefs had to sign the treaty in the first place... and most did so willingly as it benefited their tribe exponentially! they now had modern farming equipment, they were given cattle, they are paid huge sums of money annually etc etc. Then you get into modern day, and they are still being paid INSANE sums of money, they are given FREE houses (I have personally built some of these houses on Tsuu Tina), UNBELIEVABLE access to education, essentially they are given EVERYTHING they need to succeed in the modern world... But sadly they do not, because the attitude and hate towards the "white man". Its actually quite sad, their brains are so corrupted and rotted by their band elders and family members that they really have no chance! its a disgusting cycle! and unfortunately it will continue.

Also another stat is the people on some of the more dilapidated bands feel it is the "White mans" fault that they are living in shambles... Sadly this is not true either, their is MASS corruption within these tribes, and the Chief and band councillors end up pocketing huge sums of money. Is that our fault as well?
http://taxpayer.com/federal/new-jaw-dropping-reserve-pay-numbers

I can keep going and going here, but moral of the story here is for Tsuu Tina to keep posturing the way they are is nothing but pure GREED, they have been stifling the completion of proper infrastructure to support our growing city for over a decade... its time to say enough is enough...

And Toma, before you say "our economy caused our city to grow blah blah blame that and the government!", just remember this economy has supported your success... No oil money= no money for fancy cars that need to be tuned. ;)

revelations

12-02-2012, 03:13 PM

Originally posted by vengie
(I have personally built some of these houses on Tsuu Tina),

Did you build those log homes for them ?

vengie

12-02-2012, 03:21 PM

Originally posted by revelations

Did you build those log homes for them ?

Yes, I shouldn't say built, but the company I worked for supplied all the drywall, insulation, and if I remember correctly some steel studding for basement walls, for every house there.

revelations

12-02-2012, 04:41 PM

I was with Enmax surveying new utility routes for that new sub division (of log homes). The whole affair was so jumbled and chaotic that none of the crews other wanted to go onsite..... so I was left with the task as the newest member.

I was told to report to the site on 9am Monday morning (an ATCO trailer).

I walked in at 905am and found no one on site. I needed both permission to work and legal plans of existing utilities and RoW- I eventually found them - all over the floor, they had been walked on and barely legible. No final grades were available.

In the end, because of the non-communication from the band, we just stuck our transformers , poles and pull boxes where the F we wanted to (avoiding ditches and future driveways).

(PS. I grew up on the West coast, Nanaimo - with 5 reserves in and around the city).

Cos

12-02-2012, 04:55 PM

revelations

12-02-2012, 05:14 PM

Not sure about the boundaries, but we (Enmax) were there in 2008. :dunno:

AREA: http://goo.gl/maps/BExFj

Cos

12-02-2012, 05:18 PM

OU812

12-02-2012, 06:10 PM

Originally posted by speedog

So you're one of those people. Kind of like the ones who don't want to pay school taxes because they don't have any school aged children.

nope.....education benefits society............paying billions into these reserves doesnt seem to do fuck all sans "give us moar!!"

OU812

12-02-2012, 06:13 PM

...

speedog

12-02-2012, 06:17 PM

Originally posted by OU812
nope.....education benefits society............paying billions into these reserves doesnt seem to do fuck all sans "give us moar!!";
Sigh.

Another one who has difficulty comprehending what they've read.

OU812

12-02-2012, 09:59 PM

Educate me then wise one

psycoticclown

12-02-2012, 10:15 PM

Originally posted by vengie

That is because there is no dispute to it... IT WAS the reactionary government trying to contain the native populations to plots of land rather than INTEGRATING them into society.

The issue here Toma is these payments have been made for about 100 years. Remember the band chiefs had to sign the treaty in the first place... and most did so willingly as it benefited their tribe exponentially! they now had modern farming equipment, they were given cattle, they are paid huge sums of money annually etc etc. Then you get into modern day, and they are still being paid INSANE sums of money, they are given FREE houses (I have personally built some of these houses on Tsuu Tina), UNBELIEVABLE access to education, essentially they are given EVERYTHING they need to succeed in the modern world... But sadly they do not, because the attitude and hate towards the "white man". Its actually quite sad, their brains are so corrupted and rotted by their band elders and family members that they really have no chance! its a disgusting cycle! and unfortunately it will continue.

Also another stat is the people on some of the more dilapidated bands feel it is the "White mans" fault that they are living in shambles... Sadly this is not true either, their is MASS corruption within these tribes, and the Chief and band councillors end up pocketing huge sums of money. Is that our fault as well?
http://taxpayer.com/federal/new-jaw-dropping-reserve-pay-numbers

I can keep going and going here, but moral of the story here is for Tsuu Tina to keep posturing the way they are is nothing but pure GREED, they have been stifling the completion of proper infrastructure to support our growing city for over a decade... its time to say enough is enough...

And Toma, before you say "our economy caused our city to grow blah blah blame that and the government!", just remember this economy has supported your success... No oil money= no money for fancy cars that need to be tuned. ;)

Agreed. There is so much corruption, I think there were 20 band councillers that were paid more then the Prime Minister, 80+ that were paid more then their respective Provincial Premiers. That is a ton of money, don't tell me they deserve to get paid that much. Furthermore, now that there's push towards making their salaries public, the tribes are saying it's racist that we're making them post their salaries online so they can be held accountable. Throwing more and more money is not going to solve the problem, they have to be willing to work at bettering their lives themselves and that means getting rid of the corruption that is rampant on the reserves.

Toma

12-02-2012, 11:21 PM

Originally posted by psycoticclown

Agreed. There is so much corruption, I think there were 20 band councillers that were paid more then the Prime Minister, 80+ that were paid more then their respective Provincial Premiers. That is a ton of money, don't tell me they deserve to get paid that much. Furthermore, now that there's push towards making their salaries public, the tribes are saying it's racist that we're making them post their salaries online so they can be held accountable. Throwing more and more money is not going to solve the problem, they have to be willing to work at bettering their lives themselves and that means getting rid of the corruption that is rampant on the reserves.

CEO's make too much. Politicians make too much, and their pensions are ludicrous.

The reserves are not your business, nor mine. We are under treaty obligation to provide certain things and money, but that does not ENTITLE us to run their lives.

It's upto them to weed out their own corruption, and it's upto us to weed out our own.

I think everyone just needs to mind their own business a little more.

vengie

12-02-2012, 11:40 PM

Originally posted by Toma

CEO's make too much. Politicians make too much, and their pensions are ludicrous.

The reserves are not your business, nor mine. We are under treaty obligation to provide certain things and money, but that does not ENTITLE us to run their lives.

It's upto them to weed out their own corruption, and it's upto us to weed out our own.

I think everyone just needs to mind their own business a little more.

Nor do the treaties entitle them to demand MORE from us... It becomes our business to deal with when my tax dollars are going towards these payments.

Toma, I once again challenge you to spend some ACTUAL time on a reserve and see exactly what the mentality on the reserve is... Then please report back with your findings.

vengie

12-02-2012, 11:45 PM

Also Toma, your statement about CEO's making more is absurd at best... Yes CEO's do make more than some band members, but remember, these CEO's pay taxes, and run companies that benefit us as consumers.
Band Members make this money TAX FREE and have zero input into society, just band issues.

Toma

12-03-2012, 12:24 AM

Originally posted by vengie

Nor do the treaties entitle them to demand MORE from us... It becomes our business to deal with when my tax dollars are going towards these payments.

Toma, I once again challenge you to spend some ACTUAL time on a reserve and see exactly what the mentality on the reserve is... Then please report back with your findings.

Been there, done that, and probably have more experience dealing with first nations peoples than anyone here.

Still does not ENTITLE you to try and tell them how to live, how to manage etc.

Don't be a selfish prick. The 2.5 cents on the tax dollar is better spent there then on some stupid war, or some stupid fighter jets etc.

And good god, did you just place consumerism, and having adequate supplies of Nintendo Wii's above the level of human survival, decency and dignity?

And OF COURSE it's tax free. Good lord, why wouldn't it be?

vengie

12-03-2012, 12:43 AM

Originally posted by Toma

Been there, done that, and probably have more experience dealing with first nations peoples than anyone here.

Still does not ENTITLE you to try and tell them how to live, how to manage etc.

Don't be a selfish prick. The 2.5 cents on the tax dollar is better spent there then on some stupid war, or some stupid fighter jets etc.

And good god, did you just place consumerism, and having adequate supplies of Nintendo Wii's above the level of human survival, decency and dignity?

And OF COURSE it's tax free. Good lord, why wouldn't it be?

Where did I say consumerism is worth more than human lives? You're trying to twist words now, go back re-read what you said about ceo's vs what I said, how in any way shape or form does a chief and band council members deserve to be paid that much? Meanwhile the rest of their tribes live in shambles? Is that our problem? Are you saying we need to give them MORE money to further line the councils pockets? I simply made a rebuttal to your insane comparison.

Please tell me how hard it is for them then Toma? You think their lives are at risk with their free housing, gov money, tax breaks out the wazoo, insane access to post secondary scholarships etc...?

Toma, they have more opportunity to succeed than any other canadian, like I mentioned before it is unfortunate GREED and HATRED and skewed propaganda is running reserves. They are the ones keeping THEMSELVES in a downward spiral.

Not to say all reserves are this way, but a good majority are.

Toma

12-03-2012, 12:56 AM

Originally posted by vengie

Where did I say consumerism is worth more than human lives? You're trying to twist words now, go back re-read what you said about ceo's vs what I said, how in any way shape or form does a chief and band council members deserve to be paid that much? Meanwhile the rest of their tribes live in shambles? Is that our problem? Are you saying we need to give them MORE money to further line the councils pockets? I simply made a rebuttal to your insane comparison.

Please tell me how hard it is for them then Toma? You think their lives are at risk with their free housing, gov money, tax breaks out the wazoo, insane access to post secondary scholarships etc...?

Toma, they have more opportunity to succeed than any other canadian, like I mentioned before it is unfortunate GREED and HATRED and skewed propaganda is running reserves. They are the ones keeping THEMSELVES in a downward spiral.

Not to say all reserves are this way, but a good majority are.

You are honestly being a judgmental dimwit. What other people should do, could do, are doing etc.

Mind your business.

You have derailed this thread. It's their land, you have no claim over it. End of story. It's theirs to manage as they please, just like a welfare recipients property is his castle.

Helping someone does not obligate them to you. Childish honestly to think otherwise.

Unknown303

12-03-2012, 01:15 AM

Isaiah

12-03-2012, 09:04 AM

Views, practices and actions reflecting the belief that humanity is divided into distinct biological groups called races and that members of a certain race share certain attributes which make that group as a whole less desirable, more desirable, inferior, or superior: Racism

A thought that may be adopted about specific types of individuals or certain ways of doing things, but that belief may or may not accurately reflect reality: Stereotype

The prejudicial or distinguishing treatment of an individual based on their actual or perceived membership in a certain group or category, such as their race, gender, sexual orientation, ethnicity, national origin, or religion: Discrimination

vengie

12-03-2012, 06:52 PM

Originally posted by Toma

You are honestly being a judgmental dimwit. What other people should do, could do, are doing etc.

Mind your business.

You have derailed this thread. It's their land, you have no claim over it. End of story. It's theirs to manage as they please, just like a welfare recipients property is his castle.

Helping someone does not obligate them to you. Childish honestly to think otherwise.

How am I being judgemental about stating fact? I know you have your super "out of this world" theories, and I know you don't take losing a debate very easily, but honestly you have not countered my arguments with anything valid, just overblown comparisons, and childish insults.

Sure it is their land, but it's my tax dollars that are funding their lives, money which they choose to waste. I would much rather have my tax dollars go to something meaningful like the childrens hospital, rather than a bunch of natives buying $80k trucks, trashing them while wasted, destroying their free beautiful homes, rinse and repeat.

I have said it before and will say it again, Tsuu Tina is being extremely un-compromising, we have played nice for over 10 years and they have halted the development of a MAJOR city. Time to play hard ball, if they are un-willing to compromise then so be it, block off the casino.

Also, as mentioned by another member previously in this thread, if Tsuu Tina had any economical foresight they would be WELCOMING this road, as there will be plenty of un-restricted development and business opportunities to take shape along the roadway.

Edit: This may or may not make sense, long day at school and am not in the mood to proof read.

reijo

12-03-2012, 08:08 PM

Just looking at the map posted .... maybe it is time for the city to just take the land (expropriation) needed and cross the Glenmore Reservoir via the straightest route (over or under) - to 37St SW on the north side - and forget the natives: They simply want too much, were given a deal that was too generous imho and turned it down and tolls on top of that? The tolls will remain and increase for good ... not to mention possibility of road blocks .... unlike the Coquihalla (notice the toll booths are gone?).

In fact, make it a toll highway ... until it is paid for ... just like the Coquihalla ... but avoid the native lands. Why be a slave to them? 50+ years of "negotiations" is too much....do it already!

R

psycoticclown

12-03-2012, 08:37 PM

Originally posted by Toma

Been there, done that, and probably have more experience dealing with first nations peoples than anyone here.

Still does not ENTITLE you to try and tell them how to live, how to manage etc.

Don't be a selfish prick. The 2.5 cents on the tax dollar is better spent there then on some stupid war, or some stupid fighter jets etc.

And good god, did you just place consumerism, and having adequate supplies of Nintendo Wii's above the level of human survival, decency and dignity?

And OF COURSE it's tax free. Good lord, why wouldn't it be?

Our tax dollars are going to them so yes, we do have a right to see where our money is going. How is it alright that most people on the reserves are living in complete poverty, schools don't have enough money, yet 50 band councillors are paid more then a Prime Minister and over 160 are paid more then their Premier. If you actually wanted to help them out, you should voice your concerns and help them stop the corruption.

Your anology is absolutely flawed, it's like saying oh if you donate do a charity, you have no right to have any say to what that charity does with your money, it's ok for all your donation money to go into their CEO's wallet and we are supposed to be alright with that?! :nut:

The thing is, this money is being paid by all taxpayers, whether we want to or not, so we should have at least some accountability to ensure money is actually going to where it is needed and not to somebody to live in a massive house with nice cars while the rest of the people they are supposed to lead are starving.

msommers

12-03-2012, 08:40 PM

Originally posted by vengie

How am I being judgemental about stating fact? I know you have your super "out of this world" theories, and I know you don't take losing a debate very easily, but honestly you have not countered my arguments with anything valid, just overblown comparisons, and childish insults.

Sure it is their land, but it's my tax dollars that are funding their lives, money which they choose to waste. I would much rather have my tax dollars go to something meaningful like the childrens hospital, rather than a bunch of natives buying $80k trucks, trashing them while wasted, destroying their free beautiful homes, rinse and repeat.

I have said it before and will say it again, Tsuu Tina is being extremely un-compromising, we have played nice for over 10 years and they have halted the development of a MAJOR city. Time to play hard ball, if they are un-willing to compromise then so be it, block off the casino.

Also, as mentioned by another member previously in this thread, if Tsuu Tina had any economical foresight they would be WELCOMING this road, as there will be plenty of un-restricted development and business opportunities to take shape along the roadway.

Edit: This may or may not make sense, long day at school and am not in the mood to proof read.

Makes perfect sense man, calling it exactly how it is. We need a spine and just stand up for what is only logical at this point regarding the ring road.

Toma

12-03-2012, 11:36 PM

A:

It's not charity, its treaty.... ie, contract. Your arguments are futile, cause you continue to ignore this simple fact.

B:
For shits and giggles though, if it was Charity, or social assistance or....
They are their own guardians.

I work with people with disabilities, and they are usually on AISH or some form of assistance. Even though they "get this money for free". does not give ANYONE the right to hijack their freedoms and dignity.

Helping someone does not ENTITLE you to run their lives, you can assist them, but their decisions, ultimately, are theirs.

You guys act like that annoying leg humper that contributes nothing to a car build, except maybe pass a wrench, but then thinks they have some sort of say in the car or part ownership, or decision making. Your 2.5 cents out of your Federal tax dollar keeps you out of jail (for tax evasion), it does not entitle you to pass judgments on peoples lives, from cultures you could not possibly understand.

Smartiepants

12-04-2012, 09:49 AM

Hate to say I agree with Toma on a fair number of things, however on the flip side, we are perfectly entitled to build a road within our own land, with no casino or access to the reserve. If that's a card we as a city wish to play it's within our rights.

Personally I think that we've offered a more than fair deal, however I don't have the complete background on the cultural value of the land. If they choose not to take the deal, we do have the right to build without access for them.

vengie

12-04-2012, 06:17 PM

Originally posted by Toma
A:

It's not charity, its treaty.... ie, contract. Your arguments are futile, cause you continue to ignore this simple fact.

B:
For shits and giggles though, if it was Charity, or social assistance or....
They are their own guardians.

I work with people with disabilities, and they are usually on AISH or some form of assistance. Even though they "get this money for free". does not give ANYONE the right to hijack their freedoms and dignity.

Helping someone does not ENTITLE you to run their lives, you can assist them, but their decisions, ultimately, are theirs.

You guys act like that annoying leg humper that contributes nothing to a car build, except maybe pass a wrench, but then thinks they have some sort of say in the car or part ownership, or decision making. Your 2.5 cents out of your Federal tax dollar keeps you out of jail (for tax evasion), it does not entitle you to pass judgments on peoples lives, from cultures you could not possibly understand.

The more this drags on, the more I realize you have a complete lack of reading comprehension. I will lay it out for you in bullet form for your ease of comprehension...

- Never once did I say it was a charity, my argument was simply to play hardball if they do not want to compromise and block off access to their casino. (LEGAL)

- Yes, they are their own guardians, but do you feel MORE of your tax dollars should go to support a CORRUPT band council, who makes more than you or myself while their citizens starve?? ITS A FFFAAAACCCCTTTTTTTTTT most bound councils are terribly corrupt.

- Are you comparing natives to disabled people? Where is your support for the rampant use of alcohol and drugs, and lack of birth control use on reserves? do you feel it is right that a native girl who is 21 pops out 7 children and is perma-wasted with a baby daddy who doesn't even care deserves an insane amount of social assistance which then is further abused for more drugs/ alcohol?
Again not saying all reserves are like this, but it is more common than you think.

- Being neighbours to a MAJOR city does not ENTITLE you to be greedy as shit when we have done nothing but compromise for them and completely cripple the flow of traffic for half the city/ advancement of infrastructure for continued growth. (Grey eagle Casino, 37th st nice new roadway into reserve) etc.

- Toma you are one to speak about said annoying leg humper... You constantly complain about big oil companies making too much, and how our economy is run, and how this city is the way it is because of the money that is here etc... Would that not make you a MASSIVE hypocrite? like I have said to you several times before, what allows YOUR CUSTOMERS to buy their fancy ass expensive toys that need tuning? fact is this economy has ENABLED you to have the toys you do, and the life you have. I'm shocked you of all people has such a communist attitude.

- Cultures I don't understand? remember where I said I am Metis? remember my mention of travelling to several reserves around Alberta and liaising with the people? I also have a few SUCCESSFUL friends who are native and they actually complain about reserves as much as I do. What does it tell you when their own people rag on their way of living?

Answer me this Toma, would you like to have your kids grow up on a reserve with the current state many are in? (corruption, propaganda, rampant drug/ alcohol use, high suicide rates, high teen pregnancy rates, etc...)

TheCheff

12-04-2012, 09:54 PM

Good on you Vengie for trying to have a debate with Toma. Unfortunately for you it is impossible to discuss topics intelligently with this socialist fuckwad, who twists your posts into something they are not.

The offer being tendered to the Tsuu-tina Nation is 5x more then it should be and is beyond fair. The fact that ~2000 Tsuu-tina natives can be so greedy to deny the last proposed offer is ludicrous, holding the SW transportation corridor hostage is even more outrageous.

The traffic in the SW portion of Calgary is a nightmare and their stall negotiation tactics amount to legal extortion(As the traffic will become worse by the year). It is within the City of Calgary's right to shut off access to the casino and I believe we should do so, maybe then they will get the fucking picture.

As for the toll road idea, the NW, NE and SE ring roads were all built without toll roads why should we in the SW have to pay a toll everyday???

Toma, you can try to blame the City Planners/Engineers for shortsighted transportation planning but not many people would have predicted the exponential/explosive growth Calgary has experienced. Ever since the realization of this issue the City of Calgary has been trying to negotiate with Tsuu-Tina which has been a long and painful process. Even if they had the foresight to see this population growth, how do you engineer an effective transportation route around the Glenmore Reservoir without passing into the Tsuu-Tina land or going through the environmentally sensitive Weaslehead area??? A TUNNEL?? sure but did we have the money for that 20-30 years ago, or even 15???

I don't expect a retard like you to take any of this into account though, just keep spouting off shit like we're ruining their lives, telling them how to live etc... just because we want to build a fucking ring-road that alleviates transportation issues for a quarter of the city and will undoubtedly bring them more commercial/economic benefits as well as possible guaranteed labor/work contracts. YOU ARE A FUCKING JOKE.

Also you stated the Native population of Canada was ~100 000 000??? are you fucking high???

I'm also not sure why you are against posting the band councils annual salaries????? Because we should "mind our own business"??? You right lets just all close our eyes and pretend their isn't a substantial amount of corruption surrounding certain band councils because its none of our business!!! We just pay for it that's all!

kdwebber

12-05-2012, 01:24 AM

Originally posted by TheCheff
Good on you Vengie for trying to have a debate with Toma. Unfortunately for you it is impossible to discuss topics intelligently with this socialist fuckwad, who twists your posts into something they are not.

The offer being tendered to the Tsuu-tina Nation is 5x more then it should be and is beyond fair. The fact that ~2000 Tsuu-tina natives can be so greedy to deny the last proposed offer is ludicrous, holding the SW transportation corridor hostage is even more outrageous.

The traffic in the SW portion of Calgary is a nightmare and their stall negotiation tactics amount to legal extortion(As the traffic will become worse by the year). It is within the City of Calgary's right to shut off access to the casino and I believe we should do so, maybe then they will get the fucking picture.

As for the toll road idea, the NW, NE and SE ring roads were all built without toll roads why should we in the SW have to pay a toll everyday???

Toma, you can try to blame the City Planners/Engineers for shortsighted transportation planning but not many people would have predicted the exponential/explosive growth Calgary has experienced. Ever since the realization of this issue the City of Calgary has been trying to negotiate with Tsuu-Tina which has been a long and painful process. Even if they had the foresight to see this population growth, how do you engineer an effective transportation route around the Glenmore Reservoir without passing into the Tsuu-Tina land or going through the environmentally sensitive Weaslehead area??? A TUNNEL?? sure but did we have the money for that 20-30 years ago, or even 15???

I don't expect a retard like you to take any of this into account though, just keep spouting off shit like we're ruining their lives, telling them how to live etc... just because we want to build a fucking ring-road that alleviates transportation issues for a quarter of the city and will undoubtedly bring them more commercial/economic benefits as well as possible guaranteed labor/work contracts. YOU ARE A FUCKING JOKE.

Also you stated the Native population of Canada was ~100 000 000??? are you fucking high???

I'm also not sure why you are against posting the band councils annual salaries????? Because we should "mind our own business"??? You right lets just all close our eyes and pretend their isn't a substantial amount of corruption surrounding certain band councils because its none of our business!!! We just pay for it that's all!

I was going to argue with the moron above you however your post was far more ignorant that the previous post. Socialism is great. Universal health care and education, among other socialist ideals, for every member of society is what makes Canada and other leftwing countries great. Look at the quality of life index for 2012 and see how many socialist minded countries are on that list. You think its a coincidence that they rank among the top 10 in this list year after year?

Your ignorance towards the facts in this thread boggles my mind. The Tsuu-Tina nation owes nothing to the city of Calgary with regards to traffic infrastructure or any other civic issue. The government of Canada signed treaties with them hundreds of years ago, we cannot force them into signing or building anything which is not in their best interest. You seem to think that we can bully them into doing what we want.

Toma is not fucking high, unlike you he has achieved a reading comprehension level above that of a sixth grader. The estimate of 6 to 100 million aboriginals is the number as it relates to the genocide of the aboriginal people during colonization.

The fact that you have no intelligent rebuttal to any of Tomas arguments speaks volumes. The best you can do is slander his character because rational thought would just be too much.