Have a Sinking Feeling my xmas is going to suck

[Sugarphreak]

...

[Cos]

.

[Kloubek]

Uh oh.

[kvg]

:eek:

[Sugarphreak]

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[88CRX]

Damn man, that sucks! Not a cheap fix.

[Cos]

.

[Sugarphreak]

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[AE92_TreunoSC]

Fuck sakes that sucks. At least it didnt go into your foundation (knock on every piece of wood in the house)

Pylons around that ice would be a good idea. Something to raise attention. Sometimes I'm watching traffic, talking on the phone while walking my dog and I can't predict a massive patch of ice like that haha. I don't sue though, I just fall lol.

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by Cos


I doubt they will have you without water for a while. You may be put on a temp water line or a water pump but you will have water by tuesday at the latest.

I've seen a few repairs in my neighborhood now (lots of 50 year old trees), they have a trailer full of potable water they park outside your house until the repair is done. I doubt it'll take long, even if it's at your cost.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[revelations]

Damn, I guess no insurance policy would cover this.

[Sugarphreak]

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[Cos]

.

[Sugarphreak]

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[max_boost]

Hey baller, any problem money can solve is no problem at all. Don't sweat it. :bigpimp:

[Sugarphreak]

...

[Sugarphreak]

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[revelations]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak


Some good news, I think I am covered: I just found this in my policy:

We Insure:
Sudden and accidental loss or damage caused directly by:
a)Backing up, discharge or overflow of water from:
iv) Breakage of the watermain.



I am no baller, I am a typical beyond fake, haha

Dont mean to rain on the parade but doesnt that only mean DAMAGE caused by the break - not the break itself?

Eg if the break was next to the foundation and it leaked into your basement.

Either way, keep us posted.

[Ven]

If you want access to fresh water and you're on good terms with your neighbor you can run a hose from their outside tap to your outside tap. As long as your service valve if off you'll have water like normal, other than reduced pressure. If the temps are low you'll need to keep the furthest tap from the hook up running 24/7 at a stream about the thickness of a pencil to prevent freezing. Beats drinking bathtub water.

[ExtraSlow]

If you have to run water from the neighbours house, Lee Valled sells a heated hose that's rated for drinking water.

Good luck bro.

[Sugarphreak]

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[Sugarphreak]

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[codetrap]

Dude.. call your insurance company... get the skinny directly from them.

[AndyL]

On the bright side? At least its before the meter so the water bill won't be astronomical?

Good luck with insurance, kinda curious how this resolves, as this would be a frikken nightmare...

[spikerS]

THIS is one of the few things that scare me about home ownership. A huge and unexpected repair bill, and insurance companies are trying to limit their liability to water damage.

Dude, I seriously hope this works out for you, and yeah, good thing it is before the meter. I wonder how saturated that ground is to cause a sink hole like that in freezing temps...

[Masked Bandit]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak


Some good news, I think I am covered: I just found this in my policy:

We Insure:
Sudden and accidental loss or damage caused directly by:
a)Backing up, discharge or overflow of water from:
iv) Breakage of the watermain.



I suspect you've found out already but a comprehensive homeowner's policy would cover resulting damage from the water, not the break itself. You will be responsible for the cost to repair this, just the same as if you had a busted pipe of some kind in your house. The repair of the leak itself is on your dime, insurance picks up all the resulting damage.

Sorry boss.

[2.2vtec]

Similar thing happened to me a few years back. Water line broke and it caused my sewer to back up in the house.

The break was on my side and underneath the driveway which meant i had to rip apart the concrete. Luckly the builder stepped in and paid for the repairs. I didn't ask questions just appreicated i didn't have to pay

[GTS4tw]

I have had to fix a few of these lately and without fail they have been caused by improper ground preparation. If it was caused by a rock pushing through the line then I suggest you dig the whole line up, bed it properly and fill properly. It might seem like a lot of work, but a lot of those lines were just thrown in the ground and migrate right onto rocks, a little bit extra now and it really wont add a huge amount to the bill compared to a break repair. If you do a quick fix and it is bedded in bad ground then the disturbance caused by repairing it could cause another leak within the next few years... I have seen this over and over and over.

That is assuming that was the problem.

The problem with running from a neighbors outside tap is that most people have frost free valves and cannot run water backwards through them, well that and the freezing temperatures.

Only other thing I can say is find a good contractor, and call before you dig! Might as well get the utilities marked out in advance of someone coming out, it will help speed things up.

[Sugarphreak]

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[Strider]

Originally posted by max_boost
Hey baller, any problem money can solve is no problem at all. Don't sweat it. :bigpimp:

Not a fan of sigs... but this quote is too good to pass up.

[Masked Bandit]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
Insurance company wasn't much help, their client services said it was likely not covered if it occurred outside and didn’t damage our house, however they are sending an adjuster within the next 24 to 48 hours to give us a definitive answer on it. They also don’t have any contractors they could recommend.

So, pretty much completely unsupported by the insurance company and the city in this matter :rolleyes:

Getting in contact with a reputable contractor this morning sometime, just going to assume I have to foot the bill for this myself.




yeah it is looking this way

Do insurance companies typically offer a rider for this?

Nope. Coverage for something like this isn't available in any manner.

Essentially a watermain is just another plumbing line. The same coverage would apply if you had a leak in the plumbing in the house. The cost to repair the leak is 100% on you and insurance covers all the resulting damage.

Think of your water heater. If it blows a leak, the insurance company isn't going to replace the water heater but will take care of all of the resulting water damage. Replacing / repairing the water heater would be more a warranty thing.

[spikerS]

what kind of cost is something like this?

[Sugarphreak]

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[CanmoreOrLess]

Sugarphreak didn't you recently move into the house from your fab-view pad near the Saddledome? I wonder how long the "leak" has been going on?

[Sugarphreak]

..

[quick_scar]

Let me know who you end up going with to do the repair, and how it all turns out.

[BerserkerCatSplat]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak

Sounds like it is going to be somewhere in the 5K to 10K range, maybe more if I want to have water to my house anytime soon.



Yeouch. :eek:

[sputnik]

Is it a relatively new house?

Even if it was after the 1 year warranty, I would still go after the builder. There is no reason why this should happen under normal conditions.

There must have been something they did wrong.

[Sugarphreak]

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[InRich]

so how much does something like this cost to fix?

[spikerS]

Originally posted by spikers
what kind of cost is something like this?



Originally posted by Sugarphreak


Sounds like it is going to be somewhere in the 5K to 10K range, maybe more if I want to have water to my house anytime soon.

...merry x-mas to me, sigh

[GTS4tw]

Seems insanely high to me... I would have expected $2500-5K depending on the extent of landscaping above it. It is a very simple fix if its in the middle of the yard though, and shouldnt require more than a couple hundred in parts to fix. I have done a number of them myself and local companies (Kelowna B.C) charge around $1500-2K but the water lines are buried much deeper in Calgary as far as I know. What is making the cost so high?

I am still sticking by my previous post that is is likely bedded in bad ground and will continue to give you problems, for 10K I would be expecting a new line from the road to the house, full landscaping repairs, and a jar of KY jelly.

[revelations]

Would there be any benefit for the OP to start the digging process now and save $$ ?


(get locates first)

[UndrgroundRider]

:rofl:

There is no way that is going to cost $10K to fix. $1K-$2K tops.

[Sugarphreak]

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[ercchry]

Originally posted by GTS4tw
Seems insanely high to me... I would have expected $2500-5K depending on the extent of landscaping above it. It is a very simple fix if its in the middle of the yard though, and shouldnt require more than a couple hundred in parts to fix. I have done a number of them myself and local companies (Kelowna B.C) charge around $1500-2K but the water lines are buried much deeper in Calgary as far as I know. What is making the cost so high?

I am still sticking by my previous post that is is likely bedded in bad ground and will continue to give you problems, for 10K I would be expecting a new line from the road to the house, full landscaping repairs, and a jar of KY jelly.

well the biggest difference would be that this is calgary... where trades only pick the jobs that they want to do. cause they can, got to keep everyone rolling in their lifted diesels somehow :rofl:

[lint]

quotes don't seem far off. I have to have a sewer line replaced from house to the city main and it's just under $5K for a trench solution. The quotes I got from Thurlo and NewLine (city reccomended vendors) were in the $8-$15K range.

[guessboi]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak


Over the phone quotes are coming in pretty consistantly at around $5500 to $7000.

Oh man this is gonna suck. :banghead:

[Tik-Tok]

Do the work yourself... bypass the meter :rofl:

[autosm]

Sucks to have to spend this money on something that should last a long time. Good thing your house has gone up in value.

The city drilled holes in the street in front of all of our houses last year and replaced the anodes on the water lines and water valve to our house. They did not say why but I suspect corrosion.

My place was built in 98.

[autosm]

double post

[GTS4tw]

Originally posted by lint
quotes don't seem far off. I have to have a sewer line replaced from house to the city main and it's just under $5K for a trench solution. The quotes I got from Thurlo and NewLine (city reccomended vendors) were in the $8-$15K range.

Way way more work to do a sewer hookup than a line break, not even comparable.

[GTS4tw]

Originally posted by ercchry


well the biggest difference would be that this is calgary... where trades only pick the jobs that they want to do. cause they can, got to keep everyone rolling in their lifted diesels somehow :rofl:

10k for 6-8 hours work is pretty awesome, sign me up.

[blitz]

I think with this sort of repair there's a "we know you need water quickly, so we're going to gouge you" factor thrown in.

[7thgenvic]

hydrovac truck.... maybe 1000 for the small area...


would you call a plumber or what?

[BMDUBS]

I second Hydrovac. I figure $1000-1200.00 to vac out a nice big hole to inspect and repair plus no locates required. Find out where the leak is coming from while they are vac'ing. I can lend you a curb key if you pm me. I can stop by and have a look with you after it is vac'ed out and tell you what you will need to repair...

[Sugarphreak]

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[D. Dub]

Originally posted by spikers
THIS is one of the few things that scare me about home ownership. A huge and unexpected repair bill, and insurance companies are trying to limit their liability to water damage.



Its not a problem if you live within your means ;)

[D. Dub]

Unfortunately having a single family means inevitable crises. Hope it works out.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[95teetee]

Originally posted by AE92_TreunoSC
I don't sue though, I just fall lol. oh, us silly Canadians:D

[ArjayAquino]

Originally posted by 95teetee
oh, us silly Canadians:D

sorry :(

[reijo]

Are you handy with plumbing?

FYI, you might also be able to get a standard city drawing on-line on what is down there - std. home service ... pretty sure I have one around somewhere.

Hire someone/firm to hydrovac or simply dig it out (so you be the General Contractor on it ... ) ... should be about 8' down (standard for City water systems) ... and then do the repair yourself - e.g. cracked (frozen?) pipe section to replace .... or it might still be the curb stop(city valve) because that is where the joints/connections are ... and the water will tend to migrate up along its own path ...

It's not rocket science and you can save yourself a bundle if you want.

R

[Sugarphreak]

...

[revelations]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak


Pretty much, all part of the joy of home ownership.

One thing I learned from living in a condo is that now we set aside a few bucks each month to offset the inevitable costs of home ownership (roof, furnace, water heater, etc.) ..... sometimes shit just happens. :dunno:

(condo fees cover repairs down the road)

[Grogador]

Oh haha a "sinking" feeling, now I get it! Shitty deal hope you can get it fixed in a jiffy. I'm surprised insurance doesn't cover stuff like this!

[Ven]

Hydrovac is no good for that kind of work. You need a backhoe on site for the line pull, and to install and remove the trench cage, and to tamp. And you'll need a tandem there to take away the spoil and return with the correct backfill.

[Masked Bandit]

Originally posted by revelations


One thing I learned from living in a condo is that now we set aside a few bucks each month to offset the inevitable costs of home ownership (roof, furnace, water heater, etc.) ..... sometimes shit just happens. :dunno:

(condo fees cover repairs down the road)

Until there's a cash call because there wasn't enough in the reserve fund to cover the new roof / siding / windows / mold / whatever. Don't kid yourself, things can go sideways in a condo too.

[benyl]

Originally posted by revelations


One thing I learned from living in a condo is that now we set aside a few bucks each month to offset the inevitable costs of home ownership (roof, furnace, water heater, etc.) ..... sometimes shit just happens. :dunno:

(condo fees cover repairs down the road)

You just haven't experienced a special assessment yet. One condo I own had $25 k in special assessments in 2 years. 2 million reserve fund. Repairs to the building envelope were 3-5 million.

[ipeefreely]

Man that sucks OP. :banghead: I hope everything works out! :thumbsup:

Originally posted by Masked Bandit
Nope. Coverage for something like this isn't available in any manner.
My utility company (EPCOR) has been pimping an insurance company that will cover these problems. HomeServe. I'm not sure if they offer coverage in Calgary though... :dunno: (and I know it doesn't help the OP right now...)

Here's a few links.
FAQs About Our Partnership with HomeServe (http://www.epcor.com/safety/property-owner-responsibilities/Pages/homeserve-faqs.aspx?cid=1#title0)

homeserve-partners-with-epcor (http://www.newswire.ca/en/story/982499/homeserve-partners-with-epcor-to-provide-albertans-with-peace-of-mind-from-home-emergencies)

Epcor teams with Homeserve to offer water line insurance, but is it needed? (http://www.edmontonjournal.com/business/Simons+Epcor+teams+with+Homeserve+offer+water+line+insurance+needed/7562634/story.html)

Sounds like they don't have the best reputation... :rolleyes: :thumbsdow

Masked Bandit seeing has you're the Insurance Guru :bigpimp: what you opinion on these guys? I almost get the feeling you still might be out of pocket somehow even after getting insurance from these guys... :whipped:
I was going to ask my insurance company if they offered similar coverage (my water main goes under my driveway) but from what you said, sounds like most don't. :(

[Sugarphreak]

...

[Masked Bandit]

Originally posted by ipeefreely
Man that sucks OP. :banghead: I hope everything works out! :thumbsup:

My utility company (EPCOR) has been pimping an insurance company that will cover these problems. HomeServe. I'm not sure if they offer coverage in Calgary though... :dunno: (and I know it doesn't help the OP right now...)

Here's a few links.
FAQs About Our Partnership with HomeServe (http://www.epcor.com/safety/property-owner-responsibilities/Pages/homeserve-faqs.aspx?cid=1#title0)

homeserve-partners-with-epcor (http://www.newswire.ca/en/story/982499/homeserve-partners-with-epcor-to-provide-albertans-with-peace-of-mind-from-home-emergencies)

Epcor teams with Homeserve to offer water line insurance, but is it needed? (http://www.edmontonjournal.com/business/Simons+Epcor+teams+with+Homeserve+offer+water+line+insurance+needed/7562634/story.html)

Sounds like they don't have the best reputation... :rolleyes: :thumbsdow

Masked Bandit seeing has you're the Insurance Guru :bigpimp: what you opinion on these guys? I almost get the feeling you still might be out of pocket somehow even after getting insurance from these guys... :whipped:
I was going to ask my insurance company if they offered similar coverage (my water main goes under my driveway) but from what you said, sounds like most don't. :(

If you go through the fine print it's not actually an insurance policy, it's a service contract. It's much more like an extended warranty you buy on a used car (and we all know how well that usually works out). For better marketing though they refer to it as "insurance". The fact that they already have to call it something different should be a red flag.

I've seen this type of product on many different things. Pre-paid legal services is one, windshield repair / replacement is another but if you really analyze the programs, they're all the same. For a certain fee they will agree to "protect you in the event of damage / breakdown". I think Atco has a program similar to this here in Calgary that is for your furnace & other HVAC items but don't quote me on that. The problem is in all of the fine print. If you research the company (the last link provided) these guys have been in trouble in both the UK and the USA for shady business practices.

I personally wouldn't go anywhere near this product as a consumer and I sure as shit wouldn't partner with them and associate my company with them. I'm surprised Epcor agreed to. Like Sugarphreak said, 1500 clients and one payout? As an investor I would sure like those numbers. As a customer, not so much.

I've been in the business now for 13 year and I currently have about 1700 clients and over all of those years do you know how many clients I've had call me to say that their waterline let go?

Exactly 0, zip, zilch, nada.

Now to put another light on this situation, I've never had a client's house burn to the ground either so maybe we should all cancel our house insurance too. The difference is that if my house burns down with all my stuff in it I'm probably out close to $1,000,000. If my waterline ruptures I'm out $5,000 - $10,000 by the looks of things. This is why I wouldn't by the Homeserve product.

[ipeefreely]

Thanks for the reply Masked Bandit! :)

Do you know why there is no appetite for insurance companies to have a product to cover this?

Seems like pretty easy money (odds of it happening) and with maybe a 3$ or lower fee per month people would pay just incase... :dunno: I think I would...


Originally posted by Sugarphreak
If the odds are 1 in 1500, then the city could offer the same insurance for 1$ a month and still make a pretty decent profit.
I don't see why there couldn't be a 1 or 2 dollar rider on everyone's bill (like with your gas line) then you wouldn't have to worry and you'd know it was done right instead of having to rely on some contractor ... :dunno: :nut:

[Cos]

.

[mo_money2supe]

Originally posted by Ven
Hydrovac is no good for that kind of work. You need a backhoe on site for the line pull, and to install and remove the trench cage, and to tamp. And you'll need a tandem there to take away the spoil and return with the correct backfill.

Although I agree that a small backhoe is needed (for caging and backfill), a hydrovac is the still most efficient means of excavating the area. The hydrovac will also "suck" up any refuse material so there will be no need for a dumptruck to remove the excess. As for backfill, most hydro'd holes are simply filled in with pea-sized gravel since it's self-compacting.

OP, sorry to hear about your luck. Since it is a deficiency from the developer's contractor initially, this is potentially something you may be able to recover (some) costs from the Alberta New Home Warranty program. As for price, yes, this sort of work will cost between $5k-$10k. Trust me, I price this kind of stuff out all the time. ;)

[Sugarphreak]

...

[Ven]

Originally posted by mo_money2supe


Although I agree that a small backhoe is needed (for caging and backfill), a hydrovac is the still most efficient means of excavating the area. The hydrovac will also "suck" up any refuse material so there will be no need for a dumptruck to remove the excess. As for backfill, most hydro'd holes are simply filled in with pea-sized gravel since it's self-compacting.



Unless there's a ton of utility crossing there shouldn't be a hydrovac at all, but who knows with this job right? It would otherwise make no sense to hire a hydrovac, a tandem, and a hoe. When the hoe can excavate quickly and it's already there. As for speed, unless you're sucking sand, a hoe can keep close pace with a hydrovac for this kind of work, and easily surpass it if there's a lot of pit run. Pea gravel and wash is not backfill, it's for bedding and drainage. You'll still need backfill and compaction. I'm sorry for the OP's troubles, I deal with this everyday and hope he's got a reputable company. Too many companies find ways price gouge, like billing for too much unneeded equipment on site.

[Ven]

double tap

[Masked Bandit]

Originally posted by ipeefreely
Thanks for the reply Masked Bandit! :)

Do you know why there is no appetite for insurance companies to have a product to cover this?

Seems like pretty easy money (odds of it happening) and with maybe a 3$ or lower fee per month people would pay just incase... :dunno: I think I would...



I really don't have an answer for you. I don't venture too far into that end of the business. One theory I could offer is that insurance companies underwrite potential losses based on the risk of something happening. It's possible that they (the actuaries that study this stuff) can't come up with any kind of reliable models that indicate when something is likely to go wrong. Because of the uncertainty they just stay away from it all together.

I might just be talkin' out my ass too, it is the middle of the night and I can't sleep so anything is possible.

:D

The real answer is that I simply don't know why the insurance companies don't go after this.

[Masked Bandit]

Originally posted by Ven
double tap

Rule 4: Doubletap: Carrying a gun is a great idea but it should never be your primary weapon. When you do end up using it for that last minute 'oh shit' moment remember to double tap. Its an emergency and thats why your using it and not your cricket bat so why skimp? One bullet more in the head will go a long way to ensuring your survival.

Always double tap!

[Sugarphreak]

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[BMDUBS]

So what was the total quote you agreed upon if you dont mind me asking? Are they just repairing the break or replacing the whole line into the basement?

[Sugarphreak]

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[Sugarphreak]

...

[revelations]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
The city has a responsibility to ensure that proper materials which meet city regulations and the Alberta building code are being used, and unlike home inspectors if they let things slip they can be held liable.

This sounds like a many year-long proceeding - but you probably have a good case.

[DEATH2000]

Sugarphreak, how long were you without running water?

[Sugarphreak]

....

[DustanS]

.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[Ntense_SpecV]

What I can't understand is why insurance won't cover any of this. This isn't something that can be inspected during a home inspection, the code phased it out (obviously due to failure rate), it wasn't something that you could have prevented. I know you are grateful to have running water again, god knows I sure couldn't live without running water, but you really are the scape-goat this time. Everyone can claim ignorance and you are left holding the bag.:(

[darthVWader]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak




also they replaced the copper pipe right up to the city valve



Did you grab the copper pipe? $$$$

[codetrap]

Originally posted by Ntense_SpecV
What I can't understand is why insurance won't cover any of this. This isn't something that can be inspected during a home inspection, the code phased it out (obviously due to failure rate), it wasn't something that you could have prevented. I know you are grateful to have running water again, god knows I sure couldn't live without running water, but you really are the scape-goat this time. Everyone can claim ignorance and you are left holding the bag.:( Isn't this sort of thing what title insurance is for?

[Masked Bandit]

Originally posted by Ntense_SpecV
What I can't understand is why insurance won't cover any of this. This isn't something that can be inspected during a home inspection, the code phased it out (obviously due to failure rate), it wasn't something that you could have prevented. I know you are grateful to have running water again, god knows I sure couldn't live without running water, but you really are the scape-goat this time. Everyone can claim ignorance and you are left holding the bag.:(

When it comes right down to it, the watermain is just another piece of plumbing. Yes it's outside and yes it's bigger than the rest of the water lines in your house but it's just plumbing. None of the rest of the plumbing in the house is insured so why would this be? If a water line in the wall busts open it's only all the resulting water damage that is insured. The cost to repair the actual leak isn't part of the claim. I had a water line in my basement let go a couple of years ago and the cost to fix the leak plus my deductible were my cost, insurance paid to repair all the resulting damage (drywall, flooring, etc.).

[Ntense_SpecV]

Originally posted by Masked Bandit


When it comes right down to it, the watermain is just another piece of plumbing. Yes it's outside and yes it's bigger than the rest of the water lines in your house but it's just plumbing. None of the rest of the plumbing in the house is insured so why would this be? If a water line in the wall busts open it's only all the resulting water damage that is insured. The cost to repair the actual leak isn't part of the claim. I had a water line in my basement let go a couple of years ago and the cost to fix the leak plus my deductible were my cost, insurance paid to repair all the resulting damage (drywall, flooring, etc.).

I guess in my own mind it comes down to scale of cost. So what will insurance cover in this case? Sod/landscaping repair?

[Masked Bandit]

Originally posted by Ntense_SpecV


I guess in my own mind it comes down to scale of cost. So what will insurance cover in this case? Sod/landscaping repair?

As with any busted pipe, all resulting damage is repaired / placed. TBH I don't know if that means redoing the sod or just replacing the dirt. I've never had a client go through this so I can't say for sure.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[roopi]

Shit that doesn't look like a good situation. Is the repair covered under warranty if it is the same line?

[Sugarphreak]

...

[roopi]

Good news about the warranty at least. So do you have running water still?